142 replies to this topic
Posted 2012-02-07 21:06:21
Thailand is a Buddhist country with a good measure of tolerance for other belief systems. Ignoring the well worn debate about whether Buddhism is a "real" religion or not, how goes it for Thai people who have decided to believe in NO spiritually oriented belief system?
Obviously, in western Europe, it is no problem at all, in many parts of American being an atheist is strongly stigmatized and generally disqualifies you for political office. But what about Thailand?
A discussion of the social acceptance problems for atheists in America here:
http://www.slate.com..._atheists_.html
Quote America is the well-known exception to the rule that the wealthier and better-educated a country is, the less religious its population. As a Pew Research Center report put it, when it comes to religiosity, “the US is closer to considerably less developed nations, such as India, Brazil and Lebanon than to other western nations.” But what is less discussed is what this means for the minority who are not just apathetic about their faith, but have actively rejected it.
Edited by Jingthing, 2012-02-07 21:07:35.
Posted 2012-02-07 21:43:20
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
Posted 2012-02-07 21:55:42
Buddha never claimed to be a God, so am not sure that not thinking that he was would be a big problem. 
Posted 2012-02-07 22:07:51
 andrew55, on 2012-02-07 21:43:20, said:
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
No, I don't! Which is why I'm curious how a Thai who openly voiced no such beliefs would be accepted in Thai society. Quite frankly, it seems to me that any Thais that are openly atheist would more likely be educated in the west, thus making them weirdos by definition, yes?
Edited by Jingthing, 2012-02-07 22:17:31.
Posted 2012-02-07 22:09:57
Ulysses G., on 2012-02-07 21:55:42, said:
Buddha never claimed to be a God, so am not sure that not thinking that he was would be a big problem. I ask people please to not get into this old rathole about the "validity" of Buddhism as a religion. That has been done till life after death on this and countless other forums. It definitely IS a spiritually based belief system and that's what I'm talking about. An atheist believes in NO such systems.
Posted 2012-02-07 22:18:14
Ulysses G., on 2012-02-07 21:55:42, said:
Buddha never claimed to be a God, so am not sure that not thinking that he was would be a big problem.
Don't think that op was speaking a god belief.
Spiritual.
Reckon Buddha was probably a fairly spiritual sort of a chap. Apparently did a bit of meditating and stuff.
Won't mention Buddha again. 
I will be interesting to see if there are such things as atheist Thais.
Edited by andrew55, 2012-02-07 22:24:12.
Posted 2012-02-07 22:42:49
Jingthing, on 2012-02-07 22:07:51, said:
andrew55, on 2012-02-07 21:43:20, said:
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
Thais that are openly atheist would more likely be educated in the west, thus making them weirdos by definition, yes?
Not sure I understand the weirdos by definition bit.
Guess you're right about the more western Thais being most likely. But then there's the American thing...
Maybe if Thai atheists exist they keep it to themselves and do the show to a degree out of politeness. Would anybody notice if a Thai was atheist?
Doubt there's a whole bunch of 'em out there, but always happy to stand corrected.
Edited by andrew55, 2012-02-07 22:43:50.
Posted 2012-02-07 22:56:02
andrew55, on 2012-02-07 21:43:20, said:
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
Yes, quite a few. They don't seem to suffer any social stigma either. One experience that springs to mind is a Thai guy insisting we visit a French graveyard in Laos to prove to me that he didn't believe in ghosts/spirits. I declined his offer due to lack of interest.
Posted 2012-02-07 23:04:27
lovelaos, on 2012-02-07 22:56:02, said:
andrew55, on 2012-02-07 21:43:20, said:
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
Yes, quite a few. They don't seem to suffer any social stigma either. One experience that springs to mind is a Thai guy insisting we visit a French graveyard in Laos to prove to me that he didn't believe in ghosts/spirits. I declined his offer due to lack of interest.
Fair enough. I would have been surprised if there was a stigma.
Posted 2012-02-08 00:01:50
I am totally not convinced.
For example, if Yingluck who barely said anything to get elected for well understood reasons HAD announced, by the way, I am an avowed atheist, I hold no religious or spiritual beliefs and am not interested in representing the Buddhist culture of Thailand in my government, would she have STILL won?
Edited by Jingthing, 2012-02-08 00:02:19.
Posted 2012-02-08 00:06:17
lovelaos, on 2012-02-07 22:56:02, said:
andrew55, on 2012-02-07 21:43:20, said:
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
Yes, quite a few. They don't seem to suffer any social stigma either. One experience that springs to mind is a Thai guy insisting we visit a French graveyard in Laos to prove to me that he didn't believe in ghosts/spirits. I declined his offer due to lack of interest.
While it is true from my understanding that most Thais do believe in ghosts, for a Thai to assert they don't believe in ghosts is certainly not the same thing as a Thai being open about being an ATHEIST. Also, the ghost thing I think is more of the animist tradition here that is more ancient than Buddhism.
Posted 2012-02-08 00:19:27
"According to the Government's National Statistics Office, approximately 94 percent of the population is Buddhist, and 5 percent is Muslim; however, recent estimates by other government agencies, academics, and religious groups state that approximately 85 to 90 percent of the population is Theravada Buddhist, and up to 10 percent of the population is Muslim. Estimates also indicate that Christians constitute approximately 1 to 2 percent of the population. There are small animist, Hindu, Sikh, Taoist, Jewish, and Confucian populations. No official statistics exist as to the numbers of atheists or persons who do not profess a religious faith or belief, but recent surveys indicate that together they make up less than 1 percent of the population".
http://atheism.about...rf_thailand.htm
Posted 2012-02-08 00:26:27
Yeah one percent sounds about right for Thailand and countries like Thailand. So for those one percent, do they feel they had better shut up about it or do they feel free to be open about it? I think most will probably agree it's not something a Thai prime minister could be open about.
Posted 2012-02-08 00:35:59
I know a well-educated and rather westernised Thai woman who is a devout atheist. This hasn't been a social or career barrier to her. I know even more Buddhist Thais who are only Buddhist in the same way that most English people are CofE. Remember that China is an atheist country and many successful Thais are of Chinese descent. Many are only nominal Buddhists. I really don't think religion is any barrier at all in Thailand.
Edited by edwardandtubs, 2012-02-08 00:36:25.
Posted 2012-02-08 00:40:03
Jingthing, on 2012-02-08 00:01:50, said: I am totally not convinced. For example, if Yingluck who barely said anything to get elected for well understood reasons HAD announced, by the way, I am an avowed atheist, I hold no religious or spiritual beliefs and am not interested in representing the Buddhist culture of Thailand in my government, would she have STILL won?
No, of course not. Politicians have to pander to the religious majority in any country in order to get elected.
Posted 2012-02-08 00:42:40
Jingthing, on 2012-02-08 00:06:17, said:
lovelaos, on 2012-02-07 22:56:02, said:
andrew55, on 2012-02-07 21:43:20, said:
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
Yes, quite a few. They don't seem to suffer any social stigma either. One experience that springs to mind is a Thai guy insisting we visit a French graveyard in Laos to prove to me that he didn't believe in ghosts/spirits. I declined his offer due to lack of interest.
While it is true from my understanding that most Thais do believe in ghosts, for a Thai to assert they don't believe in ghosts is certainly not the same thing as a Thai being open about being an ATHEIST. Also, the ghost thing I think is more of the animist tradition here that is more ancient than Buddhism.
Indeed, perhaps that was a bad example. Here's another one.
A Laotian man I know who had just been released from a Thai prison for smuggling drugs, claimed to be a Jehovah Witness. Upon further discussion it seems he was pretending to 'believe' for sinister reasons involving a rather niaive, rich, local farang believer / recruiter. He later announced he was an athiest. The fact that he was an athiest didn't cause any social stigma. The fact that he was a heavily tatooed, muay lao, ex prisoner however, did.
Posted 2012-02-08 00:46:37
lovelaos, on 2012-02-08 00:42:40, said:
Jingthing, on 2012-02-08 00:06:17, said:
lovelaos, on 2012-02-07 22:56:02, said:
andrew55, on 2012-02-07 21:43:20, said:
I honestly don't think that I know any Thais who have NO spiritual belief. Do you?
Yes, quite a few. They don't seem to suffer any social stigma either. One experience that springs to mind is a Thai guy insisting we visit a French graveyard in Laos to prove to me that he didn't believe in ghosts/spirits. I declined his offer due to lack of interest.
While it is true from my understanding that most Thais do believe in ghosts, for a Thai to assert they don't believe in ghosts is certainly not the same thing as a Thai being open about being an ATHEIST. Also, the ghost thing I think is more of the animist tradition here that is more ancient than Buddhism.
Indeed, perhaps that was a bad example. Here's another one.
A Laotian man I know who had just been released from a Thai prison for smuggling drugs, claimed to be a Jehovah Witness. Upon further discussion it seems he was pretending to 'believe' for sinister reasons involving a rather niaive, rich, local farang believer / recruiter. He later announced he was an athiest. The fact that he was an athiest didn't cause any social stigma. The fact that he was a heavily tatooed, muay lao, ex prisoner however, did.
That's kind of silly. I didn't suggest being an atheist was potentially as stigmatizing as being a criminal. That there are worse things doesn't prove it is accepted.
Edited by Jingthing, 2012-02-08 00:47:19.
Posted 2012-02-08 01:03:46
Which part of it is silly? No, it doesn't prove it is accepted. I'm not here to prove anything. Just posting my experiences of athiests I have come across and the fact that Thai people don't generally stigmatise them because of their unreligious beliefs. Just my experience
Posted 2012-02-08 01:05:37
lovelaos, on 2012-02-08 01:03:46, said:
Which part of it is silly? No, it doesn't prove it is accepted. I'm not here to prove anything. Just posting my experiences of athiests I have come across and the fact that Thai people don't generally stigmatise them because of their unreligious beliefs. Just my experience
Thanks for sharing your personal anecdote.
Posted 2012-02-08 01:51:58
why would a "closet atheist" meet any stigma at all? Nobody would know they were atheists
Posted 2012-02-08 02:22:19
KeyserSoze01, on 2012-02-08 00:40:03, said:
Jingthing, on 2012-02-08 00:01:50, said: I am totally not convinced. For example, if Yingluck who barely said anything to get elected for well understood reasons HAD announced, by the way, I am an avowed atheist, I hold no religious or spiritual beliefs and am not interested in representing the Buddhist culture of Thailand in my government, would she have STILL won?
No, of course not. Politicians have to pander to the religious majority in any country in order to get elected.
Pandering to any religion in the UK pretty much guarantees that you'll never get elected.
Posted 2012-02-08 02:41:29
Its not expressing a lack of belief in a religion or deity that is dangerous in Thailand.
Posted 2012-02-08 05:49:56
Jingthing, on 2012-02-07 22:09:57, said:
Ulysses G., on 2012-02-07 21:55:42, said:
Buddha never claimed to be a God, so am not sure that not thinking that he was would be a big problem. I ask people please to not get into this old rathole about the "validity" of Buddhism as a religion. That has been done till life after death on this and countless other forums. It definitely IS a spiritually based belief system and that's what I'm talking about. An atheist believes in NO such systems.
An atheist does not believe in GOD. That is what an atheist IS:
atheist - someone who denies the existence of god.
a·the·ist (   th  -  st)
n.
One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.
http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/atheist
Posted 2012-02-08 06:02:30
nocturn, on 2012-02-08 01:51:58, said: why would a "closet atheist" meet any stigma at all? Nobody would know they were atheists
"out of the closet atheist"
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Posted 2012-02-08 06:25:09
Quote Ignoring the well worn debate about whether Buddhism is a "real" religion or not
This is the 1st I ever heard Buddhism is debated to not be a real religion
That aside I have never known religion of any sort to be accepting/tolerant of other religions much less
a total non believer....except for Buddhist 
So to that end probably a non-starter in LOS politics ...not that I think religion & politics mix nor should they.
Edited by flying, 2012-02-08 06:25:26.
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