237 replies to this topic
Posted 2011-12-19 18:46:25
I dont know if Im looking for advice per se, maybe it is more a rant and need to vent
and part of it is perhaps a rhetoric question.....
I work mostly with Thai, but in my work my paths cross with many farang (mostly male)
usually my interaction with them is not face to face....everything happens through emails.
recently there was an occasion where I met many of them......most are people Ive never met, nor had any interaction with at all. I was very shocked when I had more than one man make advances on me. and more angry when I learnt that 4 out of 5 of them are married men
so what is it with them.....
is it that they dont respect their own marriage?
is it that they assume every woman in thailand are fair game, and that neither of us have or care about moral rules?
is it that they do not have any social/professional etiquette?
or is it that these men are just going to be the way they are, regardless of where they live and who they are dealing with?
yes, sure some of them had had a few drinks (maybe some had way too much) - but still. why get married if you cant remain loyal?
Im baffled, angry and upset all at the same time...and in a way, also disappointed in general. makes me doubt about men in general, and whether there are sincere and loyal /faithful men who dont stray
(yes I know some nice guys who are very good to their wives....but when you meet so many that didnt even hesitate or try to hide the fact they are going to cheat.....all in one day....it starts to cast doubts on the whole male specie.....)
msclueless (and baffled and shocked)
ohhh, and no Im not stunning or a supermodel that men will find irresistable. just average, and not all that young or slim either
Edited by MsClueless, 2011-12-19 18:47:51.
Posted 2011-12-19 19:09:46
Some men may lynch me for telling the truth here but what you have witnessed is basic behavior of most men (given a chance and confidence of course). It is easier to try and live with it.
Edited by Heimdallr, 2011-12-19 19:20:23.
Posted 2011-12-19 19:14:58
Because we can.
Posted 2011-12-19 19:25:44
 Heimdallr, on 2011-12-19 19:09:46, said:
Some men may lynch me for telling the truth here but what you have witnessed is basic behavior of most men (given a chance and confidence of course). It is easier to try and live with it.
The above is pretty much correct. Then again, there are plenty of women who welcome the attention and pretty much make it a mutual horizontal dance.
Posted 2011-12-19 20:16:56
My immediate idea (and I could well be wrong as there could be many possible conclusions here) is that if you look particularly confident in an attractive way most men who are not totally confident with themselves will want to behave like that to prove to others that they can get your attention. If there is a majority of men then, even more so. You are the star of the evening and they will all compete with each other to be with you. It's a game. I think it could still happen if you were a man and the rest were women.
There are a number of people who find this type of behaviour attractive and others totally off putting. I have had to end my friendship with some couples because the guy would make me, his girlfriend and my then partner feel uncomfortable. I had to leave a job because the boss' wife was giving me grief, she was jealous of me for no particular reason, I hardly ever saw him or talked to him at all and neither of us felt anything for each other, I think she was a bit insecure and perhaps she didn't trust him.
I just keep in mind a great answer Paul Newman once gave a journalist when asked if he had ever felt tempted to cheat on his wife during his Hollywood years. I can't remember well but it was something like Why look for a mere burger when you can have a tasty steak waiting for you at home?
I believe that there are many men and women who don't need to cheat on their partners because they are in a stable and happy relationship based on trust and friendship which goes well beyond romance. There are couples who need to cheat on each other or live an open relationship to feel complete. As long as they are happy..
Posted 2011-12-19 23:24:42
Posted 2011-12-19 23:34:18
Quote ohhh, and no Im not stunning or a supermodel that men will find irresistable. just average, and not all that young or slim either
Then you should feel more complimented then put off or exasperated..
You failed to mention if you're Thai or not? If not it is also likely you're a bit of a break from the usual to these men and a novelty not to be passed by, even chocolate ice cream gets boring after a while no matter how good it tastes..
Posted 2011-12-20 05:50:12
Ave, on 2011-12-19 20:16:56, said:
I believe that there are many men and women who don't need to cheat on their partners because they are in a stable and happy relationship based on trust and friendship which goes well beyond romance.
With my wife it's never a cross word spoken, no moody tantrums, no infantile arguments, a relationship based on trust, plenty of laughs, she's my best pal and a daughter we both adore.
Why throw that away with someone who's about a million light years from holding a candle to my missus.
Edited by mca, 2011-12-20 05:51:32.
Posted 2011-12-20 07:52:23
So if they had a few drinks, are you meeting them in a bar? Details matter, like why you meet them in the first place. IMO the odds you quote are too high.
Posted 2011-12-20 08:21:16
Just because someone with a vested interest wrote in some book about sinning, doesn't make a difference in the animal kingdom.
Face it. We are pigs.
Posted 2011-12-20 12:43:37
Ave - thanks for sharing
yes there were a bit more men than there were women...but not overly so
the problem for me is not that they paid me attention (Im a woman, sure I enjoy the attention), or even a bit of flirting.......the problem and the shock is when they are directly suggest more than that. to someone they have just met, spoken to for such a short time, and someone they meet in a semi work environment. with more than half of them being married is even more so shocking
one of them was so direct to the point of being vulgar. i didnt wait to find out whether hes married or not! couldnt wait to walk away!
(and before anyone wants to suggest I was dressed in a provocative way - the answer is no!)
johnbits - no this was not in a bar, but it was a social gathering outside the office
Edited by MsClueless, 2011-12-20 12:46:30.
Posted 2011-12-20 19:33:26
MsClueless, on 2011-12-20 12:43:37, said:
the problem for me is not that they paid me attention (Im a woman, sure I enjoy the attention), or even a bit of flirting.......the problem and the shock is when they are directly suggest more than that. to someone they have just met, spoken to for such a short time, and someone they meet in a semi work environment. with more than half of them being married is even more so shocking
one of them was so direct to the point of being vulgar. i didnt wait to find out whether hes married or not! couldnt wait to walk away!
(and before anyone wants to suggest I was dressed in a provocative way - the answer is no!)
TiT ?
#13
hehehoho
Posted 2011-12-20 19:59:22
Men like sex with women, even if their wife isn't around. Shock.
My mistress (sex only, {unpaid  }) is lovely, as is the wife. If another fit female wishes to be added to the collection I probably wouldn't refuse.
It's our DNA, it's what we're programmed to do.
Posted 2011-12-20 21:33:04
hehehoho, on 2011-12-20 19:59:22, said:
Men like sex with women, even if their wife isn't around. Shock.
My mistress (sex only, {unpaid }) is lovely, as is the wife. If another fit female wishes to be added to the collection I probably wouldn't refuse.
It's our DNA, it's what we're programmed to do.  
Posted 2011-12-20 21:54:58
MsClueless, on 2011-12-20 12:43:37, said:
Ave - thanks for sharing
yes there were a bit more men than there were women...but not overly so
the problem for me is not that they paid me attention (Im a woman, sure I enjoy the attention), or even a bit of flirting.......the problem and the shock is when they are directly suggest more than that. to someone they have just met, spoken to for such a short time, and someone they meet in a semi work environment. with more than half of them being married is even more so shocking
one of them was so direct to the point of being vulgar. i didnt wait to find out whether hes married or not! couldnt wait to walk away!
(and before anyone wants to suggest I was dressed in a provocative way - the answer is no!)
johnbits - no this was not in a bar, but it was a social gathering outside the office
MsClueless, I can imagine that you might be feeling quite disturbed by all this. Are these your colleagues the men you are talking about? If that's the case I think that knowing that in Thailand they would get away with it without being accused of sexual harassment makes it more of a bravado than anything. Or perhaps if they know each other quite well they might have put a bet on sleeping with you or something like that. It could be what actually happened which can leave an after taste of humiliation. If you feel intimidated by these people you could try to talk to someone in a position of authority at work about it. If it's difficult or not worth it I'd take it as an experience to learn from. In my experience, a threatening long stare keeps that kind of hungry beast away for good.. 
Posted 2011-12-22 14:06:45
hi Ave
they are not my colleagues...but our paths cross on a professional level.
its not so much about sexual harassment - only one of them was rude. the others were friendly and polite enough. it was only when I find that they are married that surprised me. and it became more of a shock that after they had made known they are married, they go on to suggest more than just a friendly chat.....
two of them know each other, while another two dont know each other at all. and all of them only met me that day for the first time!
I am learning to live with it, when it first happened to me many years ago I was very upset, and began to wonder if I had given the guy any impression. but today I have learnt that it is nothing I did / do.
it still does not stop to baffle me though - why get married, or decide to enter a committed relationship? if you arent going to remain loyal and committed, its better to tell your partner the nature of the relationship
Edited by MsClueless, 2011-12-22 14:08:03.
Posted 2011-12-22 14:09:38
maybe a question to hehehoho
does your wife know of the mistress? how does she feel about that?
Posted 2011-12-22 22:40:59
I usually have the same problem from thai ladies, especially the one's who have husbands and boyfriends outside the country. think now days both sex's are the same as each other. its not unique to men, its in all our Jeans.
could be said the like's of Miss Lewinski and Camilla Parker Bowles had no morals as well.
Posted 2011-12-23 16:49:51
I just read recently that 57% of all married men in Thailand are cheating on their wife.
But ... 63% of all married women in Thailand do too!
So may be the OP is coming down a bit from the moral high grounds. It's a normal thing here. Thai culture.
Posted 2011-12-23 16:53:51
Believe OP was not talking about Thai men...
Posted 2011-12-23 17:40:09
MsClueless, on 2011-12-19 18:46:25, said:
I dont know if Im looking for advice per se, maybe it is more a rant and need to vent
and part of it is perhaps a rhetoric question.....
I work mostly with Thai, but in my work my paths cross with many farang (mostly male)
usually my interaction with them is not face to face....everything happens through emails.
recently there was an occasion where I met many of them......most are people Ive never met, nor had any interaction with at all. I was very shocked when I had more than one man make advances on me. and more angry when I learnt that 4 out of 5 of them are married men
so what is it with them.....
is it that they dont respect their own marriage?
is it that they assume every woman in thailand are fair game, and that neither of us have or care about moral rules?
is it that they do not have any social/professional etiquette?
or is it that these men are just going to be the way they are, regardless of where they live and who they are dealing with?
yes, sure some of them had had a few drinks (maybe some had way too much) - but still. why get married if you cant remain loyal?
Im baffled, angry and upset all at the same time...and in a way, also disappointed in general. makes me doubt about men in general, and whether there are sincere and loyal /faithful men who dont stray
(yes I know some nice guys who are very good to their wives....but when you meet so many that didnt even hesitate or try to hide the fact they are going to cheat.....all in one day....it starts to cast doubts on the whole male specie.....)
msclueless (and baffled and shocked)
ohhh, and no Im not stunning or a supermodel that men will find irresistable. just average, and not all that young or slim either
What are you doing tonight, i can explain it 
Posted 2011-12-24 08:35:57
There is a strange phenomenon that happens to many farang men in Thailand. A lot of these guys were socially inept back in their homelands, while some are just past their prime. They don't get much attention from women back in the west, especially younger women. Once they spend a little bit of time in Thailand (read the bar scene), they become convinced that they are Adonis, or as you often hear, "hansum man." They mistakenly take this new-found confidence out into normal society. Thai women (the normal ones) may be uncomfortable with this, but will not outwardly reject farang men due to shyness and the culture (i.e., not to offend people). But occassionally, the farang guy will approach a farang woman who is not shy about responding with a "Who the heck do you think you are?" sort of reaction.
So why get married in the first place? Well, my observation is that some of these guys have been lonely for so long that when the first person pays attention to them, they jump right on it. Buyers' remorse then? Some of these guys just believe that they are entitled, being God's gift to women, kid-in-a-candy-store, and all that. My two cents.
Posted 2011-12-24 09:14:38
Berkshire - they don't seem so socially inept at all. If anything, they were overly confident.
I spoke to two of them more than I did with the others. One even made it a point to comment on my ring to say ahhh that's not a wedding ring finger. Basically saying he's checking whether I'm married. That was when I checked his fingers too. And no, no ring.
Strange thing to do.
And no it is not acceptable to cheat in thai culture. Does it exist? Yes. But not amongst people around me. And in my opinion I assume those that make attempt would consider circumstances and make the approach differently.
Eg if you approach a woman who work in a bar maybe more direct
If it is someone you don't know personally, but you are in same circle of business / professional setting I imagine people would refrain! Or approach only when woman has given signal she's interested, or you have known each other for sometime and u think she maybe interested
But a random stranger?
And yes sbk none of the men I'm talk about are thai. All are farang
#24
hehehoho
Posted 2011-12-24 09:49:01
MsClueless, on 2011-12-22 14:09:38, said:
maybe a question to hehehoho
does your wife know of the mistress? how does she feel about that?
It's also built into our DNA to keep that quiet. 
Do you think the foreign men who wanted to use you for extra-marital fun were going to use it as pillow talk with the missus that night?
Posted 2011-12-24 20:23:43
MsClueless, on 2011-12-24 09:14:38, said:
Berkshire - they don't seem so socially inept at all. If anything, they were overly confident.
I spoke to two of them more than I did with the others. One even made it a point to comment on my ring to say ahhh that's not a wedding ring finger. Basically saying he's checking whether I'm married. That was when I checked his fingers too. And no, no ring.
Strange thing to do.
And no it is not acceptable to cheat in thai culture. Does it exist? Yes. But not amongst people around me. And in my opinion I assume those that make attempt would consider circumstances and make the approach differently.
Eg if you approach a woman who work in a bar maybe more direct
If it is someone you don't know personally, but you are in same circle of business / professional setting I imagine people would refrain! Or approach only when woman has given signal she's interested, or you have known each other for sometime and u think she maybe interested
But a random stranger?
And yes sbk none of the men I'm talk about are thai. All are farang
its is Endemic in all levels of Thai society, high class Thais have giks and its well known, despite being on tv with there wife and children. there have been high proflle case of people in Parliament doing it, a friend of mine works and Sixth Sence in Samui and high society people turn up all time with differnt young ladies other than there wives. you must be leading a very sheltered life if you think its not rampant. Another problem is the reputation of thailand around the world so they guys quite wrongly assumed all Thai women were easy. Such is i tell people at home i live in South East Asia as i dont like the responses when i say Thailand. Its goes on in all society's in all countries. your statement thats its not acceptable in thai society is in my opinion so far off the mark. take a look at the HiSo kareoke car parks, Porche , Mercs etc. also seems to be a perk of the job of heads of school to be unfaithfull with younger teaches.
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