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[ShanePashen]

Hi All
I would very much appreciate some advice, and yes I am doing as much as I can to get up to speed on all of this. My GF applied to DIAC for a subclass 676 3 Mth holiday visa.
I helped her with the application, and was a sponsor which I thought was a good thing, including my reasonably strong financials, photo's, detailed records of our time together. Affadavits, etc I offered to pay medical insurance,plans for her holiday here. Neither of Us have any criminal history, to cut a long story short it was rejected, due to her not having enough funds to support her, and her work records. No job letter offering her a job to go back to after 3 mths.
So I really want to be with her no matter what, and we plan to marry. i was advised not to just dump a large sum of money in her bank account.
there is a 16 year age gap between us, is this an issue.
Should i consult an immigration lawyer, will there be a black mark against us now.

i am going back to see her in a month, what can i do to help our situation.
i am not sure where to go from here.

[Lite Beer]

I am hoping that I moved this to the correct place.

[ShanePashen]

I realise at this point, it was quite naive, to not add strong supporting documentation for her to return to Thailand.
However I guess we were both very green before we made that application.
So at this point if anyone can offer me any sound advice as to what our next course of action should be, I'd be more than appreciative.

[Will27]

For starters, you should probably start by seeing if the mods can change the heading to 676 visa and add Australia in.

You really need to give some more information with regards to your relationship. Quite often you can get a standard
"cut and paste" job for the refusal if it isn't a strong application. The funds shouldn't be an issue if you decide to sponsor
the holiday.

It seems to me that you might've rushed into this and therefore DIAC have some concerns. How long have you known her?
What does she do for a living etc etc? Has she travelled before? Give us a bit to go with.

Quite often, and I'm not saying this is correct in your instance, is that people go for a holiday, meet the "girl of their dreams"
after a 1 month holiday and then think it's just a matter of putting in an application.

There is a wealth of information on this forum if you decide to do a bit of research.

To answer some of your other questions, the age difference isn't an issue and she won't reeally have a "black mark" agaisnt
her name unless she has a "history" with DIAC.

It's up to you if you want to hire an agent. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourselves, go ahead. Having said that, it's not
a hard application but some people just aren't good at paper work.

[ShanePashen]

Thankyou Will27

OK
I have known her for about 9 mths, I was introduced to her through my friends wife who is thai, and is now a temporary visa resident.
I like may am divorced now for two years, as I am writing this, it is sounding so cliched actually.
We corresponded through social media, facebook  skype for some 6 mths, She currently works in a beauty Spa in Jungceylon in Patong.
I went to Phuket to meet her & spent 16 days with her over Xmas, that is the only time we have met. She is an Isan girl from Ubon ratchitani, has strong family ties.
We talk nightly for hours either by phone or IM. I don't send her any money, nor has she asked for any.
I paid all our visa application fees.
Yes for sure we probably jumped the gun with the application.
I felt naively we put in a good visa application.
However it didn't prove to be the case.
I feel, that if i could live with her here for 3 Mths, It would give both of us a strong indication of if she liked it here and w would be compatible as a married couple.
I genuinely feel i do love her and i could be very happy with her a life partner.
She is 30 never married no kids, i am just turned 46.
So there you have it in a nutshell.
I care for her enough to not mind throwing whatever resources at this, tat it may take.
I will listen to all advice, no matter how brutal it may be.

[Lite Beer]

Off Topic post deleted.

[Will27]

ShanePashen, on 2012-02-06 22:47:01, said:

Thankyou Will27

OK
I have known her for about 9 mths, I was introduced to her through my friends wife who is thai, and is now a temporary visa resident.
I like may am divorced now for two years, as I am writing this, it is sounding so cliched actually.
We corresponded through social media, facebook  skype for some 6 mths, She currently works in a beauty Spa in Jungceylon in Patong.
I went to Phuket to meet her & spent 16 days with her over Xmas, that is the only time we have met. She is an Isan girl from Ubon ratchitani, has strong family ties.
We talk nightly for hours either by phone or IM. I don't send her any money, nor has she asked for any.
I paid all our visa application fees.
Yes for sure we probably jumped the gun with the application.
I felt naively we put in a good visa application.
However it didn't prove to be the case.
I feel, that if i could live with her here for 3 Mths, It would give both of us a strong indication of if she liked it here and w would be compatible as a married couple.
I genuinely feel i do love her and i could be very happy with her a life partner.
She is 30 never married no kids, i am just turned 46.
So there you have it in a nutshell.
I care for her enough to not mind throwing whatever resources at this, tat it may take.
I will listen to all advice, no matter how brutal it may be.

No probs.

The first bit of advice I can offer you is to slow down. You've only spent 16 days with the girl
and are already professing love, marriage and a life partner. The ink is hardly dry on your divorce
papers.

How good is her English? I'm not trying to be rude here but what type of "spa" is it?
Did her work give her 16 days off to spend with you, and then is prepared to give
her 3 months off to go to Australia? Have you seen where she works? I'm just saying be cautious.

Go and spend some more time with her next month and see what develops. You're in the "honeymoon"
stage now where everything is exciting and you're stuck back in Australia and it's driving you crazy.

Also, I think it's best to try and bring her over for maybe month to start with. Three months to be away
from home and family in a new country and possibly being by herself for large periods while you're at
work won't be great.

Good luck

Regards

Will

Edited by Will27, 2012-02-06 23:08:16.

[ShanePashen]

Ok what should i have done differently, i don't know tell me, dropped 5- 7 grand in her A/c? she just changed a couple of jobs, so didnt have a great track record at the moment. I trust her, maybe i am a fool. she has showed me no reason not too.
She as really strong fmily ties, should've focused more on that?
I'm listening to any frank advice.

[Will27]

ShanePashen, on 2012-02-06 23:07:09, said:

Ok what should i have done differently, i don't know tell me, dropped 5- 7 grand in her A/c? she just changed a couple of jobs, so didnt have a great track record at the moment. I trust her, maybe i am a fool. she has showed me no reason not too.
She as really strong fmily ties, should've focused more on that?
I'm listening to any frank advice.

Putting money in her account like that won't help at all and will more than likely have a detremental affect.
DIAC aren't complete idiots. Regardless of the letter, I can assure you that she wasn't knocked back for
financial reasons if you were prepared to sponsor her.

DIAC obviously have some concerns about her, plus add that you've only met herin person for 16 days and they
can see some flashing lights.

You seem to have avoided the "big" one about her work. What is not a "great track record"?
I have the feeling your girl may be working in the "massage" game.

A lot of guys come on here and are in denial and then when things go's tit's up wonder why.

Regards

Will

Edited by Will27, 2012-02-06 23:31:49.

[whybother]

Why 3 months?  Why not just a couple of weeks for her to see what it's like.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[ShanePashen]

Yes without doubt there is some sound advice to be had.
And also there's no fool like an old fool.
Having said that, she does work in a reputable Spa in a major shopping centre, big C Jungceylon, Patong, with about 18 other beauticians, in an open environment.
Without doubt I do needed to cool my heels, and "suck it up" what has happened.
keep building on our relationship.
and have another go down the track.

The reason i wanted 3 mths was to trial if she liked, and could adapt to Australian culture.
And if we could just live in a day to day relationship, and see how it went.

She also happens to be an absolute stunner, which I'm sure is not helping my objectivity at this point.

I'm going back on 4th to 20th march to see her,so we will see what unfolds.

[ShanePashen]

Thanks Will, for your thoughts,
I am relatively confident she is not working in the "happy ending" massage game.
He spoken and written English are reasonable.
She has never travelled outside LOS and has basically no money, which I don't care about.

I'm gonna digress here but...The last woman I dated here in Brisbane, was 37, very good looking, also had no money, 3 kids, and all she did was expect me to pay for everything for her and her kids,, I stupidly let hermove into my house, she contributed zero, nothing, and I have since realised in our 6 mth "relationship".
she did nothing but see every other bloke she could behind my back at every possible opportunity!
She would make a Pattaya BG, look an angel!

My friends wife knows MY Thai GF well, and knows her background. I have spoken to her at length and her family have land in Isaan, and she has land in her name.
All of which can be documented.
I would like to be proactive now, in giving DIAC all the correct criteria they require, to grant that visa, and yes I am kicking myself for not researching this more, before the stupidly rushed application.
I will return to see her in march, and build on our case of an ongoing relationship.

As I would like our next application to be more formally prepared, can anyone recommend a good immigration agent/Lawyer in Brisbane.
If anyone can offer advice in the meantime as to what I should continue to do, in terms of gathering evidence.
Her current employer will offer her a return  job letter in 3 mths time.
thanks for those who gave me constructive advice.

Edited by ShanePashen, 2012-02-07 09:01:12.

[ProThaiExpat]

Next to the US, Australia is one of the toughest countries for single thai citizens to get a visa as they are high wage countries compared to Thailand for those working in the "service" industries and my guess is there is a higher percentage of overstays in this group of applicants.

You lady friend falls clearly in this category and a monumental effort will be required to get a visa for her, especially as you are in Australia and the love connection is the second most damaging category for overstays.

The compelling reason to return mantra is controlling and if that wasn't hit hard on the first application, it was doomed from the start.

Only after having established a long and sustained relationship will you have any chance, in my view and that is only after you a strengthened to the maximum her compelling reasons to return to Thailand after a short first visit.

While the minimum visa is for three months, a two or three week holiday buttressed with a very tight itinerary will help persuading that she is truly going to Australia for a familiarity visit.

If you had posted before making your first attempt many of the replies would have been "no chance" opinions and now with one strike against you, a major effort will be required and only after more time together has occurred.

[whybother]

ShanePashen, on 2012-02-07 08:53:27, said:

...
As I would like our next application to be more formally prepared, can anyone recommend a good immigration agent/Lawyer in Brisbane.
If anyone can offer advice in the meantime as to what I should continue to do, in terms of gathering evidence.
Her current employer will offer her a return  job letter in 3 mths time.
thanks for those who gave me constructive advice.

Basically, she has NO reason to return to Thailand, so you are going to find it very difficult to get her a visa.

[Will27]

ShanePashen, on 2012-02-07 08:53:27, said:

Thanks Will, for your thoughts,
I am relatively confident she is not working in the "happy ending" massage game.
He spoken and written English are reasonable.
She has never travelled outside LOS and has basically no money, which I don't care about.

I'm gonna digress here but...The last woman I dated here in Brisbane, was 37, very good looking, also had no money, 3 kids, and all she did was expect me to pay for everything for her and her kids,, I stupidly let hermove into my house, she contributed zero, nothing, and I have since realised in our 6 mth "relationship".
she did nothing but see every other bloke she could behind my back at every possible opportunity!
She would make a Pattaya BG, look an angel!

My friends wife knows MY Thai GF well, and knows her background. I have spoken to her at length and her family have land in Isaan, and she has land in her name.
All of which can be documented.
I would like to be proactive now, in giving DIAC all the correct criteria they require, to grant that visa, and yes I am kicking myself for not researching this more, before the stupidly rushed application.
I will return to see her in march, and build on our case of an ongoing relationship.

As I would like our next application to be more formally prepared, can anyone recommend a good immigration agent/Lawyer in Brisbane.
If anyone can offer advice in the meantime as to what I should continue to do, in terms of gathering evidence.
Her current employer will offer her a return  job letter in 3 mths time.
thanks for those who gave me constructive advice.

As has been advised, it isn't going to be that easy. Again, your main problem (apart from reasons to go back) is that you've only spent
16 days with her.

A letter from her employer will help as will requesting a shorter period of stay. She also has family so that is another reason you can add.
At least next month you will add some more time being spent with her. I personally would wait a while longer but you seem intent on going
ahead so why don't you seek out an agent while you're in Thailand?

Are you 100% sure she doesn't have any kids or has been married? Not saying it isn't true but it's not that common with Thai's.

Regards

Will

[David48]

Hi there Shane ... just before potentially the negative comments flood in listen to the advice of a few of the old hands here because we all have rowed that boat that you are in now.

The advice that you have received thus far is good, solid, hard earned advice and you would do well to heed it.

Also, do your self a favour and use the search function located on the top of this page (that is if Thai Visa has fixed it yet ... and if not google 'Thai Visa and bla bla (your question)).

Understand a few things first about the cultural differences between the Thai Culture and the Western Culture ... all girls are not born equal!  What you think passes for a fair thing in Australia is not the same as in Thailand.

For example ... if you were to tell your girlfriend that you were going to 'lend' her $7,000 on the assumption that she will return the money to you after the successful Visa application ...

Your 'loan' becomes a gift.

Your $7,000 loan in relative Thai wages is ... 200 Baht a day = 1,200 Baht a (6 day) week or 62,400 Baht a year.  You have just 'lent' her 3 1/3 years salary.

What would you do if a woman from another country who you met for 16 days gave you $210,000 (3 1/3 years of YOUR salary ... though I am sure that you earn more money) ... I don't know about you ... but I'd be thinking JACKPOT !!!

So the advice you have received thus far is slow down.  She's waited 30 odd years to meet the man of her dreams ... she can wait 6 months more while you transition from a holiday romance to a more stable genuine girlfriend.

Fly up to Ubon and meet her parents ... make lots of photos, prove the relationship in a tangible way to the officials in the Australian Embassy.

The #1 reason reported here by posters on 'why my Thai Girlfriend was not granted a tourist visa' was not proving an irrefutable or compelling reason to return to Thailand once the Visa had finished.

Your statement of

Quote

I really want to be with her no matter what, and we plan to marry

REALLY WORRIES ME/US (speaking on behalf of other posters here) ... because a 16 days with each other into life together for ever.

Really spend some time trying to understand the Thai Culture because when you marry a Thai girl, you just don't marry her ... you marry the whole extended family.

There is so much more adive to give, but better you research it for yourself ... that way it has some meaning to you.

You have the potential to have an amazing relationship ... but prove it to yourself and her family by taking your time, develop those strong Cultural and personal bonds and reapply and you might be surprised with the result.

Chok Dee

[ShanePashen]

Hi
Yes I'm absolutely certain she has no kids and hasn't been married.
I am now not planning on making an application for another 3 Mths while we build a case for her return.

[ShanePashen]

yes it seems I am behaving a little irrationally. I will heed the advice of  the experienced people here, and build on our relationship.
I have had many relationships in my life, but I do honestly feel a special connection with her, so don't want to mess it up.
How would i go about finding a GOOD agent in Thailand?

[David48]

ShanePashen, on 2012-02-07 13:05:23, said:

yes it seems I am behaving a little irrationally. I will heed the advice of  the experienced people here, and build on our relationship.
I have had many relationships in my life, but I do honestly feel a special connection with her, so don't want to mess it up.
How would i go about finding a GOOD agent in Thailand?

You really don't need an agent for the class of Visa you are applying for.
You just need a solid application.
My experience is that when applying for the Visa, do it in person and do it together and dress appropiately
etc.

[Will27]

ShanePashen, on 2012-02-07 13:05:23, said:

yes it seems I am behaving a little irrationally. I will heed the advice of  the experienced people here, and build on our relationship.
I have had many relationships in my life, but I do honestly feel a special connection with her, so don't want to mess it up.
How would i go about finding a GOOD agent in Thailand?

like I said earlier, it's not a hard application but some people aren't that good with paper work.
It seems that you would feel more comfortable with an agent so contact one of the forum sponsors
listed here. Bridge was very good but I'm not sure if he still works.

Either way, I'm sure it won't be that expensive for a S/C 676 application.

Regards

Will

Edited by Will27, 2012-02-07 13:35:02.

[aussiebob]

Shane,
Slow down.
Take stock.
Ignore pessimests.
Heed good advice (david48)
My story is nearly identical to your own. Our introduction was the same way. We corresponded for about 6 months by email before i bit the bullet and went over to meet her. I stayed with her family in isaan for 4 weeks getting to know each other while she alternated between working in the Gov, office and taking some time off to show me the sights.
When it was time to come home to Oz she came to Bangkok with me and we submitted an ill prepred visa application.
Fast forward 5 months armed to the teeth with evidence of our continuing correspondence, details of my finances and our wish to be able to continue our relationship, my prtner wqas duly issue with a12 month M/E visa.
We did not use an agent.
I did not at any stage send her any money.
Her bank account was minimal (it was not loaded up)
In my view the fact we had previously submiited an application only enhanced the strength of the application
Dont despair. 6months is a spit in the ocean, especially if your going over again in march. Cheers Bob

[Wallaby]

You are getting some very good advice re your application, especially from Will.

I have had my girl out to oz on 2 visas.  First for 3 months and the second for 6 months.  The 3 month stay went very fast and we had a ball.  We are now half way through the 6 month stay and she's getting a bit bored.  Luckily I have the internet at home so she can pass the time on that.  So if you get her out here be sure to have some plans for her to do things whilst you are at work.  I even took mine to a Thai Wat as I thought it would be good for her to mix with other Thais but she didn't like it, said she isn't really interested in meeting Thais in oz.  Don't blame her, I don't like to mix with aussies when I go overseas.

It seems to me that main issue with your visa is the time you have been together.  I applied for the first visa only after I could prove I was in a relationship with her for 6 months.  I submitted heaps of emails and my phone records.  I also had hotel bookings where both names are listed on the booking.  Give as much info as possible to show you have a genuine long term relationship.

The other issue is the 'return to Thailand'.  In my application I relied on her ties to family and how much she is needed to take care of her parents etc etc and that one of her brothers will take over her role whilst she is away but cannot take her role full time so she must return etc.

Don't put any money in her account.  It is of no use at all, you are her sponsor so it is only you that has to show you have the funds to take care of her whilst she is here.  Health insurance is a matter for you, I don't think it matters one way or the other re the application.

Just concentrate on proving a long established relationship and a good reason for her to return and you should be good.

Good luck and I hope you get her out soon and have a ball.  It sure is an eye opener for them, especially how much everything costs.

[aussiebob]

And by the way we submitted no evidence to show she had reason to return to thailand.In fact they would have known she would have to quit her Gov job to take advantage of the 12 moth M/E visa.Also we have now been married 5 years
Bob

[Thongkorn]

I don't see why they rejected your visa application for lack of her funds, when  My now wife applied for a Holiday Visa to come to the UK she had only 3200 baht in the bank, but had a history from her Bank book, her wages where paid in every month, Also she was made redundant and had no Job to return to after her Holiday, We was granted a Visa.
Maybe  you did not prove your relationship enough, put photos in of you together,write a letter of your relationship History , write a letter saying you will provide for her while she stays in Your County.

Just dumping a large amount of money in her bank will do nothing maybe she will spend it, The Boarder Agencys are not stupid, they will ask how it got there in one lump. Does your girl relay want to be with you in your County, thats the question, and who's idea to put money in her Bank.  Her reason to return is always the biggest thing to prove.

Edited by Thongkorn, 2012-02-07 20:55:11.

[ShanePashen]

Everything in my life is always hard for me.

Ok What I showed in 676 visa app
detailed financials showing, home ownership.
a mortgage of $78 pr week, house recently valued at $450K. I only  owe $20k or thereabouts on it.
$30K in advance on repayments, available to redraw in 24hrs
$9K in cash on hand, self employed. so bank statements
$5K available on credit card.
No other debts, true but hard to show.

Notarised affadiavit, explaining in total honesty, length of time known 9 mths.
Time spent together 16 days, records of emails, and many photos together.
That I would fully financially support her, and she would stay in my owned home.
An invitation and a itinerary for her time just under 3 mths, flights booked in and out.
That I would take out a travel insurnace policy for her including medical.
That I was aware of complying with DIAC, and the gravity of any non compliance.

response on failed application please excuse any spelling gramatical errors.


There is no right of merits for this decision

If the applicant still wishes to visit Australia, it is open to them to lodge a fresh applicantion if they feel
that can provide sufficient evidence that they meet the criterria for the grant of a visitor visa. I encourage the applicant to carefully consider this option, as there is no refund of an applicantion charge if it is not successful. Without prejudice to the outcome , experience shows that if a fresh application done not contain any new information , it is unlikely that the decision would be any different.

REASONS FOR DECISION

Under migration law, an application is made for a class of visa and your application must be considered against the criteria for all subclass within that visa class.

There is one subclass of visa in the class that you applied for. This is Tourist (classTR)(subclass676)visa.
Under migration law, a visa cannot be granted unless the applicant meets the legal requirements that are specified in the Act and the Reegulation. You do not meet the legal requirement in clause 676.21 in in schedule 2 of the Regulation on the date i made my decision. clause 676.211 states that.
The applicant satisfies the the minister that the applicant expressed to only visit australia is genuine.

You have stated on your application form that you wish to travel to Australia between 25,02,2012-21,05,2012. You have stated that the reason for travel is for tourist and to visit your boyfriend. You have stated that your boyfriend will support you financially and accommodation during your stay in Australia.

I considered that you are unable to provide substantive evidence on employment. based on the applicant lack of strong employment in Thailand, I am  not satisfied that you have sufficient incentive to leave Australia at the end of your anthorised stay or to abide by the conditions of your visa.

The evidence of money you have provided in support of your visa application done not appear to be sufficient for personal support during your proposed visit to Australia. in this regard, i note that your bank statement ..... i consider that this amount is insufficient to support your proposed travel plans and ensure that you will abide by the relevant visa conditions. It should also be note that offers of support (including statutory declarations) from Australian friends or relatives, including evidence of the nature and duration of relationship, is taken into account such offers in themselver are only one factor in considering if an applicant intends a genuine visit.

overall, for a tourist visa it is the circumstances of the applicant themselves, above all, which must be considered

DECISION

As you do not meet clause 676.211 in schedule 2 of the Regulations, i find that you do not meet the criteria for the grant of a tourist (classTR)(SUBCLASS676) visa.

Therefore, I refuse your application for a tourist (classTR)(subclass676) visa lodged at bangkok.


So there you have it..  mostly seems to be job letter, Althought it does seem they took into A/c her lack of funds.


WTF Now!