Posted 2012-02-10 22:40:23
 baboon, on 2012-02-09 16:42:30, said:
Doubtless the savings in fuel will be passed along to the passenger...
It would probably be put into the path of making TG profitable again.
If you mean to say that TG is too expensive, think for a moment. If they were consistently too expensive for the market, they would lose customers to the extent of flying empty.
Supply and demand determine the price, and while the price might be too high for you, other customers still choose to fly TG at the prices they offer. If the seats are upgraded and the fleet rejuvenated, I'll go back to using more TG flights again.
Posted 2012-02-10 22:44:21
ginjag, on 2012-02-10 09:52:50, said:
so the total number of 787s will be 8-but this update tell us it's spread over 5 years. so in 5 years they will have 8. different from the first post on the thread. I 5 years what will be efficient??? and they are leasing over 12 years. I wonder how much it will cost to lease-compared to buy, so the fuel efficiency aircraft will be the same as the old style--as they will be spending more on lease percentage. Crap thinking. So if I buy a car for 1 million--and compare it with rental--2 million over the years....say 10 years.
then with a 20 year life we can say another 10 years of rental
Khun Piyavasti has a plan, which outlines exactly which of their aircraft will be refurbished and which replaced which what new model, over the next 12 years. He presented this at a luncheon meeting sometime last year at which I was present. The presentation also included why some airplanes should be leased and others bought. He argued very well and clearly knew what he was talking about.
However, you seem to know more about this than him. I wonder why you were overlooked at the time and did not get his job.
Posted 2012-02-10 22:47:48
scorecard, on 2012-02-10 10:35:34, said:
MikeOboe57, on 2012-02-09 21:47:31, said:
What's all the fuss about this aircraft?
I'm sure the airlines will again pack as many seats as possible into economy class, so you won't miss the nice feeling of your legroom shrinking to zero when the pax in front makes full use of the reclining capability of his seat.
- And when the seat in front, in economy is fully back, you can't use your notebook, read a newspaper etc.
- And will these aircraft have individual movie screens in economy? Still waiting for that on Thai.
- And if this is the standard, nobody would use TG,. In fact, I prefer TG over LH when flying to Germany, because TG has the much wider pitch between the rows.
- Yes, all TG aircraft will have individual screens. The existing aircraft are being refurbished (unfortunately, this will still take some time), and new aircraft will be equipped with them from the beginning. Khun Piyavasti is well aware of the current weaknesses and why people choose certain Middle-East airlines.
Remark: Unlike my other post, this one is about economy class.
Edited by tombkk, 2012-02-10 22:57:57.
Added remark
Posted 2012-02-10 22:49:59
KarenBravo, on 2012-02-10 12:43:23, said:
It's going to be interesting to see how successful it is.
A number of years ago, when the 787 was on the drawing board, Boeing and Airbus had radically different views on where the future in aviation lay.
Airbus bet on a plane that would meet demand for increased capacity on main, established long-haul flights. They made the A380 to meet that demand.
Boeing decided that new point-to-point routes were the future. A long range, fuel efficient, medium size airplane would be best. They made the 787.
Correct. At an air show a few years ago, I had exactly this discussion with representatives of Airbus and of Boeing (separately). My take is that the Europe-USA market will call for more point-to-point flights (with smaller aircraft) while the Europe-Asia market requires more large aircraft to fly to the Asian countries' capitals.
Posted 2012-02-10 22:51:05
newermonkey, on 2012-02-10 12:56:04, said:
Its only the sexy paint job that makes this aircraft look different otherwise its quite boring in my opinion. pity designers cant think outside of the box or in this case "outside of the tube"!
It's not quite boring when you are interested in technology. I'll be at the Singapore Air Show and will try to visit the exhibit.
Posted 2012-02-10 22:52:55
HerbalEd, on 2012-02-10 22:31:23, said:
laurentbkk, on 2012-02-09 14:59:54, said:
Well lets hope this time the Biz class of TG will be acceptable in those new aircrafts.
Don't know who you find better, but I think TG business class is great service.
Service is good. The seats are not: These days, I expect a 180-decline.
Samsonite
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Posted 2012-02-10 23:02:20
KarenBravo, on 2012-02-10 13:17:02, said:
...The 787 is entirely made of composite materials, the first airliner constructed this way.
The lightness of the plane is one of the main reasons for its improved fuel economy.
In a way, you are not too far wrong.
As you will see in the attached photo, the entire fuselage, i.e., the body of the plane, is made of composite barrels. There are 5 barrels in total and in the photo it appears 3 of them have already been joined together. The wings, vertical and horizontal stabilizers are also made of composite materials. From the angle the photo was taken the joined barrels look shorter than they really are, but to give you some perspective the nose section on the right includes not only the cockpit, but the first 8 or 10 rows of windows. It is a large airplane.
ZA003-in-assembly_ip.jpg 56.14K
7 downloads
Where something has to be attached to the inside of the fuselage or the wings, metal is used. The composite material and aluminum do not get along so where the composite touches metal, titanium is often used. That certainly drives up the cost.  I've read that where aluminum has to be used a fiberglass "gasket" is put between the composite and aluminum parts. Throw in the landing gear and all the other metal parts that have to be attached to the aircraft and that is how they get to the 50% composite figure. The whole manufacturing process is quite interesting, IMHO. The barrels are made on a huge "lathe" type of machine, dried, put into another "lathe" type of machine that cuts out the windows and doors and drills any necessary holes that will be needed later as the plane is being put together.
Airbus has taken a different approach. Instead of barrels, their A350 will use a frame and panels made from composite, instead of aluminum, but joined together in a more "traditional" assembly process.
Edited by Samsonite, 2012-02-10 23:12:47.
Posted 2012-02-11 01:43:38
It should be a nice plane.
I'm still waiting for flying wing passenger planes.
Posted 2012-02-11 01:57:22
Shiver, on 2012-02-10 18:14:37, said:
If there are going to be so many VIP's on board the flight, I can't help wondering whether they'll do a 'Titanic' to get rid of a lot of people all at the same time, and Rockerfeller conveniently manages to miss the journey, taking out all his opposition?
You mean like Taksin's plane blew up? That was going to Chiang Mai too. Some of us older TV members will remember this.
Hopefully the 787 will be better in the sun than Thai plastics. Once had a ballcock disintegrate in a water tank here; the plastic just crumbled away.
NHK TV tonight had a beam made out of composite used to hold the upper floor in place on the A380. It was pretty huge looking and you can pick it up with one hand!
Edited by MaiChai, 2012-02-11 02:03:13.
Posted 2012-02-11 04:15:29
laurentbkk, on 2012-02-09 14:59:54, said:
Well lets hope this time the Biz class of TG will be acceptable in those new aircrafts.
I hear you have never been flying with SAS.
TG have a very good biz class,in my opinion
Posted 2012-02-11 04:30:46
Ricardo, on 2012-02-10 19:17:00, said:
I suspect that it first flew in the USA, where it was assembled, rather than in Thailand. 
Yes. Surely it flew in America first. In terms of where it flew with passengers first, ANA took delivery of its first 787s a few months ago (and has been flying routes with them since, I think, August?). ANA was the first carrier to put the 787 in service, so it is a bit of a testament to how Greyhound bus-like the American market has become that an Asian carrier grabbed the first of a new model off the assembly line. ANA was also the first carrier to wreck a 787, albeit in a pretty minor way that's totally forgettable other than noting the occurrence.
The 787 started off a lot cooler than it ended up, though the assembly (as has been described) is pretty interesting. What wasn't mentioned is that several of the vendors couldn't supply the parts Boeing needed on time, so Boeing had to buy the companies and make them in-house suppliers - this was responsible for a big chunk of the delays. The big thing about the 787 is that the wing was, for the first time, outsourced - to guess where...who got the first plane? Wing design and manufacturing has traditionally been a carefully guarded part of the process, so that was a honking deal in the industry.
Edited by emilyb, 2012-02-11 04:34:34.
Posted 2012-02-11 05:57:58
Tombkk #52
Sounds like you beat me to the Job, You were at the meeting therefore you had a better chance of it. After answering your snide remark, you never mentioned if any of the 20 year old 747s had been re furbished, and according to posters they have NOT. having had at least 10 years out of date so the refurb was well overdue last year. Where are the new planes that were arriving ???? A380s---777ers. The boss said these were on the way. You didn't mention those that had been cancelled did you, or the ones that had been delayed=deferred. Since last year an announcement came on T.VISA that of the loss of was it billions. In their favour I did see that they had leased from an Indian company 777ers for the Ausie-Asian routs. A little bit to answer, but I guess you would not cover all. But with being at the meeting you should know what has been shelved. I am not promoting them like you-as a Royal Orchid member I did take interest, and I'm trying to find out what has happened since the meeting, I know what was planned, and that's all you have answered up to now.
Posted 2012-02-11 06:15:33
tombkk, on 2012-02-10 22:40:23, said:
baboon, on 2012-02-09 16:42:30, said:
Doubtless the savings in fuel will be passed along to the passenger...
It would probably be put into the path of making TG profitable again.
If you mean to say that TG is too expensive, think for a moment. If they were consistently too expensive for the market, they would lose customers to the extent of flying empty.
Supply and demand determine the price, and while the price might be too high for you, other customers still choose to fly TG at the prices they offer. If the seats are upgraded and the fleet rejuvenated, I'll go back to using more TG flights again.
OK the new planes, if they are delivered will all have arrived by 2017, so big losses will be on the cards until then, as 1.or2 deliveries will not bring Thai back into profit. TG is too expensive for what you get, passenger numbers have dwindled. You also said IF the seats are upgraded, earlier it was announced last year that they would be, How many have been ???? If they have I will be more than pleased to hear it. Passenger reports suggest more ex pats are now NOT flying TG as before, and non have reported the new refurb on the European flights.
Posted 2012-02-11 06:55:54
lubbkis, on 2012-02-10 17:22:35, said:
This is what it the retro liveried Thai 747 really looked like climbing out of Heathrow in December.
 HSTGP_3503als.jpg
I believe it's not retro livered. They just peeled off the newer paint and now its back to the look of the first day it was delivered to them.
Posted 2012-02-11 07:03:29
tombkk, on 2012-02-10 22:47:48, said:
scorecard, on 2012-02-10 10:35:34, said:
MikeOboe57, on 2012-02-09 21:47:31, said:
What's all the fuss about this aircraft?
I'm sure the airlines will again pack as many seats as possible into economy class, so you won't miss the nice feeling of your legroom shrinking to zero when the pax in front makes full use of the reclining capability of his seat.
- And when the seat in front, in economy is fully back, you can't use your notebook, read a newspaper etc.
- And will these aircraft have individual movie screens in economy? Still waiting for that on Thai.
- And if this is the standard, nobody would use TG,. In fact, I prefer TG over LH when flying to Germany, because TG has the much wider pitch between the rows.
- Yes, all TG aircraft will have individual screens. The existing aircraft are being refurbished (unfortunately, this will still take some time), and new aircraft will be equipped with them from the beginning. Khun Piyavasti is well aware of the current weaknesses and why people choose certain Middle-East airlines.
Remark: Unlike my other post, this one is about economy class.
I prefer OS or KLM over both TG and LH as the pricing is almost the same, IFE and food is better and there's actually no problem to connect through VIE or AMS. If KLM could retrofit its whole 747 fleet why can't TG?
Posted 2012-02-11 08:20:08
tombkk, on 2012-02-10 22:47:48, said:
scorecard, on 2012-02-10 10:35:34, said:
MikeOboe57, on 2012-02-09 21:47:31, said:
What's all the fuss about this aircraft?
I'm sure the airlines will again pack as many seats as possible into economy class, so you won't miss the nice feeling of your legroom shrinking to zero when the pax in front makes full use of the reclining capability of his seat.
- And when the seat in front, in economy is fully back, you can't use your notebook, read a newspaper etc.
- And will these aircraft have individual movie screens in economy? Still waiting for that on Thai.
- And if this is the standard, nobody would use TG,. In fact, I prefer TG over LH when flying to Germany, because TG has the much wider pitch between the rows.
- Yes, all TG aircraft will have individual screens. The existing aircraft are being refurbished (unfortunately, this will still take some time), and new aircraft will be equipped with them from the beginning. Khun Piyavasti is well aware of the current weaknesses and why people choose certain Middle-East airlines.
Remark: Unlike my other post, this one is about economy class.
The layout of the A380 shows that Air France and Lufthansa cram the most seats in their economy class. Anyway, here is a survey for those interested in the most comfortable cattle class:
http://www.smarttrav...com/economy.htm
There is a reason why airline commercials never show their economy class...
Posted 2012-02-11 10:11:01
ginjag, on 2012-02-11 06:15:33, said:
tombkk, on 2012-02-10 22:40:23, said:
baboon, on 2012-02-09 16:42:30, said:
Doubtless the savings in fuel will be passed along to the passenger...
It would probably be put into the path of making TG profitable again.
If you mean to say that TG is too expensive, think for a moment. If they were consistently too expensive for the market, they would lose customers to the extent of flying empty.
Supply and demand determine the price, and while the price might be too high for you, other customers still choose to fly TG at the prices they offer. If the seats are upgraded and the fleet rejuvenated, I'll go back to using more TG flights again.
OK the new planes, if they are delivered will all have arrived by 2017, so big losses will be on the cards until then, as 1.or2 deliveries will not bring Thai back into profit. TG is too expensive for what you get, passenger numbers have dwindled. You also said IF the seats are upgraded, earlier it was announced last year that they would be, How many have been ???? If they have I will be more than pleased to hear it. Passenger reports suggest more ex pats are now NOT flying TG as before, and non have reported the new refurb on the European flights.
I don't know how many new planes have been delivered since the meeting, or how many have been refurbished. In fact, I didn't even memorize the chart that he showed, in which the plan clearly showed which type of aircraft will be refurbished when, so I cannot even answer your question about these details. Sorry to disappoint you.
My point is that something is being done, but slower than planned. If the customers decide that it's too slow, they will use other airlines. I am one of those customers, and I am looking forward to TG having seats that are up to today's expectations, and I am talking about both business and economy class, and then I'll be happy to use them again.
Posted 2012-02-11 10:15:01
shunima, on 2012-02-11 07:03:29, said:
tombkk, on 2012-02-10 22:47:48, said:
scorecard, on 2012-02-10 10:35:34, said:
MikeOboe57, on 2012-02-09 21:47:31, said:
What's all the fuss about this aircraft?
I'm sure the airlines will again pack as many seats as possible into economy class, so you won't miss the nice feeling of your legroom shrinking to zero when the pax in front makes full use of the reclining capability of his seat.
- And when the seat in front, in economy is fully back, you can't use your notebook, read a newspaper etc.
- And will these aircraft have individual movie screens in economy? Still waiting for that on Thai.
- And if this is the standard, nobody would use TG,. In fact, I prefer TG over LH when flying to Germany, because TG has the much wider pitch between the rows.
- Yes, all TG aircraft will have individual screens. The existing aircraft are being refurbished (unfortunately, this will still take some time), and new aircraft will be equipped with them from the beginning. Khun Piyavasti is well aware of the current weaknesses and why people choose certain Middle-East airlines.
Remark: Unlike my other post, this one is about economy class.
I prefer OS or KLM over both TG and LH as the pricing is almost the same, IFE and food is better and there's actually no problem to connect through VIE or AMS. If KLM could retrofit its whole 747 fleet why can't TG?
I just booked my ticket to Europe on OS for exactly those two reasons (IFE and food)! In fact, the food on TG is not bad, but OS is better. Main reason are the seats, though.
KLM is not on my radar, because they are not a member of the Star Alliance, but that's stuff for another topic. And we are getting off-topic anyway, because neither airline uses the 787.
Posted 2012-02-11 12:49:13
The 787 is simply beautiful. I have seen it arriving in Frankfurt 3 weeks ago (regular ANA flight from NRT) and it was an amazing sight.
#70
Oberkommando
Posted 2012-02-11 12:51:26
Quote If you mean to say that TG is too expensive, think for a moment. If they were consistently too expensive for the market, they would lose customers to the extent of flying empty.
They did manage to lose B5 billion over 9 months of last year though.
A remarkable effort.
Posted 2012-02-11 12:57:11
Orac, on 2012-02-09 16:58:24, said:
webfact, on 2012-02-09 15:54:34, said:
PM to fly Boeing's Dreamliner
Marisa Chimprabha
Is there no end to her talents?????
So its come to this for the illustrious PM.. the only way to get a decent gathering of people to listen to her and be in her presence is lock them up effectively at 40,000 ft.
Posted 2012-02-11 13:00:46
baboon, on 2012-02-09 16:42:30, said:
Doubtless the savings in fuel will be passed along to the passenger...
Nope especially when they need it to offset costs of modern, new aircraft..
Posted 2012-02-11 13:13:56
Oberkommando, on 2012-02-11 12:51:26, said:
Quote If you mean to say that TG is too expensive, think for a moment. If they were consistently too expensive for the market, they would lose customers to the extent of flying empty.
They did manage to lose B5 billion over 9 months of last year though.
A remarkable effort.
I'm not going to defend them. I neither read the financial reports over the last couple of years to check whether this is an improvement or not, neither do I know whether there were any special circumstances leading to that figure (which I didn't check either).
What I'm saying is that there is no point in complaining about their ticket price. Just use another airline of you feel TG is too expensive.
Posted 2012-02-11 14:30:53
monty1412, on 2012-02-11 12:57:11, said:
Orac, on 2012-02-09 16:58:24, said:
webfact, on 2012-02-09 15:54:34, said:
PM to fly Boeing's Dreamliner
Marisa Chimprabha
Is there no end to her talents?????
So its come to this for the illustrious PM.. the only way to get a decent gathering of people to listen to her and be in her presence is lock them up effectively at 40,000 ft.
Did she join the mile high club?
Edited by z12, 2012-02-11 14:31:03.
#75
sparebox2
Posted 2012-02-13 16:02:02
z12, on 2012-02-11 14:30:53, said:
monty1412, on 2012-02-11 12:57:11, said:
Orac, on 2012-02-09 16:58:24, said:
webfact, on 2012-02-09 15:54:34, said:
PM to fly Boeing's Dreamliner
Marisa Chimprabha
Is there no end to her talents?????
So its come to this for the illustrious PM.. the only way to get a decent gathering of people to listen to her and be in her presence is lock them up effectively at 40,000 ft.
Did she join the mile high club?
You naughty naughty.
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