Posted Today, 08:32
 CMSteve, on Yesterday, 19:43 , said:
It seems Thailand does have some laws that require charges to Visa usages. Here is a quote from page 21 of the same document. This is specifically a notice of a change so we do not have the whole background or extent of this Thai law...
"a variance has been granted to ATM Acquirers in Thailand to allow them to impose an Access fee on domestic ATM Cash Dispursements, as permitted by their local law.
You state "As Thai law does not require the merchant to surcharge, the shop was apparently in violation of Visa Card’s Core Principles." - How did you confirm this?
Also, a little diddy about the greater good. As you can see from the many other posters that prefer not to have to pay 3% when paying with cash just to make the few card users feel as though they are not being overcharged, maybe its in the best interest of the "whole" not to press this issue.
If the Thai law would "require" the surcharge, then it would happen on every purchase, right?
Thai law "permits" the surcharge, however it is breaching the quoted Core Principle. Further, the "variance granted" is for ATM transactions only.
The 3% surcharge are worked into the price of every product you buy at a shop that accepts credit cards. Paying with a credit card gives you your money's worth. Giving the choice of cash = net price versus credit card = surcharge would actually ruin the credit card business and therefore it cannot be in the interest of the credit card companies to allow this practice.
I prefer credit card payments simply because I hate having large amounts of cash on me.
Posted Today, 08:57
So you are saying you did not/can not confirm your statement?
And yes the specific quote I gave is about ATM usages domestically, as I clearly stated. I also pointed out it was from a notice of changes and does not state the law nor the entirety of its reach.
" If the Thai law would "require" the surcharge, then it would happen on every purchase, right? "
The Visa regulations, as you quoted previously, "No Surcharging Unless Required by Law
Charging for the Advertised Price
Visa merchants agree to accept Visa cards for payment of goods or services without charging any
amount over the advertised or normal price as a condition of Visa card acceptance, unless local law
requires that merchants be permitted to engage in such practice."
Thai Law does not need to require a surcharge, it merely need to require that a merchant has the right to do so, or from the other direction, require Visa to allow the merchant to make the decision.
And yes, I to prefer not to walk around with wads of cash, but have noticed that there are banks of ATM's outside or inside of every major store. - Although, I don't rack up nearly as many points nowadays....
edit: After a few minutes of web surfing a memory hit me pretty hard. I have to agree that using CC's for purchases, especially high baht purchases, is good because of the insurances and guarantees offered by the CC companies. I was one of the 300+ students the CMU dropped and left visa-less. The only way I got my money back was through the CC company that I had paid with. To this day there are many many that not only lost their visa, but did not receive a single baht as a refund.
raro, on Today, 08:32 , said:
CMSteve, on Yesterday, 19:43 , said:
It seems Thailand does have some laws that require charges to Visa usages. Here is a quote from page 21 of the same document. This is specifically a notice of a change so we do not have the whole background or extent of this Thai law...
"a variance has been granted to ATM Acquirers in Thailand to allow them to impose an Access fee on domestic ATM Cash Dispursements, as permitted by their local law.
You state "As Thai law does not require the merchant to surcharge, the shop was apparently in violation of Visa Card’s Core Principles." - How did you confirm this?
Also, a little diddy about the greater good. As you can see from the many other posters that prefer not to have to pay 3% when paying with cash just to make the few card users feel as though they are not being overcharged, maybe its in the best interest of the "whole" not to press this issue.
If the Thai law would "require" the surcharge, then it would happen on every purchase, right?
Thai law "permits" the surcharge, however it is breaching the quoted Core Principle. Further, the "variance granted" is for ATM transactions only.
The 3% surcharge are worked into the price of every product you buy at a shop that accepts credit cards. Paying with a credit card gives you your money's worth. Giving the choice of cash = net price versus credit card = surcharge would actually ruin the credit card business and therefore it cannot be in the interest of the credit card companies to allow this practice.
I prefer credit card payments simply because I hate having large amounts of cash on me.
Edited by CMSteve, Today, 09:23 .
Posted Today, 10:57
Any lawyer out there who can give a correct interpretation of the wording?
Posted Today, 11:04
WinnieTheKhwai, on 2012-05-16 16:42:22, said:
scorecard, on 2012-05-16 11:42:40, said:
Credit card number theft is rampant in Thailand (and other countries too of course), and It's a regulation of the Bank of Thailand that:
1. Merchants are forbidden to print all of the 16 actual digits on either the customer or merchant slips. XXXX XXXX XXXX 1234 or similar is allowed.
2. Merchants are forbidden to record all the 16 actual digits in any other form of record keeping.
But there are many merchants who ignore the above and their printers still printing all of the 16 actual digits.
Of just maybe that's entirely preventable through the hardware issued by the credit card company ant its partners? Seems a software issue to me, and one that they can correct if they wanted to.
And in addition, in over half a decade they haven't figured out a security model that requires a little more than the card and 'a signature' .. They security mess (and indeed it is one) is entirely of their own making.
Yes it's asoftware issue within the card machine at the merchants store. I know this because I was talkin to a friend of my son who had just expanded his shoe shop into a bigger enterprise at a major shopping centre. He also applied to his banks and got approval to have CC card facilities.
He mentioned that a bank employee came to do the initial installation / set-up of the card swip machine and the bank guy explained in details what he was setting up and mentioned that he (his bank) was obliged by law to do some set up work, on the card swipe machine, so that the printer printed XXXX XXXX XXXX 1234 etc., and not all the actual numbers.
Posted Today, 11:23
Just found this and you may be correct. I haven't been able to track ifs its taken effect yet, but take a look. Its a write up about a 2010 draft that was approved. It calls for the removal of surcharges and minimum purchases...
" August 03, 2010 - Bangkok, Thailand - Thai laws on credit card administration are about to change, following a long period of perceived inequitable treatment. BSA Law, a leading corporate legal service in Thailand, is urging businesses that use a credit card to be proactive about supporting the laws.
Apisakde Kongkangwanchoke, partner at BSA Law, says that businesses can help support the change by exercising their rights as credit consumers.
"We're encouraging businesses to keep an eye on this legislation, and vote for the better lenders with their dollar. It will take time for the change to become fully entrenched, but these are important laws and business support for moral lenders will help encourage the change", Mr Kongkangwanchoke said.
The new Thai laws on credit card administration are set to include measures like:
• Capping fees and interest rates for non-bank lenders
• Setting standards regarding interest calculation
• Setting standards for debt collection
• Prohibiting the application of annual fees to credit cards, a measure unique across much of the world
• Removing surcharges and minimum purchase amounts for credit card use in stores
The new Thai laws are yet to be enacted, but the Cabinet approved the Draft Bill on June 23rd. "
raro, on Today, 10:57 , said:
Any lawyer out there who can give a correct interpretation of the wording?
Posted A minute ago
Maybe Visa doesn't mind a discount as opposed to a surcharge. From their Visa International Operating Regulations Core Priniples, effective 15 October, 2011, and under paragraph 6.2:
Merchants may steer customers who initially present a Visa card to an alternative
method of payment, such as providing discounts for cash, but may not do so in a confusing manner
that denies consumer choice.
This seems to me as long as the surcharge is in the price, discount for cash is ok. This is Visa International, not Thai laws.
This practice has gone on for a long time at least in Chiang Mai. My experience is that it is less practiced now than some years ago.
MSPain
Edited by hml367, A minute ago.
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