Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next Please log in to reply 71 replies to this topic

[thomas2969]

I am always ask my self why in thailand the builders  they use "Concrete Columns" and not "Superblock" only for building House ? What is the reason?


In my mind, building with concrete Columns it waste time and also money for workers.


Why they don´t use something like "Superblock only?



How you think?


Regards

Thomas

[BuckarooBanzai]

Was curious about what you were talking about - for the rest of you without a clue look here http://www.superblockusa.com/

Looks pretty interesting but where would you get it in Thailand?

[Carib]

Take a look at the site and pics; in between the super blocks , there are columns...

Blocks alone would never be as strong as columns with re bar inside, and would never be able to hold a structure.

[MJo]

They used these in scandinavia in the 80's. You can do even without columns and main benefit is that they can be easily shaped as to complex shapes. Although i suspect the the usa ones are most likely bit different thus need for the columns.

The catch is that they get dirty over time and look really bad. Also go and try to hang anything on the walls like kitchen cabinets etc and your in trouble.

What you could do is to use CHB filled with concrete and bit of rebar to remove the columns. There is CHB made for this purpose.

More popular in europe is about 300mm thick light gravel blocks with optional insulation layer in the middle. Very good for basement walls and you just pour concrete floor slab over and no need for columns. Will keep the cold or heat away but i doubt they are available in Thailand or if they are the price is not feasible.

[bigdod]

aha.....I'm kinda hoping that all the experts rush in on this one.... I'm just about to start doing my homework about what to do/what not to do about building a place here.....

[Kwasaki]

I don't know if they were superblocks used at the new shopping complex in Phitsanulok but they looked similar.
If superblock was available in Thailand you could use them on a ground floor level building but it would be still advisable to have them tied in to columns.

At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with using the Thai conventional way of building as long as it is carried out correctly, that's because it's usually the cheapest way of doing the build.  

Reinforced concrete columns are used at set distances in building for structural strength.
They take loads from roofing structures and extra floor areas and tie in walls and corners of buildings.

They can be in steel, ready formed beams, built up shuttered reinforced, or tied in brick columns.

If your building a house the reinforced ground foundation lay out and depth needs to be designed to suit the ground area and your columns set out and raised from it.

The question is how much dosh have you got, how much more could you afford if more was needed, e.g. my house was built in stages, wasn't expensive but it ended up costing me double what I thought, although I didn't mind.

If I was to do it again I would quantify all the costs from start to end everything down to the toothbrush holder.

Edited by Kwasaki, 2011-10-29 16:02:38.

[bigdod]

Kwasaki, on 2011-10-29 15:58:30, said:

If your building a house the reinforced ground foundation lay out and depth needs to be designed to suit the ground area and your columns set out and raised from it.

This is a subject I'm considering at the moment. I need to find someone that knows about all of this to tell me exactly what I can or need to do before I even put two sticks together..... and we all know how difficult it is trying to weed out the 'experts' from the people that actually know what they're talking about.....

[trogers]

  I remember a developer asked me back in 1996 whether it is possible to use load bearing block walls for the 2-storey detached houses of his proposed estate instead of the traditional reinforced concrete columns and beams. It would save much construction time, so it seems.

Not wanting to debate about availability of skilled tradesmen, I eagerly welcome his idea and also told him to ensure only one point with regards to coordinating the design - finalise all plumbing and electrical termination points. Load bearing walls cannot be hacked to conceal new pipes and conduits.

And the project employed the traditional beams and columns...

Edited by trogers, 2011-10-29 17:40:42.

[thomas2969]

Interesting, thanx for reply. Well, of course Superblock(and some other brand name also) they are available in Thailand for already long time. That´s why I am wondering why peoples still use Concrete Columns for build a house and still believe that such like superblock are not a loadbearing block. In Europe we also use this kind of block (also 2 storeys) but nothing broke.

Thai links:

http://www.superblockthailand.com/index1.html

http://www.qcon.co.th/profiles/company_pro.php

German link:

http://www.ytong-silka.de/de/img/Bargeteheide1.jpg



Regards

Thomas

Edited by thomas2969, 2011-10-29 17:45:45.

[Kwasaki]

bigdod, on 2011-10-29 17:00:57, said:

Kwasaki, on 2011-10-29 15:58:30, said:

If your building a house the reinforced ground foundation lay out and depth needs to be designed to suit the ground area and your columns set out and raised from it.

This is a subject I'm considering at the moment. I need to find someone that knows about all of this to tell me exactly what I can or need to do before I even put two sticks together..... and we all know how difficult it is trying to weed out the 'experts' from the people that actually know what they're talking about.....

It's nothing to worry about really the main points are :-
1.  Do you need to raise the ground level for obvious recent events.
2.  What is the ground if not known, is it :- clay, sandy, or is there an underground lake.
3.  Dig an hole and find out or get somebody to do it.
4.  Most reinforced foundations correctly installed can be as little as 50cm deep, going from 75cm and up according to the building structure.
5.  Electrical earthing requirements can be done at that level too if really wanted.
6.  Once you have got your sound base your good to go.

Edited by Kwasaki, 2011-10-29 18:01:12.

[T_Dog]

I think the main reason is that concrete without steel has a strength limit of about 3500 PSI without steel, and Superblocks start to indent or crumble at about 450 PSI. Superblocks are great insulators, but they have poor structural strength.   Try drilling a hole into one and placing an anchor some time.

[Langsuan Man]

T_Dog, on 2011-10-29 19:11:26, said:

I think the main reason is that concrete without steel has a strength limit of about 3500 PSI without steel, and Superblocks start to indent or crumble at about 450 PSI. Superblocks are great insulators, but they have poor structural strength.   Try drilling a hole into one and placing an anchor some time.

100% correct, finally

[Kwasaki]

T_Dog, on 2011-10-29 19:11:26, said:

I think the main reason is that concrete without steel has a strength limit of about 3500 PSI without steel, and Superblocks start to indent or crumble at about 450 PSI. Superblocks are great insulators, but they have poor structural strength.   Try drilling a hole into one and placing an anchor some time.

As pointed out before, so right, thats why they have to be tie in with columns, they are a quick insulated space filler.
If you want to hang things like kitchen cabinets thats where design comes in, there are many practical ways of doing this.
The main idea behind them is simple, time and money, that is there advantage over other materials.
As known there are many types of materials for a building structures whatever they use, it can be designed into it.
You could build a house out of paper-mache' if you wanted to.

[thomas2969]

As I do understand Q Con they made the blocks on the same standard, with same technology and under the same high quality than in Europe ("Hebel" , Germany). And in Europe this kind of Blocks are really famous to build a house without Concrete Columns.  

Thai:

http://www.qcon.co.th/profiles/company_pro-e.php

Europe:

http://wohnbau.hebel.de/de/content/hebel_planblock_1220.php

That´s why I don´t understand why some peoples (also in this Tread) say that this kind of blocks should not use for build a house without Concrete Columns.

Regards

Thomas

Edited by thomas2969, 2011-10-30 17:57:47.

[bankruatsteve]

thomas2969, on 2011-10-30 17:55:35, said:

As I do understand Q Con they made the blocks on the same standard, with same technology and under the same high quality than in Europe ("Hebel" , Germany). And in Europe this kind of Blocks are really famous to build a house without Concrete Columns.  

Thai:

http://www.qcon.co.th/profiles/company_pro-e.php

Europe:

http://wohnbau.hebel.de/de/content/hebel_planblock_1220.php

That´s why I don´t understand why some peoples (also in this Tread) say that this kind of blocks should not use for build a house without Concrete Columns.

Regards

Thomas

While not an expert on the subject, I'm pretty sure the important part is to have proper footings for whatever the structure.  After that, if there is only one flloor, I would think that Qcon/Superblock could well support for that without columns and with proper size/constuction.  The thing is, columns with reinforced steel, transfer the load to supported structure better (to minimuze cracks and settling, etc.)

[janverbeem]

thomas2969, on 2011-10-30 17:55:35, said:

As I do understand Q Con they made the blocks on the same standard, with same technology and under the same high quality than in Europe ("Hebel" , Germany). And in Europe this kind of Blocks are really famous to build a house without Concrete Columns.  

Thai:

http://www.qcon.co.th/profiles/company_pro-e.php

Europe:

http://wohnbau.hebel.de/de/content/hebel_planblock_1220.php

That´s why I don´t understand why some peoples (also in this Tread) say that this kind of blocks should not use for build a house without Concrete Columns.

Regards

Thomas

And in Europe every brick or block is famous to build without collumns since they don't use collums.

[lopburi3]

Anyone have information on using Q-con or others for floors (on top of normal cement/tile) for added height and covered with tile?  Would seem to be a lighter weight alternative to normal gravel/sand/rebar/cement.  Will likely be making a few floors a bit higher after the floods as extreme rain now got up several cm one time this year.

[bankruatsteve]

lopburi3, on 2011-10-30 19:24:21, said:

Anyone have information on using Q-con or others for floors (on top of normal cement/tile) for added height and covered with tile?  Would seem to be a lighter weight alternative to normal gravel/sand/rebar/cement.  Will likely be making a few floors a bit higher after the floods as extreme rain now got up several cm one time this year.

Are you talking about adding height to a floor to protect from flooding?  (BTW: in previous threads in TV posters have claimed that aerated cement dose NOT like water.)  Seems like an external solution would be better.  Or, do nothing and hope this year was one in a hundred.  (gulp)

[lopburi3]

With continued construction extreme rain storms now put areas only a few cm above road levels at risk for temporary flooding so was just to get room level above the possible water levels (rugs do not like dirty water very much).  Believe some of these blocks are a mix of concrete and plastic so might also have insulation/water proofing properties but not sure.

[thomas2969]

In my mind,the key is. If you use Superblock or Q con Blocks for a construction without Concrete Column (and I am sure you also can build a 2 storey with it also) you need to use the special System like for example the special glue. And, of course the most important is the   proper footings from the construction.

For a 2 storey house there is also a special floor panel  available, just look on the Homepage. http://www.ytong.dk/dk/img/Deckenabstellelement.jpg

In my mind,such kind of blocks is lighter weight, super good for isolation, easy and fast to build. And for hang cabinbets,just use the special plastic anchors for it.  http://www.click-licht.de/images/product_images/thumbnail_images/171507.jpg

Or:

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_04_2011/post-20604-0-23155800-

For Water and power lines see here: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cdgKVYYJugY/TGlc4RylMoI/AAAAAAAAAEA/OImYH6td64U/s1600/Steckdosen+und+Antennenanschl%C3%BCsse+2.JPG

Let me know how you think.

Regards

Thomas

Edited by thomas2969, 2011-10-30 21:54:29.

[Deke]

As a point of reference, a lot of the old housing authority single family homes that were built around Bangkok in the 1970's have walls made of concrete "cinder" blocks without columns.  They also used wooden piles with a concrete pile cap for the foundation.  Most of those that received any kind of routine maintenance are still around and very much habitable today.  These are typically two storey, three bedroom homes.

[janverbeem]

Actually there would be no problem building without collumns in Thailand.Only problem is that they aren't able to put 2 bricks straight next or on top of each other.Can you imagine what a leveraging this would make on a 3 meter high wall which isn't connected to collumns.

[bigdod]

Kwasaki, on 2011-10-29 17:59:31, said:

bigdod, on 2011-10-29 17:00:57, said:

Kwasaki, on 2011-10-29 15:58:30, said:

If your building a house the reinforced ground foundation lay out and depth needs to be designed to suit the ground area and your columns set out and raised from it.

This is a subject I'm considering at the moment. I need to find someone that knows about all of this to tell me exactly what I can or need to do before I even put two sticks together..... and we all know how difficult it is trying to weed out the 'experts' from the people that actually know what they're talking about.....

It's nothing to worry about really the main points are :-
1.  Do you need to raise the ground level for obvious recent events.
2.  What is the ground if not known, is it :- clay, sandy, or is there an underground lake.
3.  Dig an hole and find out or get somebody to do it.
4.  Most reinforced foundations correctly installed can be as little as 50cm deep, going from 75cm and up according to the building structure.
5.  Electrical earthing requirements can be done at that level too if really wanted.
6.  Once you have got your sound base your good to go.

Cheers Kwasaki... I'm not unduly concerned about the ground really....its up a couple of metres from the blacktop and then another metre or so down the other side to the rice paddy, so i think I should be ok for that. I also had a water well drilled to see if i was going to have to get plumbed into the "local" water or not (which was going to be costly) and as it turns out, now I've got a water well and the guy had to drill through mostly rock to get to it, so I'm guessing that its pretty firm underneath too. I've discussed this subject with a few bar experts who as it happens all agree with you that the foundation is the important bit ( I did kinda figure that part out for myself too....) but they did leave me puzzled as to what actually was the best way to achieve this.....so I guess my job this time is to engage the services of someone that does this for a living and see what he says. Interesting point about the earthing though.....I never considered that.

And of course......small lady is chewing my ear to just slap some bricks together....

[Kwasaki]

janverbeem, on 2011-10-30 19:11:10, said:

thomas2969, on 2011-10-30 17:55:35, said:

As I do understand Q Con they made the blocks on the same standard, with same technology and under the same high quality than in Europe ("Hebel" , Germany). And in Europe this kind of Blocks are really famous to build a house without Concrete Columns.  

That´s why I don´t understand why some peoples (also in this Tread) say that this kind of blocks should not use for build a house without Concrete Columns.
Regards
Thomas

And in Europe every brick or block is famous to build without collumns since they don't use collums.

It's plain for me to see lot of guys are getting mixed up with the way Europe do things and Thailand do things.

In Europe double wall construction is used in Thailand in the main single wall, so hence the columns.

Double wall construction with outside walls and inner walls, tied in conjunction with internal walls, cross beams and lintels act as structural support.

And I did say previously in post 6  (part of post quote)  
They can be in steel, ready formed beams, built up shuttered reinforced, or tied in brick columns. (unquote)

Edited by Kwasaki, 2011-11-01 15:23:33.

[Kwasaki]

lopburi3, on 2011-10-30 21:36:02, said:

1. Anyone have information on using Q-con or others for floors (on top of normal cement/tile) for added height and covered with tile? Would seem to be a lighter weight alternative to normal gravel/sand/rebar/cement. Will likely be making a few floors a bit higher after the floods as extreme rain now got up several cm one time this year.
2. With continued construction extreme rain storms now put areas only a few cm above road levels at risk for temporary flooding so was just to get room level above the possible water levels (rugs do not like dirty water very much).  Believe some of these blocks are a mix of concrete and plastic so might also have insulation/water proofing properties but not sure.

What you said in your first post and second, I can see where your coming from, correctly fixed and butted to internal walls,maybe it would work.
The question is, what is wrong with just another reinforced cement floor on top if it's the ground floor.?
BUT  !!  
What about door heights.?
Would it be high enough.?
What are ceiling heights.?
Other solutions would be an external decorative wall barrier.
Where are you in relation to the road.?
Where are neighbours houses in relation to yours.?
A plan would help.
Myself in your situation I would look to getting some good height above flooding levels of the recent ones.