Posted 2011-12-21 18:55:55
 katabeachbum, on 2011-12-21 12:13:46, said:
thaiwanderer, on 2011-12-21 07:42:50, said:
manarak, on 2011-12-21 06:37:48, said:
Is there a cap on the maximum term of a mortgage in Thai Law?
None, but if using a mortgage to attempt to enforce continued beneficial use its not entirely straight forward.
does any land office allow mortgage registered for more than 30 years?
Yes, but at the other end some refuse to register any mortgage where the lender and lessee or whatever is a foreigner or otherwise the intent is clearly transparent.
Posted 2011-12-27 12:52:34
Sadly or worryingly the honest opinion of most lawyers, prosecutors and judges is that the 'Lease' system is an attempt to circumvent Thai Law .... Period! Thus if challenged they will not stand up in court. I believe there are 6 or 7 test cases going through the courts at the moment in Samui and Phuket? It is also the opinion of at least one Honorary Consul! Really it can be best considered a rental agreement and nothing else.
Posted 2012-01-19 21:00:11
I've got an offer that looks promising and affordable. It's going to be a direct leasing between a temple and us. The contract is ratified by the land office and a lawyer's office. For the 30 - year lease they have the following rates:
Year 1 - 5 = 570 Baht / month
Year 6 - 10 = 760 Baht / month
Year 11 - 15 = 1,350 Baht / month
Year 16 - 20 = 1,850 Baht / month
Year 21 - 25 = 2,250 Baht / month
Year 26 - 30 = 2,650 Baht / month
After the 30 years the contract will be re-noegotiated.
Is that common practice that the leasing price increases with the time? So on top of the buying price for the house, which is around 1.8 million, there would be another 490,000 on top for the lease. Does that sound fair to you guys? The house is finished. All the fiitings and wiring is done, that includes water pump and tank on the rooftop. It's a 4-storey townhouse which can be used commercially.
Any suggstions or comments on that welcome
Posted 2012-01-20 00:34:01
That is not bad, not bad at all.
Can you pay per month also or is it a lump sum for the whole 30 years?
Posted 2012-01-20 00:42:17
Nip, on 2011-12-27 12:52:34, said:
Sadly or worryingly the honest opinion of most lawyers, prosecutors and judges is that the 'Lease' system is an attempt to circumvent Thai Law .... Period! Thus if challenged they will not stand up in court. I believe there are 6 or 7 test cases going through the courts at the moment in Samui and Phuket? It is also the opinion of at least one Honorary Consul! Really it can be best considered a rental agreement and nothing else.
In Samui and Phuket anything can be challenged. 
Nothing wrong with a lease (other than with your spouse obviously).
I like how you end, "Really it can be best considered a rental agreement and nothing else".
So WHAT do you really want to say, the first part or the last part?
I guess you are talking about the legality of those 'renewals'. I got news for you, they are perfectly legal, only problem is enforcement.
I wrote a lengthy post about that few years ago with some samples how someone can get out of the contract, at that time 30+30+30 leases were used by every lawyer, agent, developer.
Edited by Khun Jean, 2012-01-20 00:49:57.
Posted 2012-01-20 00:53:27
#32
ludditeman
Posted 2012-01-20 08:28:04
@New007
So you are buying the house on a lease AND giving them a monthly rental as well.
Sounds like a great deal for them.
A better deal for you would just to rent it for 4,000bht a month and put the 1.8Mbht in a bank.
We don't know where it is so can't give an opinion on the rental value.
In CM rental on that sort of place is 8-10k per month (or 3M outright purchase)
In NR rental would be 4-5k per month (or 1.5M outright purchase)
Edited by ludditeman, 2012-01-20 08:32:26.
Posted 2012-01-20 11:21:22
Well, the money is collected by the emple committee every month as far as I understood. We've seen the lease contract and the contract says that after the 30 years they will be re-negotiating the terms.
The property is located in Nakhon Pathom province.
Yes, the house is up for sale. The owner don't want to rent them out. They prefer to sell them. I think for the first ten years the terms are really reasonable. We want to run a little business in it and hope to pay the lease from it. We currently own a two-storey house but we're looking for a buyer for that than. We've decided against renting it out since Thai tennants aren't very keen on maintainence! But I think we get a fair deal there! Thanks for your input guys.
Posted 2012-01-20 11:30:49
The land is owned by a temple which is located opposite the property. We've talked to people in town that live on leased temple land and they have lived there for 40+ years. They never had problems and there contracts were renewed with a slight increase of course, but not the mentioned 2 or 3 times as much!! What do you think of a temple as lessor? There will always be monks in Thailand to run a temple, so people don't die or they transfer it to their daughters or sons!
Posted 2012-02-03 16:56:21
30+30+30 is fantasyland. Developers hoodwink gullible falangs with this one all the time. 30 max is all that is recognized, the rest is bull feces. A lease must be honoured by the heirs or assigns but they are under NO obligation to renew for an additional 30 years.
Posted 2012-02-04 10:35:40
I have a question regarding leasing:
I just finished paying my house off (to the developer) and now has to do the transfer.
The land office fee is app 220k bath total which I has to pay as pr contract. because I been living interest free in the house for app. 2 years with monthly payments to them.
2 independent law offices in Pattaya have told me that I have to transfer two times in order to get my name in the Chanote and that it will be the most safe option for me? I will be leasing from my wife and we have a 2 year old boy. I am fine with leasing for only 30 years as I will be 80 years old then (if still alive, he-he).
Why is it necessary to transfer 2 times and pay 440 k bath instead of 220k bath?
Hope somebody here can enlightening me, thanks.
Posted 2012-02-04 13:38:37
If you are leasing from your wife, why bother with a lease at all? You will be just throwing away your money.
Posted 2012-02-04 19:22:01
guzzi850m2, on 2012-02-04 10:35:40, said:
I have a question regarding leasing:
I just finished paying my house off (to the developer) and now has to do the transfer.
The land office fee is app 220k bath total which I has to pay as pr contract. because I been living interest free in the house for app. 2 years with monthly payments to them.
2 independent law offices in Pattaya have told me that I have to transfer two times in order to get my name in the Chanote and that it will be the most safe option for me? I will be leasing from my wife and we have a 2 year old boy. I am fine with leasing for only 30 years as I will be 80 years old then (if still alive, he-he).
Why is it necessary to transfer 2 times and pay 440 k bath instead of 220k bath?
Hope somebody here can enlightening me, thanks.
Could you perhaps clarify what the 2 are to be?
I assume the first is transfer of freehold from to developer to your wife, the second is a lease from your wife to you (strictly speaking not a transfer).
As it stands of course they are two separate transactions so I'm struggling to see why you would think they are or could be one?
You talk of 'most safe option' - are you aware your wife can in the future cancel a lease she's granted to you?
Edited by thaiwanderer, 2012-02-04 19:23:16.
Posted 2012-02-04 20:30:11
thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-04 19:22:01, said:
Could you perhaps clarify what the 2 are to be?
I assume the first is transfer of freehold from to developer to your wife, the second is a lease from your wife to you (strictly speaking not a transfer).
As it stands of course they are two separate transactions so I'm struggling to see why you would think they are or could be one?
You talk of 'most safe option' - are you aware your wife can in the future cancel a lease she's granted to you?
I am by no means an expert on this subject but I will try to explain what the experts have told me.
No we are talking about 2 transfers in the land office, first to my wife and then another where my name will be in the bottom ot the Chanote, thats why the 2X 220 k bath.
I will also be leasing the property for 30 years from my wife and she signs a mortgage agreement. I am having another meeting with a Thai lawyer on Monday and hopes he can explain why this 2X transfers are necessary.
Are you saying my wife can cancel the lease agreement at any time? If so I will assume that she will have to compensate me?
Posted 2012-02-04 20:37:28
Are you actually paying to lease of your wife if so how bizarre and what a strange relationship
Posted 2012-02-04 22:47:04
taninthai, on 2012-02-04 20:37:28, said:
Are you actually paying to lease of your wife if so how bizarre and what a strange relationship
No I am not paying for the lease.
Nobody knows how a marriage will be in say 10 -15 years time, so I am taking my precautions. I know quite a few guys that has lost big money in the West & here due to a divorce so why not try to protect myself. Your statement is very naive.
Posted 2012-02-04 23:43:59
Not naive at all just if you don't trust your wife why go down the road of buying something you can't legally own and will never be in your name you have already admitted you are no expert in this your wife can cancel the lease whenever she wants so it's not worth the paper it's written on ,so you are looking at paying 220k minimum for a piece of paper that is worth nothing now tell me who is naive.
I would look at doing more research into how you can protect yourself properly if you are going the lease route.
Edited by taninthai, 2012-02-04 23:46:41.
Posted 2012-02-05 15:36:50
guzzi850m2, on 2012-02-04 20:30:11, said:
thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-04 19:22:01, said:
Could you perhaps clarify what the 2 are to be?
I assume the first is transfer of freehold from to developer to your wife, the second is a lease from your wife to you (strictly speaking not a transfer).
As it stands of course they are two separate transactions so I'm struggling to see why you would think they are or could be one?
You talk of 'most safe option' - are you aware your wife can in the future cancel a lease she's granted to you?
I am by no means an expert on this subject but I will try to explain what the experts have told me.
No we are talking about 2 transfers in the land office, first to my wife and then another where my name will be in the bottom ot the Chanote, thats why the 2X 220 k bath.
I will also be leasing the property for 30 years from my wife and she signs a mortgage agreement. I am having another meeting with a Thai lawyer on Monday and hopes he can explain why this 2X transfers are necessary.
Are you saying my wife can cancel the lease agreement at any time? If so I will assume that she will have to compensate me?
Your wife can cancel the lease and mortgage and any other agreement made between you and may not need to compensate you (opinions differ). The structure your intent on also appears illegal and you both may well be comitting an imprisonable offence.
That's assuming of course the land office accept the lease and mortgage and for example don't just only allow the registration of the freehold to your wife!
How much is the tea money?
Since you appear interested in protecting yourself there are varying other ways to do it.
On your structure, the first transfer will be the freehold to your wife.
The lease and mortgage will be two further and technically separate transactions.
- therefore three transactions - so I'm a little confused as to why you are questioning why its 2 fees instead of 1????
You talk of your name on the chanote but that means little since it might be for for the lease, the mortgage and / or for something else. What do you think its for? And are you aware it offers no real protection?
Edited by thaiwanderer, 2012-02-05 15:47:07.
Posted 2012-02-06 09:02:56
thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-05 15:36:50, said:
[
Your wife can cancel the lease and mortgage and any other agreement made between you and may not need to compensate you (opinions differ). The structure your intent on also appears illegal and you both may well be comitting an imprisonable offence.
That's assuming of course the land office accept the lease and mortgage and for example don't just only allow the registration of the freehold to your wife!
How much is the tea money?
Since you appear interested in protecting yourself there are varying other ways to do it.
On your structure, the first transfer will be the freehold to your wife.
The lease and mortgage will be two further and technically separate transactions.
- therefore three transactions - so I'm a little confused as to why you are questioning why its 2 fees instead of 1????
You talk of your name on the chanote but that means little since it might be for for the lease, the mortgage and / or for something else. What do you think its for? And are you aware it offers no real protection?
Thanks for your inputs.
The more I hear about leasing the more confused I get. I have told my lawyer that I will do only one transfer (app. 220k bath) as I can't see the purpose of all these transfers. We will also go and talk to the landoffice soon and hear what they say.
After some hard thinking over the weekend I have come to the conclusion that I will choose to trust my wife whom I know for app 7 years and we have a lovely + 2 year old son and plan to have another child.
I think in case of divorce we will have to split all assets in 1/2 and that is good enough for me.
Posted 2012-02-06 15:12:39
guzzi850m2, on 2012-02-06 09:02:56, said:
thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-05 15:36:50, said:
[
Your wife can cancel the lease and mortgage and any other agreement made between you and may not need to compensate you (opinions differ). The structure your intent on also appears illegal and you both may well be comitting an imprisonable offence.
That's assuming of course the land office accept the lease and mortgage and for example don't just only allow the registration of the freehold to your wife!
How much is the tea money?
Since you appear interested in protecting yourself there are varying other ways to do it.
On your structure, the first transfer will be the freehold to your wife.
The lease and mortgage will be two further and technically separate transactions.
- therefore three transactions - so I'm a little confused as to why you are questioning why its 2 fees instead of 1????
You talk of your name on the chanote but that means little since it might be for for the lease, the mortgage and / or for something else. What do you think its for? And are you aware it offers no real protection?
Thanks for your inputs.
The more I hear about leasing the more confused I get. I have told my lawyer that I will do only one transfer (app. 220k bath) as I can't see the purpose of all these transfers. We will also go and talk to the landoffice soon and hear what they say.
After some hard thinking over the weekend I have come to the conclusion that I will choose to trust my wife whom I know for app 7 years and we have a lovely + 2 year old son and plan to have another child.
I think in case of divorce we will have to split all assets in 1/2 and that is good enough for me.
Understandably confusing, but the purpose of the 2nd and 3rd transactions is YOU.
One transaction alone will just be the freehold to your wife.
Before the land office register it they will require:
her to prove she's buying with her own money;
or ;
you to declare its her own money alone and the land is her Sin Suan Tua (separate/personal property) rather than Sin Somros (community/marital property).
Experiences and opinions on how this plays out at divorce differ.
Posted 2012-02-06 18:34:31
guzzi850m2, on 2012-02-06 09:02:56, said:
After some hard thinking over the weekend I have come to the conclusion that I will choose to trust my wife whom I know for app 7 years and we have a lovely + 2 year old son and plan to have another child.
I think in case of divorce we will have to split all assets in 1/2 and that is good enough for me.
Split all assets except the land. Meaning a lot less than you think, a lot less!
The best thing (for you) is to put the land in your wifes mothers name and get a usufruct for life
A standard usufruct will cost you around 120 baht. A lease will have tax implications and is limited to 30 years,
If your wife has brothers and sisters it can be a problem when her mother dies, not for you but for your wife and child. If it is certain your wife will inherit it then it is not a problem for your wife.
If under those conditions it is a big problem for your wife (it should not unless a large percentage is her personal money), think very hard why.....
Edited by Khun Jean, 2012-02-06 18:36:18.
Posted 2012-02-06 19:30:23
Been talking to a real Thai lawyer today and he told me that a 30 year lease that will paid at the land office after or during the transfer (paid for the whole 30 years period in one go) can't be canceled by anybody.
A 30 year lease is good enough for me, when it expire I will be 80 years old, if I am still alive or perhaps already expired, he-he. If I am alive at that age and my wife has managed to put up with me for so long can likely take 10 years more with me if needed.
Thanks for the tip about usufruct but It is really not an option for us.
Posted 2012-02-06 19:44:27
guzzi850m2, on 2012-02-06 19:30:23, said:
Been talking to a real Thai lawyer today and he told me that a 30 year lease that will paid at the land office after or during the transfer (paid for the whole 30 years period in one go) can't be canceled by anybody.
A 30 year lease is good enough for me, when it expire I will be 80 years old, if I am still alive or perhaps already expired, he-he. If I am alive at that age and my wife has managed to put up with me for so long can likely take 10 years more with me if needed.
Thanks for the tip about usufruct but It is really not an option for us.
If lease to you is granted by your wife it CAN be cancelled. The lawyer is wrong, you misinterpreted them or you meant to post 'other than if its a lease from the wife'.
CCC Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage, provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.
Posted 2012-02-06 19:46:02
guzzi850m2, on 2012-02-06 19:30:23, said:
Been talking to a real Thai lawyer today and he told me that a 30 year lease that will paid at the land office after or during the transfer (paid for the whole 30 years period in one go) can't be canceled by anybody.
A 30 year lease is good enough for me, when it expire I will be 80 years old, if I am still alive or perhaps already expired, he-he. If I am alive at that age and my wife has managed to put up with me for so long can likely take 10 years more with me if needed.
Thanks for the tip about usufruct but It is really not an option for us.
Most lawyers will just tell you what you want to hear or tell you anything to seal the deal look at the other thread the sales rep told the op once he has the 30 year lease he can just go land office pay 1% and change to 60 years lol
Posted 2012-02-06 20:45:34
thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-06 19:44:27, said:
If lease to you is granted by your wife it CAN be canceled. The lawyer is wrong, you misinterpreted them or you meant to post 'other than if its a lease from the wife'.
CCC Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage, provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.
Well well, the lawyer I used today have helped me in the past with company set up for my previous house. Todays visit at his office was free of charge.
Have anybody here heard about a house lease contract wife/husband has been canceled, using CCC Section 1469?
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