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[VIBE]

Been on the committee for a few months, asked for the email of all unit owners to invite them to a new Linkedin group that was started and manager refuses to give the details.

Is she in violation of the condo law?  

One would think that any committee member has access to ANY information in regards to the condo, no?

Thanks much...

[PattayaParent]

Put a notice up on the condo notice board or slip a note under each unit door.

Give them details of the LinkedIn group and also your email address so they can send you their contact details if they want you to have them.

[VIBE]

PattayaParent, on 2012-02-10 14:05:50, said:

Put a notice up on the condo notice board or slip a note under each unit door.

Give them details of the LinkedIn group and also your email address so they can send you their contact details if they want you to have them.

I already have everyones details, but she did not know that.  I was shocked and angry that the manager feels they can withhold information from committee members and need to see if she is in violation of the condo law.  If they decide not to give contact info, then whats stopping them from withholding other info regarded the running of the building?

Thanks

[terryq]

If I was a condo owner it would depend under what circumstances I gave my  email address to the condo manager.
If it was only for her to contact me then I would be shocked and angry that she gave out my email address to anyone without my permission. As PattayaParent said notice on the board or individual notes, and provide your email address. I, personally would not join a LinkedIn group, but then I also would not own a condo, you never know what the committee members are going to be like.

[VIBE]

terryq, on 2012-02-10 17:25:47, said:

If I was a condo owner it would depend under what circumstances I gave my  email address to the condo manager.
If it was only for her to contact me then I would be shocked and angry that she gave out my email address to anyone without my permission. As PattayaParent said notice on the board or individual notes, and provide your email address. I, personally would not join a LinkedIn group, but then I also would not own a condo, you never know what the committee members are going to be like.

Well, when unit owners handed over their contact details there was no stipulation as to "how" they should be used.  The managers gets 20K per month, but is not on the premise, and does NOT reply to any unit owners emails.  Hence the linked in group being formed.

[thaiwanderer]

You already have their details so that's not the problem.

If you want to get rid of the manager you'll have to clutch at a bigger straw, seems they might be inbreach for other reasons but you'll have to startthe ball rolling.

Entirely with respect, as a commitee member you should really have familiarised yourself with the relevant laws and rules already.

If you are hoping to install a new manager be careful of work permit issues.

[VIBE]

thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-10 18:57:43, said:

You already have their details so that's not the problem.

If you want to get rid of the manager you'll have to clutch at a bigger straw, seems they might be inbreach for other reasons but you'll have to startthe ball rolling.

Entirely with respect, as a commitee member you should really have familiarised yourself with the relevant laws and rules already.

If you are hoping to install a new manager be careful of work permit issues.

I have been reading up, and compiling a document of her breach of duties.  Its not only me that is talking of replacing the JPM, other committee members are as well.  An AGM is coming up soon, so the unit owners can vote for themselves if they feel the JPM should be changed.

There is a conflict of interest with the JPM, as they are the owner of the management company that is running our building, but, they also get other contracts with the developer for new condos, so they do not want to push to get the developer to full fill their building warranty.  We are paying for them to manage the building and be JPM, yet they are never at the condo and only have the "reception" girls to handle the building.  Over the course of a year the building has deterred due to lack of management.

Thanks for any input you might have....

[Livinginexile]

Honestly Vibe, If I recieved an email from you regarding body corperate matters I would be down to the condó managers office in a flash complaining bitterly about giving my personal contact details to other tenants.
Why do you feel that sending junk emails to other residents is OK? Would you be upset if the condo manager gave out your contact details to anyone who asks?

[dave111223]

Livinginexile, on 2012-02-11 08:45:29, said:

Honestly Vibe, If I recieved an email from you regarding body corperate matters I would be down to the condó managers office in a flash complaining bitterly about giving my personal contact details to other tenants.
Why do you feel that sending junk emails to other residents is OK? Would you be upset if the condo manager gave out your contact details to anyone who asks?

If you gave your email address to the condo manager why would you assume the email was "personal"?  I would assume that anything condo related to sent to that address.  It's not like you are required to register your email address with the condo manager...

To the OP it sounds like the condo management company does not have your buildings best interested at heart.  Just shop around for other management companies (you may find some offer a better price anyways, this would be a key factor) then decide with the other committee members the best company to go with.  With majority committee support it should be no problem to get the management company change voted through at the next general meeting.

Note that some of these management companies are straight up mafia types, make sure that you keep your research quiet, and then just present it as a "committee decision"... if they see it as one man on a crusade it might be easier for you to just take a tumble down some stairs etc...

[VIBE]

Livinginexile, on 2012-02-11 08:45:29, said:

Honestly Vibe, If I recieved an email from you regarding body corperate matters I would be down to the condó managers office in a flash complaining bitterly about giving my personal contact details to other tenants.
Why do you feel that sending junk emails to other residents is OK? Would you be upset if the condo manager gave out your contact details to anyone who asks?

Well, the committee are not just "other tenants", and sending info regarding their unit in the building or the condo itself is not exactly "junk mail".  Most people would like to be better informed about what is going on in their building.  I would not be upset at all if a committee member emailed me in regards to the building.....why would I?

[VIBE]

dave111223, on 2012-02-11 10:00:13, said:

Livinginexile, on 2012-02-11 08:45:29, said:

Honestly Vibe, If I recieved an email from you regarding body corperate matters I would be down to the condó managers office in a flash complaining bitterly about giving my personal contact details to other tenants.
Why do you feel that sending junk emails to other residents is OK? Would you be upset if the condo manager gave out your contact details to anyone who asks?

If you gave your email address to the condo manager why would you assume the email was "personal"?  I would assume that anything condo related to sent to that address.  It's not like you are required to register your email address with the condo manager...

To the OP it sounds like the condo management company does not have your buildings best interested at heart.  Just shop around for other management companies (you may find some offer a better price anyways, this would be a key factor) then decide with the other committee members the best company to go with.  With majority committee support it should be no problem to get the management company change voted through at the next general meeting.

Note that some of these management companies are straight up mafia types, make sure that you keep your research quiet, and then just present it as a "committee decision"... if they see it as one man on a crusade it might be easier for you to just take a tumble down some stairs etc...

So, how to find a better management company?? If you know of any please do send me a message.  I am not the only one discussing this matter, as other committee members are as well...

[PattayaParent]

^You could hire your own JPM directly, but you'd likely have to pay more than 20k a month for a good one.

[HerbalEd]

VIBE, on 2012-02-10 14:10:48, said:

PattayaParent, on 2012-02-10 14:05:50, said:

Put a notice up on the condo notice board or slip a note under each unit door.

Give them details of the LinkedIn group and also your email address so they can send you their contact details if they want you to have them.

I already have everyones details, but she did not know that.  I was shocked and angry that the manager feels they can withhold information from committee members and need to see if she is in violation of the condo law.  If they decide not to give contact info, then whats stopping them from withholding other info regarded the running of the building?

Thanks

No one should give another person's email address, phone number, residential address, etc. to someone else without permission. The condo manager is absolutely right in not giving you this info.

[Livinginexile]

VIBE, on 2012-02-11 18:46:29, said:

Livinginexile, on 2012-02-11 08:45:29, said:

Honestly Vibe, If I recieved an email from you regarding body corperate matters I would be down to the condó managers office in a flash complaining bitterly about giving my personal contact details to other tenants.
Why do you feel that sending junk emails to other residents is OK? Would you be upset if the condo manager gave out your contact details to anyone who asks?

Well, the committee are not just "other tenants", and sending info regarding their unit in the building or the condo itself is not exactly "junk mail".  Most people would like to be better informed about what is going on in their building.  I would not be upset at all if a committee member emailed me in regards to the building.....why would I?

Ok then, how would you feel if someone gathered your personal contact details from the building management and sudenly bombarded you with unsolicited junk mail?
How the hell would I know if you're using these contact details for purely committee purposes?
For example: Say you got into a dispute with another resident. That person could march down to the management office, gather your contact details under the pretence of "committee purposes" only and then start harrasing you through your work email account!

Why don't you ask management to email all members ASKING them if it is ok to pass their email addresses to you?

[hhgz]

What makes you believe that the condo manager has an email address for everyone?  The condo act is pinned, and I'd like to know which paragrapgh regards co-owners email addresses.  When I needed to contact the other co-owners, I put a typed message in their mail slots, as other posters have suggested.

[VIBE]

I am amazed that you think its ok for committee members not be allowed to contact unit owners directly, in regards to CONDO MATTERS.  If, there are management or building issues just how are unit owners to be aware of them?  If, the JPM gets voted out, and is bitter, and decides to take all the contacts with them, just to make things difficult, what then?  What about unit owners that are overseas, and not able to check their mail box but do check email?

I never said there was anything in the condo act about email addresses.  Nor is there anything in the law that says committed members can not be entitled to this info.

Common sense tells me that giving the committee members access to the contact details of the unit owners IS A GOOD THING as it enables more transparency.  But, a corrupt manager does not want unit owners in direct contact with each other because then issues can easily be discussed and action plans formed.  Corrupt managers are counting on the attitude of some of the posters here to keep them in power.  

You wonder WHY there are so many condos here that are falling apart and in need of upkeep and repair?  Its because YOU LET IT HAPPEN by not getting involved and having a "closed" attitude.
The committee members are ELECTED and are to serve the best interests of all unit owners.  For them not to be able to contact them if and when they see fit, in regards to building matters, is well....messed up.  

Say there is a corrupt manager and the committee voted to have an extraordinary general meeting to try to vote them out, well, it would be quite difficult to arrange a meeting with all unit owners with no contact details.  Mail boxes only work for those that are living in the building.  As I said, many are overseas or have units as rentals and live in other buildings.  You think a tenant is going to care if there is some notice for a AGM?  I have also heard stories of individuals actually removing items from mail boxes.

The fact that you think your email address is all sacred and precious is amusing......same as you thinking a committee member is going to "spam" your email.  Really, is that the best excuse you can muster?  Sad.

[madjbs]

I bet you get some real power crazed loons on these "committees". Do they run election campaigns and tour the building to try and win votes?

The last thing I would want is a manager giving my contact details out to random loonies. If there was a problem I am sure people would contact you rather than you spamming them about various social networks and tea parties you are arranging.

[VIBE]

double post

Edited by VIBE, 2012-02-19 15:35:16.

[VIBE]

madjbs, on 2012-02-19 01:54:05, said:

I bet you get some real power crazed loons on these "committees". Do they run election campaigns and tour the building to try and win votes?

The last thing I would want is a manager giving my contact details out to random loonies. If there was a problem I am sure people would contact you rather than you spamming them about various social networks and tea parties you are arranging.

Actually its the opposite.  Generally its a lack of interest from the committee as no one wants anything that will cut into "their" time.  And those "loonies" are elected by the unit owners.  So, say there is a loonies, the rest of the committee can try to vote them off at the AGM.

They way you talk it seems like you do not live in a condo, nor have any knowledge of how a committee functions.  Decisions are made collectively, one individual can not enact changes by themselves.  The manager is not giving out contact details to "random loonies", that is unless you approach them asking for details, but instead to an elected committee.  

There has been direct contact from unit owners that are in regards to how the building is run.  The fact that anything they bring to the managers attention does not get addressed.  Having the contacts of the rest of the unit owners is vital to inform unit owners of the situation.

Please read my post above and try to think about the problem the committee would have if they are not able to contact the unit owners.  The committee is there to oversee the manager, and if there is a major issue with the manager then the committee has to take actions to solve the situation.  The committee acts on behalf of all unit owners.  For you to fabricate scenarios of "rogue" committed members taking sole control of a building and spamming unit owners is amusing.....mildly.

Edited by VIBE, 2012-02-19 15:34:40.

[Livinginexile]

VIBE, on 2012-02-19 15:33:07, said:

madjbs, on 2012-02-19 01:54:05, said:

I bet you get some real power crazed loons on these "committees". Do they run election campaigns and tour the building to try and win votes?

The last thing I would want is a manager giving my contact details out to random loonies. If there was a problem I am sure people would contact you rather than you spamming them about various social networks and tea parties you are arranging.

Actually its the opposite.  Generally its a lack of interest from the committee as no one wants anything that will cut into "their" time.  And those "loonies" are elected by the unit owners.  So, say there is a loonies, the rest of the committee can try to vote them off at the AGM.

They way you talk it seems like you do not live in a condo, nor have any knowledge of how a committee functions.  Decisions are made collectively, one individual can not enact changes by themselves.  The manager is not giving out contact details to "random loonies", that is unless you approach them asking for details, but instead to an elected committee.  

There has been direct contact from unit owners that are in regards to how the building is run.  The fact that anything they bring to the managers attention does not get addressed.  Having the contacts of the rest of the unit owners is vital to inform unit owners of the situation.

Please read my post above and try to think about the problem the committee would have if they are not able to contact the unit owners.  The committee is there to oversee the manager, and if there is a major issue with the manager then the committee has to take actions to solve the situation.  The committee acts on behalf of all unit owners.  For you to fabricate scenarios of "rogue" committed members taking sole control of a building and spamming unit owners is amusing.....mildly.

What is wrong with asking co-owners for their email addresses?
Is it because you know the majority won't give it to you?
Say...can I have yours? I promise I will only use it to inform you of TV matters

[VIBE]

Livinginexile, on 2012-02-20 18:26:35, said:

VIBE, on 2012-02-19 15:33:07, said:

madjbs, on 2012-02-19 01:54:05, said:

I bet you get some real power crazed loons on these "committees". Do they run election campaigns and tour the building to try and win votes?

The last thing I would want is a manager giving my contact details out to random loonies. If there was a problem I am sure people would contact you rather than you spamming them about various social networks and tea parties you are arranging.

Actually its the opposite.  Generally its a lack of interest from the committee as no one wants anything that will cut into "their" time.  And those "loonies" are elected by the unit owners.  So, say there is a loonies, the rest of the committee can try to vote them off at the AGM.

They way you talk it seems like you do not live in a condo, nor have any knowledge of how a committee functions.  Decisions are made collectively, one individual can not enact changes by themselves.  The manager is not giving out contact details to "random loonies", that is unless you approach them asking for details, but instead to an elected committee.  

There has been direct contact from unit owners that are in regards to how the building is run.  The fact that anything they bring to the managers attention does not get addressed.  Having the contacts of the rest of the unit owners is vital to inform unit owners of the situation.

Please read my post above and try to think about the problem the committee would have if they are not able to contact the unit owners.  The committee is there to oversee the manager, and if there is a major issue with the manager then the committee has to take actions to solve the situation.  The committee acts on behalf of all unit owners.  For you to fabricate scenarios of "rogue" committed members taking sole control of a building and spamming unit owners is amusing.....mildly.

What is wrong with asking co-owners for their email addresses?
Is it because you know the majority won't give it to you?
Say...can I have yours? I promise I will only use it to inform you of TV matters

You are a bit of a tard, yeah?  Did you not read my reply?  What is wrong with asking unit owners for their email address?  Nothing, if you are another unit owner.  

The committee NEEDS to be able to contact the unit owners if there if there is a problem with management.  Its just that simple.  They are to oversee the management, and that includes being able to have access to any and all info in regards to management. They are elected and are held accountable for their actions or no actions.

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[justcruisin]

thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-10 18:57:43, said:

You already have their details so that's not the problem.

If you want to get rid of the manager you'll have to clutch at a bigger straw, seems they might be inbreach for other reasons but you'll have to startthe ball rolling.

Entirely with respect, as a commitee member you should really have familiarised yourself with the relevant laws and rules already.

If you are hoping to install a new manager be careful of work permit issues.

No where did I see the OP state that he will be or wants to be the Paid J.P.?

Amazingly this topic has gone way off subject and all the rants about personal email etc.is absurd.
I have been the main committee driver in a new condo I bought in 5 years ago. I ended up training a real estate company in property management after having very similar experiences as the OP.They do a great job with 15000 a month salary for the manager/JP only. Had the developers daughter in law here for the first 2 years and saw her 3 times and completely uncontactable. Got her to finish. Had a quote to manage from a renowned Bkk management company, we, the committee declined as the company, were not too upfront with the charges but the same company got a contract for another building in the vicinity and were gone less than a year later after the sinking fund was cleaned out for over two million baht.
I have all the email contacts of all the owners, as well, the committee have a google/linkdin account to discuss things privately. It is hard to get all owners involved in the general running of any condo, let alone the thai unit owners who will not attend meetings then complain about the imposition of a levy because their counterparts have not paid maintenance fee's for 1 year or more.No one can sell until all fees are up to date and that comes with a term interest penalty.
Apart from all that it is a great building now, all friendly, the committee works, annual Xmas party etc.
VIBE stick in there, all condo's need someone like you and me !

[VIBE]

justcruisin, on 2012-02-22 02:25:32, said:

thaiwanderer, on 2012-02-10 18:57:43, said:

You already have their details so that's not the problem.

If you want to get rid of the manager you'll have to clutch at a bigger straw, seems they might be inbreach for other reasons but you'll have to startthe ball rolling.

Entirely with respect, as a commitee member you should really have familiarised yourself with the relevant laws and rules already.

If you are hoping to install a new manager be careful of work permit issues.

No where did I see the OP state that he will be or wants to be the Paid J.P.?

Amazingly this topic has gone way off subject and all the rants about personal email etc.is absurd.
I have been the main committee driver in a new condo I bought in 5 years ago. I ended up training a real estate company in property management after having very similar experiences as the OP.They do a great job with 15000 a month salary for the manager/JP only. Had the developers daughter in law here for the first 2 years and saw her 3 times and completely uncontactable. Got her to finish. Had a quote to manage from a renowned Bkk management company, we, the committee declined as the company, were not too upfront with the charges but the same company got a contract for another building in the vicinity and were gone less than a year later after the sinking fund was cleaned out for over two million baht.
I have all the email contacts of all the owners, as well, the committee have a google/linkdin account to discuss things privately. It is hard to get all owners involved in the general running of any condo, let alone the thai unit owners who will not attend meetings then complain about the imposition of a levy because their counterparts have not paid maintenance fee's for 1 year or more.No one can sell until all fees are up to date and that comes with a term interest penalty.
Apart from all that it is a great building now, all friendly, the committee works, annual Xmas party etc.
VIBE stick in there, all condo's need someone like you and me !

Finally, a rational reply!  So glad to hear that you were able to turn things around in your building, congrats on your efforts, I am sure it was not easy.

The thing is this, the JPM of our condo also owned the management company and has their staff running the building.  Lovely girls, however they are not managers but instead reception.  Any complaints from co-owners go through them, but they can not /  do not make any decisions, hence, nothing gets addressed.  I mean, there are major issues to minor issues that just keep building up.  Also, the JPM is at EVERY committee meeting, and is the one taking the minutes and trust me, the minutes DO NOT reflect accurately what is discussed at the meeting.  The JPM is also showing up with items that have been added to the agenda that were NOT on the agenda that was mailed out for all the committee members, and they are the only ones presenting the quotes for these items.  After some quotes are received, at the next meeting there are "new" quotes that the JPM brings in that just happen to be slightly lower than the ones that have already been presented.  IMO, this is NOT the way to run an honest committee or building and needs to be addressed.

Anyways, I am sure it will all come out in the wash....sooner or later......