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[Peppy]

So it means "like"... แบบว่า.... ( คิดถึงอ่ะ )--"like, I miss you".Like, you know, teen-speak. (But us grown-ups can, like, use it too.   )

[kokesaat]

Can someone help me with this sentence:
ชายหนุ่มเมื่อออกจากบ้านไปแล้วก็พยายามไปรับจ้างทำงานในต่างจังหวัดอย่างขยันขันแข็งหนักเอาเบาสู้

I suspect the หนักเอาเบาสู้ is an idiom, but I can't find a translation anywhere on the internet.  หนัก -heavy, เอา -take, เบา light, สู้ - to fight
My guess:  When the young man left home, he tried to work diligently in various provinces, fighting to get any job he could get.

Can anyone offer up a better translation?

[DavidHouston]

From "คำคล้องจอง, เสน่ห์ของภาษาไทย" comes the following:

"หนักเอาเบาสู้  ว. (สำ) ขยันเอาการเอางานทุกชนิด".   This seems to mean, "he tries very hard and is willing to take any work he can get"  or, perhaps, it means "he is such a workaholic that he will take on all the work he is given."

What do you think?   I like your sentence structure very much.  Alternatively, however, you might consider,

ชายหนุ่มเมื่อออกจากบ้านไปแล้วก็พยายามไปรับจ้างทำงานในต่างจังหวัดอย่างขยันขันแข็งหนักเอาเบาสู้

When a young man finally leaves home, he will try to find a job working out in the rural areas and will diligently try to find any job he can get.

I do wonder what a native speaker takes from the subject sentence.  Thanks for raising this question.

[Peppy]

I think the interpretation of หนักเอาเบาสู้ as "willing to take any job one can get" and the variations on that above capture the meaning just fine.

Literally, I think it's something like, "willing to take on hard jobs, and fight for light ones". The idiomatic English translations work better, though; literal translations of idioms rarely do justice to meaning, and sound odd besides.

[kokesaat]

หนักเอาเบาสู้

Thanks, David and Peppy!

[klons]

kokesaat, on 2010-06-30 21:15:17, said:

Can someone help me with this sentence:
ชายหนุ่มเมื่อออกจากบ้านไปแล้วก็พยายามไปรับจ้างทำงานในต่างจังหวัดอย่างขยันขันแข็งหนักเอาเบาสู้

I suspect the หนักเอาเบาสู้ is an idiom, but I can't find a translation anywhere on the internet.  หนัก -heavy, เอา -take, เบา light, สู้ - to fight
My guess:  When the young man left home, he tried to work diligently in various provinces, fighting to get any job he could get.

Can anyone offer up a better translation?

หนักเอาเบาสู้  is in Beckers Speak Like a Thai Vol.3
They say it means - Hard Working
literal: Heavy can take, light can fight.

To go with that is:
หนักไม่เอาเบาไม่สู้ - meaning - Lazy

[bannork]

I was talking to a Thai friend about a farang in our village who has married a lady who can only be described as somewhat dting dtong, not all there, somewhat loopy. And yet he's intelligent, well off with a good pension, he could have done far better in my view. ไก่ได้พลอย he said .The chicken gets the jewel but he prefers to eat grain, he doesn't know the value of the jewel, in fact he could bribe his way to freedom with it!
Used for people who make inferior choices.

[katana]

ไก่ได้พลอย That's an interesting one, worth remembering!
Came across a bit more here.

[bannork]

katana, on 2010-07-11 14:26:10, said:

ไก่ได้พลอย That's an interesting one, worth remembering!
Came across a bit more here.

I thought at the time my friend was discussing this  phrase that the chicken was right to ignore the jewel for it has no value for it compared to rice, and Aesop seems to be pointing out that different things have different values for different folks but my friend says in Thai it means to make inferior or poor choices.
I saw another phrase the other day, the writer was talking about Hun Sen sending back the 2 redshirt bomb suspects and he wondered if Hun Sen had a ลับลมคมใน a hidden agenda.

Edited by bannork, 2010-07-12 16:39:58.

[charlie10]

Here's one from the volume 2 of excellent Speak Thai book and DVD series:

Wan pra my mee hin deeo (sorry can't show the tones):
Buddist holy days no have time single
Meaning: Buddist holy days don't occur only once: This is akin to our english saying 'Every dog has his day'.

What's nice about this saying is that it reflects the keen interest in the waxing and waning of the moon here in Isaan. Our Yai will go to the wat on these days, and quite often there is associated activity related to these holy days, such as the need to light candles to honour the budda images on the buddha shelf, or to wash the images. Giving akms to the monks on these days is also pretty important.

As the Speak Thai book explains the wan pra holy days fall on the 8th and 15th waxing moon days and the 8th and 15th waning day moons. If you look at the Thai calandar the phase of a moons waxing and waning is clearly indicated, as is the when the holy days fall. Fascinating stuff!

[DavidHouston]

Thanks, Charlie10, I have never seen that before.  

From "๒,๐๐๐ สำนวนไทย"

วันพระไม่มีหนเดียว = วันหน้ายังมีโอกาสอีก

wan prá mâi mee hŏn dieow

How about, "Tomorrow is another day"?

Edited by DavidHouston, 2010-07-14 18:30:05.

[kokesaat]

From today's Bangkok Pundit (asiancorrespondent.com) comes this interesting phrase:
Right now if you go to the Department of Special Investigation website, the lead item in a red and bolded font is the word "Wanted!!!" ("ประกาศจับ" !!!). Linked is a four page PDF with 12 photos of the wanted individual and their details. Next to the photos is the term "นรกจะกินหัว" which literally means "hel_l will eat your head" or in more normal English "rot in hel_l". The arrest warrant has been issued for lese majeste and computer crimes.....

[klons]

Drink water see leech.

  The saying below I copied along with the explanation from a book. The English translation is mine as the book didn’t have one. My translation is not
very good because I don’t understand what it means. Can anyone else explain it?
A fly in the ointment? But why would we want something repulsive in the first place?

กินนำ้เห็นปลิง

drink water see leech

แปลว่า   สิ่งใดที่เราต้องการ ถ้าสิ่งนั้นสิ่งที่น่ารังเกียจ

meaning: anything we want, when these things are repulsive

หรือไมบริสุทธิ์  ก็ทำให้รังเกียจหรือตะขิดตะขวงใจไม่อยากได้  เปรียบ

or not pure,  it causes repulsive embarrass that’s not wanted, Similar to

ดังที่ว่าปลิงเป็นสัตว์น่ารังเกียจอยู่ในนำ้  เวลากินนำ้มองเห็นปลิงเข้า

a disgusting leech in the water,  when you drink the water you see the leech in it.

ก็รู้สึกรังเกียจและขยะแขยงไม่อยากกิน  สำนวนนี้ไม่สู้จะมีใครนำ

then feel disgust and repulsion don’t want to drink, saying does not go against
anyone bringing  

มาใช้กันนัก แต่เมื่อไม่นานมานี้มีนักเขียนเอามาตั้งเป็นชื่อหนังสือ เล่มหนึ่ง

use together important, but when not long time comes have writer bring this book



My vocabulary list.

น่ารังเกียจ  [ADJ] disgusting; hateful  [V] be disgusting; be hateful; be repulsive

ตะขิดตะขวง  [V] embarrass; hesitate; be reluctant; be bashful; shy; be shamed

ดังที่  [CONJ] as; according to; as if

ขยะแขยง   [V]  to feel disgusted; to feel repugnant; to feel repulsive; to revolt at the sight of something

[bannork]

Klons,
I guess this idiom means to be 'put off' in English, you stop liking something you normally like due to some unpleasant factor, but the Thai you posted says if something we want is not pure or is indeed distasteful, repulsive in some way, then we'll hesitate and won't want it- well, that seems self evident to me, which is why I wonder if it means we previously liked something and then were put off.
The Thai writer says not many used this idiom, but not long ago a writer called a book of his by this idiom.
This idiom is in most Thai dictionaries however.
A fly in the ointment just means something annoying, a drawback that spoils something.

[bifftastic]

charlie10, on 2010-07-14 14:55:29, said:

Here's one from the volume 2 of excellent Speak Thai book and DVD series:

Wan pra my mee hin deeo (sorry can't show the tones):
Buddist holy days no have time single
Meaning: Buddist holy days don't occur only once: This is akin to our english saying 'Every dog has his day'.

What's nice about this saying is that it reflects the keen interest in the waxing and waning of the moon here in Isaan. Our Yai will go to the wat on these days, and quite often there is associated activity related to these holy days, such as the need to light candles to honour the budda images on the buddha shelf, or to wash the images. Giving akms to the monks on these days is also pretty important.

As the Speak Thai book explains the wan pra holy days fall on the 8th and 15th waxing moon days and the 8th and 15th waning day moons. If you look at the Thai calandar the phase of a moons waxing and waning is clearly indicated, as is the when the holy days fall. Fascinating stuff!

Could it not also mean something like 'holy days are not only on that single occasion'? ie; don't just treat the holy days as holy but be mindful of them every day? or, every day is a holy day?
Every dog has his day, to me, means even someone who is treated like a dog will, one day, have the tables turned

Wan Pra mai mee hun dieow Day (for) Buddha (do) not have occasion single?

[RickBradford]

From last night's hysterical foot-stamping soapie action: ฝากไว้ก่อนเถอะ !

Meaning is along the lines of "I'll get you next time, just you wait, this isn't over" etc etc

[bannork]

A couple of phrases I've seen in the last few days,ได้เเต่มองตาปริบ ๆ to look on helplessly (perhaps with envy)
เเถลงเป็นตุเป็นตะ to speak as if something is true when it has not been verified.

[Gai]

This is my favourite thai proverb:

ดูช้างให้ดูหาง  ดูนางให้ดูแม่

Like mother, like daughter.

literally:

look-elefant-look at-tail
look-woman-look at-mother

ps: นาง =nang is a married woman=Mrs and  น.ส. =nang saw is a Miss
but in Thailand you can never be sure if a Miss is really a Miss......

[Peppy]

Gai, on 2010-08-12 11:55:59, said:

ดูช้างให้ดูหาง  ดูนางให้ดูแม่

Like mother, like daughter.

I'm not sure if that's the best translation. I've always understood it as being advice for would-be husbands: "If you want to know what an elephant's like, look at its tail; If you want to know what a woman's like, look at her mother." Of course, the principle of "Like mother, like daughter" is assumed.


To actually say "Like mother, like daughter", or "Like father, like son", ลูกตกไม่ไกลต้น luuk dtok mai glai dton is a better choice. It literally means "The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree", and is a direct equivalent to the English sayings "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree" and "Like a chip off the old block".

Oh, and can you actually check the condition and/or temperament of an elephant by looking at its tail?  

[Gai]

Peppy, on 2010-08-12 14:38:34, said:

Gai, on 2010-08-12 11:55:59, said:

ดูช้างให้ดูหาง  ดูนางให้ดูแม่

Like mother, like daughter.

I'm not sure if that's the best translation. I've always understood it as being advice for would-be husbands: "If you want to know what an elephant's like, look at its tail; If you want to know what a woman's like, look at her mother." Of course, the principle of "Like mother, like daughter" is assumed.


To actually say "Like mother, like daughter", or "Like father, like son", ลูกตกไม่ไกลต้น luuk dtok mai glai dton is a better choice. It literally means "The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree", and is a direct equivalent to the English sayings "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree" and "Like a chip off the old block".

Oh, and can you actually check the condition and/or temperament of an elephant by looking at its tail?  

That's a good question.

Maybe better:   ...........ดูหางดูหน้าด้วยนะจ๊ะ.............(look at its tail and also its face)

[tod-daniels]

bifftastic, on 2010-07-23 05:41:52, said:

charlie10, on 2010-07-14 14:55:29, said:

Here's one from the volume 2 of excellent Speak Thai book and DVD series:

Wan pra my mee hin deeo (sorry can't show the tones):
Buddist holy days no have time single
Meaning: Buddist holy days don't occur only once: This is akin to our english saying 'Every dog has his day'.

<SNIPPED>

Could it not also mean something like 'holy days are not only on that single occasion'? ie; don't just treat the holy days as holy but be mindful of them every day? or, every day is a holy day?
Every dog has his day, to me, means even someone who is treated like a dog will, one day, have the tables turned

Wan Pra mai mee hun dieow Day (for) Buddha (do) not have occasion single?

I've heard the idiom วันพระไม่มีหนเดียว many times in my travels thru-out the glorious "Land 'O Thais".  Especially in conversations with older or what I call; 'career monx'   , when the conversation veers into territory concerning the state of the thais today.  

It is much less prevalent with the young guys who I call 'wanna-b-monx', or 'poser-monx'   .  You know the kind, they're the ones whose family makes a HUGE deal out of their son becoming a monk for a coupla weeks/months (only to have him 'wash out and sneaks back home in the middle of the nite).

I think the meaning of this idiom is far closer to the poster known as 'bifftastic' than what 'charlie10' is alluding too. I also believe the site thai-language has the meaning wrong as well, saying it means ‘tomorrow is another day’, but that's just my opinion based on how I've interpreted it in conversations with older thaiz.    

I'm not to say that the up-country thais don't pay attention to the moon or go to the temple often. It is my experience that most everyone goes at least twice a month (at least to get the 'winning' lottery numbers from a monk   .)

I just think that in this instance; I took this saying to mean, (and yes I am adding context to the very ambiguous 5 word idiom): "Just because it's NOT a buddhist holiday, doesn't mean you can forget the precepts all good buddhists should follow in their lives."  

It's similar to the derogatory idiom in the US; 'a Christmas/Easter Christian', or someone who is religious on religious holidays and when it's not a holiday their beliefs take a back seat in their lives. Like saying;  'Don't just be a Christmas/Easter Christian. ..."

Like I said, I could be wrong, and I'm sure an email to Benjawan Becker would probably shed more light on it; as she has a fantastic support staff.

Still for the most part I've found idioms all over the world which mean nearly the same thing no matter the language of origin.  I think they are all somehow 'interlinked' in the human psyche based on experiences every human goes thru; and similar to things like the 'great flood myth', etc.

Good thread though, quite interesting. ..

[sarahsbloke]

did we have "Naa nuwer jai Sewer" หน้า เนื้อ ใจ เสื่อ, my personal favourite
Beautiful body, heart of Tiger (Beautiful but merciless)
Used to warn young Thai men about women who squeeze a house and car out of them and then dump them, on the wall at my local wat.
I alway think it's funny that certain Thai ladies have been playing this same game for centuries, it doesn't just happen to foreigners.

[bifftastic]

sarahsbloke, on 2010-08-14 15:15:44, said:

did we have "Naa nuwer jai Sewer" หน้า เนื้อ ใจ เสื่อ, my personal favourite
Beautiful body, heart of Tiger (Beautiful but merciless)
Used to warn young Thai men about women who squeeze a house and car out of them and then dump them, on the wall at my local wat.
I alway think it's funny that certain Thai ladies have been playing this same game for centuries, it doesn't just happen to foreigners.

on Thai2English I got  หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ literally translated (by Thai2English) as naa (face/front/top) neua (flesh/body) jai (heart/spirit/mind) seua (tiger) with 'wolf in sheeps clothing' as the meaning. Not sure I understand the 'naa neua' part, rhymes nicely of course, but i don't understand the use of the words, the sentiment, as sarahsbloke points out, is universal


p.s. I disregarded the 'meat/beef' option for the word เนื้อ

[tod-daniels]

bifftastic, on 2010-08-16 05:50:50, said:

sarahsbloke, on 2010-08-14 15:15:44, said:

did we have "Naa nuwer jai Sewer" หน้า เนื้อ ใจ เสื่อ, my personal favourite
Beautiful body, heart of Tiger (Beautiful but merciless)
Used to warn young Thai men about women who squeeze a house and car out of them and then dump them, on the wall at my local wat.
I alway think it's funny that certain Thai ladies have been playing this same game for centuries, it doesn't just happen to foreigners.

on Thai2English I got  หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ literally translated (by Thai2English) as naa (face/front/top) neua (flesh/body) jai (heart/spirit/mind) seua (tiger) with 'wolf in sheeps clothing' as the meaning. Not sure I understand the 'naa neua' part, rhymes nicely of course, but i don't understand the use of the words, the sentiment, as sarahsbloke points out, is universal


p.s. I disregarded the 'meat/beef' option for the word เนื้อ

I didn't know for quite a while that the term หน้าเนื้อ is a 'compound word/phrase', which doesn't carry the meaning of either of its component words but has a different meaning entirely.  (This is not actually all that uncommon in thai word compounds as there are many words you can't break down and glean the real meaning in thai by its base components. )  

Yes it is composed of the word หน้า; face, front, going forward, etc, and เนื้อ; meat, contents, flesh, song lyrics, etc, BUT when used together they carry the meaning of "hospitable- and generous-looking (like a timid deer)".  I think that is because the RID lists หน้าเนื้อ as ชื่อสัตว์ป่าประเภทกวาง อีเก้ง เป็นต้น; the name of a wild animal of the type deer; the barking deer (muntjac) for example.  

Hence the term หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ is roughly "face like a timid deer; heart like a tiger".  In engrish it could be called like thai-language lists it: "full of courtesy, full of craft", or as thai-2-engrish lists it as "a wolf in sheep's clothing". Both fit the meant meaning of the idiom. I also believe หน้าเนื้อ could be along the same idiom in the US “doe-eyed”, or a “big eyed, beautiful girl”.

Still any way you interpret it, it’s a good idiom and one which EVERY thai knows the meaning of.  It’s even in a famous song done by the two thai superstars, เบิรต์ ธงไชย(Bird Thongchai) and เสก โลโซ (Sek Loso) called  อมพระมาพูด (Even if you sucked on a buddha amulet when you speak, I couldn’t believe you)

FWIW: Here’s the song;

This song actually has some fairly accurate engrish subtitles too, so hats off to the translator (which wasn’t me!!).  Notice how they chose the idiom “wolf in sheep’s clothing” as the engrish idiom for หน้าเนื้อใจเสือ .  Also listen at the end when they repeat the words อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ because they also throw in อมวัดมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ (even if you sucked on an entire wat when you spoke I couldn't believe you).

FWIW: อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ has become another famous thai idiom meaning a person who is totally unbelievable.  

And here’re the thai lyrics;  

อมพระมาพูด - เสก โลโซ - เบิรต์ ธงไชย

เธอเดินมาหาทำหน้าเศร้า
เธอบอกว่าเราไปกันไม่ได้
เธอบอกว่าฉันดีเกินไป สำหรับเธอ

คำพูดเธอนั้นมันง่ายดี
ยังโน้นยังนี้ทำหน้าตา
ทำเหมือนว่าฉันเป็นผักปลาไม่ใช่คน

แสร้งทำเป็นดี
บอกไม่มี ไม่มีใครใหม่
อยากจะพักหัวใจ
ไม่อยากมีใครมาพัวพัน

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ
ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้
อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้
ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน
เคยนับบ้างไหม

ถึงแม้ว่าฉันยังรักอยู่
ใครใครก็รู้ก็ดูออก
แต่จะไม่ยอมให้เธอหลอกอีกต่อไป
พรุ่งนี้จะขอไปให้ไกล
ไม่อยากเจอใครที่ใจดำ
จะไม่เชื่อคนที่น้ำคำจำใส่ใจ

แสร้งทำเป็นดี
บอกไม่มี ไม่มีใครใหม่
อยากจะพักหัวใจ
ไม่อยากมีใครมาพัวพัน

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ
ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้
อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้
ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน
เคยนับบ้างไหม

แสร้งทำเป็นดี
บอกไม่มีไม่มีใครใหม่
อยากจะพักหัวใจ
ไม่อยากมีใครมาพัวพัน

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ
ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้
อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้
ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน
เคยนับบ้างไหม

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าเนื้อใจเสืออย่างเธอ
ใครเตือนไม่ฟังว่าอย่าเผลอมีใจให้
อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
หน้าใสใจเสือเชื่อไม่ได้
ประวัติโชกโชนเชือดใจมากี่คน
เคยนับบ้างไหม
เคยนับบ้างไหม

อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
อมวัดมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ
ไม่เชื่อ ไม่เชื่อ ไม่เชื่อ ไม่เชื่อ  

Enjoy  

[bifftastic]

Thanks tod very helpful and informative
I'll try and remember อมพระมาพูดก็ไม่เชื่อ

Could be useful if I ever see any British politicians on Thai TV

Edited by bifftastic, 2010-08-17 19:36:41.