Posted 2012-02-04 18:50:26
Hi,
A friend of mine was asking me to take a look at his "dodgy" degree. Trying to get some information about this "institution", I've made an almost complete registration. Please be aware that these "degrees" are not accredited by any countries.
This even tops the Thai educational system and I'm wondering how many people in this country are holding such degrees.
If there's really a Seth Harding outside, please be aware that it was just a fictive name.
Here's the conversation to verify that I'm qualified for a Master degree in education. names in this "conversation" are fictional. The lie that the institution would be in the U.S.A and that Hillary Clinton will sign documents is indeed hilarious. I'd prefer Monica Lewinski's signature..... 
You are now chatting with 'M.............
M............:Hello there
M.............:thanks for coming on chat Sir
Seth Harding:Hi..
M...............:How are you doing today ?
Seth Harding:I'm okay...just wondering if I could make a degree in education at your institution.
M.....................:yes, sure !
M.......................:Would you like to tell me, if you've been referred by any of our graduate ?
M........................OR
M........................:Did you just find us online ?
Seth Harding:I'm in Bangkok/Thailand, working there for three years as an English teacher and need a degree in education soon..
Seth Harding:I found you online..
M....................:ok, that's perfect !
M.....................:So, let me give you a brief idea of what we do basically..
Seth Harding:But I do not have another degree, just finished high school..
Seth Harding:ok
M......................:i see that's not a problem
M......................:See Seth, we're one of the fully accredited university over here in U.S.A., having over 79,000 graduates worldwide
Seth Harding:Great....
Seth Harding:What do I have to do and how long will it take?
M................:What we do basically, we offer "Prior Learning Assessment" program.. In which, we evaluate you on the basis of your professional work & life experience.
M..........................:and we convert your previous & existing work hours into credits, on the basis of which the degree will be awarded to you within just a matter of 15 days time only !
Seth Harding:I need a "real" degree, as Thai authorities will check on it. In this case the Ministry of education in Bangkok...
M......................:Therefore, you'll not be obligated to take any kind of courses, classes, exams or studies
M.........................:Since, the degree qualification which we award you basically, they are just the normal, standard & traditional documents which you receive from any other university after studying for a particular period of time !
Seth Harding:But how can I receive a degree then?
M.................:so, it's 100% "real degree"
M..................:So, could you please confirm me.. How many years of work experience do you have in total ?
Seth Harding:Three years teaching in Thailand, high school and primary level..
M..................:very good
M...................:And what national are you sir ?
Seth Harding:I'm English.....
Seth Harding:They always change the laws according teaching here..
M.................:Right !
Seth Harding:Where's your institution?
M..................:We're an American University, having offices around the globe
Seth Harding:Could it be proofed by the Ministry of education here?
M.................But our Head Office is in "Colbert, GA, U.S.A"
M..................:Yes
M....................:Let me guide you sir
Seth Harding:Ok..
M...................:Since, we're are Fully Accredited and Internationally Accepted university
M........................So, for our Graduates who are living in Thailand..
Seth Harding:Ok...
M.....................:We provide an Additional Facility which is known as the Thai Embassy Legalization
Seth Harding:Where? In the States?
M....................:In which, we basically get your professional degree qualification attested and validated through the following departments :-
M.....................:* District of Columbia.
M......................* Notary Public.
M.......................:* Federal State Board of Maryland.
M........................:* Secretary of State "Mrs. Hillary Clinton"
M.......................:* U.S. State Department.
Seth Harding:Could my friend who's from Germany also get a degree to teach English in Thailand? His English is excellent..and he's got a degree, but a German one...
M............................:* Department of Foreign Affairs ( what you guys call 'Ministry of Foreign Affairs' )
Seth Harding:Hilary Clinton will sign it?
M..............................* Thai Embassy.
M..............................yes
Seth Harding:What about my German friend?
M...................... Once your degree documents will be signed and stamped through the above 7 departments
M............................:You'll be able to use it any part of the world
Seth Harding:He'll be in Thailand tomorrow...
M........................:Whether you talk about Europe, Asia, Middle East, North America or even Africa
M...........................very good
Seth Harding:So does that mean that I cold teach English also in for example Germany?
M............................So, we can proceed with your application right now
M..........................;yes
M...........................:any where around the globe
M.............................:because no matter wherever you go
Seth Harding:How long will it take to receive my degree?
M............................:to give you the exact information about the degree, legalizations and the cost involved
Seth Harding:And who can they call to check on this degree? Sorry I'm a little bit confused..
M..........................:Could you please confirm me the following details so that i can give you the accurate information :-
M..........................:1. Full Name.
M.............................:2. Date of Birth. ( month / date / year )
M.............................:3. Contact Number.
M..............................:4. Alternative Number.
M..................................:5. Email address.
M................................6. Desired Package. (degree) in (major).
M................................7. Nationality.
M.................................:8. Complete Shipping Address (Physical Address).
Seth Harding:Where the document will go to?
Seth Harding:Could I also apply for a Master's?
M.................................:sure, let me answer your questions one by one please
M.................................:Since, we award degrees based on your work experience
M.................................. So, every degree requires a certain amount of work experience
Seth Harding:Sorry, res...
M..................................:such as :-
M...............................:Associate Degree requires 2 Years.
M.................................:Bachelor's Degree requires 4 Years.
M..................................:Master's Degree requires 6 years.
M...................................Doctorate Degree requires 10 Years
M..................................and PhD Degree requires at least 12 years of work experience.
M...................................:and please note
M......................................:it's not the total years of experiencM......................................<span class="operatorname" style="background-color: white; "><b>
Posted 2012-02-04 19:02:34
US Department of Foreign Affairs -beautiful!
Doctorate degree 10 years, PhD 12 years - beautiful!
Posted 2012-02-04 23:40:08
Probably also runs a Nigerian scam on the side. Caveat emptor, and please remember while it is not a crime NOT to have a degree (and still not impossible to teach legally without one depending on the circumstances) it is definitely a crime (fraud) to pretend to have a degree and not really have one.
Posted 2012-02-05 08:46:31
Did this person state they were "American University? OR
AN American university ???
Your post does mention Washington DC.
Please reply, thanks
Edited by bangkokburning, 2012-02-05 08:49:11.
Posted 2012-02-05 11:06:29
 bangkokburning, on 2012-02-05 08:46:31, said:
Did this person state they were "American University? OR
AN American university ???
Your post does mention Washington DC.
Please reply, thanks
(Copied and pasted)
Office might be in UAE, Nigeria, or in the Sahara......
Where does it say something about Washington D.C.? Monica Lewinsky might still be there, I guess.
Why don't you just read it again, without being rude......
Edited by sirchai, 2012-02-05 11:15:30.
Posted 2012-02-06 08:46:49
M.....................:* District of Columbia.
FURTHER, you have University capitalized - which makes it a pronoun.
American University
an American university
Guess that degree is working well for you.
Edited by bangkokburning, 2012-02-06 08:48:31.
Posted 2012-02-06 10:39:23
bangkokburning, on 2012-02-06 08:46:49, said:
M.....................:* District of Columbia.
FURTHER, you have University capitalized - which makes it a pronoun.
American University
an American university
Guess that degree is working well for you.
Excuse me, please! Read it again and you'll find out that it wasn't me who wrote that.
Posted 2012-02-06 17:27:20
Please be civil. Grammar Nazi's not welcomed.
Thank you.
Posted 2012-02-06 19:49:51
Scott, on 2012-02-06 17:27:20, said:
Please be civil. Grammar Nazi's not welcomed.
Thank you.
Well, the representative of the higher learning institution apparently used the capital U. That is the same person who says there is a US Department of Foreign Affairs... I think this adds to level of credibility of that U/u-niversity, don't you think?
Posted 2012-02-07 07:18:47
I believe the credibility, such as it is, of school has been established.
Posted 2012-02-08 08:05:28
Is this like the cheapestdegree.com thing? Loads of people have these, and they claim to have a verification process. They say the verification is done by post, as is done by all universities.
Posted 2012-02-08 08:31:19
Ijustwannateach, on 2012-02-04 23:40:08, said:
Probably also runs a Nigerian scam on the side. Caveat emptor, and please remember while it is not a crime NOT to have a degree (and still not impossible to teach legally without one depending on the circumstances) it is definitely a crime (fraud) to pretend to have a degree and not really have one.
Using a fake degree from Khao San Road to obtain a visa, visa extension, work permit or TL is fraud. IE a criminal offence.
Using a 'life experience' degree from an 'accredited' institution is not fraud in Thailand as the degree isn't fake. It's no more fake than an honorary degree imo.
http://en.wikipedia....Honorary_degree
http://en.wikipedia....perience_degree
It's up to the school to check it's veracity and also whether they accept. The ministries of Labour, Immigration and Education will accept the school's decision unless they have information that suggests the degree is fake.
Quite a few schools and agencies advise teachers to obtain one if the teacher doesn't have a degree. I know many teachers working here with wp and TL gained from having a life-experience degree.
Edited by Loaded, 2012-02-08 08:32:20.
Posted 2012-02-08 10:06:01
Loaded, on 2012-02-08 08:31:19, said:
Ijustwannateach, on 2012-02-04 23:40:08, said:
Probably also runs a Nigerian scam on the side. Caveat emptor, and please remember while it is not a crime NOT to have a degree (and still not impossible to teach legally without one depending on the circumstances) it is definitely a crime (fraud) to pretend to have a degree and not really have one.
Using a fake degree from Khao San Road to obtain a visa, visa extension, work permit or TL is fraud. IE a criminal offence.
Using a 'life experience' degree from an 'accredited' institution is not fraud in Thailand as the degree isn't fake. It's no more fake than an honorary degree imo.
http://en.wikipedia....Honorary_degree
http://en.wikipedia....perience_degree
It's up to the school to check it's veracity and also whether they accept. The ministries of Labour, Immigration and Education will accept the school's decision unless they have information that suggests the degree is fake.
Quite a few schools and agencies advise teachers to obtain one if the teacher doesn't have a degree. I know many teachers working here with wp and TL gained from having a life-experience degree.
Is it true that it is up to the school? I thought that the government departments were responsible for this. I want to take a degree to keep me legal in Thailand, but this would be a tidy stopgap until I can find somewhere cheap enough for me to enrol.
As an aside, if I did this would the teachers council notice that I had an application for a licence refused until I showed some further education was being undertaken?
Posted 2012-02-08 10:42:11
I have to verify the degrees of all new employees. The various Ministries may or may not accept the degree or verification. Usually they do, however, there are a few officers who are quite adept at spotting dodgy degrees.
The Ministry of Education nearly always asks us for the transcript. What type of transcript do you get with a 'Life Experience Degree'?
When a potential applicant submits a 'Life Experience Degree', I check the institution issuing it on the internet. If it is an unaccredited school, the application stops there. I know that alarm bells will go off at the Ministry of Education office we use, for sure.
In the US there are a number of schools that are not accredited, including some of the religious universities.
I wouldn't consider a degree from any unaccredited school to be a fake or be fraudulent, but if you plan on using one, exercise extreme care and be aware that it might be rejected. In some of the more pliable Ministry offices, they might be happy with a piece of paper and happily send it through.
I think the Teacher's Council would be a harder sell.
Posted 2012-02-08 11:54:24
When I first went to Thailand back in 2001 I started working at a pretty bottom end language school. The name sounded a bit like a tabacco company....
I was very naive and was told to get myself some 'paperwork' that would be required for a workpermit. It seemed standard practice back then and I didnt really even think about it. I was young..ish and Thailand seemed to be a place where rules were designed to be bent. Fast forward a few years and I went from being a young f***knut to being someone that actually enjoyed teaching and became increasingly uneasy about the whole thing. I began to feel like the cheat that I was. I cancelled the whole deal and decided it better to find other ways to go about teaching and extending my stay.
There must still be many out there that are doing the same. Many I would guess dont give a shit. I wouldnt want to be in that position now. The risk of getting caught may not be great but it is definitely there. If you have decided to stay there for an extended period or even have a family there then start making moves to get legitimate...legitimately!
As far as the life experience thing goes. It sounds like a croc of Sh*te to me. I mean, if you want to get legit & get the teachers licence/work permit these days you have to go through the TCT tests anyway right? I wouldnt fancy handing in any dodgey paperwork to those guys. An 'honorary degree' Give me a break. I cant see the average TEFL Joe Bloggs from Scunthorpe being a real candidate for one. Paul McCartney got one, but he changed Rock n Roll history! If t hey can kid themeselves then they might just be able to kid others I suppose. Then again a lot of them do have a lot of 'life experience'
Which leads me to a ponder what all those that are working with dodgey quals are doing when/if they are being asked to sit the TCT tests? That situation sounds like a ticking time bomb to me.
Posted 2012-02-08 12:33:12
Thailand is raising their education standards to be in accordance with the AEC requirements. At my university, we are already going to switch our semester from a Thai academic calender to a western academic calender. Also, labor is addressed in the new AEC treaty. Labor will be able to move freely across borders with an ASEAN or AEC ID card. If you're not careful, you will be replaced with a Chinese speaking English teacher who can teach English and Chinese and who has a real degree.
If you have money to go to school you should do it now before you have a family and get caught with a worthless lifetime experience degree. It's only a matter of time before they start to look closer at teaching credentials. There are many international programs in universities all over Thailand. If you have any questions about studying in Thailand, please ask. I work in admissions in my university.
Posted 2012-02-08 12:41:33
Interesting to get your perspective Richard.
Posted 2012-02-08 13:05:43
Yooyung, on 2012-02-08 11:54:24, said:
When I first went to Thailand back in 2001 I started working at a pretty bottom end language school.
*Snip*
I was very naive and was told to get myself some 'paperwork' that would be required for a workpermit. It seemed standard practice back then and I didnt really even think about it.
*Snip*
As far as the life experience thing goes. It sounds like a croc of Sh*te to me. I mean, if you want to get legit & get the teachers licence/work permit these days you have to go through the TCT tests anyway right? I wouldnt fancy handing in any dodgey paperwork to those guys.
*Snip*
Which leads me to a ponder what all those that are working with dodgey quals are doing when/if they are being asked to sit the TCT tests? That situation sounds like a ticking time bomb to me.
Sorry for snipping parts of your post, but I will try to reply to a few points you've made. I wouldn't call it 'standard practice' to get a fake degree, but it certainly was not uncommon. Enforcement was lax and there is anecdotal reports of schools and immigration officers telling people where to get a degree--and more than a few schools actually paying for it.
I am sure some of the old timers with the dodgy degrees are still teaching. Those who had a TL in 2003 (?) were grandfathered through and don't need any waivers or exams. I am sure those old degrees are buried and it's doubtful there will be a concerted effort to find them. However, if you change schools....
If you have a degree in education then you do not have to take the exams. You are eligible for a TL.
Posted 2012-02-08 13:11:29
Fair point, saying it was standard practice isnt true. I suppose I should say that it was reasonably common practice though, at least in the circles I was in back in those days.....
Posted 2012-02-08 13:13:28
...wobbly circles that they were.
Posted 2012-02-08 13:16:49
I would like to think that after coming back to Aus to get a degree that I could find at least some schools/language institutes or whatever that will take into account my quals and the fact that they are REAL!
Posted 2012-02-09 10:33:41
Yooyung, on 2012-02-08 13:16:49, said:
I would like to think that after coming back to Aus to get a degree that I could find at least some schools/language institutes or whatever that will take into account my quals and the fact that they are REAL!
It certainly depends who issues the degree, as has been pointed out already.
Posted 2012-02-15 16:01:55
By any chance is this Belford university in Colbert, GA, U.S.A?
If so then look at this: http://wiki.answers....ited_university
This is not an accredited university
Posted 2012-02-15 17:24:26
Diverse, on 2012-02-15 16:01:55, said:
Yep! Please start your registration. Even your Kindergarten time, the time shitting your pants will be accountable for your "life experience" , They''ll call you, but not from the States.They're somewhere in the United Arabic Emirates.It's better to spend $ 600 for horse beer......
Posted 2012-02-15 17:53:41
I used to sell these things. Great for fooling employers - I think. 
|
Sponsored by...
|
0
