213 replies to this topic
Posted 2012-02-14 00:31:45
Quote What about waiting a few moments before post your upset feelings?
In my defence I did admit later that I over reacted........I mis-read one part of the post and it set me off, there are certain things that set me off and assaults on free speech are one of them.......and in Thailand it's under constant attack, as you well know.
Anyway, that being said I did misread it, I was in the wrong and I do apologize for any offence I have given.
ps If you had read on you would have seen me admitting that I had over-reacted, so we are both guilty of the same crime although from different angles.
Posted 2012-02-14 00:52:16
I don't go as far as the poster above who only answers questions when asked- partly because I feel that since I have been hired as a teacher, part of my job is to help form the capacity for making informed opinions and judging facts in the subjects I teach. To that end, a certain amount of 'A is better than B' is necessary, and some choices will be the wrong ones- it's the only way for the kids to learn. However, I am fortunate in that my subject is more about natural history than political history, and so the 'facts' are slightly (at least) more objective.
Furthermore, I have a duty sometimes to give the kids disciplinary guidance and advice, and my perspective- while informed by Thai culture and the Thai people working around us- may sometimes be slightly different. The kids don't seem to mind.
The only areas in which I have had to have arguments usually surrounded the behaviour of staff members, or policies at the school which I felt put students or staff at risk, or which disrupted classes excessively. And even then it wasn't until I realised that it would be more effective to tell a Thai staff member and let them deliver the message in a manner which would be easier for management to accept, that I saw my influence beginning to make a difference.
I guess I'd say that where my ideas were different or new for Thais, they weren't rejected on that basis, if at all- but rather for not going through the right social games to introduce a new idea properly.
Forethat, I don't know the structure of your meetings with your clients- but it would be my guess that what you're seeing happen when they make an 8-figure mistake is a struggle between factions (and given the budgets you're talking about, there should probably be factions). One of the factions knows that your input and advice is valuable/necessary and has enough power to insist that you be there. The other faction maybe doesn't like the first faction, and that's why they resist the ideas you bring- or perhaps they make more kickbacks a different way- or perhaps they just resent not being seen as the most knowledgeable party- and whoever has the power to make the decision either doesn't know or doesn't care as much as the first faction about getting the job done right. So it isn't, and the people who suffer financially might be investors who have no idea what kind of games are going on. Or it might be someone who can afford the loss and simply doesn't keep track. Or it might be that the businesses involved are designed for some complicated purpose to lose money. It's doubtful that you would ever learn the full truth, especially with that much money involved. However, one thing I have learned on these kinds of occasions when the truth does come out, is that even when something seems like it makes no sense at all, there's almost always a good, hard economic reason that it's happening- but all the facts behind that reason may remain hidden to most people.
Posted 2012-02-15 08:33:18
 Forethat, on 2012-02-13 12:27:29, said:
forumuser10, on 2012-02-13 11:43:11, said:
There are many areas where Thailand would benefit from adopting a more humble approach to external knowledge. For obvious reasons, that's not happening. And the sad truth is that in many areas westerners knows best, whether you like or not.
I would say that your approach towards the Thais doesn't seem very humble too me and the "obvious reasons" for me is just this fact.
Posted 2012-02-15 09:48:21
Forethat, on 2012-02-09 12:54:23, said:
My general observation is that in case a Thai is presented with some sort of criticism from a Farang, they usually think we're utter idiots. Don't get me wrong here now, I'm just stating my opinion, but I have been in hundreds of business situations where completely inexperienced people dispute experts, who bring 30 years of experience to the table, with comments and ideas so utterly stupid one wonders of there's even a brain inside the skull. I have been in situations where people begin to look around for hidden cameras to see if they're in a bad episode of the candid camera. This is in the banking world.
It's not only about face in these business situations. Countless are the moments I have overheard Thais talk about experienced skilled people as if they were complete morons, when in fact it's the other way around.
I have lived and/or worked in countries all over the world. In no place have I experienced the same kind of unmotivated arrogance towards foreigners and their knowledge as I have done in Thailand. In many cases it's been almost farcical. I'd say this obvious unwillingness to listen and accept others knowledge is the primary reason this country will remain a development country.
If you've lived here for a couple of years you know exactly what I mean: Thais are superior in every aspect. Farangs are stupid morons.
I always like the fact they assume anyone who has done a job for a long time knows it best and the best ways, clearly rubbish they just made the same mistakes for 10 years
A girlfriend of my wife has rented condos out for 10 years and hasnt a clue yet frequently tells my wife, "ive done this for 10 years and know whats best"
1 of them earns over 180k a month her friend scrapes round bars trying to screw ( literally) money out of farangs to rent a room. hmmm??
Posted 2012-02-15 09:55:30
toybits, on 2012-02-13 09:31:47, said:
If foreigners understood Thai languages like is was their own - then there would be a LOT more civility on forums such as this. There would be a LOT LESS Sniping and backstabbing - because this is really what it amounts to. Many are ungrateful for being allowed to live in Thailand. If you live here in Thailand - you have to take the good with the bad.
When you say that " they (Thais) are ignorant of our highly intelligent forum's and just judge us by our actions" I would like to ask - how good is your command of Thai? I really love that better than Thou attitude.
hellodolly, on 2012-02-12 22:14:20, said:
toybits, on 2012-02-09 10:24:35, said:
I agree with Soutpeel. The landscape would drastically change if Thais' command of English would be at par with TV forum members. If so, many TV forum members would probably more circumspect about posts they make. No more questions like "Where can I meet Freelance Girls?".
Just to play the devil's advocate.
What would this forum and others be like if Farongs had as good a grip on Thai as they do their native language. My understanding is to truly speak and understand a foreign language you have to have a understanding of the culture. Would the complaining be as loud and frequent as it is.
How would a person feel back where they come from if a Thai moved there made no effort to speak or understand the language and just complained.
To be honest I think they are ignorant of our highly intelligent forum's and just judge us by our actions.
The Thais will equally if not more so slag you off BUT behind your back to anyone who will listen and often many who wont, think village gossip.
Posted 2012-02-15 10:19:40
travelmann, on 2012-02-15 09:55:30, said:
The Thais will equally if not more so slag you off BUT behind your back to anyone who will listen and often many who wont, think village gossip.
The Farangs will equally if not more so slag Thais off, BUT, anonymously behind their backs to anyone who will listen and often many who wont,
Think ThaiVisa Forum Gossip.
Edited by Banzai99, 2012-02-15 10:21:00.
Posted 2012-02-15 11:31:49
Banzai99, on 2012-02-15 10:19:40, said:
travelmann, on 2012-02-15 09:55:30, said:
The Thais will equally if not more so slag you off BUT behind your back to anyone who will listen and often many who wont, think village gossip.
The Farangs will equally if not more so slag Thais off, BUT, anonymously behind their backs to anyone who will listen and often many who wont,
Think ThaiVisa Forum Gossip.
Posted 2012-02-15 11:58:40
how would thais ever know they were critisized in the international media ? ?
except for the rich and educated minority they cannot understand english
they dont own passports or enough money to travel to western countries anyway
the news and anything critisizing thai leadership and monarchy is censored
websites are blocked if they have any content on them thai leadership doesnt like
books are banned from sale and authors can be thrown in jail if they infringe
the average thai i would bet has no idea about the problems in thailand because
he has never had a chance to compare it to a place that isnt built solely on bricks
of greed and corruption ,if the last filthy rich prime minister didnt think he should
pay his taxes then why would any body else closer to the bottom of the ladder ?
welcome to thailand ! 
Posted 2012-02-15 13:05:12
wana, on 2012-02-15 11:58:40, said:
the average thai i would bet has no idea about the problems in thailand because
he has never had a chance to compare it to a place that isnt built solely on bricks
of greed and corruption
Yes, there are corruption to a higher amount in Thailand than in US and Europe countries.
But greed? I doubt there is any difference, just a little bit more sophisticated in the West.
Thailand is a country under development, they have natural resources to catch the broad
tourist industry that actually is only 50 years old. And it happened a lot in Thailand during
those 50 years.
Next step to adapt to the global economy is to get rid of the corruption. And the first
thing needed to achieve that goal is an open debate about the existence of bribes.
It seems to me that bribes is silently accepted by the average Thai.
But a country built solely on bricks of greed and corruption? No, you need to go back and do
your homework, Thailand or as previously named Siam is a culture with deep roots in history
and a development that extends a thousands years back in history which is a lot more than for
example todays North America. And what culture have not had bribes during it's development?
Posted 2012-02-15 13:54:36
wana, on 2012-02-15 11:58:40, said:
how would thais ever know they were critisized in the international media ? ?
except for the rich and educated minority they cannot understand english
they dont own passports or enough money to travel to western countries anyway
the news and anything critisizing thai leadership and monarchy is censored
websites are blocked if they have any content on them thai leadership doesnt like
books are banned from sale and authors can be thrown in jail if they infringe
the average thai i would bet has no idea about the problems in thailand because
he has never had a chance to compare it to a place that isnt built solely on bricks
of greed and corruption ,if the last filthy rich prime minister didnt think he should
pay his taxes then why would any body else closer to the bottom of the ladder ?
welcome to thailand !
No offence (he says tongue in cheek) but given the quality of spelling, grammar and general writing style in this little gem of a post, you're in no position to suggest Thais aren't particularly well educated.
Posted 2012-02-15 16:18:26
bendix, on 2012-02-15 13:54:36, said:
wana, on 2012-02-15 11:58:40, said:
how would thais ever know they were critisized in the international media ? ?
except for the rich and educated minority they cannot understand english
they dont own passports or enough money to travel to western countries anyway
the news and anything critisizing thai leadership and monarchy is censored
websites are blocked if they have any content on them thai leadership doesnt like
books are banned from sale and authors can be thrown in jail if they infringe
the average thai i would bet has no idea about the problems in thailand because
he has never had a chance to compare it to a place that isnt built solely on bricks
of greed and corruption ,if the last filthy rich prime minister didnt think he should
pay his taxes then why would any body else closer to the bottom of the ladder ?
welcome to thailand !
No offence (he says tongue in cheek) but given the quality of spelling, grammar and general writing style in this little gem of a post, you're in no position to suggest Thais aren't particularly well educated.
Low blow......
You don't know the nationality of Wana or his educational background.......neither do I
Maybe you can spell Bendix but when you stoop to this you show you're lacking class.
Posted 2012-02-15 17:19:30
bendix, on 2012-02-15 13:54:36, said:
wana, on 2012-02-15 11:58:40, said:
how would thais ever know they were critisized in the international media ? ?
except for the rich and educated minority they cannot understand english
they dont own passports or enough money to travel to western countries anyway
the news and anything critisizing thai leadership and monarchy is censored
websites are blocked if they have any content on them thai leadership doesnt like
books are banned from sale and authors can be thrown in jail if they infringe
the average thai i would bet has no idea about the problems in thailand because
he has never had a chance to compare it to a place that isnt built solely on bricks
of greed and corruption ,if the last filthy rich prime minister didnt think he should
pay his taxes then why would any body else closer to the bottom of the ladder ?
welcome to thailand !
No offence (he says tongue in cheek) but given the quality of spelling, grammar and general writing style in this little gem of a post, you're in no position to suggest Thais aren't particularly well educated.
i dont recall saying " (no offence ) "
maybe you need to go back and verify your own education
of course there exists corruption in almost every society of the world ,but you try bribing some police officers in germany or america and you will see that the corruption does not exist on the same levels as here in thailand when they arrest you and haul your ass down to the station instead of accepting the bribe with a warm smile and lettinng you carry on about your business
@bendix
only the truely retarded would nitpick spelling mistakes on an internet forum ........o wait 
Posted 2012-02-15 18:03:55
wana, on 2012-02-15 11:58:40, said:
how would thais ever know they were critisized in the international media ? ?
except for the rich and educated minority they cannot understand english
they dont own passports or enough money to travel to western countries anyway
the news and anything critisizing thai leadership and monarchy is censored
websites are blocked if they have any content on them thai leadership doesnt like
books are banned from sale and authors can be thrown in jail if they infringe
the average thai i would bet has no idea about the problems in thailand because
he has never had a chance to compare it to a place that isnt built solely on bricks
of greed and corruption ,if the last filthy rich prime minister didnt think he should
pay his taxes then why would any body else closer to the bottom of the ladder ?
welcome to thailand !
I have problems with your post as you are making statments based on a Thai press which you probably can't even read. So how have you arrived at your conclusion? A few examples would be nice....
Posted 2012-02-15 18:13:00
I am not sure why this thread needs to run any longer since it mainly seems to be a focal point for people who feel the need to make broad based derogatory generalizations about Thais and then insult those how dare to disagree. Which of course, then turns into a mudslinging match.
Redeemable? Not particularly
//CLOSED//
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