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[silentnine]

somewhat of an odd situation .
i had a GF in the Uk well before i came to thailand. we have/had a 7 year old daughter.
my daughter has lived with her mother since we split in a room rented from my mother in the UK. with my mother assiting her with the upbringing of our daughter.
2 years ago my daughter came to visit for 9 monhts and went to school here in thailand. then returned to the UK.
2 months ago my daughter came back to thailand again to visit , my mother also is here and my daughters mother is in the UK, the plan being she was staying for 4 months and we were going to home school here in thailand.
my ex was going to pay me 10,000bt per month from the UK to assist in the costs as the home school tutor is 13,000bt per month.
she is claiming working tax credits , family tax credits and child benefit for my daughter although she is here is thailand. she also earns around 100pounds per week on top of all her credits etc .. so a total of 250pounds per week incoem for here .. oh and she gets full housing benefit for her and my daugter so claims around 400pounds more for that from the local council for her rent... got to love the UK system !!

since my daughter arrived here in thailand her mother send one payment of 5000bt ... then nothing more .. nothing for xmas for her not even a card.
she has only called here around 5 times in 2 months and we have call logs of us trying ot call her on over 250 occasions with no answer.

i'm told that since she gianed her freedom after our daughter came to thailand she has gone off the rails.. non stop partying .. taking out loans .. not paying her rent even though the council paid it to her.. basicly spending every penny she has on booze. she has onlyu on occasion returned back to her rented room, spendign most of her time god knows where..
also reports now coming in she is 4 weeks pregnant from a older married man.
i'm not being mean or nasty if i say she is not all there .. (out to lunch/daft as a brush etc etc. ) she is very easily led (woild not even know who obama is or even the name of the UK prime minister) and i am making an assumption she has fallen into a new group of freinds who are leading her up the garden path and helping her spend any money she has whenever she has it. she is claiming her tax credits, child benefit still on the basis of our daughter being with her .. (no i'm not going to shop her as that does not help the situation)

this leaves me a problem ...there no way i can return my daughter to her at the end of the 4 months here .. there is no court arrangement of any sort for custody or visitation for either of us ..
it a very lenthy problem which i have only summarised.. so if you have a question ask away.  
am i abducting her if i do not send her back .. i have thought about contacting social services in the UK but there like nazis and do not like thailand (from experience they really do not like thailand as its a non hague country with a bad rep on child care)
i contacted a UK lawyer who tells me i can not get legal aid and Uk lawyer fees are extreme.
her mother is shwoing no interest at all in anything and on the few occasions we have spoken i'm met with empty promises , she spoke ot my daughter saying how much she missed her .. promised to phone but never does .followed by her disappearing for days on end
the worst times being when my daughter says why does my mummy not want me anymore

[silentnine]

quick addition ..
i ended up calling social services and spent the last 30 minutes talking to them
they can do nothing as there is no immediate concern .. not can they go out and access the situation as my daughter is not there .. ie waste of time just seeing mum as she could just say everythuign is fine and they have no power to look into things if there is not a child at risk

[Mario2008]

Contact the embassy and let them make a report to social services about your daughter returning to an unstable situation. (You could send your own report to Social Services by registered mail, also referrng to your phone call and pointing out that you have now formaly notified them of the situation. That makes it clear to them that they can expect legal action if they fal to do their job).

In the mean time, I would contact a citizens advice bureau and ask for information about getting custody over your daughter, (or to another relative of the child) now the mother appears to be unfit. That is difficult, as you need proof and also the child is cuurently not with her and thus not in immediate danger. The mother has time to clean up her act.

If that all is to no avail and you have to send your daughter back to a situation that you think is not right, contact your daughter's school to have them keep an eye on things.

[Mario2008]

1 off topic post deleted.

In this section we offer information and advise, don't discuss politics.

[Jangot]

I have to say that I am extremely sorry for your daughter.  It is the inocent who suffer.
And I am glad that I am not a UK tax payer.

[silentnine]

Mario2008, on 2012-01-24 20:27:39, said:

Contact the embassy and let them make a report to social services about your daughter returning to an unstable situation. (You could send your own report to Social Services by registered mail, also referrng to your phone call and pointing out that you have now formaly notified them of the situation. That makes it clear to them that they can expect legal action if they fal to do their job).

In the mean time, I would contact a citizens advice bureau and ask for information about getting custody over your daughter, (or to another relative of the child) now the mother appears to be unfit. That is difficult, as you need proof and also the child is cuurently not with her and thus not in immediate danger. The mother has time to clean up her act.

If that all is to no avail and you have to send your daughter back to a situation that you think is not right, contact your daughter's school to have them keep an eye on things.

the dilema is do we send her back though ..
it leaves us not knowing what to do for the best . to send her back to an unstable situation would be awefull and to keep her away from her mum would also not be good ...
one option that popped into my head was to offer my ex a job on our farm in thailand so i could keep an eye on it all .. but dont think that would go down so well with the mrs here is LOS
contacting the embassy might be a good option at least it will give me some coverage so they are aware in case she starts screaming abduction.. but not so sure they will show much interest
other things we have to look at is school as opposed to home learning whihc was a temp measure for 4 months .. wahtever happens this is going to end up in tears i'm sure.. just have to make sure that my daughter is safe

Edited by silentnine, 2012-01-24 20:41:30.

[Mario2008]

Legaly you have to send her back, or could be prosecutted for abduction etc, etc and be in a lot of trouble.

If she found her freedom, she might be willing to let your daughter stay longer with you or even permanently. Suggest that your daughter stay a few moths longer, she might agree. If in the mean time she loses the house because of not paying the rent, the situation will be more erious for social services to act and the mother might be willing to let your daughter stay longer with you out of fear of social services.

[silentnine]

where there is no court arrangement for custody is it abduction for me to keep her here ?
one thing i thought of .. is to document everything from now .. make the authorites aware etc ..
and if she (whihc i doubt she will) launchs any kind of legal action then i as other party then can get UK legal aid as the respondant .. whereas if i try to take the lead action i can't
of course i still hope she sorts her self out and have sent another pleading emial just aksing her to sort her self and her life out and get in touch .

[Mario2008]

You were not married to the mother, so the mothe will in all likelyhood have sole parental rights over the child. That is how it works in most countries, but you might have legitimized the child and be the legal fahter. But I don't know the psecifics of Uk law in this. Under the UK law and the European Convention on Human Rights you will at the least have a right to visit the child from time to time, as you had famlily live with the child.
It certainly can't hurt to try and find out who is/are the legal parents of the child and if you are the legal fahter of the child.

[silentnine]

Mario2008, on 2012-01-24 21:13:52, said:

You were not married to the mother, so the mothe will in all likelyhood have sole parental rights over the child. That is how it works in most countries, but you might have legitimized the child and be the legal fahter. But I don't know the psecifics of Uk law in this. Under the UK law and the European Convention on Human Rights you will at the least have a right to visit the child from time to time, as you had famlily live with the child.
It certainly can't hurt to try and find out who is/are the legal parents of the child and if you are the legal fahter of the child.

under UK law i am dad.. we have shared parental rights

[Mario2008]

That is important, as it confirms you have the same rights as the mother. But it is shared. You will have to change that to sole parental rights in order to keep the child. But if the mother is unft, it will automatically to you.

[MegaRanter]

Offer her the farm job, things will get interesting after that. Do you intend to pay her the 650 she currently earns? And can she move in with her current beau?

[silentnine]

MegaRanter, on 2012-01-24 21:46:01, said:

Offer her the farm job, things will get interesting after that. Do you intend to pay her the 650 she currently earns? And can she move in with her current beau?

i was being semi sarcastic .. i think 650bt per week would be ok though ,,, then again she'd need a work permit so that blows that idea
and with her benefits and earnings it more like 1400pounds per month shes gets .. and she could not even be bothered to get our daughter a card or present for xmas

[Pseudolus]

Personally, if I were you, I would shop her to the social, have your mum kick her out, and keep the child safe with you and if she wants her, let her prove she can take care of her. Sounds to me as if her new kid on the way has taken precedence as it might come with support  / relationship from the new lover so she is hedging her bets there. Try to make it all legal for sure, but its not kidnapping; its poor parenting from one parent and solid from the other.

[cdnvic]

I think you need to find a way to keep your daughter with you. If she's been abandoned by one parent it will be hard enough on her, but the second one sending her away would probably be very psycologically damaging.

[Daewoo]

I assume that, since there is no court ordered custody, you can decide between you who has custody...  between you and your ex-agree that you have sole custody and have her sign legal custody to you...

Keep it between your lawyers until after she has signed, because as soon as she signs custody to you in a court or you file in the court, she looses the child benefits from the government...  tell her you need her to sign it before you can enroll her in school or something, and that you have no intention of filling the documents...

You can be sure that as soon as she realises that she will loose her 'gravy train'  by giving you custody, she will want the child back...  without anything official you will soon be under pressure to send your daughter back to what appears to be a very bad environment...

Daewoo

[Mario2008]

Keep a good record of what you do for the child and what the mother does towards the child, to be able to show social services and the court if it comes to that. Also of the fact that she isn't paying any rent and that that is the reason your mother throws her out. I would have your mother send a few letters by registered mail, demanding payment, with later a final warning of being evicted if no rent is paid. It shows your mother was in the right and not helping your case to get your daughter.

[silentnine]

Mario2008, on 2012-01-25 08:29:31, said:

Keep a good record of what you do for the child and what the mother does towards the child, to be able to show social services and the court if it comes to that. Also of the fact that she isn't paying any rent and that that is the reason your mother throws her out. I would have your mother send a few letters by registered mail, demanding payment, with later a final warning of being evicted if no rent is paid. It shows your mother was in the right and not helping your case to get your daughter.

shes renting a room from my 26yr old daugther not my mother .(daughter from another previos ex who i was married to for many many years)
cdnvic pretty much sumarised my feelings i think .. it not that i want to take her away from her mum now , as i was very happy with the arrangemnt we had .. this would of been hopefully the begining of some sort of routine where she could of spent time here and in the UK ..
but i just cannot send her back to problems when there are so many unknowns .. my experiance of social services if they get involved , in the UK they have staff at the local office who think so little of thailand that they would support fostering as opposed to agreeing she'd be better in thailand
how i will manage financialy is another matter as an extra mouth to feed. extra visa's to try and figure out and the big one the school fees is going to be hard.
i've resorted to sending some a message to 2 of her freinds on facebook explaining the situation and asking if they can contact her to see if she is ok and telling them we are concened about her mental state and health and urge her to get in touch ..

[Mario2008]

A solution might be to get your daughter in the care of your older daughter. Than she can continue her old school, friends etc and stil contineu to visit you and also see her mother.

But all stands with what the mother wants (and if your older daughter is willing to take care of your youngest).

[silentnine]

Mario2008, on 2012-01-25 09:31:04, said:

A solution might be to get your daughter in the care of your older daughter. Than she can continue her old school, friends etc and stil contineu to visit you and also see her mother.

But all stands with what the mother wants (and if your older daughter is willing to take care of your youngest).

she works all the hours god sends and does not even want children of her own.
school. she was due to start a new school on her return to the uk
and even though her mothers actions are saying there is a problem and makes her abilty questionable shes denieing she has problems and then carrying on regardless

Edited by silentnine, 2012-01-25 09:44:51.

[FWIW]

Not much to add, but I would move away from emails and facebook.  Send registered letters (with a copy kept on file).  As far as possible make sure that they can only be signed for by your ex. Document everything.

[silentnine]

just over 2 weeks todays since we last heard from her mother. so 15 days since the last very breif phone call which we made to her where she said she told out daughter faithfull she would call back the next days for a video call ... no sign since ,, not returned to her rented room, not answering mobile .. 74 unanswered calls from usto the UK.. for all we know she could be 6ft under .. what a sorry state of affairs.
i've sought more advise elsewhere .. and there seems to be nothing we can do .. jsut being told either send her back and hope for the best .. or keep her here and just see what mum does.
so tempted today to call the tax credits, child beneift & council and inform them she is still claiming for our daughter .. seems so unfair she gets all that money ... but that would be too much like sour grapes so i'll try not to lower myself  to that level..

[Mario2008]

A good relationship bewteen you and the mother might is beneficail for your daughter. It might not be wise to start a war at this moment.

As a concerend ex-husband and fahter of your child, you could inquire with the British police as to the well being of your daughters mother. (and make a note of it in your diary)

[PattayaParent]

silentnine, on 2012-01-25 09:22:31, said:

shes renting a room from my 26yr old daugther not my mother

Quote

from OP

my daughter has lived with her mother since we split in a room rented from my mother in the UK. with my mother assiting her with the upbringing of our daughter

Get your story straight man!!

Your mother should apply to the local council to have the rent paid directly to her (mother / daughter whoever) with evidence of unpaid rent. That should dry up some of the ex's source of funds.

Edited by PattayaParent, 2012-01-27 10:51:40.

[champken]

I would be very carefull about shopping her to the benefits people, although you could threaten her with it, she would then probably turn round and say that you refused to send your daughter back.

Some how, you have got to speak with her, maybe get somebody in the UK to sit her down and explain everything and that might be the time to remind her that the benefits people would be non too happy with her falsly claiming benefits, and yes you are right about social services, a complete waste of space in my opinion and definately not man friendly when it comes to childrens welfare concerns, add to that the fact you are living in Thailand, then all the wrong assumptions would be made.....good luck anyway