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webfact

627 Bangkok Communities Under Water

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In similar flooding situations I have witnessed in the US, it is not unusual, it is in fact common for the government to call up National Guard forces to aid in construction, rescue, evacuation, sheltering efforts. Only the military has the cross regional organization, equipment, manpower and bases of operation to offer any really coordinated assistance to those millions affected by these floods.

I would not compare the US Army and the Thai Army the same day. I think the US Army has some training and most of the officers have some common sense.

:(:unsure::blink:

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I just came back from silom, a little more water around saphan taksin pier, but silom not a drop. Didn't see bkbank constructing the 2 meter high wall someone tweeted about.

Btw, foodland patpong soi 2 has lots of canned fish etc that tops I went to yesterday @ charoenkrung robinsons didn't.

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So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

Now why would you think that they would be on the same page??? That's ridiculous: PT is in charge, but the Dem. governor wants his party to gain face so he sits on the fence uncommitted, and (of course) the military want to be in charge again with their puppet PM...

I guess you wouldn't know sarcasm if it slapped you in the face?

Yes, PT is in charge and making an incredible mess of things. Science minister screams "EVACUATE", Justice Minister says "Ignore that moron", and PM goes off to cry. Yeah, PT really inspires confidence in their handling of this crisis... NOT!

I'm glad to know that the authorities in Bangkok are not relying on PT to protect the city.

Thai Military is already doing a lot to evacuate people, distribute aid and fortify and protect flood barriers. They could do more, but PM refuses to declare a state of emergency.

Shocking incompetence and zero accountability.

TiT :jap:

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Nervous Bangkok on alert for floods

by Janesara Fugal

BANGKOK, October 15, 2011 (AFP) - Thailand fought to hold back floodwaters flowing towards Bangkok Saturday as a spring tide hindered efforts to protect the city of 12 million people from the kingdom's worst inundation in decades.

The authorities appeared to be winning the battle, with no reports of major flooding in inner Bangkok, which is ringed by flood walls, leaving areas outside the main city to bear the brunt of the rising waters.

"We must try to protect our economic zone including Bangkok, Suvarnabhumi Airport, industrial areas and evacuation centres," said Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

Sandbags have been piled alongside rivers and canals and the authorities have been racing to repair a dyke that burst on Thursday, causing a brief scare in suburbs in the north of the capital.

The floods, several metres deep in places, are currently affecting about one third of Thailand's provinces and have damaged the homes or livelihoods of millions of people and left at least 297 people dead.

About 110,000 people around the country have sought refuge in shelters in the face of waters that have destroyed crops and inundated hundreds of factories in industrial parks north of Bangkok.

"People have been affected by floods for three months now. The government understands that and is trying to drain the water as soon as possible," Yingluck said.

"This incident is one of Thailand's biggest and most severe losses in history. The government will not forget the people's grievances."

She said foreign governments including China, Japan and the United States were giving financial or logistical support for the relief operations.

Conditions in inner Bangkok and at most of Thailand's top tourist destinations are mostly normal and Suvarnabhumi Airport -- the capital's main international gateway, which has flood walls several metres high -- is operating as usual.

This weekend Bangkok is bracing for a large amount of run-off water along with seasonal high tides that will make it harder for the flood waters to flow out to sea.

"We predict the water will be highest from October 16-18 as the high sea level combines with water from the north which will arrive in Bangkok tomorrow (Sunday)," said Worapat Tianprasit at the Royal Irrigation Department.

He said the water in the Chao Phraya River had risen to 2.27 metres above sea level on Saturday morning at high tide, which was lower than expected.

"If the tide does not exceed 2.5 metres, there won't be flooding," Worapat added.

Overnight thunderstorms caused some minor flooding on roads in the centre of the capital, but the authorities have said they are confident they can prevent serious inundation in the low-lying city.

"Bangkok will definitely not be affected by floods," Justice Minister Pracha Promnog, who heads the government's flood relief centre, said Friday.

Sandbags have been piled in front of homes and businesses in preparation for possible inundation, and some residents have chosen to their vehicles in multi-storey carparks while stocking up on food, water and flashlights.

The authorities have been dredging and draining canals to allow more water to flow through and are diverting water to areas outside the main city.

The floods have dealt a heavy blow to Thailand's economy, disrupting production of cars, electronics and other goods.

Japanese automakers including Toyota have suspended production in the kingdom due to water damage to facilities or a shortage of components.

Three workers at a flood-hit factory north of the capital suffered minor injuries that were believed to be caused by a short circuit.

afplogo.jpg

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-10-15

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It's all about face. No emergency will be declared.

Crazy, they should keep people from breaking down sandbag barriers. That is an army job.

The problem is who decides where to build the sandbag barriers?

Personally I would have thought that it would be better to position them so that water was directed to places where it could cause least damage and run off towards lower ground as soon as possible rather than trying to contain it. Better to flood an large area with 50cm of water than a much smaller area with 1 meter of water?

Just my thoughts

jb1

I do agree with that there has to be thought about where they should be placed. However a small area with 1 meter is better as a big area with 50 cm. 50 cm does a lot of damage already. Not much difference between a meter and 50 cm damage wise.

Anyway im glad we are still dry here and i hope they make sure nobody will break down barriers up stream of us that will flood me.

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How can Baht remain the same when up to half the country's industry is shut down for one reason or another, and costs are starting to soar for the more of basic items, FOOD.

For the same reason the pound didn't plunge when the hoodies ran the streets of British cities for a week or so; as far as the markets are concerned, it's a temporary situation. Besides, a shut down for a week or two is hardly justification for the currency of any debt-ridden country to rally against that of an emerging market that actually produces and exports stuff.

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May be you never been under flooding.... I was and 50 cm and 1 meter are very very different......Under 1 meter all electrycity can give problem.... till 50 usually not problem of this kind...But hope you never have to experienced....

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Military wants PM to declare state of emergency in capital

The Nation

The move came after angry residents, particularly in Pathum Thani, which is immediately upriver from Bangkok, destroyed walls of sandbags built to protect important areas.

Seriously, what's the military going to do with a state of emergency: use snipers to murder any residents who try to destroy embankments?

I don't know and I really hope not, but anyone who destroys the walls to increase the flood on purpose, should be pointed as an enemy of the state! <_<

Amazing humanity... :blink:

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I do wonder why the army isn't just helping, but i think they are not allowed.

I don't know how broad the military's involvement is.... but they're clearly already involved..... How much good they're doing, that's another question.

It was the Army that was in charge of the efforts to keep the flood waters out of a couple of high profile Ayutthaya industrial estates...which ultimately failed...

And I believe they're responsible for some of the supposed canal dredging that's supposed to be going on...as well as some helicopter relief work and supply ferrying...

Whether they have the ability/orders to protect flood dykes from being dismantled by civilians, that's a question I haven't seen asked or answered.

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Soldiers are 'on the payroll'....get them to do anything that is needed....guarding, filling up sandbags, etc...

Simple solution to 'sandbag shortage':

get some heavy machinery to ANY vacant land

dig big holes

you have sand

you have holes to fill with water

Is anything wrong with this idea? I would think in such an emergency, the army, especially should be working around the clock, example, digging holes like there is no tomorrow, filling sand bags and creating holes/trenches to redirect some of the flood water into....

This is out of control, obviously...and no one in charge is doing anything effective or anything that would involve structured, accountable expenditure

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I don't know and I really hope not, but anyone who destroys the walls to increase the flood on purpose, should be pointed as an enemy of the state! <_<

Amazing humanity... :blink:

There's a big dilemma - when your community is under 1 meter or more of water while the community next door is dry because of flood barriers, it leads to tensions and some justifiable concerns. This is clearly illustrated on Highway 345 in Pathum Thani where two communities are at a standoff and local officials have been unable to resolve the issue.

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Is there a thread where Bangkokians can tell us about areas actually underwater. Many reports about communities underwater but then other reports contradicting it. Has Bangkok avoided a bullet or are we still at risk?

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As usual, the useless Nation article doesn't give any explanation of HOW declaring a state of emergency would help improve the flood protection efforts for BKK...

What exactly would such a declaration allow the Army to do that they can't already do now? They pretty much do what they want, when they want, all the time already....

Funny though.... someone else asked this question here the other day and I never saw any answer... Where are the BIB through all this???

They do seem to have been pretty conspicuously quiet and absent... Busy rushing to relocate all the casinos to upper floors???

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May be you never been under flooding.... I was and 50 cm and 1 meter are very very different......Under 1 meter all electrycity can give problem.... till 50 usually not problem of this kind...But hope you never have to experienced....

Exactly my thoughts 50cm is knee deep at that depth most homes and cars can be saved. But 1mtr is waste deep at this depth most single story suffering very serious damage and many vehicles destroyed.

jb1

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I don't know and I really hope not, but anyone who destroys the walls to increase the flood on purpose, should be pointed as an enemy of the state! <_<

Amazing humanity... :blink:

There's a big dilemma - when your community is under 1 meter or more of water while the community next door is dry because of flood barriers, it leads to tensions and some justifiable concerns. This is clearly illustrated on Highway 345 in Pathum Thani where two communities are at a standoff and local officials have been unable to resolve the issue.

Got any news about that situation and the stand off im curious. ALso because its close to here and could lead to more flooding over here in Bang Yai(nonthaburi)

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...

I don't know and I really hope not, but anyone who destroys the walls to increase the flood on purpose, should be pointed as an enemy of the state! <_<

Amazing humanity... :blink:

Sandbag walls which protect important areas channel the floods and retain the floods in areas which are less important - to influential people, at least. I am sure the people that live in "less important" areas are not happy about their homes being used as emergency reservoirs...

The phrase "enemy of the state" sounds so 1984; do you mean an enemy of the state like George Washington was?

SC

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I do wonder why the army isn't just helping, but i think they are not allowed.

I don't know how broad the military's involvement is.... but they're clearly already involved..... How much good they're doing, that's another question.

It was the Army that was in charge of the efforts to keep the flood waters out of a couple of high profile Ayutthaya industrial estates...which ultimately failed...

And I believe they're responsible for some of the supposed canal dredging that's supposed to be going on...as well as some helicopter relief work and supply ferrying...

Whether they have the ability/orders to protect flood dykes from being dismantled by civilians, that's a question I haven't seen asked or answered.

This issue is discussed in a Bangkok Post article published earlier today. Not allowed to link it to this forum :rolleyes:

The Military could do more if the government would declare a state of emergency.

The government has known about the impending floods for MONTHS but only ordered the dredging of Bangkok canals yesterday.

Ironic isn't it that during the last campaign Thaksin’s party criticized the Democrats for their tardy response to flooding. This year the shoe is on the other foot, with Thaksin's clone Yingluck facing criticism that her government failed to act fast enough to the flood crisis.

Shocking incompetence!

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So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

Welcome to the land of miracle smiles.

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I do wonder why the army isn't just helping, but i think they are not allowed.

I don't know how broad the military's involvement is.... but they're clearly already involved..... How much good they're doing, that's another question.

It was the Army that was in charge of the efforts to keep the flood waters out of a couple of high profile Ayutthaya industrial estates...which ultimately failed...

And I believe they're responsible for some of the supposed canal dredging that's supposed to be going on...as well as some helicopter relief work and supply ferrying...

Whether they have the ability/orders to protect flood dykes from being dismantled by civilians, that's a question I haven't seen asked or answered.

This issue is discussed in a Bangkok Post article published earlier today. Not allowed to link it to this forum :rolleyes:

The Military could do more if the government would declare a state of emergency.

The government has known about the impending floods for MONTHS but only ordered the dredging of Bangkok canals yesterday.

Ironic isn't it that during the last campaign Thaksin's party criticized the Democrats for their tardy response to flooding. This year the shoe is on the other foot, with Thaksin's clone Yingluck facing criticism that her government failed to act fast enough to the flood crisis.

Shocking incompetence!

If it aint't broke don't fix it. This statement goes for all infrastructure in all areas of Thailand. Pattaya would not have been so bad, IF THE DRAINS HAD BEEN CLEANED OUT! IN Thailand foresight is doing nothing until something happens or you need it.

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It's all about face. No emergency will be declared.

Crazy, they should keep people from breaking down sandbag barriers. That is an army job.

A state of emergency would protect the military from recriminations should it use brute force against civilians who it deems pose a threat to their efforts. The military can presently detain anyone that threatens or damages the flood barriers, but a state of emergency suspends the detainees legal rights and gives the military absolute authority. The MOI has all of the authority needed under the current legislation. Perhaps, the military does not like taking direction from the civilians at the MOI. Considering the past inability of the military to differentiate been a measured response and indiscriminate firing upon civilians, it is prudent to go slow on the request. A state of emergency should be used only if Bangkok is flooded. With Bangkok's high density population and the likelihood of civil unrest and widespread pandemonium and looting, it would be justified then.

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So 3 different opinions it seems, pm says bkk will be safe, govenor not so sure and now the military calling for emergency measures.

Glad to see we are all on the same page.

In other news, tide is coming back in and river is rising as expected-looks similar to yesterday.

I didn't see 3 different opinions I see an extension of the same thinking but the military wants more power to protect and enforce and probably not a bad idea at this point with vindictive people damaging critical dykes..

Of course Bangkok is in danger if these vindictive scum bags keep intentionally damaging the dykes.

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Is there a collection of photos anywhere on the net of this in Bangkok? Anyone know if the Thongo Lo area, soi 36 and soi 38 are under water? thx

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Military wants PM to declare state of emergency in capital

The Nation

The move came after angry residents, particularly in Pathum Thani, which is immediately upriver from Bangkok, destroyed walls of sandbags built to protect important areas.

Seriously, what's the military going to do with a state of emergency: use snipers to murder any residents who try to destroy embankments?

I don't know and I really hope not, but anyone who destroys the walls to increase the flood on purpose, should be pointed as an enemy of the state! <_<

Amazing humanity... :blink:

Over the years, the state has made changes to the natural flow of water in order to flood = damage/destroy some people and help others. Now, they are doing it even more so, and the people who are losing, and may have lost everything, are in no mood to listen to someone on a pedestal telling hem why it is best to keep the hastily built flood walls up which destroy their homes and livelihoods.... for the good of the country?? They hardly believe it!

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Since taking office the current government has been pre-occupied more with amnesty for the puppet PM's fugitive big brother, transferring power to red shirt bureaucrats and reneging on campaign promises and PT completely failed to recognize the impending flood crisis until it was too late.

Only when the floods began to inundate several provinces in the Central Plains and threaten Bangkok did the government begin to treat the problem seriously by establishing a flood relief operation center at Don Mueng airport.

Justice Minister Pol Gen Pracha Phromnok is directing the center. Science and Technology Minister Plodprasop heads the relief operation. This is the same genius who came up with the laughable scheme to use boats to push water out of the Chao Phraya river... :blink:

And isn't it strange that the provincial governors, who are close to the people and well positioned to respond to their needs, work under Interior Ministry and yet Interior Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit do not have any role at the flood relief operation center?

Admitting the government was slow to respond, Mr Plodprasop told one TV program that: ''We came late, but better than not at all.''

Gee, thanks Plod, that makes me feel so much better... NOT!

So I read with some relief that Bangkok Governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra has recognized the incompetence of the national government and has decided to take matters into his own hands.

The sun is shining and inner Bangkok remains dry. So far so good, but we're not out of danger yet!

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