Posted 2012-02-07 17:46:54
 steveromagnino, on 2012-02-07 11:20:39, said:
Launching stuff is close to my area of work.
Basically, with cars, you have to follow a few concepts in marketing; 4Ps is one way to look in terms of day to day; simutaneously you need to look at 'moments of truth' (MOT) the moments in time when people are going to be looking to purchase a car or experience a critical incident that will influence their perception thereafter, and insert your brand/product in at that time in a favourable way. Being that cars are a lifetime relationship for the most part (you buy again and again) a smart brand builds a long term relationship with their client base, using trade ins, service, etc ensuring that the maximum LTV (lifetime value) of each client is extracted and minimising churn (customer switching brands). I am sure the BSI & balloon leasing approaches of BMW do a good job not only of targeting the perception that the Beemer is unreliable, but also helps to ensure a strong positive relationship and easier step to getting people to trade in to the new model every few years.
In the case of moments of truth, most people have at some point experienced either a major car failure where the service network and costs are tested; a brand passing this point thus locks in their client when the next MOT comes up to buy; or, a fantastic service experience where you thank your lucky stars you have that company's car and not someone else; you don't forget the lousy service of 6 month wait or 400,000b 3 month wait incident with a brand.
For Ford this makes life tough; as a marketer its a lot harder to increase market share from a lower position; advertising PR etc all works best with people already invested in that brand (if you own a ford for instance, you will tend to notice and pay attention to Ford advertising more than someone who doesn't, tested in many many academic studies the world over). If you own a Toyota the first thing that you will look at when you trade in...is probably another Toyota...unless some MOT means you specifically don't. I'll not explain the concepts of service quality but they also play a role and in marketing science are well documented.
So IMHO what Ford seem to be doing whether by good fortune or accident is to disrupt the market enough here in Thailand by simultaneously:
- getting out of step with some other brands in terms of refreshing new models etc (now out of step with Toyota in the pick ups) so they can get a compare brand new with facelift
- increasing their range
- increasing their dealer network
- they seem to be fairly aggressive on price/features
The barriers they face are general low profile and some of the moments of truth stacked against them from the past; average models in the past, high depreciation, lack of dealer networks and also the strong/weak effect of marketing with brands where the dominant brands can do the same spend as them which is a lower cost % proportion of sales for the dominant brand anyhow, and yet acheive a better result from their marketing dollar/baht dollar for dollar.
I believe the approach they have taken with the Ranger (either through stupidity, poor planning or deviousness) of claiming to have a car ready to deliver in mid 2011...then Nov 2011....then Feb 2012...then April 2012....then not April 2012 (I've been told that to my face) but at some point thereafter...is either marketing genius or a bit of a misstep.
However, the reality now is the fiesta is widely considered to be a great car and fortunately for Ford the government policy to favour the 1.5 isn't really clear/logical; the Ranger is widely considered to be a serious competitor to the Isuzu/GM and Toyota (who are out of step now still pushing the older Vigo); they have new models coming in later this year which will keep their momentum going.
For me, I am close to pulling the trigger on a Golf GTI instead of the Ranger wildtrack 3.2 and may yet still get another pick up of the mid level variety; I still think it's a great car...but less sure as always whether they know how to run a car company from the customer side yet (they certainly know it from the production side with great range of vehicles).
The problem with all this is 1) Most Thai car buyers in this price range have never actually bought a car before. 2) Ford has had such little market penetration in TH the past couple of decades that previous owner experience is almost statistically meaningless.
IMHO, a 'clean slate' is probably a better starting point for them though, given the way the mass-market vehicles have vastly improved in just the past few years alone. i.e. Ford are not having to explain why previous models were so noisy, or so uneconomical, or why they had such poor safety, or indeed why they ended up the service department so reguarly, or why everyone around them laughed, jeered, or told them they got a bad deal, nor are they having to explain why they got such a crappy trade-in price when it was time for the next one.
Every other well established brand has one or more of these to answer for..
On top of this, we have the internet, now yours anywhere in Thailand for 199B/month, which is empowering the younger generations with the ability to research, learn and understand things like never before. The people they'd traditionally take 'wisdom' from just can't compete with it, especially given the frequency and in many cases, absurdity, of the 'old wives tales' that get around here...
Never before in Thailand has the marketing machine been able to wield this kind of power..
Edited by MoonRiverOasis, 2012-02-07 17:50:29.
Posted 2012-02-07 19:22:17
It is amazing that none of the car companies have a decent English website. GM's not too bad, but none of them really good.
#28
katabeachbum
Posted 2012-02-07 19:57:04
mogandave, on 2012-02-07 19:22:17, said:
It is amazing that none of the car companies have a decent English website. GM's not too bad, but none of them really good.
mia farang decides anyway 
Posted 2012-02-07 21:31:48
katabeachbum, on 2012-02-07 19:57:04, said:
mogandave, on 2012-02-07 19:22:17, said:
It is amazing that none of the car companies have a decent English website. GM's not too bad, but none of them really good.
mia farang decides anyway
.
not in my house ;-)
Posted 2012-02-07 22:33:52
MoonRiverOasis, on 2012-02-07 17:46:54, said:
steveromagnino, on 2012-02-07 11:20:39, said:
Launching stuff is close to my area of work.
Basically, with cars, you have to follow a few concepts in marketing; 4Ps is one way to look in terms of day to day; simutaneously you need to look at 'moments of truth' (MOT) the moments in time when people are going to be looking to purchase a car or experience a critical incident that will influence their perception thereafter, and insert your brand/product in at that time in a favourable way. Being that cars are a lifetime relationship for the most part (you buy again and again) a smart brand builds a long term relationship with their client base, using trade ins, service, etc ensuring that the maximum LTV (lifetime value) of each client is extracted and minimising churn (customer switching brands). I am sure the BSI & balloon leasing approaches of BMW do a good job not only of targeting the perception that the Beemer is unreliable, but also helps to ensure a strong positive relationship and easier step to getting people to trade in to the new model every few years.
In the case of moments of truth, most people have at some point experienced either a major car failure where the service network and costs are tested; a brand passing this point thus locks in their client when the next MOT comes up to buy; or, a fantastic service experience where you thank your lucky stars you have that company's car and not someone else; you don't forget the lousy service of 6 month wait or 400,000b 3 month wait incident with a brand.
For Ford this makes life tough; as a marketer its a lot harder to increase market share from a lower position; advertising PR etc all works best with people already invested in that brand (if you own a ford for instance, you will tend to notice and pay attention to Ford advertising more than someone who doesn't, tested in many many academic studies the world over). If you own a Toyota the first thing that you will look at when you trade in...is probably another Toyota...unless some MOT means you specifically don't. I'll not explain the concepts of service quality but they also play a role and in marketing science are well documented.
So IMHO what Ford seem to be doing whether by good fortune or accident is to disrupt the market enough here in Thailand by simultaneously:
- getting out of step with some other brands in terms of refreshing new models etc (now out of step with Toyota in the pick ups) so they can get a compare brand new with facelift
- increasing their range
- increasing their dealer network
- they seem to be fairly aggressive on price/features
The barriers they face are general low profile and some of the moments of truth stacked against them from the past; average models in the past, high depreciation, lack of dealer networks and also the strong/weak effect of marketing with brands where the dominant brands can do the same spend as them which is a lower cost % proportion of sales for the dominant brand anyhow, and yet acheive a better result from their marketing dollar/baht dollar for dollar.
I believe the approach they have taken with the Ranger (either through stupidity, poor planning or deviousness) of claiming to have a car ready to deliver in mid 2011...then Nov 2011....then Feb 2012...then April 2012....then not April 2012 (I've been told that to my face) but at some point thereafter...is either marketing genius or a bit of a misstep.
However, the reality now is the fiesta is widely considered to be a great car and fortunately for Ford the government policy to favour the 1.5 isn't really clear/logical; the Ranger is widely considered to be a serious competitor to the Isuzu/GM and Toyota (who are out of step now still pushing the older Vigo); they have new models coming in later this year which will keep their momentum going.
For me, I am close to pulling the trigger on a Golf GTI instead of the Ranger wildtrack 3.2 and may yet still get another pick up of the mid level variety; I still think it's a great car...but less sure as always whether they know how to run a car company from the customer side yet (they certainly know it from the production side with great range of vehicles).
The problem with all this is 1) Most Thai car buyers in this price range have never actually bought a car before. 2) Ford has had such little market penetration in TH the past couple of decades that previous owner experience is almost statistically meaningless.
IMHO, a 'clean slate' is probably a better starting point for them though, given the way the mass-market vehicles have vastly improved in just the past few years alone. i.e. Ford are not having to explain why previous models were so noisy, or so uneconomical, or why they had such poor safety, or indeed why they ended up the service department so reguarly, or why everyone around them laughed, jeered, or told them they got a bad deal, nor are they having to explain why they got such a crappy trade-in price when it was time for the next one.
Every other well established brand has one or more of these to answer for..
On top of this, we have the internet, now yours anywhere in Thailand for 199B/month, which is empowering the younger generations with the ability to research, learn and understand things like never before. The people they'd traditionally take 'wisdom' from just can't compete with it, especially given the frequency and in many cases, absurdity, of the 'old wives tales' that get around here...
Never before in Thailand has the marketing machine been able to wield this kind of power..
MRO,do you really think that Internet alone can change the image of some "bad behavior" from the past..??...well,I hope so!!...and I see some good start already,the Ford CM is building a new facility and it's all gonna look like the "others" at least...hope,with a bit of imagination,they can hire some good mechanics as well...I'll stick with Ford,as long as they will keep me satisfied with the good service! After all it is not that hard,just copy the guys from the West 
Posted 2012-02-08 13:00:07
BSJ, on 2012-02-06 06:36:40, said:
I never though I would say this about a Ford....."I quite like the look of it". 
Pity they only have a pissy 2.2 engine.  – The all-new global Ford Ranger has more than enough muscle and backbone to get the job done – and in a highly fuel-efficient manner that will keep both the customers and their wallet equally happy.
Ranger’s new powertrains are at the heart of its exceptional capability and have been developed to suit a spectrum of uses. Three new engines are offered:
Duratorq TDCi 2.2L VG Turbo: a four-cylinder diesel engine with peak torque output of 375 Nm and power output of 110 kW (150 PS)
Duratorq TDCi 3.2L VG Turbo: a five-cylinder diesel engine with a stump-pulling torque of 470 Nm and power rated at 147 kW (200PS)
This is not pissy at all 
Duratec 2.5L iVCT: a four-cylinder petrol engine which produces 226 Nm of torque and outstanding power of 122 kW (166 PS).
I suppose global doesn't mean Thailand have been wrong many times before, like when I saw " V " on the back of a Tuna I though it meant V6. 
Edited by Kwasaki, 2012-02-08 13:04:51.
Posted 2012-02-08 16:39:04
mogandave, on 2012-02-07 19:22:17, said:
It is amazing that none of the car companies have a decent English website. GM's not too bad, but none of them really good.
Farang represent such a small fraction of the buying public, that it just doesn't matter. Hence why you don't see any Ads for new cars popping up on ThaiVisa, but you'll see them everywhere on Thai language websites...
And GM's whole website is half-assed But GM have never really "got" the internet before, so no reason to expect their Thai efforts to suddenly break the mold
funcat, on 2012-02-07 22:33:52, said:
MRO,do you really think that Internet alone can change the image of some "bad behavior" from the past..??
No, I'm saying that the average new Ford buyer (Thai) has either never bought a car before, or, has never bought a Ford before - so there's no bad experiences for them to forget, or for Ford to overcome.
However, It's very clear that those using the internet to do their new car research generally end up taking internet-based advice over "local wisdom" (in quotation fingers). It's pretty apparent even on these forums - and Thai's are no different 
Edited by MoonRiverOasis, 2012-02-08 16:41:14.
Posted 2012-02-08 16:46:12
BUT, it is so eeeeeeeeeeeeasy to put stuff in English to make sales. 
Posted 2012-02-08 16:48:24
funcat, on 2012-02-07 22:33:52, said:
Ford CM is building a new facility and it's all gonna look like the "others" at least...hope,with a bit of imagination,they can hire some good mechanics as well...I'll stick with Ford,as long as they will keep me satisfied with the good service! After all it is not that hard,just copy the guys from the West
Ford's target for 2012 is to increase their Thai dealership count by 30% over what it was in 2011 (The new 'Ford American Motors' CM dealership is part of the 2011 count BTW). That will bring them up to 130, or roughly half of Toyota.
As for mechanics, all brands have the same problem when it comes to skills.. You only get what you pay for, and there's no mainstream brand that pays more...
Your best hope there is good diagnostic tools, good documentation, decent parts availability, and of course, individual experience. Ford have the first 3 well sorted, but the latter only comes with time, and is every brand's problem. Especially given the massive dealership expansion efforts being undertaken by all tier-2 brands - there's a lot of 'green' service techs out there, in every brand.
Edited by MoonRiverOasis, 2012-02-08 16:50:05.
Posted 2012-02-08 16:52:04
transam, on 2012-02-08 16:46:12, said:
BUT, it is so eeeeeeeeeeeeasy to put stuff in English to make sales.
It's also easy to put it in Japanese (which I'm sure some execs would like), and that'd probably be equally effective as English (i.e. hard to justify even minimal effort).
Edit: Somewhere between 60,000 and 100,000 new cars are purchased in Thailand every month. Of those, a maximum of 1% (600-1000 units) can somehow be attributed to Farang buyers/sponsors. From a website perspective, that means it's more worthwhile trying to support web browsers like Internet Explorer 5 and Netscape Navigator 4 (which these days, would be considered ludicrous).
Edited by MoonRiverOasis, 2012-02-08 17:02:16.
#36
katabeachbum
Posted 2012-02-08 20:04:55
MoonRiverOasis, on 2012-02-08 16:52:04, said:
transam, on 2012-02-08 16:46:12, said:
BUT, it is so eeeeeeeeeeeeasy to put stuff in English to make sales.
It's also easy to put it in Japanese (which I'm sure some execs would like), and that'd probably be equally effective as English (i.e. hard to justify even minimal effort).
Edit: Somewhere between 60,000 and 100,000 new cars are purchased in Thailand every month. Of those, a maximum of 1% (600-1000 units) can somehow be attributed to Farang buyers/sponsors. From a website perspective, that means it's more worthwhile trying to support web browsers like Internet Explorer 5 and Netscape Navigator 4 (which these days, would be considered ludicrous).
ad to that, most of the foreigners buying cars in Th are +60yo, and dont really search info online, except you guys
Howcome is a company like Expat Motors could live for a decade, oh cause the foreigners could get info there, and thus confidence, face to face, in English language
Posted 2012-02-08 20:23:39
katabeachbum, on 2012-02-08 20:04:55, said:
MoonRiverOasis, on 2012-02-08 16:52:04, said:
transam, on 2012-02-08 16:46:12, said:
BUT, it is so eeeeeeeeeeeeasy to put stuff in English to make sales.
It's also easy to put it in Japanese (which I'm sure some execs would like), and that'd probably be equally effective as English (i.e. hard to justify even minimal effort).
Edit: Somewhere between 60,000 and 100,000 new cars are purchased in Thailand every month. Of those, a maximum of 1% (600-1000 units) can somehow be attributed to Farang buyers/sponsors. From a website perspective, that means it's more worthwhile trying to support web browsers like Internet Explorer 5 and Netscape Navigator 4 (which these days, would be considered ludicrous).
ad to that, most of the foreigners buying cars in Th are +60yo, and dont really search info online, except you guys
Howcome is a company like Expat Motors could live for a decade, oh cause the foreigners could get info there, and thus confidence, face to face, in English language
Not seen E.P. motors here for a while.
#38
katabeachbum
Posted 2012-02-08 20:44:44
transam, on 2012-02-08 20:23:39, said:
katabeachbum, on 2012-02-08 20:04:55, said:
MoonRiverOasis, on 2012-02-08 16:52:04, said:
transam, on 2012-02-08 16:46:12, said:
BUT, it is so eeeeeeeeeeeeasy to put stuff in English to make sales.
It's also easy to put it in Japanese (which I'm sure some execs would like), and that'd probably be equally effective as English (i.e. hard to justify even minimal effort).
Edit: Somewhere between 60,000 and 100,000 new cars are purchased in Thailand every month. Of those, a maximum of 1% (600-1000 units) can somehow be attributed to Farang buyers/sponsors. From a website perspective, that means it's more worthwhile trying to support web browsers like Internet Explorer 5 and Netscape Navigator 4 (which these days, would be considered ludicrous).
ad to that, most of the foreigners buying cars in Th are +60yo, and dont really search info online, except you guys
Howcome is a company like Expat Motors could live for a decade, oh cause the foreigners could get info there, and thus confidence, face to face, in English language
Not seen E.P. motors here for a while.
they are gone, but not sure if we are allowed to say why, I know you TA know why
Posted 2012-02-09 11:21:18
Was reading in The Nation yesterday that Ford's sales are up 67% over last year mainly due to increased Fiesta and new Ranger sales. With the new Focus out soon and more and more people becoming aware of just how good the new Ranger is I imagine it will be even better next year.
Posted 2012-02-09 17:51:22
Assuming the new Ranger does (as I expect it will) indeed turn out to be a good as it looks.
That said, lot of people buying new cars and trucks this year due to the flood and tax incentives. Shorter lead times on the Fiesta make it very attractive compared to Toyota and Honda.
Posted 2012-02-10 00:23:21
By the comparison,does anybody know how much the Th Motor Corporations spend on advertising here??..or is it set by the global offices? What I mean is,is Th a sole entity,or decided by Ford(or others) in general...numbers please...
Posted 2012-02-10 03:13:23
MESmith, on 2012-02-06 07:42:38, said:
That's the one I drove past yesterday afternoon - didn't stop, but nothing out front to "advertise" the new model. They were both out front a couple of weeks ago, when you posted the photos.
Gee... I guess they sold 'em. Aint that a bitch?
Udon Ford dealer had 3 on the apron for about a week but they miraculously disappeared as well. I did see one of them parked a few weeks later outside a shophouse in town with red plates on and wondered, 'How did THAT happen?'
Posted 2012-02-10 03:21:56
mogandave, on 2012-02-07 19:22:17, said:
It is amazing that none of the car companies have a decent English website. GM's not too bad, but none of them really good.
My wife also gets torqued that there's no decent Thai websites in the UK. Or the US.
Amazing.
Posted 2012-02-10 03:32:21
In the early 1980's in Pattaya, I bought a Ford Telstar TX-5 since it was about 80,000 baht cheaper than the Mazda 626 that all the Thai's were buying at that time. Same underpinnings, different panels and badging. Waited more than 3 weeks for the nearest dealership in Chonburi to get a 'new' one for me despite the fact that I was the ONLY person who took their showroom model for a test drive. Getting that unusual (for Thailand) privilege in itself ate up over a week of cajoling and pleading. Servicing was a major pain in the arse too as the nearest Ford service shop was in Bangkok!
It's much better now apparently.
Posted 2012-02-10 09:23:49
NanLaew, on 2012-02-10 03:21:56, said:
mogandave, on 2012-02-07 19:22:17, said:
It is amazing that none of the car companies have a decent English website. GM's not too bad, but none of them really good.
My wife also gets torqued that there's no decent Thai websites in the UK. Or the US.
Amazing.
Torqued? Really makes me no never-mind. I would not be surprised if they did not have websites in English, what I find amazing is that that large US owned companies have crappy websites. It’s not so much the language, but often links and whole sections of the sites don’t work correctly. The internet has become the research tool of choice for a lot of consumers, and to have a crappy site that doesn’t work well generally does not instill a lot of confidence. I would liken it to a having a cheap, crappy brochure for a high end product.
You might try referring your “torqued” wife to Thai companies that are marketing their products in the US, they generally all have sites in both Thai and English.
Just sayin’
Posted 2012-02-11 01:20:16
skybluestu, on 2012-02-09 11:21:18, said:
Was reading in The Nation yesterday that Ford's sales are up 67% over last year mainly due to increased Fiesta and new Ranger sales. With the new Focus out soon and more and more people becoming aware of just how good the new Ranger is I imagine it will be even better next year.
I'm wondering why you guys assume that the Ranger will be so good? It's a brand new design and manufacturing line. A reoccurring, difficult-to-diagnose and fix electrical problem would be such a headache. Only time will tell but why so confident? I haven't kept up with the Fiesta's reputation but a friend of mine has had so many issues with her 2007-ish Focus.
Posted 2012-02-16 22:38:44
I bought a ford fiesta 1 yr back. I wish I can go back in time and buy the mazda2 instead.
FORD HAS TERRIBLE SERVICE - It's absolutely horrible.
Where should I start.
First the regularly servicing (which I did at month 9 despite only driving it for 8000km instead of the 15000km) took me 3 weeks to book. I called 3 different dealer and 3 weeks was the fastest. I came back with a 1500b labour fee and a small scratch which they insisted was there in the first place. I had to rush to an urgent meeting so did not have the time to have a long argument.
My insurance is up, so the insurance company send me a renewal form for my Honda City. Yes...my honda city...I suppose I can't blame Ford for this but since insurance was arrange via them, I can't help but scratch my head and wonder what happen.
Now 2 months after I did my servicing, when I turn my steering wheel, there is a loud sound - As though it's changing cogs when I am turning my wheel. I fail to understand how a 1yr old car which has just undergone servicing can have that. But fine, I call up Ford on tues. I need to send my car down for the mechanic to check 2 weeks later, if they find fault, I will have to rebook another time for me to send the car for servicing.
I lost it at this time. I told them if my car gets into an accident and I lose control of the car, I will sue Ford. I also told them after I put down I am calling their head office to complain. I got a booking finally on friday.
I am totally disgusted with Ford nowadays. It's like they are just getting the car out of the door and then screw you after that. I can't believe their service of 1 day parts delivery if I can't even get a service booking. If this is the way that they are trying to expand and climb the ranks, I doubt it will ever be successful. I for sure will never buy a Ford again nor ever recommend anyone to.
Maybe they will do a great customer service recovery tomorrow and get me to think of Ford as a decent brand again...but I am highly doubtful.
Posted 2012-02-17 10:51:18
Ethan79, on 2012-02-16 22:38:44, said:
I bought a ford fiesta 1 yr back. I wish I can go back in time and buy the mazda2 instead.
FORD HAS TERRIBLE SERVICE - It's absolutely horrible.
Where should I start.
First the regularly servicing (which I did at month 9 despite only driving it for 8000km instead of the 15000km) took me 3 weeks to book. I called 3 different dealer and 3 weeks was the fastest. I came back with a 1500b labour fee and a small scratch which they insisted was there in the first place. I had to rush to an urgent meeting so did not have the time to have a long argument.
My insurance is up, so the insurance company send me a renewal form for my Honda City. Yes...my honda city...I suppose I can't blame Ford for this but since insurance was arrange via them, I can't help but scratch my head and wonder what happen.
Now 2 months after I did my servicing, when I turn my steering wheel, there is a loud sound - As though it's changing cogs when I am turning my wheel. I fail to understand how a 1yr old car which has just undergone servicing can have that. But fine, I call up Ford on tues. I need to send my car down for the mechanic to check 2 weeks later, if they find fault, I will have to rebook another time for me to send the car for servicing.
I lost it at this time. I told them if my car gets into an accident and I lose control of the car, I will sue Ford. I also told them after I put down I am calling their head office to complain. I got a booking finally on friday.
I am totally disgusted with Ford nowadays. It's like they are just getting the car out of the door and then screw you after that. I can't believe their service of 1 day parts delivery if I can't even get a service booking. If this is the way that they are trying to expand and climb the ranks, I doubt it will ever be successful. I for sure will never buy a Ford again nor ever recommend anyone to.
Maybe they will do a great customer service recovery tomorrow and get me to think of Ford as a decent brand again...but I am highly doubtful.
My worries exactly...love the new track,but do they have a new strategy to improve the service??...telling the truth,I'm always worry whenever I need to do any kind of service here....there is always a possibility that something else will be busted,scratched,or some parts left over,or missing..."mai pen dri"...
Posted 2012-02-17 11:10:01
I’m not clear how Mazda’s service is perceived to be so much better than Ford’s, as many (if not most) of the dealerships used shared resources.
Assuming you don’t get a lemon, how critical is scheduling an oil change every 15Km?
Posted 2012-02-17 11:22:53
mogandave, on 2012-02-17 11:10:01, said:
I’m not clear how Mazda’s service is perceived to be so much better than Ford’s, as many (if not most) of the dealerships used shared resources.
Assuming you don’t get a lemon, how critical is scheduling an oil change every 15Km?
It's critical because you have a major oil leak lol sorry couldn't resist.
I just haven't heard too much bad news about mazda, mostly about ford, but it seems to depend on the particular dealership.
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