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[morrobay]

Given that Thais are nationalistic and the face factor. And given that on a regular basis all types of foreighners , residents and visitors ,complain and criticize Thais and the way they do things in the letters to the dailies and weeklies.and on the discussion forums.
Do theThais resent all this criticism or do they even care ? Im sure the jet ski criminal organization resents this. But what about all the constant criticism of everyday things , like the complaints about the cutting down of the nice trees along the beach in Pattaya
and Jomtien , the garbage , bad service and so on ?.
I could only speculate that Thais do very much resent this . But I dont have any first hand knowledge , because like a certain percent of foreighners here , especially those in Bangkok , Pattaya and Phuket who  by choice have very limited communication with Thais  and live in a parallel Thailand.  By the way I completely agree with all the criticism , so the question is not about it being valid.

Edited by morrobay, 2012-02-09 10:14:11.

[Soutpeel]

<sub>I would suggest for the most part the Thai population doesn even know about the criticism, as this would require at least a basic grasp of the English language for the most part,

I have the opinion that the powers that be in Thailand do not want the "peasants" to learn English as this would open up a whole new world them which could affect the current and future staus quo for those in charge....therefore keep them illliterate and keep spouting them the nationalist party line.</sub>

Edited by metisdead, 2012-02-09 10:27:10.
Font reset. Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette.

[toybits]

I agree with Soutpeel.  The landscape would drastically change if Thais' command of English would be at par with TV forum members. If so, many TV forum members would probably more circumspect about posts they make. No more questions like "Where can I meet Freelance Girls?".

[pauljones]

I think the average Thai would be shocked at the way tourists are treated/scammed/abused in the resort areas.

[thunder30101]

No,No and Def. No

[IanForbes]

Soutpeel, on 2012-02-09 10:06:17, said:

<sub>I would suggest for the most part the Thai population doesn even know about the criticism, as this would require at least a basic grasp of the English language for the most part,

I have the opinion that the powers that be in Thailand do not want the "peasants" to learn English as this would open up a whole new world them which could affect the current and future staus quo for those in charge....therefore keep them illliterate and keep spouting them the nationalist party line.</sub>

I think that is it in a nut shell.

There is an old saying that would hold true about Thais... even though it was written many years ago for Europeans...

"How do you keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paree (Paris)"

Uneducated people (in a world wide sense) are easily fed propaganda that they then take as being true. Hitler did it to the German  masses and so did the Japanese leaders prior to the second world war.

Edited by IanForbes, 2012-02-09 11:18:40.

[bendix]

On a related subject, does anyone think foreigners care, resent or are even aware of how foreigners who come to their country as sex tourists, behave like louts in bars, wander around shirtless as if their pale and insipid obesity is something wondrous to behold . . oh  . . and generally smell bad?

I guess not.  Given the average foreigner isn't educated enough to learn Thai I suspect they probably don't even realise it's happening.

I have a theory that the most western governments deliberately uneducate their masses to prevent them from being exposed to contempt when they travel and live overseas.

[bendix]

And on another related note, there used to be a really opinioned westerner - an Aussie - who used to write regularly to the Nation and Bangkok Post, superciliously criticising pretty much every aspect of Thai life - politics, business, health care, driving habits, even the state of toilets in tourist zones.  He did so from a position of perceived superiority.  Guy by the name of Steve Pedrotta - google him

His air of superiority was rather hard to credit given that he arrived here in a pretty good expat role a decade or so ago, and since then has been sliding down the social ladder, losing job after job until he has found his new vocation - serving 15-20 years in a Thai prison for attempting to smuggle in 3kg of cocaine in a vain attempt to prolong his time here a little longer.

Edited by bendix, 2012-02-09 13:00:35.

[theblether]

bendix, on 2012-02-09 12:34:26, said:

On a related subject, does anyone think foreigners care, resent or are even aware of how foreigners who come to their country as sex tourists, behave like louts in bars, wander around shirtless as if their pale and insipid obesity is something wondrous to behold . . oh  . . and generally smell bad?

I guess not.  Given the average foreigner isn't educated enough to learn Thai I suspect they probably don't even realise it's happening.

I have a theory that the most western governments deliberately uneducate their masses to prevent them from being exposed to contempt when they travel and live overseas.

You have a good point badly put.........

[Forethat]

My general observation is that in case a Thai is presented with some sort of criticism from a Farang, they usually think we're utter idiots. Don't get me wrong here now, I'm just stating my opinion, but I have been in hundreds of business situations where completely inexperienced people dispute experts, who bring 30 years of experience to the table, with comments and ideas so utterly stupid one wonders of there's even a brain inside the skull. I have been in situations where people begin to look around for hidden cameras to see if they're in a bad episode of the candid camera. This is in the banking world.

It's not only about face in these business situations. Countless are the moments I have overheard Thais talk about experienced skilled people as if they were complete morons, when in fact it's the other way around.

I have lived and/or worked in countries all over the world. In no place have I experienced the same kind of unmotivated arrogance towards foreigners and their knowledge as I have done in Thailand. In many cases it's been almost farcical. I'd say this obvious unwillingness to listen and accept others knowledge is the primary reason this country will remain a development country.

If you've lived here for a couple of years you know exactly what I mean: Thais are superior in every aspect. Farangs are stupid morons.

Edited by Forethat, 2012-02-09 12:56:08.

[Forethat]

bendix, on 2012-02-09 12:34:26, said:

Given the average foreigner isn't educated enough to learn Thai I suspect they probably don't even realise it's happening.

Are you stating fact or just talking gibberish...?

[harrry]

bendix, on 2012-02-09 12:39:53, said:

And on another related note, there used to be a really opinioned westerner - an Aussie - who used to write regularly to the Nation and Bangkok Post, superciliously criticising pretty much every aspect of Thai life - politics, business, health care, driving habits, even the state of toilets in tourist zones.  He did so from a position of perceived superiority.  Guy by the name of Steve Pedrotta - google him

His air of superiority was rather hard to credit given that he arrived here in a pretty good expat role a decade or so ago, and since then has been sliding down the social ladder, losing job after job until he has found his new vocation - serving 15-20 years in a Thai prison for attempting to smuggle in 3kg of cocaine in a vain attempt to prolong his time here a little longer.

• 
  
  Steve Pedrotta - Thailand | LinkedIn
  
  
  
  
  
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  Good to see linkedin is helping him  

[theblether]

Forethat, on 2012-02-09 12:54:23, said:

My general observation is that in case a Thai is presented with some sort of criticism from a Farang, they usually think we're utter idiots. Don't get me wrong here now, I'm just stating my opinion, but I have been in hundreds of business situations where completely inexperienced people dispute experts, who bring 30 years of experience to the table, with comments and ideas so utterly stupid one wonders of there's even a brain inside the skull. I have been in situations where people begin to look around for hidden cameras to see if they're in a bad episode of the candid camera. This is in the banking world.

It's not only about face in these business situations. Countless are the moments I have overheard Thais talk about experienced skilled people as if they were complete morons, when in fact it's the other way around.

I have lived and/or worked in countries all over the world. In no place have I experienced the same kind of unmotivated arrogance towards foreigners and their knowledge as I have done in Thailand. In many cases it's been almost farcical. I'd say this obvious unwillingness to listen and accept others knowledge is the primary reason this country will remain a development country.

If you've lived here for a couple of years you know exactly what I mean: Thais are superior in every aspect. Farangs are stupid morons.

+1

Bendix had a point about governments keeping the masses down but he has picked on the wrong governments.......it's not the West that is at fault here, it's the Thais.....and they compound their lack of knowledge with gross stupidity and arrogance of a breathtaking order.

[Berkshire]

If the criticism(s) isn't in Thai, then most Thais won't know about/care.

[Berkshire]

bendix, on 2012-02-09 12:34:26, said:

On a related subject, does anyone think foreigners care, resent or are even aware of how foreigners who come to their country as sex tourists, behave like louts in bars, wander around shirtless as if their pale and insipid obesity is something wondrous to behold . . oh  . . and generally smell bad?

I guess not.  Given the average foreigner isn't educated enough to learn Thai I suspect they probably don't even realise it's happening.

I have a theory that the most western governments deliberately uneducate their masses to prevent them from being exposed to contempt when they travel and live overseas.

Good one.  I'm sure there are tons of criticisms of the above-type farangs in Thailand, but the criticisms are all in Thai.  Do farangs care?  The answer from the Thais will be the same in reverse.

[Beetlejuice]

I know for a fact that Immigration regularly scrutinises Thai visa and all the Thai bashing crap that is often published as posts is noted.

This is definitely not to our advantage and goes against us regarding the Thais tolerance of farangs in Thailand.

Most Thais are not as naive or as ignorant of the English language, world events and world opinions of them as some of you may believe. Never underestimate their tolerance levels and intelligence, because as the wise man says; even the worm may turn.

When I read some these Thai bashing threads, I do not regard these posters as doing me or other farangs living here any favours.

Remember this; politeness, courtesy and tolerance doesn’t equal stupid.

[soomak]

99% are not aware.

The other 1 percent probably repress it, since their high opinion of themselves colides with the truth.

[theblether]

Beetlejuice, on 2012-02-09 13:49:51, said:

I know for a fact that Immigration regularly scrutinises Thai visa and all the Thai bashing crap that is often published as posts is noted.

This is definitely not to our advantage and goes against us regarding the Thais tolerance of farangs in Thailand.

Most Thais are not as naive or as ignorant of the English language, world events and world opinions of them as some of you may believe. Never underestimate their tolerance levels and intelligence, because as the wise man says; even the worm may turn.

When I read some these Thai bashing threads, I do not regard these posters as doing me or other farangs living here any favours.

Remember this; politeness, courtesy and tolerance doesn’t equal stupid.

The mere fact that you are concerned points out that there is an intolerance of opinions that doesn't suit their self image.......so off we go on a magic roundabout of recrimination and so called Thai bashing just because the truth hurts.

So is the answer to kowtow and not tell the truth?

[theblether]

soomak, on 2012-02-09 14:05:35, said:

99% are not aware.

The other 1 percent probably repress it, since their high opinion of themselves colides with the truth.

You were reading my mind there.......the country will be stronger for facing these problems of self defeating ignorance, the truth hurts but the truth will make the country stronger and better. I would have a problem with anyone that attacked Thailand and Thai culture through vindictiveness and malice, but it is possible to be constructively critical in the hope that it improves the lot of Thailand.

Nothing would make me happier than to see Thailand prosper, but taking a vow of silence is not going to help anyone.

We can't all hide below a feather you know.

[rijb]

I think Thai people worry about what foreigners spend - not what they think.

On a related note (per bendix), I've thought about why some foreigners get so nasty.  Experts in intercultural communication blame it on culture shock.

Anthropologist George M. Foster says, "Culture shock is a mental illness, and as is true of much mental illness, the victim usually does not know that he is afflicted."

Some victims experience delayed culture shock after a period of excitement and exhilaration.   Usually, when they start having troubles with language, housing, money, transportation, food, recreation, and health.

He withdraws into himself, refuses to learn the native language, makes no effort to find friends among local people, takes no interest in their history, art, architecture, or any other aspects of their culture.

He displays a variety of unattractive symptoms.  One is a tendency to over-react to minor frustrations or delays or inconveniences with irritation or anger out of all proportion to the cause. Another is to be unduly suspicious, to think that people are out to cheat or swindle him because he is a foreigner. Yet another is over-concern about cleanliness, an unwarranted conviction that water, food or dishes are unsanitary when in fact they are not.

Often the idiot (I mean victim!) is unaware of the extent to which he is displaying these symptoms.  They seek out other disgruntled souls, usually expatriates like himself, and find melancholy relief in criticizing all aspects of the host country.

Some victims of culture shock surrender their own identity and try to imitate all the customs and attitudes of the alien culture.

I asked my wife what should these poor victims of culture shock do.

She said:  go home!  

I say:  f--k 'em, let 'em stay here and spend all their money!

Edited by rijb, 2012-02-09 14:14:41.

[orpheus454]

theblether, on 2012-02-09 13:08:09, said:

Forethat, on 2012-02-09 12:54:23, said:

My general observation is that in case a Thai is presented with some sort of criticism from a Farang, they usually think we're utter idiots. Don't get me wrong here now, I'm just stating my opinion, but I have been in hundreds of business situations where completely inexperienced people dispute experts, who bring 30 years of experience to the table, with comments and ideas so utterly stupid one wonders of there's even a brain inside the skull. I have been in situations where people begin to look around for hidden cameras to see if they're in a bad episode of the candid camera. This is in the banking world.

It's not only about face in these business situations. Countless are the moments I have overheard Thais talk about experienced skilled people as if they were complete morons, when in fact it's the other way around.

I have lived and/or worked in countries all over the world. In no place have I experienced the same kind of unmotivated arrogance towards foreigners and their knowledge as I have done in Thailand. In many cases it's been almost farcical. I'd say this obvious unwillingness to listen and accept others knowledge is the primary reason this country will remain a development country.

If you've lived here for a couple of years you know exactly what I mean: Thais are superior in every aspect. Farangs are stupid morons.

+1

Bendix had a point about governments keeping the masses down but he has picked on the wrong governments.......it's not the West that is at fault here, it's the Thais.....and they compound their lack of knowledge with gross stupidity and arrogance of a breathtaking order.

Whooooooooosh...

[norrona]

bendix, on 2012-02-09 12:34:26, said:

On a related subject, does anyone think foreigners care, resent or are even aware of how foreigners who come to their country as sex tourists, behave like louts in bars, wander around shirtless as if their pale and insipid obesity is something wondrous to behold . . oh  . . and generally smell bad?

I guess not.  Given the average foreigner isn't educated enough to learn Thai I suspect they probably don't even realise it's happening.

I have a theory that the most western governments deliberately uneducate their masses to prevent them from being exposed to contempt when they travel and live overseas.

apart from Thailand where would learning to speak Thai be of any use?

[scorecard]

pauljones, on 2012-02-09 10:32:38, said:

I think the average Thai would be shocked at the way tourists are treated/scammed/abused in the resort areas.

I agree with this and I offer an  example which is a  twist of this point.

About 18 months ago I gave my uni students a course project, to be completed in small teams. (Gave the project at the start of the semester, had to be presented (stand up presentation by each team) on the last day of that semester.) Obviously this is an English language program.

Each team had to invent a product or service never seen before (inside or outside of Thailand) plus a marketing and strategy plan which focused mainly on one country abroad, and the product or service had to include something which identified it as 'Thai'.

Each team had to (privately) give me a progress report every week. They had three weeks to get my approval for their idea. then proceed to do the detailed work.

Out of 4 teams total, 2 teams focused on the idea of Thai restaurants in other countries and their main point was 'fabulous Thai service'.
I told both teams they needed to go back to the drawing board, but they both insisted it was a good idea. They went ahead.

Presentation day - First team gives their 30 minute presentation about restaurant / fabulous Thai service.  About 30% of the class cut them to shreds, saying that it wasn't fabulous at all. Now I should add that the majority of the Thai students, in that class, had lived / studied abroad, many for many years.

They were very critical of the blanket assumption (of the other students) that Thai service is wondeful and they gave numerous examples. The kids who had never been abroad were utterly shocked at the comments.

Ultimately I had to stop the discussion. The second team who had 'invented' the same concept for this project withdrew.

Edited by scorecard, 2012-02-09 15:10:24.

[scorecard]

Beetlejuice, on 2012-02-09 13:49:51, said:

I know for a fact that Immigration regularly scrutinises Thai visa and all the Thai bashing crap that is often published as posts is noted.

This is definitely not to our advantage and goes against us regarding the Thais tolerance of farangs in Thailand.

Most Thais are not as naive or as ignorant of the English language, world events and world opinions of them as some of you may believe. Never underestimate their tolerance levels and intelligence, because as the wise man says; even the worm may turn.

When I read some these Thai bashing threads, I do not regard these posters as doing me or other farangs living here any favours.

Remember this; politeness, courtesy and tolerance doesn’t equal stupid.

Id' like to add a further point.

I believe that part of the reason why many farang are critical of Thais / Thai ways comes from what we observe in Thai politicians and in fact I think that's very misleading.

There are many many very capable, honest and ethical Thais who could take this country forward quickly but they don't / won't get involved with the current political scene because:

- They don't want to be branded as being part of the incapable dishonnest gangs we call political parties.

- If they did join they fear that if they speak out about ethics etc., there could be pretty nasty reprisals.

[norrona]

scorecard, on 2012-02-09 14:57:13, said:

pauljones, on 2012-02-09 10:32:38, said:

I think the average Thai would be shocked at the way tourists are treated/scammed/abused in the resort areas.

I agree with this and I offer an  example which is a  twist of this comment.

About 18 months ago I gave my uni students a course project, to be completed in small teams. (Gave the project at the start of the semester, had to be presented (stand up presentation by each team) on the last day of that semester.) Obviously this is an English language program.

Each team had to invent a product or service never seen before (inside or outside of Thailand) plus a marketing and strategy plan which focused mainly on one country abroad, and the product or service had to include something which identified it as 'Thai'.

Each team had to (privately) give me a progress report every week. They had three weeks to get my approval for their idea. then proceed to do the detailed work.

Out of 4 teams total, 2 teams focused on the idea of Thai restaurants in other countries and their main point was 'fabulous Thai service'.
I told both teams they needed to go back to the drawing board, but they both insisted it was a good idea. They went ahead.

Presentation day - First team gives their 30 minute presentation about restaurant / fabulous Thai service.  About 30% of the class cut them to shreds, saying that it wasn't fabulous at all. Now I should add that the majority of the Thai students, in that class, had lived / studied abroad, many for many years.

They were very critical of the blanket assumption (of the other students) that Thai service is wondeful and they gave numerous examples. The kids who had never been abroad were utterly shocked at the comments.

Ultimately I had to stop the discussion. The second team who had 'invented' the same concept for this project withdrew.

so educated in a sense but completely ignorant, even to their teacher/tutor....kind of sums it up.