Posted 2006-02-02 19:08:50
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So now we're going to hear how Mexican food in the US is better than Mexican food anywhere else, including Mexico, right Gen Grant? 
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Everyone knows that noodles were first invented in China, brought back to Italy with Marco Polo (quite possibly his greatest contribution to mankind?). But who would deny that Italian pasta is better than Chinese? Or that pasta is truly Italian, given how prominetly it features in their cuisine?
Point being -- the place where a thing first originated is not always the place with the tastiest version. Subsequent variations may be either better or worse than the original. And sometimes another country/region takes on a "foreign" food, makes it better and it becomes a much more prominent part of its cuisine and cluture than it was or is in its "original"home. (cross referencing the pizza debate on separate thread)...
Posted 2006-02-02 20:02:38
 Ulysses G., on 2006-02-02 02:27:41, said:
It's a fact, Jack!
However, Japanese food is better in Japan. Thai food is better in Thailand. French food is better in France. British food is... well.. uh, fish and chips are better in England.
See how that works? It's called improving on the original and it happens a lot in the modern world.
Point taken. But of course you yourself reserve the right to say which are improvements and which are not, right?
As do we all, just that most of us preface our opinions by identifying them as such. For instance, in my opinion, the Mexican food in Mexico is better than in the US. In fact the cocina mexicana on either side of the border (well, once you're more than 50km in let's say) is very different. Having lived in all four places, I personally would rank California/Arizona style Mexican food in 4th place after Mexico, New Mexico and Texas.
Actually most of what passes for Mexican food in the US is Mexican snacks/appetisers, i.e., antojitos/entradas, not platos fuertes. As an example here's a list of fairly typical platos fuertes (main courses) from a Mexican website. Yes it's from Michoacan but most of these dishes or close variations are found nearly all over Mexico.
platos tipicos
Count how many you've seen on a menu in LA or San Francisco. Maybe in East LA ... Then check entradas on the same website, a tad more familiar to most Americans and Canadians.
So in fact the North American style of Mexican does tend to differ substantially from what you find in Mexico. Even taking a single antojito - the humble taco - as an example, I've never had a taco in the US that compares with the average (not even the best) taco in Mexico.
Sure there are many people of Mexican descent, even recent immigrants, in the SW USA. There are also lots of Thais in Los Angeles and Chicago, and they too can't seem to create Thai cuisine to taste like it does back home, generally speaking.
Quote However, Japanese food is better in Japan. Thai food is better in Thailand. French food is better in France. British food is... well.. uh, fish and chips are better in England.
And the Mexican food is better in Mexico, Italian food better in Italy.
Only my opinion of course.
See how it works? 
Posted 2006-02-02 20:27:43
sabaijai, on 2006-02-02 20:02:38, said: As do we all, just that most of us preface our opinions by identifying them as such.
One of the first things one learns in a debating or a writing class is not to weaken your argument by using terms like "in my opinion". It is whimpy and boring.
How many editorials do you read that identify something as the writers "opinion"? Almost none.
Posted 2006-02-02 22:21:23
Quote Count how many you've seen on a menu in LA or San Francisco. Maybe in East LA ... Then check entradas on the same website, a tad more familiar to most Americans ...
Around Southern California, these dishes are found all over the place.
Although many gringos only frequent the "Combo #2" eateries, one can find restaurants catering to any of the many regions of Mexico.
Posted 2006-02-03 18:03:33
Ulysses G., on 2006-02-02 13:27:43, said: sabaijai, on 2006-02-02 20:02:38, said:
As do we all, just that most of us preface our opinions by identifying them as such.
One of the first things one learns in a debating or a writing class is not to weaken your argument by using terms like "in my opinion". It is whimpy and boring.
How many editorials do you read that identify something as the writers "opinion"? Almost none.
Because at the top of the column is written either 'Editorial' or 'Opinion'. The first thing you learn in journalism is never to present your opinion as fact.
Posted 2006-02-03 20:26:35
sabaijai, on 2006-02-01 22:04:11, said: meadish_sweetball, on 2006-01-31 13:41:34, said:
Swedish pizza is superior - but a well-kept secret to anyone who hasnt been there. 
You seem to have forgotten your sacred rule about opinions here sabaijai. 
Posted 2006-02-04 13:07:57
Ulysses G., on 2006-02-03 13:26:35, said: sabaijai, on 2006-02-01 22:04:11, said:
meadish_sweetball, on 2006-01-31 13:41:34, said:
Swedish pizza is superior - but a well-kept secret to anyone who hasnt been there.
You seem to have forgotten your sacred rule about opinions here sabaijai.
That was neither fact nor opinion, but humor, Gen Grant. Just forgot the smiley face.
Posted 2006-02-04 19:23:25
The truth is go to any MAJOR city in the US and one can find very close to genuine Mexican food. You just have to know where that population is in any given city..........I can find it in L.A., San Fran., Chicago, Philly, N.Y.........et. al. The same is true in Mexico, every region is a bit different.
Oh, by the way.......had dinner at Coyote on Convent. Taco bell is cheaper and better. sorry....just the facts.
Posted 2006-02-04 21:05:20
sabaijai, on 2006-02-03 23:07:57, said: Ulysses G won't like it, it's not American. Nothing to do with cuisine. sabaijai, on 2006-02-03 23:07:57, said: Count how many you've seen on a menu in LA or San Francisco. Maybe in East LA ... Then check entradas on the same website, a tad more familiar to most Americans ... sabaijai, on 2006-02-03 23:07:57, said: That was neither fact nor opinion, but humor, Gen Grant. Just forgot the smiley face.
Smiley face or not, it is antagonistic, and quickly becomes stale.
Posted 2006-02-04 21:55:53
sabaijai, on 2006-02-02 20:02:38, said: For instance, in my opinion, the Mexican food in Mexico is better than in the US. In fact the cocina mexicana on either side of the border (well, once you're more than 50km in let's say) is very different. Having lived in all four places, I personally would rank California/Arizona style Mexican food in 4th place after Mexico, New Mexico and Texas.
Actually most of what passes for Mexican food in the US is Mexican snacks/appetisers, i.e., antojitos/entradas, not platos fuertes. As an example here's a list of fairly typical platos fuertes (main courses) from a Mexican website. Yes it's from Michoacan but most of these dishes or close variations are found nearly all over Mexico.
platos tipicos
Count how many you've seen on a menu in LA or San Francisco. Maybe in East LA ... Then check entradas on the same website, a tad more familiar to most Americans and Canadians.
So in fact the North American style of Mexican does tend to differ substantially from what you find in Mexico. Even taking a single antojito - the humble taco - as an example, I've never had a taco in the US that compares with the average (not even the best) taco in Mexico.
Sure there are many people of Mexican descent, even recent immigrants, in the SW USA. There are also lots of Thais in Los Angeles and Chicago, and they too can't seem to create Thai cuisine to taste like it does back home, generally speaking.
Quote However, Japanese food is better in Japan. Thai food is better in Thailand. French food is better in France. British food is... well.. uh, fish and chips are better in England.
And the Mexican food is better in Mexico, Italian food better in Italy.
Only my opinion of course.
See how it works?
Nice post sabaijai. I'd say you slighted Texas Tex-Mex food, but that's what opinions are for. If you were reading my professional determination, I'd charge you $100 per hour. Anything else is just one man's tortured opinion. 
I glanced through the menu which you provided, and hardly recognized 25% of the listings. Yeah, I'm from South Texas, but I lived almost three years in Chiapas, and travelled to around 22 states of la republica. Of course, when you're close to the ocean, you get more seafood, etc.
Hottest mole I ever had was in the capital city of Zacatecas. Ouch!
Ordering a plate of enchiladas de res at the Blanco Cafe in San Antonio gets you almost an entire meal. Steak tampiqueno is a full meal.
But I'm niggling. Pardon me if I've told this story already, but my old professor from Brownsville, Texas went 100 miles south of the Rio Bravo del Norte, around 1950. After they'd placed their order, the waitress said, "Senores, no estan en Tejas todavia! Tenemos solamente comida mexicana." In other words, what passes for 'Mexican Food' in the two northern countries of North America is really Tex-Mex, or New Mexican chile rellenos, or whatever fare they cook in California. But yes, it's not unusual to find restaurants that specialize in Michoacana (especially butcher shops), Jalisciencia (my son calls that "Jolly Science"), Veracruzano, etc.
Okay, so two years in Chiang Mai, I never found that place. Where is it?
Posted 2006-02-05 00:09:56
Ulysses G., on 2006-02-02 03:27:41, said: It's a fact, Jack!
However, Japanese food is better in Japan. Thai food is better in Thailand. French food is better in France. British food is... well.. uh, fish and chips are better in England.
See how that works? It's called improving on the original and it happens a lot in the modern world.
Yeah, but British Indian food is better than Indian Indian Food, so how do you explain that?
PS. I hope Mike's Mexican food is less greasy than his burgers. Or is Cal-Tex-Mex really oily?
Edited by Grant, 2006-02-05 00:11:31.
Posted 2006-02-05 10:58:57
Grant, on 2006-02-05 00:09:56, said: Ulysses G., on 2006-02-02 03:27:41, said:
It's a fact, Jack!
However, Japanese food is better in Japan. Thai food is better in Thailand. French food is better in France. British food is... well.. uh, fish and chips are better in England.
See how that works? It's called improving on the original and it happens a lot in the modern world.
Yeah, but British Indian food is better than Indian Indian Food, so how do you explain that?
That is my opinion too.
Posted 2006-02-05 14:19:07
Ulysses G., on 2006-02-05 06:58:57, said: Grant, on 2006-02-05 00:09:56, said:
Ulysses G., on 2006-02-02 03:27:41, said:
It's a fact, Jack!
However, Japanese food is better in Japan. Thai food is better in Thailand. French food is better in France. British food is... well.. uh, fish and chips are better in England.
See how that works? It's called improving on the original and it happens a lot in the modern world.
Yeah, but British Indian food is better than Indian Indian Food, so how do you explain that?
That is my opinion too.
banana oil to that...Bahrain indian food is better than Uk indian food and indian indian food...
Posted 2006-02-06 22:09:13
PeaceBlondie, on 2006-02-04 14:55:53, said: Nice post sabaijai. I'd say you slighted Texas Tex-Mex food, but that's what opinions are for. If you were reading my professional determination, I'd charge you $100 per hour. Anything else is just one man's tortured opinion.
I glanced through the menu which you provided, and hardly recognized 25% of the listings. Yeah, I'm from South Texas, but I lived almost three years in Chiapas, and travelled to around 22 states of la republica. Of course, when you're close to the ocean, you get more seafood, etc.
Hottest mole I ever had was in the capital city of Zacatecas. Ouch!
Ordering a plate of enchiladas de res at the Blanco Cafe in San Antonio gets you almost an entire meal. Steak tampiqueno is a full meal.
But I'm niggling. Pardon me if I've told this story already, but my old professor from Brownsville, Texas went 100 miles south of the Rio Bravo del Norte, around 1950. After they'd placed their order, the waitress said, "Senores, no estan en Tejas todavia! Tenemos solamente comida mexicana." In other words, what passes for 'Mexican Food' in the two northern countries of North America is really Tex-Mex, or New Mexican chile rellenos, or whatever fare they cook in California. But yes, it's not unusual to find restaurants that specialize in Michoacana (especially butcher shops), Jalisciencia (my son calls that "Jolly Science"), Veracruzano, etc.
Okay, so two years in Chiang Mai, I never found that place. Where is it?
Come to think of it, I think the Mexican food in south Texas is better and more authentic than that in New Mexico, so I hereby revise my personal ranking to place Texas 2nd after Mexico. I've had some so-so Mexican meals in Dallas, you see, which tilted me towards New Mexico. My favourite cities for eating out in Mexico are Zacatecas (asado de boda), San Luis Potosi (enchiladas potosinas), Merida (grilled habaneros), Puebla (the best mole) and of course Mexico City (everything). Most disappointing: Guadalajara, Baja in general and most border towns.
I also agree with your assessment of the 25% ratio of dishes from menu being found in the US - even in LA. The US border states, including California, mostly serve antojitos from northern Mexico, from what I've seen. I've found exceptions but when I have, the results weren't as tasty, in my opinion. Tacos al pastor in the US, for example, tastes very unlike that beloved dish in Mexico, probably because the traditional way of cooking al pastor is illegal in most (probably all?) states, or so I've been told.
But Mexico is a long way from Thailand, I'd settle for anything even half as good as you can find in southern California. Only place I've found that fits that expectation is Senor Pico's of Los Angeles. Just about half as good as California Mexican. Also looking forward very much to the opening of Miguel's in CM. 
Posted 2006-02-09 11:50:21
I grew up in New Mexico and have tried Mexican food in every state I have ever been in. One on compairs to good ole southern california fare.
Robertoes rules....
Where is this "Villa market" in BKK?
I want to get some supplies.
Thanks
Posted 2006-02-09 14:41:44
JohnOFphon, on 2006-02-09 11:50:21, said: I grew up in New Mexico and have tried Mexican food in every state I have ever been in. One on compairs to good ole southern california fare.
Robertoes rules....
Where is this "Villa market" in BKK?
I want to get some supplies.
Thanks
BTS PROM PONG (emporium), Villa is between soi 33 and 39.
Posted 2006-02-09 21:34:38
Quote Tacos al pastor in the US, for example, tastes very unlike that beloved dish in Mexico, probably because the traditional way of cooking al pastor is illegal in most (probably all?) states, or so I've been told.
California county health agencies close their offices after 5pm.
At this time, the LA street cuisine takes on a new look.
Downtown and East LA parking lots become home to many flaming pastor carts.
Unfortunately, this is also a good time to avoid these areas.
It's best to speak Spanish, buy your food, and get the heck out of the area.
Posted 2006-02-12 03:14:33
silver dollar for tex-mex in bkk. but then again, i like spicy isaan food.
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