Posted 2012-02-10 16:50:02
 RabC, on 2012-02-09 18:35:28, said:
i have no problems at all with my white breads, rolls, buns or various kinds but am yet to make a wholemeal bread that isnt like a brick. Any advice or suggestions, I am using the Aussie imported wholemeal flour in plain brown packs but no joy at all yet. Any help gratefully received
100% wholewheat (whole meal) etc. will usually turn out very heavy. It’s the compromise for really healthy bread. I mix 50% spelt with 50% wholewheat, it helps a bit, but is still pretty heavy compared to store bought (which is probably 50% white flour). Adding vital wheat gluten will also lighten it, as will replacing some water with milk.
Posted 2012-02-11 08:18:18
Furbie, on 2012-02-10 16:50:02, said:
RabC, on 2012-02-09 18:35:28, said:
i have no problems at all with my white breads, rolls, buns or various kinds but am yet to make a wholemeal bread that isnt like a brick. Any advice or suggestions, I am using the Aussie imported wholemeal flour in plain brown packs but no joy at all yet. Any help gratefully received
100% wholewheat (whole meal) etc. will usually turn out very heavy. It’s the compromise for really healthy bread. I mix 50% spelt with 50% wholewheat, it helps a bit, but is still pretty heavy compared to store bought (which is probably 50% white flour). Adding vital wheat gluten will also lighten it, as will replacing some water with milk.
Thanks I will give it a try
Posted 2012-02-11 15:54:59
necronx99, on 2012-02-01 03:23:53, said:
TheKeeNok, on 2012-02-01 02:24:39, said:
Sourdough LOL Freakin aewwsome.. Thanks. WIll give it a try...
Having a live sourdough culture is the key.
There are a plethora of methods for homemade sourdough starter if you do an internet search.
Here is one that looks interesting... How to Make Sourdough Starter
If you're a beginner, I suggest you read several write-ups. As with fermenting food, or pickling, or sour-curing meats, you need to make sure you have the right culture... and a SAFE culture.
Posted 2012-02-11 16:17:14
RabC, on 2012-02-11 08:18:18, said:
Furbie, on 2012-02-10 16:50:02, said:
RabC, on 2012-02-09 18:35:28, said:
i have no problems at all with my white breads, rolls, buns or various kinds but am yet to make a wholemeal bread that isnt like a brick. Any advice or suggestions, I am using the Aussie imported wholemeal flour in plain brown packs but no joy at all yet. Any help gratefully received
100% wholewheat (whole meal) etc. will usually turn out very heavy. It’s the compromise for really healthy bread. I mix 50% spelt with 50% wholewheat, it helps a bit, but is still pretty heavy compared to store bought (which is probably 50% white flour). Adding vital wheat gluten will also lighten it, as will replacing some water with milk.
Thanks I will give it a try
I would guess the store-bought wheat bread is about 30% wholewheat.
When I make 50/50 at home, it tastes more "whole-wheatier" than store-bought.
Oh, and adding milk may make a bread lighter, but it also tends to make the bubbles in the bread smaller. Something to consider... if you prefer big-bubbly bread (or not).
Interestingly, I used buttermilk in a recent sourdough recipe I experimented with, and the bread came out with the usual large bubbles and was quite nice (and extra sour). .... perhaps it's because buttermilk culture is mesophilic like yeast. Hmm?
Posted 2012-02-12 10:12:05
NanaFoods, on 2012-02-11 16:17:14, said:
RabC, on 2012-02-11 08:18:18, said:
Furbie, on 2012-02-10 16:50:02, said:
RabC, on 2012-02-09 18:35:28, said:
i have no problems at all with my white breads, rolls, buns or various kinds but am yet to make a wholemeal bread that isnt like a brick. Any advice or suggestions, I am using the Aussie imported wholemeal flour in plain brown packs but no joy at all yet. Any help gratefully received
100% wholewheat (whole meal) etc. will usually turn out very heavy. It’s the compromise for really healthy bread. I mix 50% spelt with 50% wholewheat, it helps a bit, but is still pretty heavy compared to store bought (which is probably 50% white flour). Adding vital wheat gluten will also lighten it, as will replacing some water with milk.
Thanks I will give it a try
I would guess the store-bought wheat bread is about 30% wholewheat.
When I make 50/50 at home, it tastes more "whole-wheatier" than store-bought.
Oh, and adding milk may make a bread lighter, but it also tends to make the bubbles in the bread smaller. Something to consider... if you prefer big-bubbly bread (or not).
Interestingly, I used buttermilk in a recent sourdough recipe I experimented with, and the bread came out with the usual large bubbles and was quite nice (and extra sour). .... perhaps it's because buttermilk culture is mesophilic like yeast. Hmm?
I have tried various ratios of wholemeal to white flour but never put as much as 50% white fliur in so will give it a try.
Posted 2012-02-12 10:19:57
RabC, on 2012-02-12 10:12:05, said:
I have tried various ratios of wholemeal to white flour but never put as much as 50% white fliur in so will give it a try.
I use 50% following this recipe for good results
http://low-cholester...eat-bread-46479
Edited by Orac, 2012-02-12 10:20:16.
Posted 2012-02-12 10:31:51
Orac, on 2012-02-12 10:19:57, said:
RabC, on 2012-02-12 10:12:05, said:
I have tried various ratios of wholemeal to white flour but never put as much as 50% white fliur in so will give it a try.
I use 50% following this recipe for good results
http://low-cholester...eat-bread-46479
Did you find the bread sweet with using honey?, I made a mixed flour wheat bread recipe this week and used some locally bought honey. The crust was far too sweet for my taste!
Posted 2012-02-12 10:40:14
phutoie2, on 2012-02-12 10:31:51, said:
Orac, on 2012-02-12 10:19:57, said:
RabC, on 2012-02-12 10:12:05, said:
I have tried various ratios of wholemeal to white flour but never put as much as 50% white fliur in so will give it a try.
I use 50% following this recipe for good results
http://low-cholester...eat-bread-46479
Did you find the bread sweet with using honey?, I made a mixed flour wheat bread recipe this week and used some locally bought honey. The crust was far too sweet for my taste!
It was fine for me and I don't have a particularly sweet tooth. I swapped the pure salt for low sodium salt as well (60% pottasium chloride) as I am trying to get my cholesterol and BP down.
Posted 2012-02-12 10:42:11
phutoie2, on 2012-02-01 13:49:08, said:
Being retired out in the boonies I have a bit of time on my hands and have started to make bread again. I make the dough by hand and bake in a small glass convection oven. Turns out well, so far making white bread rolls, French bread and Pitta's.
I have recently discovered a bakery supplies shop which besides many types of bread and all purpose flours also stocks rye and whole wheat flour.
Must admit that the bread is solely for myself as the wife & family have not succumbed to western food.
Could you expand on this convection oven ?? any pics ??
richardjm65, on 2012-02-01 14:36:39, said:
Yes, we too bake our own bread and have done since moving from Bangkok to Buriram province in '97. It's now a small, semi-commercial enterprise with several breads available plus crusty rolls, burger buns and pizza dough. I also have a sourdough culture that is several years old. We used to do the kneading by hand, but invested in a medium sized dough hook machine. We've an Italian EKA electric oven - sufficient for four loaves at a time.
We get our bulk bakery supplies from a place in Korat, but we know of another supplier in Buriram town. The problem with most of the commercially sold bread is its sweetness, chemical content and lack of both flavour and substance, which was the goad needed to make our own.
Yes, it's well worth baking your own bread.
Where in Korat if you dont mind....do you have a phone number at all ??
Posted 2012-02-12 14:11:48
Hello All, Korat Marko has a flours and yeasts, the baking supply store(2)
has large bags!! see pic.
Don't know the p/n, but heres what it looks like, a few blocks from Tool-Pro.
rice555
Posted 2012-02-13 01:01:11
Hello All, The Korat store in the pic I posted is between:
Assadang Rd. & Chom Pron Rd. on Ku Dan, "where it's in
Thai scrip". As you see this pic, it would be on the R/H
side of the street next to a 2 story seafood restro.
I've only been inside one time, and I don't remember if
they have small bags of flour, most of it is on pallets
like in the picture.(last post)
rice555
Posted 2012-02-15 08:43:16
Orac, on 2012-02-12 10:19:57, said:
RabC, on 2012-02-12 10:12:05, said:
I have tried various ratios of wholemeal to white flour but never put as much as 50% white fliur in so will give it a try.
I use 50% following this recipe for good results
http://low-cholester...eat-bread-46479
RabC, I find a 50/50 mix yields a less crumbly bread, yet still plenty of whole-wheat flavor. Orac's recipe reference looks OK, except I would use only 1-Tb honey, and definitely opt for a hard bread flour for the plain four component. The higher gluten content will help keep the resulting bread from being crumbly. Actually, I also add a few Tb of vital wheat gluten to help in that area as well.
Good luck and good eating 
Posted 2012-02-15 13:59:26
I make my own dough for pizza quite often. Last week I tried to make Ciabatta, following a 'simple' recipe. Was very messy and didn't turn out well.
I got a book on bread making so wil give it a go with something a little simpler.
Posted 2012-02-15 19:11:08
I bought a nice Zannusi built in oven in Homepro, a month or so back, 7900 bht. I'm very happy with it. Bread and cakes come out fine. I had my sister bring me out a Kenwood Chef from the UK ( 60 quid on ebay ). That was money well spent.
Posted 2012-02-19 09:53:22
samsiam, on 2012-02-12 10:42:11, said:
phutoie2, on 2012-02-01 13:49:08, said:
Being retired out in the boonies I have a bit of time on my hands and have started to make bread again. I make the dough by hand and bake in a small glass convection oven. Turns out well, so far making white bread rolls, French bread and Pitta's.
I have recently discovered a bakery supplies shop which besides many types of bread and all purpose flours also stocks rye and whole wheat flour.
Must admit that the bread is solely for myself as the wife & family have not succumbed to western food.
Could you expand on this convection oven ?? any pics ??
richardjm65, on 2012-02-01 14:36:39, said:
Yes, we too bake our own bread and have done since moving from Bangkok to Buriram province in '97. It's now a small, semi-commercial enterprise with several breads available plus crusty rolls, burger buns and pizza dough. I also have a sourdough culture that is several years old. We used to do the kneading by hand, but invested in a medium sized dough hook machine. We've an Italian EKA electric oven - sufficient for four loaves at a time.
We get our bulk bakery supplies from a place in Korat, but we know of another supplier in Buriram town. The problem with most of the commercially sold bread is its sweetness, chemical content and lack of both flavour and substance, which was the goad needed to make our own.
Yes, it's well worth baking your own bread.
Where in Korat if you dont mind....do you have a phone number at all ??
I can't supply an address as their card is in Thai, but if you know where that apparently abandoned hotel type building is, it's in that area. Perhaps your partner could call them on either 044-273-107 or 044-259-439 for directions. The second number is also their fax, so maybe they could supply a map. They call themselves "Baker Shop Co., Ltd.
Hope this helps.
Posted 2012-02-20 11:05:27
What type of yeast are TV bakers using?, the only one I can get hold up here (South Phetch) is SAF Gold instant. Any other types readily available and where?.
I was reading on a Bakers forum that in hot climates you should cut back on the amount of yeast in dough, I knead by hand etc.
Anyone any views on that one.
For the chap who asked about glass bowl electric convection ovens, they can be found at most good electrical appliance shops, plus Makro/Tesco etc.
Posted 2012-02-20 12:59:01
phutoie2, on 2012-02-20 11:05:27, said:
What type of yeast are TV bakers using?, the only one I can get hold up here (South Phetch) is SAF Gold instant. Any other types readily available and where?.
I was reading on a Bakers forum that in hot climates you should cut back on the amount of yeast in dough, I knead by hand etc.
Anyone any views on that one.
For the chap who asked about glass bowl electric convection ovens, they can be found at most good electrical appliance shops, plus Makro/Tesco etc.
phutoie2, on 2012-02-20 11:05:27, said:
What type of yeast are TV bakers using?, the only one I can get hold up here (South Phetch) is SAF Gold instant. Any other types readily available and where?.
I was reading on a Bakers forum that in hot climates you should cut back on the amount of yeast in dough, I knead by hand etc.
Anyone any views on that one.
For the chap who asked about glass bowl electric convection ovens, they can be found at most good electrical appliance shops, plus Makro/Tesco etc.
There are several brands available - Mauripan, Fermipan Red or Brown, SAF Gold Label. We prefer to buy the 500gm packs and for personal preference and constant reliability we choose SAF Gold Label. We previously used Fermipan Red, but had a couple of packs of yeast that simply did not work properly. We sought advice (via email) from Fermipan, but they did not respond. By the way, Fermipan Brown is more for cakes and sweeter bread products, Red being for your regular bread, but I could not find that information on the packets.
Can't comment on using less yeast in hot climates, but would say that the rising tends to be slower during the cooler days and also on the days when humidity is high.
I think yeast not working properly might be due to improper packaging, air ingress, storage in high temperatures or just old age. I also strongly suspect that most of the yeasts, although in different packaging, originate from the same factory which I think is in Vietnam.
As an aside, after the first thousand or so hand-kneaded loaves, machine kneading looked a far more attractive prospect.
Posted 2012-02-24 10:26:49
I made my bread by hand and cooked it in a homemade wood fired horno, I went to raising chickens, a Thai type of Rhode Island reds. place the pen to close to my oven and have not used it for a while, a few months ago I went to a Thai bake shop in Nakhon Sawan, while looking around I saw a Bread Machine for sale, the friend that told me about the bake shop also brought his bread machine there 5 years ago.
I purchased a RED Man Bread Maker (for 3,000 baht), and it works great and with a little hassle in making bread, I prepare all the ingredients and place them in the bread maker and 3 hours later fresh bread, I have been making at least 2 loaves a week, my Thai in laws like and eat the bread. I did have one problem my whole wheat bread had a after taste I did not like ,so after many attempts failed to cure the problem , I went to making white bread which turned out great. I had stopped eating white bread about 20 years ago, but I eat it now, I convinced myself that homemade white bread dose not have all the preservatives and additives that store brought bread has.
It is a easy no hassle bread making system that I would encourage all bread eaters to used.
Cheers
Edited by kikoman, 2012-02-24 10:29:22.
Posted 2012-02-24 11:46:49
kikoman, on 2012-02-24 10:26:49, said:
...I went to raising chickens, a Thai type of Rhode Island reds. place the pen to close to my oven and have not used it for a while...
OK, kikoman, there is a whole story there begging to be told
But I am glad you have enjoyed success with the bread machine.
As for the problem with your wholewheat...perhaps your wholewheat flour was stale? Or perhaps reducing the percentage of wholewheat flour to white flour (about 50/50) might help.
Posted 2012-02-25 00:30:11
I thought that may be the case, Whole Wheat flour being stale. I have regular and white whole wheat flour that I purchased in Chiang Mai which I was using, I recently purchased some WW flour at the Nakhon Sawan store where I purchased my bread machine but have not had a chance to proof it yet.
I had already tried the 50 % WW flour and 50 % white bread flour, I also tried the 33 1/3% WW flour and 66 2/3 bread flour, both had the same after taste, so I was guessing there is something wrong with the flour.
Nana Foods it good to hear from you again.
Cheers
Posted 2012-02-26 06:05:28
Hi kikoman,
nice to hear from you as well.
Do you keep your flour in the fridge?
I do. Keeps it fresh and helps prevent weevils.
Posted 2012-02-26 13:29:20
RabC, on 2012-02-09 18:35:28, said:
i have no problems at all with my white breads, rolls, buns or various kinds but am yet to make a wholemeal bread that isnt like a brick. Any advice or suggestions, I am using the Aussie imported wholemeal flour in plain brown packs but no joy at all yet. Any help gratefully received
Wholemeal may need a bit more water than white.
I used to make hand kneaded wholemeal bricks when I was in OZ, it was a lot easier after I was given a breadmaking machine.
Where do you get your wholemeal flour?
Posted 2012-02-27 07:16:55
No Nana Foods I do not keep my flour in the fridge, After I get some fresh flour I will place it in the fridge, thanks for the suggestion
Cheers: .
Posted 2012-02-27 09:27:50
Bread machines - for pussies. Enjoy!.
http://www.gourmet.c...inet_sweetdough
Posted 2012-02-27 12:37:38
kikoman, on 2012-02-27 07:16:55, said:
No Nana Foods I do not keep my flour in the fridge, After I get some fresh flour I will place it in the fridge, thanks for the suggestion
Cheers: .
Great. I hope that helps.
I didnt find this necessary back in the States, where the climate in my area was cool and dry.
But here... quite helpful.
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