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[bubu]

Hi everybody ... and first of all, merry christmas to all of you guys who celebrate this event :-)

I have a question ... it's OFF topic and please apologize that I'm asking my question here, but I guess it's the only sub-forum where I could find an answer ...

The question is written in the title already ... has anyone of you guys been to Japan already?

I'd really like to know something about the gay scene there.
The boys in discos or bars ... are they mainly moneyboys? Maybe they don't ask, but do they expect money? Or is this something unusual in Japan? I guess cities like Tokyo are a bit more "open", compared to other cities !?

Are there any taboos? I know that Japan has sooooo many things what to do, what not to do ... maybe there is something "forbidden" or "dirty" in "sex culture" ... how about oral sex? ;-)

I would appreciate to get some replies ... I am sure some of you guys are travel experts and can provide some information.

[japangaystuff]

Well Japanese clubs and discos are nothing like Thailand, not at all:

1. There are many Japanese discos, saunas, etc., which simply don't permit non-Japanese to enter, and there's no point in discussing it. In reality many would be frightened they will lose clientele. Many Japanese customers expect that the sauna etc., will be total (pure) Japanese.  From my understanding 99% of the customers at these places would have zero English ability - but that's not really the point. This is also true of host clubs (and there are many gay host clubs all over Japan). When I was there I phoned or visited a number of host clubs, most responded with 'Japanese only!'. I did 'off' one very pleasant 'macho cute' young university student to my apartment, and he spoke fair English. He admitted that he was straight but he did try to please.

2. On the other hand there is a very small number of clubs (when I worked in Tokyo there were two such venues, one which could accommodate maybe 50 guests total and the second one much smaller) where foreigners are very welcome by the owners and these places do attract Japanese who are quite interested in foreigners. These places are not commercial sex venues.

There are a few money boys but no more than any big city in the world, in fact at the two placed I mention I was never approached by a money boy.  Are there large numbers of younger Japanese boys looking for a foreign rich sugar daddy. I never noticed this at all.

In my experience most of the Japanese customers at these two places were people in good employment etc., Most locals at these venuescan speak simple to good English.

2. At Japanese discos, which will allow you to enter,  there will of course be a few who are interested in foreigners but most of these guys will not approach you and they will have concerns about what other customers / their friends will think. Most would have very limited English ability.

3. Japanese boys at discos are mainly looking for other Japanese their own age.

4. GayRomeo etc., was the way I made a few contacts.

5. There was one gay drinking bar in Osaka which aimed it's marketing at serious Japanese body builders, they also welcomed foreigners who are serious body builders.  I did visit this bar and discovered it was a 'cult' body builders place, with no Japanese of western customers who were not serious body builders. I left quickly.

Edited by japangaystuff, 2011-12-25 20:58:09.

[tombkk]

There is a whole area in Tokyo where you can go as as a gaijin (farang) and be appreciated. Check out www.utopia-asia.com

I go to GB (popular bar) every time I'm in Tokyo, it's my type of bar. They have several kinds of beer. There is also a discotheque right opposite (Dragon?) and many bars welcoming Westerners are in walking distance. 3-chome or something is the name of the district.

It's all based on mutually liking each other, very unlike any money-boy scene you may know from Thailand. Don't worry if you are fat or old, in Japan you will find someone who likes especially that. The only thing that would deter them is a bad character (or bad mood). Note that you have to approach them, which is different from Thailand, where the locals will approach you.

Whatever transpires, it is a good idea not to offer any money to the Japanese. It would be an insult.

There are also "clubs" in that area of Tokyo with boys who would like to see a precious dollar, if you prefer that. Not difficult to find, often on an upstairs floor only reachable by elevator, and expensive. Ask for the price in advance.

[Ijustwannateach]

The Japanese like their closets, and so they are well-lighted, with good parking, and specific signs to where you are supposed to go (metaphorically speaking).

As a non-resident tourist, the OP should stick absolutely to the 'foreigner-friendly' zones, partly because those are the areas where there is the highest likelihood that someone might want to meet you in particular (and foreigners in general) and partly because if you do manage to stumble into anywhere else, you will have no idea how to function and you will generally have a very expensive and unrewarding time.

Some things to know for the visiting gay tourist:
1.  English, generally, is not spoken.  The exceptions would be students and workers who are specifically trying to be specialists in English, or persons who have travelled a lot and/or have interests in foreigners.  This is one reason you should stick to the foreigner bars.
2.  Generally speaking (and most especially in the foreigner-friendly locations referenced already here) the scene is not about prostitution.  That means you will have to employ those age-old devices known as 'social skills'.  However, don't worry too much about being older, or heavy, etc., because....
3.  There is- for better or for worse- a great deal of fetishism among the Japanese.  What we might call a 'type' almost becomes an obsessive compulsion with them.  This includes the possibility of Japanese who are specifically attracted to older men, to heavier men, to foreigners....  as a tourist, this may come across as flattering; after you've lived there and encountered a number of guys who are ONLY interested in you because you are older, or heavier, or a foreigner, it is somewhat less thrilling.
4.  There are locations which, because they simply don't want to go through the stress of someone who doesn't know how to act/speak, and don't want the other customers bothered either, will refuse entry to you.  You should cooperate with this even though it probably violates several international treaties to which Japan is a signatory.  It is highly likely that, as someone who can't speak the language, you won't be able to function in a way that will make such locations very rewarding anyway.  You will probably not find these locations by accident, so don't be too worried about it.
5.  The Japanese can be lovely to socialise with, but it is wise to do a bit of research on the culture first- read some basic travel books before you go regarding etiquette and customs.

And, specifically for the expat who is used to Thailand:
6.  Prostitution is widely available and not terribly stigmatised; however, it is terrifically expensive (by comparison to Thailand) and hardly necessary, unless you are lacking the 'social skills' mentioned above....

[bubu]

hi everybody ... and thanks for all the information.

i assume the easiest way to meet a japanese guy is to use gayromeo ...
all other alternatives seem to be very complicated!

i am not travelling to tokyo, i am travelling to nagoya which has probably a much smaller gay community and gay scene !?!?!??!?

[Ijustwannateach]

No problem and good luck.  If someone replies to you in English that's a good sign that they are already somewhat familiar with how to interact with foreigners.

Unfortunately, what some people have said above about Japanese being worried about 'being seen with a foreigner' is actually true.

[Ijustwannateach]

PS, one more element that wasn't addressed in the OP- I don't think there's anything that average gay Americans/British would do that average gay Japanese wouldn't.....  if you're looking for things further out on the fringes, then you may need to seek more specialist locations that are likely to hit you with the 'Japanese Only' routine....

[bubu]

Ijustwannateach, on 2011-12-27 10:32:42, said:

Unfortunately, what some people have said above about Japanese being worried about 'being seen with a foreigner' is actually true.

to be honest, in my opinion the japanese culture and the japanese manners are very very strange.

[Eman]

I've been living in Tokyo for more than 20 years...

The primary gay area is Shinjuku 2-chome, with (literally) hundreds of bars/clubs, almost all of which are populated with regular boys.
There are a few moneyboy places, but they are usually clearly labelled as "Host Pubs" or "Time Service".
A few places may not allow foreigners, but very few...
The primary language is, of course, Japanese, but there are lots of foreigners in 2-chome, and I assume they all manage to communicate/hook-up with the locals.

PM me if you want to.

Eman

[bubu]

as i already mentioned i won't travel to tokyo ....

[tombkk]

bubu, on 2011-12-27 11:37:05, said:

Ijustwannateach, on 2011-12-27 10:32:42, said:

Unfortunately, what some people have said above about Japanese being worried about 'being seen with a foreigner' is actually true.

to be honest, in my opinion the japanese culture and the japanese manners are very very strange.

I hope you mean "strange"  in the sense of "foreign to you". Yes, every culture is different.

[tombkk]

Eman, on 2011-12-27 13:24:08, said:

I've been living in Tokyo for more than 20 years...

The primary gay area is Shinjuku 2-chome, with (literally) hundreds of bars/clubs, almost all of which are populated with regular boys.
There are a few moneyboy places, but they are usually clearly labelled as "Host Pubs" or "Time Service".
A few places may not allow foreigners, but very few...
The primary language is, of course, Japanese, but there are lots of foreigners in 2-chome, and I assume they all manage to communicate/hook-up with the locals.

PM me if you want to.

Eman

Of course you are right, 2-chome, not 3-chome. Memory isn't what it used to be...

By the way, I had a good but affordable hotel in walking distance. Hard to believe in Shinjuku, but true.

[bubu]

hi e verybody ... HAPPY NEW YEAR!

i am in nagoya at the moment and i am surprised about the gay scene here .... it's such a big city, but there is just one famous bar, that's it.

[Ijustwannateach]

Nagoya is not a huge party town.  Also, at this point, there is a huge Japanese internet scene (which of course won't be all that useful to a tourist)- there are one or two English language speciality sites, but I don't know if they will have a huge following among the Nagoyans- as usual, the scene is biggest in the biggest cities, and most foreigner-'friendly', so to speak, in cities where there are more foreigners.

[jaizan]

bubu, on 2012-01-01 03:25:38, said:

i am in nagoya at the moment and i am surprised about the gay scene here .... it's such a big city, but there is just one famous bar, that's it.

Remember the Shinkansen.  Just 127 minutes from Nagoya to the heart of the Tokyo gay scene.

http://www.hyperdia....ed&sum_target=7

[bubu]

jaizan, on 2012-01-12 02:52:29, said:

Remember the Shinkansen.  Just 127 minutes from Nagoya to the heart of the Tokyo gay scene.

and just 100 euros one way ...

[bubu]

next week i will be in tokyo. and then i will see how gay life in this big city looks like.

and at the end of january i will be in nagoya again!

[jaizan]

Here's some information:
Numbers are GPS co-ordinates, which give you the location in google maps.

24 Kaikan Sauna  35.689887,139.708773 My favourite sauna anywhere.

Obviously there are lots of gay bars in this area, which you can find easily.

If you want a paid "host", try the following, which is located upstairs opposite a convenience store.
King of Castle 35.690602,139.708841    PM me if you want other suggestions along these lines.

It doesn't take long to walk from the main Shinjuku station to the gay area, but remember the main Shinjuku station is enormous & take care to select the east entrance. Getting a compass from a 100 yen shop would be a good move.
Alternatively, Shinjuku Sanchome station puts you right on the edge of the gay area.

[Ijustwannateach]

Just by way of an update, my local sources in Japan inform me that there is a bit of a 'social order' thing going on with dance places (both straight and gay) in all the major cities.  Actually, weirdly, dance clubs have always been looked at as more 'immoral' somehow than 'ordinary' bars- I think it has something to do with regulations dating all the way back to the US postwar administrative period.  Anyway, there is some kind of crackdown on the vague excuse of 'drugs' and the police are putting a lot of pressure on these places.  'Normal' gay or straight bars (karaoke, pubs without dance floors, etc.) shouldn't be affected, though I am also hearing that some of the gay saunas (as opposed to normal public baths) are feeling the heat, so to speak.  Way to go when the economy is sinking already- and of course, since they are Japanese none of them will protest.

[Gaccha]

Ijustwannateach, on 2012-01-23 12:49:15, said:

Just by way of an update, my local sources in Japan inform me that there is a bit of a 'social order' thing going on with dance places (both straight and gay) in all the major cities.  Actually, weirdly, dance clubs have always been looked at as more 'immoral' somehow than 'ordinary' bars- I think it has something to do with regulations dating all the way back to the US postwar administrative period.  Anyway, there is some kind of crackdown on the vague excuse of 'drugs' and the police are putting a lot of pressure on these places.  'Normal' gay or straight bars (karaoke, pubs without dance floors, etc.) shouldn't be affected, though I am also hearing that some of the gay saunas (as opposed to normal public baths) are feeling the heat, so to speak.  Way to go when the economy is sinking already- and of course, since they are Japanese none of them will protest.

The myth of lack of protest and acquiesence in japan is a long-held one in the West. The bullet hole marks in the Tokyo University tower should have long put it to sleep. The myth was even extended by the laughable press reports of an orderly Japanese response to the tsunami.

For a good read on the astonishing stubborness of the Japanese in their resistance to government assertions of power, take a look at the decades long protests against the building of the Narita Airport. To this day, riot police are posted at the entrances and the place resembles a fortress.

Edited by Gaccha, 2012-01-27 23:55:07.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Thanks, Gaccha.  I feel pretty comfortable in commenting on Japanese people from very long non-Western experience.  Obviously I was exaggerating but the stereotype carries a big grain of truth.  Let's keep this thread on the gay topic.

[TheKeeNok]

What the hell are you guys talking about!  Homosexuality does not exist in Nippon!!  

[tombkk]

TheKeeNok, on 2012-01-29 19:02:17, said:

What the hell are you guys talking about!  Homosexuality does not exist in Nippon!!  

Why are you saying this? There is certainly a large and very open scene in Tokyo, as I know, and presumably in other cities.

[TheKeeNok]

tombkk, on 2012-01-29 19:40:09, said:

TheKeeNok, on 2012-01-29 19:02:17, said:

What the hell are you guys talking about!  Homosexuality does not exist in Nippon!!  

Why are you saying this? There is certainly a large and very open scene in Tokyo, as I know, and presumably in other cities.

Kidding man, I lived there for a few years!  OSAKA!!

[Gaccha]

TheKeeNok, on 2012-01-29 19:43:23, said:

tombkk, on 2012-01-29 19:40:09, said:

TheKeeNok, on 2012-01-29 19:02:17, said:

What the hell are you guys talking about!  Homosexuality does not exist in Nippon!!  

Why are you saying this? There is certainly a large and very open scene in Tokyo, as I know, and presumably in other cities.

Kidding man, I lived there for a few years!  OSAKA!!

KeeNok is mocking the common assertion by Japanese that there is no homosexuality in Japan. ...I would love to know how their claim would position itself against the various queerings of Japanese life: the tentacle sex fetish, the bottom pinching, and so on. I would want to know what are they trying to deny.

 Japanese boy showing human sexuality in anime outfit of bunny costume.jpg   128.51K   3 downloads
Fig. 1  A Japanese boy breaching the social norms of cross dressing, lingerie display, and wearing a bunny outfit. But he is not a homosexual under the official Japanese narrative.

Edited by Gaccha, 2012-01-30 20:25:31.