107 replies to this topic
Posted 2012-01-30 23:27:43
 wana, on 2012-01-30 23:09:50, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-30 23:06:48, said:
wana, on 2012-01-30 22:41:20, said:
theres a differnce between importing a bike and choosing one in your choice of colours with a 3 warranty at any dealer  but you were just working on yer post count werrent ya 
But if you're talking about CB400's and NC700's neither are sold by Honda in Thailand, so I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make?
is there no more windows to lick ? 
Huh? 
Posted 2012-01-31 00:05:31
Beardog, on 2012-01-30 21:33:14, said:
This bike looks like a total bust To expensive way less HP than it should have for a 700 & it weighs a ton to boot
6500 RPMS doesn't exactly make me excited when you can get a 400 super 4 that is less weight way more RPMS
& cooks on the open road or off the line. They might as well make this bike automatic only to insure 100% buzzkill.
Here is Specs of a CB 400 super 4 (pretty much any year till 2012)
Power: 52.29 HP 38.2 kW @ 11,000 RPM
Dry weight: 170 KG 374.8 LBS.
Torque: 38.00 Nm (3.9 kgf-m or 28.0 ft.lbs) @ 9500 RPM (courtesy of Honda's homepage)
And 198 kg wet. Granted that is still 26 kg less than the NC700's claimed weight, but it is also way down on torque. The claimed torque for the NC700 is 44 ft-lb; 157% of the CB400's.. According to Motorcycle.com'sroad test, that 42 is Versys peak torque (although dyno's I've googled have it the same 44 as the NC700); I'd assume acceleration between the two should be fairly similar until the Versys got really spun out past 7000 RPM or so (when it surpassed the peak HP of the NC700).
Also the 6500 RPM everyone is talking about is the redline; rev limiter doesn't kick in until 8000.
Posted 2012-01-31 10:36:08
Still not worth the extra expense & weight. & I would bet even with the minor amounts of difference I could blow the doors off this dog with fleas with a 2006 400 super. I don't see the top end of the 700 to be significant in the top end whatsoever & a 4 inline would be so much faster to tach up to speed than a redline of 8000.That & the 400's would be way more desirable here in Thailand to be able to zip in & out of traffic & most likely the weight is distributed better. If I was getting a big bike it would be at least a 1000cc. anyway I have had many 750's & they are just a tad to small for serious road touring {for my taste}(which I don't do at all in Thailand) But I am sure someone will buy this bike & like it. Not what I would buy as it doesn't offer the right size or HP for the money spent.I don't think if they pitched it at 185,000 baht I would be a taker. The bike is butt ugly! And the redline is actually about 13,000 on the 400 super before the rev limiter kicks in. I think my older 1980 550 four would smoke the 700.
Edited by Beardog, 2012-01-31 10:38:35.
Posted 2012-01-31 12:02:50
In all fairness, I expect this bike will have a small niche market in European cities where it could be a good messenger / delivery vehicle... What in the UK they call a "pizza bike"
Posted 2012-01-31 14:41:36
Beardog, on 2012-01-31 10:36:08, said:
Still not worth the extra expense & weight. & I would bet even with the minor amounts of difference I could blow the doors off this dog with fleas with a 2006 400 super. I don't see the top end of the 700 to be significant in the top end whatsoever & a 4 inline would be so much faster to tach up to speed than a redline of 8000.That & the 400's would be way more desirable here in Thailand to be able to zip in & out of traffic & most likely the weight is distributed better. If I was getting a big bike it would be at least a 1000cc. anyway I have had many 750's & they are just a tad to small for serious road touring {for my taste}(which I don't do at all in Thailand) But I am sure someone will buy this bike & like it. Not what I would buy as it doesn't offer the right size or HP for the money spent.I don't think if they pitched it at 185,000 baht I would be a taker. The bike is butt ugly! And the redline is actually about 13,000 on the 400 super before the rev limiter kicks in. I think my older 1980 550 four would smoke the 700.
I don't have much experience with the CB400 series, but the one time that I did ride with one it did not impress; even bigbikebkk commented on how it wasn't much or any better than the stock Ninjas we were on.
You may be right about the 400 being more flicakble; there's a lot of spinning mass fairly high in the air compared to the nearly horizontal layout of the NC700.
As far as the road touring; there's a LOT of people who tour on bikes with a lot less than the HP you're talking about without incident. There is one famous rider (cptslash?) who has traveled the width and breadth of the Kingdom. Granted most of us wouldn't want to do that on a Phantom, but I call that real road touring...
Posted 2012-01-31 15:39:38
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 12:02:50, said:
What in the UK they call a "pizza bike"
A pizza bike would be a 50cc moped. This is more the type of thing a courier or commuter would use. While I think the Versys will be better overall, I bet the NC700x will be much better in traffic. The Versys is a bit too top heavy and has a poor turning radius for Thai traffic jams. I find my F650gs is much easier to ride in the city due to the low center of gravity and sharp turning circle (which should be similar to the NC700x). Although out of the city I would rather have the power and higher RPMs of the Versys (unless I was planing off road/gravel tracks).
Posted 2012-01-31 16:02:12
madjbs, on 2012-01-31 15:39:38, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 12:02:50, said:
What in the UK they call a "pizza bike"
A pizza bike would be a 50cc moped. This is more the type of thing a courier or commuter would use. While I think the Versys will be better overall, I bet the NC700x will be much better in traffic. The Versys is a bit too top heavy and has a poor turning radius for Thai traffic jams.
... then you didn't ride it right
The V is just fine for traffic, turning radius is great. Never ridden a F650 GS (would like to actually) but shouldn't it have a bigger turning radius thanks to that larger front wheel?
I won't judge the NC700X until it's out. Although I am guessing this bike is not for me, as I like to keep the Versys above 7k RPM pretty much all times, and I find it a bit weak WRT top speed. And I am much enjoying the Versys suspension so going back from that wouldn't be an option. I like the NC700X design, looks nice to me.
Posted 2012-01-31 16:18:26
nikster, on 2012-01-31 16:02:12, said:
madjbs, on 2012-01-31 15:39:38, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 12:02:50, said:
What in the UK they call a "pizza bike"
A pizza bike would be a 50cc moped. This is more the type of thing a courier or commuter would use. While I think the Versys will be better overall, I bet the NC700x will be much better in traffic. The Versys is a bit too top heavy and has a poor turning radius for Thai traffic jams.
... then you didn't ride it right
The V is just fine for traffic, turning radius is great. Never ridden a F650 GS (would like to actually) but shouldn't it have a bigger turning radius thanks to that larger front wheel?
I agree, the Versys is fine for traffic, but, the F650gs is better due to the low center of gravity and the fact you can physically turn the handle bars further side to side. I rode both over the last few days so a comparison was easy to make. If the NC700 has a low CoG due to the underseat fuel tank (like the f650) etc.. then I imagine it will be similarly easy to ride in heavy and tight traffic.
Edited by madjbs, 2012-01-31 16:20:44.
Posted 2012-01-31 17:16:43
madjbs, on 2012-01-31 15:39:38, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 12:02:50, said:
What in the UK they call a "pizza bike"
A pizza bike would be a 50cc moped. This is more the type of thing a courier or commuter would use. While I think the Versys will be better overall, I bet the NC700x will be much better in traffic. The Versys is a bit too top heavy and has a poor turning radius for Thai traffic jams. I find my F650gs is much easier to ride in the city due to the low center of gravity and sharp turning circle (which should be similar to the NC700x). Although out of the city I would rather have the power and higher RPMs of the Versys (unless I was planing off road/gravel tracks).
Hmmm, I dunno mate. I'm certainly not a Brit but it was on a UK forum that I heard the Versys described as a "pizza bike" and I've noticed in Europe that big bikes are often used for messengers and deliveries.
I've ridden the F800GS which is pretty similar to the F650GS and I didn't find that the steering, lock to lock was any greater than that of the Versys. True the BMW has lower center of gravity, which I suppose might be handy in tight traffic, but I don't think many of us buy these bikes primarily to negotiate Bangkok traffic
The NC700 is big and heavy, both of which will make it a chore to get through heavy traffic. If commuting in traffic is a primary function then a cheap little scooter would be a better choice IMO.
Posted 2012-01-31 17:48:34
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 17:16:43, said:
I've ridden the F800GS which is pretty similar to the F650GS and I didn't find that the steering, lock to lock was any greater than that of the Versys. True the BMW has lower center of gravity, which I suppose might be handy in tight traffic, but I don't think many of us buy these bikes primarily to negotiate Bangkok traffic
The NC700 is big and heavy, both of which will make it a chore to get through heavy traffic. If commuting in traffic is a primary function then a cheap little scooter would be a better choice IMO.
Weight between Versys and NC700 isn't significant different. So there is the lower center of gravity which may makes the NC700 better in tight traffic. And the torque, and the storage in front, ... I sure would prefer the NC700 for daily city commuting.
Some people here have problems to understand that other people want to ride their bike every day and to every occasion (not only for touring at the weekends or wannabe races). And yes, small shopping tours to the next supermarket and commuting to work are part of this. Why not? Maybe these people are the real riders, not the weekend drivers who afterwards need to talk about every kilometer they have driven 
Posted 2012-01-31 18:01:01
wantan, on 2012-01-31 17:48:34, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 17:16:43, said:
I've ridden the F800GS which is pretty similar to the F650GS and I didn't find that the steering, lock to lock was any greater than that of the Versys. True the BMW has lower center of gravity, which I suppose might be handy in tight traffic, but I don't think many of us buy these bikes primarily to negotiate Bangkok traffic
The NC700 is big and heavy, both of which will make it a chore to get through heavy traffic. If commuting in traffic is a primary function then a cheap little scooter would be a better choice IMO.
Weight between Versys and NC700 isn't significant different. So there is the lower center of gravity which may makes the NC700 better in tight traffic. And the torque, and the storage in front, ... I sure would prefer the NC700 for daily city commuting.
Some people here have problems to understand that other people want to ride their bike every day and to every occasion (not only for touring at the weekends or wannabe races). And yes, small shopping tours to the next supermarket and commuting to work are part of this. Why not? Maybe these people are the real riders, not the weekend drivers who afterwards need to talk about every kilometer they have driven
It doesn't surprise me at all that a scooter jockey like you would prefer a NC700 over a real motorcycle.
You mention the similar weight between the Versys and NC700 but you forget to mention the big difference in horsepower.
Lower CoG is probably helpful for inexperienced riders like you who would probably drop a real bike at the first sign of trouble and then blame a car for making you crash 
By the way, I realize English must not be your first language, but FYI, cars are Driven, bikes are Ridden. Get it? 
Posted 2012-01-31 19:06:02
IMO new bike releases like this from Honda will just continue to reduce their market share in the bike segment and allow dedicated bike companies like KTM, Ducati, Triumph etc. to prosper.
People looking for a cheap and easy commute to work won't bother spending 6000 pounds (or whatever) on this POS. They'll buy their countries equivalent to a PCX 125 and pay a lot less for it and as a bonus they'll be able to rip through the traffic and get better mileage. People with a real interest in bikes (big or small) will laugh at this thing and rightly so.
So I guess they're left with the people who want something that looks like a real bike but really just gets decent (but not astounding) mileage. I'm really not sure how big that market is, but I guess we'll find out. Large scooters haven't done particularly well in the past and I don't see this bike changing that.
Posted 2012-01-31 19:25:07
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 18:01:01, said:
wantan, on 2012-01-31 17:48:34, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 17:16:43, said:
I've ridden the F800GS which is pretty similar to the F650GS and I didn't find that the steering, lock to lock was any greater than that of the Versys. True the BMW has lower center of gravity, which I suppose might be handy in tight traffic, but I don't think many of us buy these bikes primarily to negotiate Bangkok traffic
The NC700 is big and heavy, both of which will make it a chore to get through heavy traffic. If commuting in traffic is a primary function then a cheap little scooter would be a better choice IMO.
Weight between Versys and NC700 isn't significant different. So there is the lower center of gravity which may makes the NC700 better in tight traffic. And the torque, and the storage in front, ... I sure would prefer the NC700 for daily city commuting.
Some people here have problems to understand that other people want to ride their bike every day and to every occasion (not only for touring at the weekends or wannabe races). And yes, small shopping tours to the next supermarket and commuting to work are part of this. Why not? Maybe these people are the real riders, not the weekend drivers who afterwards need to talk about every kilometer they have driven
It doesn't surprise me at all that a scooter jockey like you would prefer a NC700 over a real motorcycle.
You mention the similar weight between the Versys and NC700 but you forget to mention the big difference in horsepower.
Lower CoG is probably helpful for inexperienced riders like you who would probably drop a real bike at the first sign of trouble and then blame a car for making you crash
By the way, I realize English must not be your first language, but FYI, cars are Driven, bikes are Ridden. Get it?
I am glad that English is YOUR first language so we have a little chance to understand YOU
Who needs all this horsepower and power/weight ratio? I do not need it to strengthen my ego. But a handy bike with enough torque and hopefully a good built-in theft protection could be very interesting for people who really use their bikes in daily life.
Posted 2012-01-31 19:55:04
Why are people so defensive? Seems silly that just because you own a certain model you refuse to accept that another model might be better in certain areas or for different activities. Claiming that it is better only for inexperienced riders or people who can't ride properly is quite arrogant in my opinion and stinks of the attitude certain groups of sports bike riders have in the UK.
Posted 2012-01-31 20:14:48
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 17:16:43, said:
madjbs, on 2012-01-31 15:39:38, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 12:02:50, said:
What in the UK they call a "pizza bike"
A pizza bike would be a 50cc moped. This is more the type of thing a courier or commuter would use. While I think the Versys will be better overall, I bet the NC700x will be much better in traffic. The Versys is a bit too top heavy and has a poor turning radius for Thai traffic jams. I find my F650gs is much easier to ride in the city due to the low center of gravity and sharp turning circle (which should be similar to the NC700x). Although out of the city I would rather have the power and higher RPMs of the Versys (unless I was planing off road/gravel tracks).
Hmmm, I dunno mate. I'm certainly not a Brit but it was on a UK forum that I heard the Versys described as a "pizza bike" and I've noticed in Europe that big bikes are often used for messengers and deliveries.
I've ridden the F800GS which is pretty similar to the F650GS and I didn't find that the steering, lock to lock was any greater than that of the Versys. True the BMW has lower center of gravity, which I suppose might be handy in tight traffic, but I don't think many of us buy these bikes primarily to negotiate Bangkok traffic
The NC700 is big and heavy, both of which will make it a chore to get through heavy traffic. If commuting in traffic is a primary function then a cheap little scooter would be a better choice IMO.
Pizza delivery riders in the UK are usually teenagers doing an evening job. They usually do not have a bike license and therefore are restriced to a 50cc or 125cc depending on age. I have certainly never seen one on a proper bike. Couriers on the other hand do use proper bikes (ER-5, CB500 usually etc..).
As for the NC700X. I think it would be a good bike for someone in Bangkok who uses it to commute during the week but still wanted to be able to drive out and tour on the weekends. I just did a 45 min commute through very heavy traffic on my F650 and in my opinion the Versys would have been a bit more of a handful and would have taken me quite a bit longer. If the NC700x will be any better we will have to just wait and see. Why write it off before (if) it even comes, that is just silly? The F650 copes well with the traffic and commutes but is not big or powerful for my liking out on the open road. The NC700x hopefully might be good in the traffic while being fairly good out on tour, at least better than the F650(although still not as good as the Versys). If it meets that criteria then in my opinion it could be quite a popular bike with some people.
Edited by madjbs, 2012-01-31 20:20:45.
Posted 2012-01-31 20:24:58
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 18:01:01, said:
wantan, on 2012-01-31 17:48:34, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 17:16:43, said:
I've ridden the F800GS which is pretty similar to the F650GS and I didn't find that the steering, lock to lock was any greater than that of the Versys. True the BMW has lower center of gravity, which I suppose might be handy in tight traffic, but I don't think many of us buy these bikes primarily to negotiate Bangkok traffic
The NC700 is big and heavy, both of which will make it a chore to get through heavy traffic. If commuting in traffic is a primary function then a cheap little scooter would be a better choice IMO.
Weight between Versys and NC700 isn't significant different. So there is the lower center of gravity which may makes the NC700 better in tight traffic. And the torque, and the storage in front, ... I sure would prefer the NC700 for daily city commuting.
Some people here have problems to understand that other people want to ride their bike every day and to every occasion (not only for touring at the weekends or wannabe races). And yes, small shopping tours to the next supermarket and commuting to work are part of this. Why not? Maybe these people are the real riders, not the weekend drivers who afterwards need to talk about every kilometer they have driven
It doesn't surprise me at all that a scooter jockey like you would prefer a NC700 over a real motorcycle.
You mention the similar weight between the Versys and NC700 but you forget to mention the big difference in horsepower.
Lower CoG is probably helpful for inexperienced riders like you who would probably drop a real bike at the first sign of trouble and then blame a car for making you crash
By the way, I realize English must not be your first language, but FYI, cars are Driven, bikes are Ridden. Get it?
Hmm...all I hear is this:
Posted 2012-01-31 21:20:29
Sure let's wait and see. I suspect an er6n will be better in traffic, more fun at the weekends, quicker, better at the track and certainly better looking. In Thailand it will also have the added benefit of being cheaper to buy and service. But each to their own I guess.
Posted 2012-01-31 21:32:54
True but the er6n is in a different segment, it's no good if your tours at the weekend involve a bit of light dirt! At the end of the day, whatever bike you get is going to be a compromise to a certain extent, which areas you are willing to compromise on will depend on the individual rider.
Posted 2012-01-31 22:39:53
JonnyF, on 2012-01-31 21:20:29, said:
Sure let's wait and see. I suspect an er6n will be better in traffic, more fun at the weekends, quicker, better at the track and certainly better looking. In Thailand it will also have the added benefit of being cheaper to buy and service. But each to their own I guess.
why will the er6 be cheaper to buy and service???????
Posted 2012-01-31 22:50:01
thaicbr, on 2012-01-31 22:39:53, said:
JonnyF, on 2012-01-31 21:20:29, said:
Sure let's wait and see. I suspect an er6n will be better in traffic, more fun at the weekends, quicker, better at the track and certainly better looking. In Thailand it will also have the added benefit of being cheaper to buy and service. But each to their own I guess.
why will the er6 be cheaper to buy and service???????
Cuz it's made in Thailand while the NC700 will be an overpriced import 
Posted 2012-01-31 23:00:21
dave_boo, on 2012-01-31 14:41:36, said:
Beardog, on 2012-01-31 10:36:08, said:
Still not worth the extra expense & weight. & I would bet even with the minor amounts of difference I could blow the doors off this dog with fleas with a 2006 400 super. I don't see the top end of the 700 to be significant in the top end whatsoever & a 4 inline would be so much faster to tach up to speed than a redline of 8000.That & the 400's would be way more desirable here in Thailand to be able to zip in & out of traffic & most likely the weight is distributed better. If I was getting a big bike it would be at least a 1000cc. anyway I have had many 750's & they are just a tad to small for serious road touring {for my taste}(which I don't do at all in Thailand) But I am sure someone will buy this bike & like it. Not what I would buy as it doesn't offer the right size or HP for the money spent.I don't think if they pitched it at 185,000 baht I would be a taker. The bike is butt ugly! And the redline is actually about 13,000 on the 400 super before the rev limiter kicks in. I think my older 1980 550 four would smoke the 700.
I don't have much experience with the CB400 series, but the one time that I did ride with one it did not impress; even bigbikebkk commented on how it wasn't much or any better than the stock Ninjas we were on.
You may be right about the 400 being more flicakble; there's a lot of spinning mass fairly high in the air compared to the nearly horizontal layout of the NC700.
As far as the road touring; there's a LOT of people who tour on bikes with a lot less than the HP you're talking about without incident. There is one famous rider (cptslash?) who has traveled the width and breadth of the Kingdom. Granted most of us wouldn't want to do that on a Phantom, but I call that real road touring...
My road bike were 1000 Kawasaki 1100 Suzuki Honda 1500 & an 1800. In thee U.S you can drive for days. I have a Yamaha
Nuevo for a get around & while it runs good it sucks. 52 Hp minimum this time & it is a little small But anything up here short of a high cc. bike is going to seem slow. I don't know but this new Honda 700 looks like a dog with flees, And it looks like it would be resold in the states for 1/2 the price within 2 years. Just not impressive at all. I would opt for a ninga & lower it or an ern6 lowered to my height way over this s700 scooter. It reminds me of a dressed up 600 silver wing Put Put. If I was back in the states (which I don't intend to be) I would score a Ducati monster. In Pattaya it would be a death wish.I still have my 1000 kawa in Sanfrancisco at a buddies house I keep up on the reg. & use when I get home. Joe's 1800 is just to heavy (for anyone) I never had a 400 but had a 500, 550, & a 750 super 4 & they all give super quick response when you put the hammer down.
Posted 2012-01-31 23:09:18
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 22:50:01, said:
thaicbr, on 2012-01-31 22:39:53, said:
JonnyF, on 2012-01-31 21:20:29, said:
Sure let's wait and see. I suspect an er6n will be better in traffic, more fun at the weekends, quicker, better at the track and certainly better looking. In Thailand it will also have the added benefit of being cheaper to buy and service. But each to their own I guess.
why will the er6 be cheaper to buy and service???????
Cuz it's made in Thailand while the NC700 will be an overpriced import
Nah not biting... Honda will not release a bike into a market were they are perceived as number 1 and not compete on a similar bike..eg twin pot 650 Er6 and twin pot 700 Nc700s.
I reckon it will come in at least 30,000b lower than the Er6.
Posted 2012-01-31 23:20:23
thaicbr, on 2012-01-31 23:09:18, said:
BigBikeBKK, on 2012-01-31 22:50:01, said:
thaicbr, on 2012-01-31 22:39:53, said:
JonnyF, on 2012-01-31 21:20:29, said:
Sure let's wait and see. I suspect an er6n will be better in traffic, more fun at the weekends, quicker, better at the track and certainly better looking. In Thailand it will also have the added benefit of being cheaper to buy and service. But each to their own I guess.
why will the er6 be cheaper to buy and service???????
Cuz it's made in Thailand while the NC700 will be an overpriced import
Nah not biting... Honda will not release a bike into a market were they are perceived as number 1 and not compete on a similar bike..eg twin pot 650 Er6 and twin pot 700 Nc700s.
I reckon it will come in at least 30,000b lower than the Er6.
Time will tell Allan, but as of today the NC700 is NOT manufactured in Thailand and my friend who is a manager at the Lad Krabang Honda motorcycle factory tell me there are no plans to manufacture it there...
So, unless they're going to start secretly cranking them out at the Honda car factory up in Ayutthaya the NC700, if it's even sold in Thailand, will be an import, and there's no way it can possibly compete with Kawasaki on price.
Personally I rather doubt it will even be offered at the Honda Big Wing Showroom as I don't believe there's any demand for it in Thailand.
The Thais love supersports, big cruisers and big touring bikes. To that end, I expect the Big Wing showroom will start off offering the CBR1000RR, perhaps the Honda Shadow, VTX, or Valkyrie, and of course, the Goldwing.
About dam_n time Honda got into the big bike scene here in Thailand!
Happy Trails!
T
Posted 2012-01-31 23:49:27
With luck..tomorro will tell and that's what Brian's on about with BIG NEWS at the BKK bike festival a complete range of affordable bikes from the Cbr250 up through the range.
But i'm not holding my breath 
Edit Thai's with OODDLES OF MONEY ' The Thais love supersports, big cruisers and big touring bikes.'
The rest can only hope. Dont forget there were over 5,000 Cbr250's sold.
Edited by thaicbr, 2012-01-31 23:52:04.
Posted 2012-01-31 23:51:20
I can't see it being sold here either unless it is going to be cheaper than the Versys and therefore manufactured here or somewhere which allows it to be imported for a reasonable price.
Edited by madjbs, 2012-01-31 23:52:04.
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