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[WinnieTheKhwai]

Ulysses G., on 2012-02-11 07:48:10, said:

notmyself, on 2012-02-11 00:59:12, said:

No, an atheist rejects the claim that there is a god. It's not the same thing.

Said the guy who nit-picks between religion and spiritual/phylosophical belief system whenever Buddhism is mentioned somewhere.

[Ulysses G.]

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2012-02-11 08:48:48, said:

Said the guy who nit-picks between religion and spiritual/phylosophical belief system whenever Buddhism is mentioned somewhere.

There are plenty of people who do not think that Buddhism is a religion and plenty who do. It is debated constantly, so there is nothing "pedantic" about it.
The difference between "an atheist does not believe in a god" and "an atheist rejects the claim that there is a god" is not worthy of attacking TomTao over and the capitalization lesson by your buddy was condescending (and frowned upon as all members are not native English speakers).

Edited by Ulysses G., 2012-02-11 09:24:07.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

You're never pedantic, I didn't say pedantic..  But you do nit-pick a little on occasion.. Those 27,811 posts aren't all grand facts of the universe.

[Ulysses G.]

I have certainly heard the same said about your posts every now and then

[richardjm65]

Ulysses G., on 2012-02-10 18:02:11, said:

WinnieTheKhwai, on 2012-02-10 14:27:57, said:

Anyway, atheists don't go around telling other people how to live.  

Some of them seem to spend a lot of time suing Christians for putting up mangers and Christmas trees and such. Athiests can be a--holes just like anyone else.

Just so, UG. Here's Pat Condell's take on intolerant atheists. As usual, he's spot on and this, remember, comes from an atheist.

http://www.youtube.c...u/0/IolHgMf_nbw

[farang000999]

Jingthing, on 2012-02-10 12:29:49, said:

farang000999, on 2012-02-10 10:38:41, said:

Atheism is as much of a religion as Christianity or Buddhism, if not more so.

That's the falsehood that many religious people like to believe.

I can tell you that I have been lectured (unwillingly) by Atheists as much as Theists, if not more.

[notmyself]

Ulysses G., on 2012-02-11 07:48:10, said:

notmyself, on 2012-02-11 00:59:12, said:

No, an atheist rejects the claim that there is a god. It's not the same thing.

Pedantic nitpicking would suggest that both are more or less the same. This would mean that innocent until proven guilty and guilty until proven innocent are more or less the same. In an effort to explain I previously offered two examples, one of which was....

Quote

If one is on a jury then they will need to listen and judge if someone is guilty or not guilty rather then guilty or innocent.

If you yourself were in court and the jury thought both terms were more or less the same thing and it would be pedantic to think otherwise would you be comfortable? I doubt it.

[TomTao]

Here is the dictionary definition from the Concise English Dictionary. Atheism, disbelief in a God; godlessness; disregard of God and His laws. Atheist, one who disbelieves, or denies the existence of a God. Atheistic, godless, impious. I welcome correction, not criticism, everybody has the right to express their opion so long as it does not belittle others and without fear of being belittled by others, everybody has the right to believe in God or gods without fear of persecution by those who do not believe. Thailand is a Buddhist country that is tollerant toward all other beliefs, it would be nice if the same tollerance could be exhibited here, those who believe should be able to believe in God or gods, or whether they believe they don't believe. Afterall, everybody believes in something or someone.

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[KamalaDreamer]

Round and round in bloody circles.

Thailand is Buddhist. The troubles in the South of Thailand are a result of religious fervour. Just like it was in Ireland.

If I was controlling Thai immigration I'd say "Are you Buddhist?". Wrong answer gets no visa.

[rizenkroft]

When you find a non buddhist Thai or one who is not superstitious could you please let me know I would love to meet one!

[KamalaDreamer]

rizenkroft, on 2012-02-12 05:28:52, said:

When you find a non buddhist Thai or one who is not superstitious could you please let me know I would love to meet one!

Why not try a German?

[TomTao]

rizenkroft, on 2012-02-12 05:28:52, said:

When you find a non buddhist Thai or one who is not superstitious could you please let me know I would love to meet one!

Try one of the many churches, or perhaps one of the mosques, you may find some there.

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[rizenkroft]

Speaking about Thais but do you mean Thai German mix as I suppose they may have left their beliefs behind? But thai non superstitious? My christian friends in Thai are still superstitious as are the Buddhist. Also has anyone met many Athiest Thais?

[ROMANOBA]

Thai Buddhism has nothing to do with Buddhism or religion, it's just a bundle of superstitious rituals performed in order to get some personal advantage. The concept of ' Atheist' is too complicate  to explain in a country where everything must be practical,shallow and easy.
In some way Thailand is the most ' atheist' country I ever visited, but ' atheist-by'indifference', not atheist-by-choice. It's like asking to a 3 years  child if he is agnostic or not!!!.....

[Moonrakers]

Ulysses G., on 2012-02-11 07:48:10, said:

notmyself, on 2012-02-11 00:59:12, said:

No, an atheist rejects the claim that there is a god. It's not the same thing.

It's not pedantic at all though UG. It is a very significant difference that many misunderstand completely.

[NewlyMintedThai]

I have lived in Thailand for well over 20 years and have never met a local atheist.

[Kwasaki]

ROMANOBA, on 2012-02-12 13:10:20, said:

Thai Buddhism has nothing to do with Buddhism or religion, it's just a bundle of superstitious rituals performed in order to get some personal advantage. The concept of ' Atheist' is too complicate  to explain in a country where everything must be practical,shallow and easy.
In some way Thailand is the most ' atheist' country I ever visited, but ' atheist-by'indifference', not atheist-by-choice. It's like asking to a 3 years  child if he is agnostic or not!!!.....

A very strange thing to say but your belief I guess.

To me that would be like saying a Baptist isn't a Christian, Thailand Buddhism is adapted from Sri Lankan lineage and is classed as a the Theravada of the two.

Maybe the 3year old child would say yes.

[TomTao]

rizenkroft, on 2012-02-12 12:58:20, said:

Speaking about Thais but do you mean Thai German mix as I suppose they may have left their beliefs behind? But thai non superstitious? My christian friends in Thai are still superstitious as are the Buddhist. Also has anyone met many Athiest Thais?

Sorry I didn't read what you wrote properly, many Thais that have converted are superstitious, but some of the christian Thais who come from christian families have lost a lot of the superstition, just as we have our own superstitions from our own upbringing, they can be hard to lose.

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[NewlyMintedThai]

Religion is just a complicated set of shared superstitions.

[notmyself]

Kwasaki, on 2012-02-12 14:15:52, said:

ROMANOBA, on 2012-02-12 13:10:20, said:

Thai Buddhism has nothing to do with Buddhism or religion, it's just a bundle of superstitious rituals performed in order to get some personal advantage. The concept of ' Atheist' is too complicate  to explain in a country where everything must be practical,shallow and easy.
In some way Thailand is the most ' atheist' country I ever visited, but ' atheist-by'indifference', not atheist-by-choice. It's like asking to a 3 years  child if he is agnostic or not!!!.....

A very strange thing to say but your belief I guess.

To me that would be like saying a Baptist isn't a Christian, Thailand Buddhism is adapted from Sri Lankan lineage and is classed as a the Theravada of the two.

Maybe the 3year old child would say yes.

ROMANOBA is talking about cultural Buddhists and I would have to at least to some extent agree. I would say a good half of the Thai Buddhists I have met just see it as a way of life.

[canuckamuck]

I don't remember meeting any theist Buddhists, but there are likley many. However, finding an atheist Buddhist would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Perhaps JT meant non spiritual worldview when he typed atheist.  Buddhism is atheistic by most definitions.


I think Thais might be the most tolerant people group I know when it comes to allowing others to believe what they want. I can't imagine they get worked up over a Thai who has no spiritual worldview.

[Jingthing]

I think I made it bloody clear that I didn't want this thread to devolve to a typical arcane discussion over  the nature of Buddhism as a belief system compared to other major world religions. Some people don't even accept that Buddhism is any kind of religion.

In any case, NOT THE POINT!

That's why I've avoided this thread I started. I thought the way I framed it was very clear. About social acceptance  or non acceptance in Thailand about OPEN non-believers. Instead, endless pedantic nit picking about definitions of belief systems, atheism, spirituality, and religion. Something you can find reams of volumes about on the web or the library.

But how much can you find about Thai social attitudes towards non-believers?

Unbelievable! (Actually, predictable, but I did try.)

OK, there have been some interesting points brought out. Such as the issue with declaring a religion in Thai court.

I've half a mind (don't quote me on that ) to ask this thread be closed due to massive off topic hijacking, but some of you seem to be enjoying yourselves avoiding the actual topic, which I do think is interesting and has NEVER been brought up on this forum before to my knowledge. But if you're enjoying yourselves ... whatever.

Edited by Jingthing, 2012-02-12 16:53:50.

[lovelaos]

Jingthing, on 2012-02-12 16:43:37, said:

I think I made it bloody clear that I didn't want this thread to devolve to a typical arcane discussion over  the nature of Buddhism as a belief system compared to other major world religions. Some people don't even accept that Buddhism is any kind of religion.

In any case, NOT THE POINT!

That's why I've avoided this thread I started. I thought the way I framed it was very clear. About social acceptance  or non acceptance in Thailand about OPEN non-believers. Instead, endless pedantic nit picking about definitions of belief systems, atheism, spirituality, and religion. Something you can find reams of volumes about on the web or the library.

But how much can you find about Thai social attitudes towards non-believers?

Unbelievable! (Actually, predictable, but I did try.)

OK, there have been some interesting points brought out. Such as the issue with declaring a religion in Thai court.

I've half a mind (don't quote me on that ) to ask this thread be closed due to massive off topic hijacking, but some of you seem to be enjoying yourselves avoiding the actual topic, which I do think is interesting and has NEVER been brought up on this forum before to my knowledge. But if you're enjoying yourselves ... whatever.

[Ulysses G.]

ROMANOBA, on 2012-02-12 13:10:20, said:

Thai Buddhism has nothing to do with Buddhism or religion, it's just a bundle of superstitious rituals performed in order to get some personal advantage.

Sounds good to me.

[andrew55]

ROMANOBA, on 2012-02-12 13:10:20, said:

Thai Buddhism has nothing to do with Buddhism or religion, it's just a bundle of superstitious rituals performed in order to get some personal advantage. The concept of ' Atheist' is too complicate  to explain in a country where everything must be practical,shallow and easy.
In some way Thailand is the most ' atheist' country I ever visited, but ' atheist-by'indifference', not atheist-by-choice. It's like asking to a 3 years  child if he is agnostic or not!!!.....

I wish I could disagree with you.