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[tvgrus]

axel2001, on 2012-02-04 09:03:42, said:

Meanwhile, Lanta-tour paid all bills to thai hotels.

This is money from VTB biggest russian gov bank. Forced to pay before Putin elections. Lanta is a broke.

[gregb]

FOODLOVER, on 2012-02-04 09:23:12, said:

axel2001, on 2012-02-04 09:03:42, said:

Meanwhile, Lanta-tour paid all bills to thai hotels.

If the manager of the Hotel would have simply accommodated the guest, but nooooooo. Now have poop for PR. Will never stay at Hotel St. Nisa as well.

Are you implying that Nisa is actually allowed to run a hotel? God help us all. No wonder the hospitality industry is in the state it is in. If anyone knows where that is please tell me so I will know where to avoid.

I prefer to give my business to people who actually take responsibility for the problems they create. Certainly neither of the hotels mentioned in the article will ever be seeing business from me.

[pattayadingo]

Travel Insurance ring any bells? Or do Russians not have that facility?

[KeyserSoze01]

Jingthing, on 2012-02-03 15:06:18, said:

I think that is disgusting and outrageous behavior and unworthy of any ethical business operation.

So, it's business as usual then.

[tvgrus]

Russian "Lanta" back from nowhere. Starts payments with gov's money. But bussianes is dead. No chance to give this money back to Gov's...

Edited by tvgrus, 2012-02-07 18:22:46.

[transam]

pattayadingo, on 2012-02-04 18:10:48, said:

Travel Insurance ring any bells? Or do Russians not have that facility?

Eeeeeeer.... No. But they have lots of cabbages.

[yougivemebaby]

Any updates? Are the Russians going to colonize walking street?

[tvgrus]

Everybody going home WS is all yours! )

[yougivemebaby]

tvgrus, on 2012-02-08 23:41:34, said:

Everybody going home WS is all yours! )

Go throw some rotten cabbages and eggs at the people that left you stranded there..

[Nisa]

gregb, on 2012-02-04 17:59:13, said:

FOODLOVER, on 2012-02-04 09:23:12, said:

axel2001, on 2012-02-04 09:03:42, said:

Meanwhile, Lanta-tour paid all bills to thai hotels.

If the manager of the Hotel would have simply accommodated the guest, but nooooooo. Now have poop for PR. Will never stay at Hotel St. Nisa as well.

Are you implying that Nisa is actually allowed to run a hotel? God help us all. No wonder the hospitality industry is in the state it is in. If anyone knows where that is please tell me so I will know where to avoid.

I prefer to give my business to people who actually take responsibility for the problems they create. Certainly neither of the hotels mentioned in the article will ever be seeing business from me.

A tour company asks for credit, as it has done for 12-years, but doesn't disclose it is in serious financial problems and could face shut down at any moment ... Yet this is the hotel's problems.  

Your continued thinking that the hotel should take responsibility because they granted this company credit but then should the same logic apply to the customers of the tour company. Should they have not done their homework and gotten travel insurance and be blamed themselves for choosing a failing tour company?

I guess you believe that the 1,000+ people who have paid for hotel and airfare through this tour agency should be able to still go on their trips at the expense of the airlines and hotels.

You seem to assign responsibility in a very strange way. It is clear the tour company is the one who screwed their customers and vendors. Secondly, people are ultimately responsible for themselves which includes being prepared for emergencies ... especially ones like this that are not uncommon in Russia these last years ... if you travel without travel insurance and don't have access to funds in case of an emergency then you need to only look in the mirror to see who is at fault and not blame a foreign business for not providing you free services.

Your mind is in some kind of ideological world as opposed to the real world where hotels need to be paid and airlines don't fly people for free ... in other words people get stranded when tour companies collapse and there is no insurance or bond by the tour company or their government to cover their debts. This is not only legal but common practice. One only needs to read the news to see this is the case time and time again ... especially with Russian tour companies but lets keep blaming the Thai hotel because it make sense in fantasy land.

I'm am not saying the hotel acted properly with treatment of the guests but there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with demanding payment for services rendered or kicking those out who refuse to pay or decided to go overseas with no access to even a small amount of emergency funds. A hotel is a business and not the Red Cross. These were people who could afford to go on an overseas trip and not poor starving kids from Africa smuggled into Thailand.

Edited by Nisa, 2012-02-10 08:45:36.

[pastitche]

kujirasan, on 2012-02-02 09:15:50, said:

Russian rudeness in legendary and exemplary, and that perception has enormous effect on people dealing with Russians, in 1941, French Prisoner of War in Poland rioted and large number were shot by German guards, they refused to eat on the same table with Russians, which were mainly high ranking officers, the French complained that is like eating with pigs, the destruction of upper classes during revolution left the country with only peasants, the etiquette and conventional code of conducts, table manners etc went extinct, if any one  has had a chance coming across Russian communities that had left Russian during Revolution, in Canada , France etc will find the difference, recently the Russian ministry of education has decided to teach etiquette in schools, as well in Russian itself the Government is referred to as KLEPTOCRACY ,  collapses of this sort are common occurrence. Peter the Great, was well know for stealing anything that wasn’t bolted to the floor while staying in Europe (Holland) , On the other side Thai hoteliers are not know for generosity,  or charity, once they have lousy customer like Russians, this type of reaction is not unusual. Unless the Thai tourist authority and police implement same policy as for Angolans, and designate specific hotels and condition for them, this type of disaster will occur incessantly.

Well I'll have to go check my history but I seem to remember that the French Revolution took place a century or more before Russia's and that all those tumbrils took the aristocracy (including the king) to meet Madame La Guillotine.

Is your point that in some way European table manners are a sign of breeding? Or are you suggesting that societies with different dining customs are essentially inferior to the European-American one? They, in themselves vary too - Americans frequently eat only with their fork and that in the wrong hand, Italians dip bread in their soups and sauces.....

Since the Russian revolution was early last century, when and where did you meet these groups of refugees with personal memories of pre-revolution times?

A purely personal story; as a student I had a flatmate who was African. He used to pare his fingernails very short with a razor blade and when I asked him why he explained that at home he ate with his hands so it was for hygiene. There is no right or wrong etiquette; if you are European your mediaeval ancestors (assuming that they were privileged enough not to live as peasants in daub and wattle huts) did not shrink from eating in a way which would make someone as sensitive as you appalled.

I suggest that you look at the etymology of "trencherman" which has evolved to mean someone with a healthy appetite

[z12]

Considering the cold weather, the russians should be happy to be stuck there.

Edited by z12, 2012-02-11 00:47:31.

[FOODLOVER]

Nisa, on 2012-02-10 08:36:53, said:

gregb, on 2012-02-04 17:59:13, said:

FOODLOVER, on 2012-02-04 09:23:12, said:

axel2001, on 2012-02-04 09:03:42, said:

Meanwhile, Lanta-tour paid all bills to thai hotels.

If the manager of the Hotel would have simply accommodated the guest, but nooooooo. Now have poop for PR. Will never stay at Hotel St. Nisa as well.

Are you implying that Nisa is actually allowed to run a hotel? God help us all. No wonder the hospitality industry is in the state it is in. If anyone knows where that is please tell me so I will know where to avoid.

I prefer to give my business to people who actually take responsibility for the problems they create. Certainly neither of the hotels mentioned in the article will ever be seeing business from me.

A tour company asks for credit, as it has done for 12-years, but doesn't disclose it is in serious financial problems and could face shut down at any moment ... Yet this is the hotel's problems.  

Your continued thinking that the hotel should take responsibility because they granted this company credit but then should the same logic apply to the customers of the tour company. Should they have not done their homework and gotten travel insurance and be blamed themselves for choosing a failing tour company?

I guess you believe that the 1,000+ people who have paid for hotel and airfare through this tour agency should be able to still go on their trips at the expense of the airlines and hotels.

You seem to assign responsibility in a very strange way. It is clear the tour company is the one who screwed their customers and vendors. Secondly, people are ultimately responsible for themselves which includes being prepared for emergencies ... especially ones like this that are not uncommon in Russia these last years ... if you travel without travel insurance and don't have access to funds in case of an emergency then you need to only look in the mirror to see who is at fault and not blame a foreign business for not providing you free services.

Your mind is in some kind of ideological world as opposed to the real world where hotels need to be paid and airlines don't fly people for free ... in other words people get stranded when tour companies collapse and there is no insurance or bond by the tour company or their government to cover their debts. This is not only legal but common practice. One only needs to read the news to see this is the case time and time again ... especially with Russian tour companies but lets keep blaming the Thai hotel because it make sense in fantasy land.

I'm am not saying the hotel acted properly with treatment of the guests but there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with demanding payment for services rendered or kicking those out who refuse to pay or decided to go overseas with no access to even a small amount of emergency funds. A hotel is a business and not the Red Cross. These were people who could afford to go on an overseas trip and not poor starving kids from Africa smuggled into Thailand.

Nothing wrong with demanding payment from the company that you have a contract with but throwing the innocents on the streets in a foreign country, unconscionable.

[Nisa]

FOODLOVER, on 2012-02-11 15:18:18, said:

Nisa, on 2012-02-10 08:36:53, said:

gregb, on 2012-02-04 17:59:13, said:

FOODLOVER, on 2012-02-04 09:23:12, said:

If the manager of the Hotel would have simply accommodated the guest, but nooooooo. Now have poop for PR. Will never stay at Hotel St. Nisa as well.

Are you implying that Nisa is actually allowed to run a hotel? God help us all. No wonder the hospitality industry is in the state it is in. If anyone knows where that is please tell me so I will know where to avoid.

I prefer to give my business to people who actually take responsibility for the problems they create. Certainly neither of the hotels mentioned in the article will ever be seeing business from me.

A tour company asks for credit, as it has done for 12-years, but doesn't disclose it is in serious financial problems and could face shut down at any moment ... Yet this is the hotel's problems.  

Your continued thinking that the hotel should take responsibility because they granted this company credit but then should the same logic apply to the customers of the tour company. Should they have not done their homework and gotten travel insurance and be blamed themselves for choosing a failing tour company?

I guess you believe that the 1,000+ people who have paid for hotel and airfare through this tour agency should be able to still go on their trips at the expense of the airlines and hotels.

You seem to assign responsibility in a very strange way. It is clear the tour company is the one who screwed their customers and vendors. Secondly, people are ultimately responsible for themselves which includes being prepared for emergencies ... especially ones like this that are not uncommon in Russia these last years ... if you travel without travel insurance and don't have access to funds in case of an emergency then you need to only look in the mirror to see who is at fault and not blame a foreign business for not providing you free services.

Your mind is in some kind of ideological world as opposed to the real world where hotels need to be paid and airlines don't fly people for free ... in other words people get stranded when tour companies collapse and there is no insurance or bond by the tour company or their government to cover their debts. This is not only legal but common practice. One only needs to read the news to see this is the case time and time again ... especially with Russian tour companies but lets keep blaming the Thai hotel because it make sense in fantasy land.

I'm am not saying the hotel acted properly with treatment of the guests but there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with demanding payment for services rendered or kicking those out who refuse to pay or decided to go overseas with no access to even a small amount of emergency funds. A hotel is a business and not the Red Cross. These were people who could afford to go on an overseas trip and not poor starving kids from Africa smuggled into Thailand.

Nothing wrong with demanding payment from the company that you have a contract with but throwing the innocents on the streets in a foreign country, unconscionable.

You are absolutely incorrect in your statement that it is "unconscionable" as it is common in this situation (do a Google news search) and is perfectly legal and reasonable for a hotel to kick out guests, and/or demand payment from guests when bills are not paid.  The guests were ultimately responsible for their bills and most (if not all) bought travel insurance, as reported by the news, which clearly stated this and explained THE GUESTS would be reimbursed for THEIR expenses in a situation like this.  

Here is just one of a number of similar situations that have occured in the last year (not to mention these Russian guests were not given free hotel stay in any country this tour company operated) ... Goldtrail Travel collapse leaves British tourists stuck at home and abroad ... http://www.guardian....turkey-holidays

[TAWP]

Nisa >> We can all see that you fail to understand contract-law. Congratulations.

[Nisa]

TAWP, on 2012-02-12 03:30:02, said:

Nisa >> We can all see that you fail to understand contract-law. Congratulations.

The contract that exists in your mind dealing with how thing work in an different reality?

[Nisa]

ozzieman05, on 2012-02-02 19:45:09, said:

elektrified, on 2012-02-02 19:40:55, said:

jshorts, on 2012-01-30 18:16:11, said:

CatCage, on 2012-01-30 17:43:18, said:

That is terrible for them and even worse the Hotel refused them access to their own safe-boxes, can they do that?

If you were the hotel owner and someone didn't pay his bill, what would you do?

+1

But they did pay their bills, to the hotel official appointed agent

No the customers paid their agent (the one they chose to use) who in turn not only didn't pay the hotel but made clear they wouldn't be paying the hotel (or airlines) for the services of their customers ... even though they took the money to pay from their customers.

This is really not a difficult concept to understand. If you contract through a 3rd party to pay your bills and they don't, you are responsible. Be it buying a car, booking tickets, paying rent and so on ... the service provider is not obligated to give you free services because you got screwed by your agent. Yes, the hotel was screwed too and they have EVERY right to refuse service and demand payment from both the tour company (except in bankruptcy) and the customer.  These are not the only hotels to refuse service and ask for payment from guests in this situation across the globe. The airlines acted the same way as hotels and airlines do in such situations all across the world.  I did read one airline, who like all the rest refused to honor these customer's tickets, did say they would fly people home if and when they had empty seats on a plane. This kind of thing should be applauded but strangely many people think companies in a capitalist society should be giving services for free when there is no legal obligation too, nobody's life is in danger and/or just because people got screwed by some 3rd party.

There is simply no standard contract in these situations that lets those being given services off the hook and entitled to free services by the service provider in the event the billing party fails to pay. And no company in their right mind would enter into such a contract as should nobody in their right mind travel to a foreign country without adequate funds to take care of basic necessities should a problem arise.

Hotels are not the Red Cross or other charity. They exist to make a profit.

Edited by Nisa, 2012-02-12 07:18:46.

[hawker9000]

pastitche, on 2012-02-10 18:00:53, said:

kujirasan, on 2012-02-02 09:15:50, said:

Russian rudeness in legendary and exemplary, and that perception has enormous effect on people dealing with Russians, in 1941, French Prisoner of War in Poland rioted and large number were shot by German guards, they refused to eat on the same table with Russians, which were mainly high ranking officers, the French complained that is like eating with pigs, the destruction of upper classes during revolution left the country with only peasants, the etiquette and conventional code of conducts, table manners etc went extinct, if any one  has had a chance coming across Russian communities that had left Russian during Revolution, in Canada , France etc will find the difference, recently the Russian ministry of education has decided to teach etiquette in schools, as well in Russian itself the Government is referred to as KLEPTOCRACY ,  collapses of this sort are common occurrence. Peter the Great, was well know for stealing anything that wasn’t bolted to the floor while staying in Europe (Holland) , On the other side Thai hoteliers are not know for generosity,  or charity, once they have lousy customer like Russians, this type of reaction is not unusual. Unless the Thai tourist authority and police implement same policy as for Angolans, and designate specific hotels and condition for them, this type of disaster will occur incessantly.

Well I'll have to go check my history but I seem to remember that the French Revolution took place a century or more before Russia's and that all those tumbrils took the aristocracy (including the king) to meet Madame La Guillotine.

Is your point that in some way European table manners are a sign of breeding? Or are you suggesting that societies with different dining customs are essentially inferior to the European-American one? They, in themselves vary too - Americans frequently eat only with their fork and that in the wrong hand, Italians dip bread in their soups and sauces.....

Since the Russian revolution was early last century, when and where did you meet these groups of refugees with personal memories of pre-revolution times?

A purely personal story; as a student I had a flatmate who was African. He used to pare his fingernails very short with a razor blade and when I asked him why he explained that at home he ate with his hands so it was for hygiene. There is no right or wrong etiquette; if you are European your mediaeval ancestors (assuming that they were privileged enough not to live as peasants in daub and wattle huts) did not shrink from eating in a way which would make someone as sensitive as you appalled.

I suggest that you look at the etymology of "trencherman" which has evolved to mean someone with a healthy appetite

I could care less if someone's eating with the fork in their left hand or dipping their bread in the gravy or uses a razor blade on their nails.  Sheesh!  You know, this isn't REALLY about Russian "table manners" (unless you define "table manners" to include stealing the table, or shoving your way into line to grab one ahead of others who've been waiting their turn....)