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[samsiam]

Building a bird aviary and welding the frame together and getting lotsa holes in the welds...burning through the steel.

Using 1.2mm box steel with the small rods...2.6mm and on 35 amps...

Any hints what doing wrong ??

Got a new invertor welder....last time I welded was maybe 20/25 years ago and seemed to have lost the touch, but even then it was just farm stuff, no great skill.

[Kwasaki]

Not an expert welder but :-

Box steel can be awkward I used brackets and self tapping screws and tack welded up after to stiffen it up a bit more.

Blowing holes as you probably know is too much heat although your amperage sounds very low already.

On a little portable welder I borrowed I just kept practicing first and kept turning down the amperage until I got the welding to my liking.
A dab ba dab a do I found was my technic.

Edited by Kwasaki, 2012-02-06 14:09:26.

[samsiam]

Yeah.....dabba doo is mine too....amazing what an angle grinder can do afterwards.

I did that with the amperage, started at 60 and down down and still at 35 it is making some holes....not all the time, but its not pretty and I can fill up the holes with patience....then grind n paint and should not notice to much.....

Practicing before I started the job I could do nice long straight welds down the tube....but then joining to angled bits together it turns to shit.

Edited by samsiam, 2012-02-06 14:47:08.

[Wavefloater]

It's been a long time since I've burned any metal, but with metal that thin, I'd probably use an oxyacetylene system with filler rods rather than an arc welder.

[JBL]

All I can say is MIG is the only way to fly with thin stuff or learn to strike & move
Very quick & even then it's like bird pooh


JBL

[Soutpeel]

Easy...

Using 1.2mm box steel with the small rods...2.6mm and on 35 amps.

Your electrodes are too big....the smallest rod you can get is 1.6mm and you are trying to weld 1.2mm NWT...

SMAW (stick)  doesnt lend itself very well to thin wall, hence the reason you are burning through/birdshitting even at  relatively low amps...

for thin wall....MIG/MAG (GMAW) or Tig (GTAW) are the preferred but as someone else mentioned Oxyacetylene would also work

[stoneyboy]

Wavefloater, on 2012-02-06 14:52:17, said:

It's been a long time since I've burned any metal, but with metal that thin, I'd probably use an oxyacetylene system with filler rods rather than an arc welder.

While the idea of using oxyacetylene is valid,if the op has never done it before its highly unlikely he is going to be any better off,ideally a mig set would probably be the best way to go especially for someone who has little or no previous experience.

Anyone with any welding savvy would of course opt for TIG,given that the user has so much control over the arc and wire,it's far easier to pulse on/off with this method,still people don't just pick up TIG welding and weld like welders.

Realistically without changing from one process to another,it would be best to go with the 1.6 rods,on a low heat,try to flick the rods up and down,also it's best to weld on negative,we mostly root pipe on negative it allows the weld pool to freeze quicker.

[samsiam]

I am not going out to buy a mig or oxy set just to do this aviary project.....so have to make do with what I have.

Construction shop said 2.6 was the smallest they had.....shall try to hunt down smaller then.

Got the first stage complete today....amazing and grinded not to bad....well it is bad but thats life.

[stoneyboy]

samsiam, on 2012-02-06 16:36:19, said:

I am not going out to buy a mig or oxy set just to do this aviary project.....so have to make do with what I have.

Construction shop said 2.6 was the smallest they had.....shall try to hunt down smaller then.

Got the first stage complete today....amazing and grinded not to bad....well it is bad but thats life.

I quite agree,next time buy some pop rivets and a rivet gun.

[Soutpeel]

samsiam, on 2012-02-06 16:36:19, said:

I am not going out to buy a mig or oxy set just to do this aviary project.....so have to make do with what I have.

Construction shop said 2.6 was the smallest they had.....shall try to hunt down smaller then.

Got the first stage complete today....amazing and grinded not to bad....well it is bad but thats life.

the smallest size are 1.6mm...but this is not going to help you very much either....you are trying to arc weld 1.2mm material...this is literally sheet you are trying to weld.....all to do with heat input vs NWT....basic welding engineering

[Soutpeel]

stoneyboy, on 2012-02-06 16:42:21, said:

samsiam, on 2012-02-06 16:36:19, said:

I am not going out to buy a mig or oxy set just to do this aviary project.....so have to make do with what I have.

Construction shop said 2.6 was the smallest they had.....shall try to hunt down smaller then.

Got the first stage complete today....amazing and grinded not to bad....well it is bad but thats life.

I quite agree,next time buy some pop rivets and a rivet gun.

Superglue or expoxy resin would work as well..LOL

[samsiam]

So if its all against me.....then I must be doing a ripper of a job cos at least its sticking together......so far.

So is it not worth hunting down 1.6mm rods then ??

Dun wanna waste my time when i could use it grinding all the lumps off..

[stoneyboy]

If its holding together and you can make it look something with a grinder then so be it,seems that is the way forward,is anyone going to come round and pick holes in it ( excuse the pun ).

[samsiam]

They'll see the holes before picking on it......not big enough for the animals to escape through but.

[Soutpeel]

samsiam, on 2012-02-06 16:51:56, said:

So if its all against me.....then I must be doing a ripper of a job cos at least its sticking together......so far.

So is it not worth hunting down 1.6mm rods then ??

Dun wanna waste my time when i could use it grinding all the lumps off..

and would guess if you crack it with a hammer it will all fall apart as well, big difference between "sticking it together" and welding it properly..LOL.....if you are happy with birdshitting it together then thats your call.....but you asked what the problem is and got the answer.

1.6mm will help a bit, but you are still going to burn through and birdshit on 1.2mm wall thickness material even at very low amps...SMAW (stick) is not meant for very thin material and 1.2mm is thin material.

[Kwasaki]

samsiam, on 2012-02-06 16:51:56, said:

So if its all against me.....then I must be doing a ripper of a job cos at least its sticking together......so far.

So is it not worth hunting down 1.6mm rods then ??

Dun wanna waste my time when i could use it grinding all the lumps off..

I would say your doing OK, when your finished, take a picture and send it to a metal art gallery, you may get a fortune.

If you were to put pieces of ali inside the box steel where you weld it would help a lot but means poncing about.

[samsiam]

Got welders flash today...twice....hope it does not get worse tonight....had it decades ago and is a horrible infliction..especially at night.

I put 2 icy teabags on them for 20 minutes and sucked a G & T through a straw.

As for the job....well I am melting steel and it is sticking together....cant be all bad.

[Soutpeel]

samsiam, on 2012-02-07 17:49:14, said:

Got welders flash today...twice....hope it does not get worse tonight....had it decades ago and is a horrible infliction..especially at night.

I put 2 icy teabags on them for 20 minutes and sucked a G & T through a straw.

As for the job....well I am melting steel and it is sticking together....cant be all bad.

Please tell you are not trying to weld (or in your case birdshit) with sunglasses on or something as stupid as that ??
Arc eye is no joke....but do agree G&T does help the symptoms...

[andrew55]

Light box section can be frustrating especially vertical and overhead

1.6mm electrodes are available - you might need to try a couple of shops but you will get them. Worth the effort so  go shopping. They'll make a difference as you will be able to maintain an arc for longer at the lower amperage. The dab dab things isn't good enough. You need to try to weld for 1 or maybe 2 seconds, stop for 1/2 a second, touch and weld for 1 or 2 secs...You get it. Use 2 hands on the handpiece and try to prop an elbow or hip on something. Hope I'm not sounding patronising.

The inverter unit is fine.

Keep electrodes dry.

Good power source helps. Good extensions and no longer than needed.

If you're welding outside give it a miss when windy.

Don't get too many of those flashes.

Your 2nd aviary will be great.

ps. I'm not an expert. (edit)

Edited by andrew55, 2012-02-08 08:34:16.

[samsiam]

Soutpeel, on 2012-02-08 07:25:32, said:

samsiam, on 2012-02-07 17:49:14, said:

Got welders flash today...twice....hope it does not get worse tonight....had it decades ago and is a horrible infliction..especially at night.

I put 2 icy teabags on them for 20 minutes and sucked a G & T through a straw.

As for the job....well I am melting steel and it is sticking together....cant be all bad.

Please tell you are not trying to weld (or in your case birdshit) with sunglasses on or something as stupid as that ??
Arc eye is no joke....but do agree G&T does help the symptoms...

No, I have a pair of 3d glasses from the cinema.

andrew55, on 2012-02-08 08:31:29, said:

Your 2nd aviary will be great.

ps. I'm not an expert. (edit)

Funny that....bought enough steel to build a second one and just doing this first one to set the standard...then the 2nd one.

Could nt find any 1.6mm rods today.... persevere  with these by the looks.

Bloody near melted me thongs today.

Eyes were a tad sore for 2 days, but nothing compared to years ago with real proper flash...t-bags helped...but did not realise afterwards I was walking around the rest of the day with tea leaves stuck to me eyelids.




.

Edited by samsiam, 2012-02-10 19:21:43.

[samsiam]

Also....anyone had any experience fastening the thin wire mesh to the frame....wondering best method. Don't want to tie with wire, looks ugly.....way to thin to weld.

[KRS1]

Guess you didnt realize you could order pre welded fencing.

[samsiam]

Its not a fence......and if I wanted it all 'pre' done.....why would I bother doing it myself, may as well of just hired someone to do it.....duh

Edited by samsiam, 2012-02-12 10:50:01.

[samsiam]

Broke all my drill bits yesdy.....bugger.....took all the pieces to a shop up the road to drill them for me......hope I measured right......hope they drill in the right spot....maybe I should have waited.

[KRS1]

Well it appears that if you have to ask how to weld, thats its quite possible someone can do it better and cheaper than what you may be capable of doing.

duh