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[News_Editor]

France's Hollande defends early troop pullout from Afghanistan < br />
2012-05-26 02:42:02 GMT+7 (ICT)

KABUL, AFGHANISTAN (BNO NEWS) -- During a surprise visit to Afghanistan on Friday, President François Hollande of France defended his decision to withdraw French combat troops two years before the rest of the U.S.-led force in Afghanistan, saying the mission against insurgents is almost accomplished.


Accompanied by Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius and Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian, Hollande arrived in the Afghan capital of Kabul on Friday morning to meet with French troops, pay his respects to the 83 French soldiers killed in the war, and meet with Afghan President Hamid Karzai.


Hollande has received criticism for going ahead with his election pledge to pull out French combat troops by the end of 2012, a year earlier than the deadline set by former president Nicolas Sarkozy and two years before the 130,000-strong U.S.-led NATO force is scheduled to withdraw.


"The mission of fighting terrorism and chasing out the Taliban is close to being accomplished," Hollande said in Kabul. "This is something we can be very proud of." With about 3,300 soldiers, France is the fifth largest contributor to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). Hollande wants to withdraw 2,000 of them by the end of the year, leaving only 1,300 non-combat troops.


The new French president said the withdrawal, which he called a 'sovereign decision', will take place in close consultation with the Afghan government and NATO allies. The remaining 1,300 non-combat troops will oversee the repatriation of equipment, provide support and train Afghan security forces.


U.S. President Barack Obama previously ordered a drawdown of 23,000 U.S. troops by the end of this summer, and foreign combat troops are due to leave Afghanistan by the end of 2014. The ISAF force currently includes some 90,000 U.S. soldiers and more than 9,500 British soldiers.


-- thaivisa.com © BNO News All rights reserved 2012-05-26

[geriatrickid]

It is unfortunate that the French are unable to honour their agreement.  It is fortunate for the French  that the Commonwealth and the USA honoured their word 70+ years ago.

[Huayrat]

Raising the white flag per usual.. They r born with it in hand

[Scott]

A post has been deleted.  Please stay on the topic.

[Exsexyman]

Huayrat, on Yesterday, 19:08 , said:

Raising the white flag per usual.. They r born with it in hand

Pathetic comment to be honest, but sadly typical of the average Sun reader mentality. Congratulations to the new French Prime Minister for putting the interests of his countrymen before the interests of American drug barons. Setting an example to the rest of the European poodles who are slavishly getting down on their knees. No wonder America is held in such contempt by the rest of the educated civilised world. "Change we can believe in!" What a laugh! Pass the sick bag.

[Morch]

Exsexyman, on Today, 05:46 , said:

Huayrat, on Yesterday, 19:08 , said:

Raising the white flag per usual.. They r born with it in hand

Pathetic comment to be honest, but sadly typical of the average Sun reader mentality. Congratulations to the new French Prime Minister for putting the interests of his countrymen before the interests of American drug barons. Setting an example to the rest of the European poodles who are slavishly getting down on their knees. No wonder America is held in such contempt by the rest of the educated civilised world. "Change we can believe in!" What a laugh! Pass the sick bag.

I do believe he is (like almost ANY other politician), taking care of his own interests first, his country's second. Well, they tend to mix those two sometimes.

While French bashing isn't in order (pretty sure bet not all voters support this move), talk of "American drug barons" and playing spokeman for the "rest of the educated civilized world" isn't much different.

I wonder how would people react if the USA pulled out troops early, leaving its allies to fend on their own.

[Scott]

I think we can speculate until the cows come home,  however, this topic is about France, not America.  I think opinions can be expressed without bashing any country.

[Steely Dan]

This move though predictable demonstrates that the opinion of the French Muslim population, who voted for Hollande in large numbers is more important to him than any commitments France may have made vis foreign policy. I just hope France don't find they need bailing out by America in the near future or they may well be disappointed.

[folium]

Steely Dan, on Today, 08:27 , said:

This move though predictable demonstrates that the opinion of the French Muslim population, who voted for Hollande in large numbers is more important to him than any commitments France may have made vis foreign policy. I just hope France don't find they need bailing out by America in the near future or they may well be disappointed.

Opinion poll carried out by Ifop in late 2011 showed 76% in favour of a French pullout from Afghanistan, with 44% wanting it immediate and a further 35% in 2012 or 2013 (ie before the original exit date of 2014 in tandem with the US).

Therefore it was hardly a tough call for Hollande to make and merely follows the actions of the Dutch (withdrew 2010) and Canada (2011).

Sadly the Afghan campaign has suffered from muddled political objectives, Iraqi distractions, and a failure to sell the war to domestic audiences. Now compounded by economic considerations, the swing of public opinion against the war puts immense pressure on democratic politicians.

[flying]

Support troops by not supporting the lies that are getting them killed.

I think the French got this one right....a little later than need be but at least they *see*

[geriatrickid]

folium, on Today, 10:17 , said:

Steely Dan, on Today, 08:27 , said:

This move though predictable demonstrates that the opinion of the French Muslim population, who voted for Hollande in large numbers is more important to him than any commitments France may have made vis foreign policy. I just hope France don't find they need bailing out by America in the near future or they may well be disappointed.

Opinion poll carried out by Ifop in late 2011 showed 76% in favour of a French pullout from Afghanistan, with 44% wanting it immediate and a further 35% in 2012 or 2013 (ie before the original exit date of 2014 in tandem with the US).

Therefore it was hardly a tough call for Hollande to make and merely follows the actions of the Dutch (withdrew 2010) and Canada (2011).

Sadly the Afghan campaign has suffered from muddled political objectives, Iraqi distractions, and a failure to sell the war to domestic audiences. Now compounded by economic considerations, the swing of public opinion against the war puts immense pressure on democratic politicians.

The French saw a minimal amount of action in Afghanistan  As such, they have a moral responsibility to support the 3 allies that bore the brunt of action in AFghanistan during the draw down.  Sentiment is very strong in the USA, UK and Canada to withdraw all troops, yet these governments are honouring their commitments to ensure an effective transition. The French  retreat is sheer cowardice and an attempt to curry favour with certain vocal interest groups in France.  For the record, the death toll for the 3  countries that carried the bulk of fighting were as follows; United States 1,886, UK 395 and Canada 158.
Yes, it is tragic that 86 French soldiers died in Afghanistan, but it is telling that many other countries paid a much higher price per contingent. Poland, Australia, Denmark, the Nederlands all took it harder (as a % of personnel)  than the French and yet none of these countries abandoned their allies. The French, Italians and Germans sought out the least dangerous areas to place their personnel and left the nasty zones of Kandahar to the UK, Canada and USA. Kandahar was the killing zone and the French wouldn't go there. The Australians  were  not afraid of Kandahar and provided their special ops teams to provide cover to the Canadian and US forces stationed there, while the French and some other Europeans stayed safe.  And now the French leave. They won't even provide  protection for NGOs. This speaks volumes.
I am sorry, but I have absolutely no use for the current French government and its position on this matter. As usual, the responsibility for keeping  the EU safe in future  will once again fall upon the weary shoulders of the UK,  Nederlands and Denmark. It is so typical. Some things never change. I suppose when  the national psyche is influenced by standing up to totalitarian bullies in the past, it influences the political policies of future generations.

[flying]

geriatrickid, on Today, 11:44 , said:

The French  retreat is sheer cowardice and an attempt to curry favour with certain vocal interest groups in France.

I stopped reading there because if it is cowardice then the rest display extreme stupidity for staying.
For What? To then leave at a predetermined date?
I have never heard such ignorance as to spend lives with a predetermined exit date.

This will end the same as all incursions into that region....Lives wasted

PS: I am not French

Edited by flying, Today, 11:52 .

[Ulysses G.]

flying, on Today, 11:51 , said:

I have never heard such ignorance as to spend lives with a predetermined exit date.

I do not agree with you on much, but this is the exception. Without victory, telling the enemy when your troops will be withdrawing in advance is the height of stupidity.

[bigbamboo]

Morch, on Today, 06:51 , said:

Exsexyman, on Today, 05:46 , said:

Huayrat, on Yesterday, 19:08 , said:

Raising the white flag per usual.. They r born with it in hand

Pathetic comment to be honest, but sadly typical of the average Sun reader mentality. Congratulations to the new French Prime Minister for putting the interests of his countrymen before the interests of American drug barons. Setting an example to the rest of the European poodles who are slavishly getting down on their knees. No wonder America is held in such contempt by the rest of the educated civilised world. "Change we can believe in!" What a laugh! Pass the sick bag.

I do believe he is (like almost ANY other politician), taking care of his own interests first, his country's second. Well, they tend to mix those two sometimes.

While French bashing isn't in order (pretty sure bet not all voters support this move), talk of "American drug barons" and playing spokeman for the "rest of the educated civilized world" isn't much different.

I wonder how would people react if the USA pulled out troops early, leaving its allies to fend on their own.

As the French say,  "Pas delle yeux Rhone que nous."

Edited by bigbamboo, Today, 18:21 .

[Scott]

Please be aware of the following, which is taken from the forum rules:

English is the only acceptable language, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[folium]

geriatrickid, on Today, 11:44 , said:

The French saw a minimal amount of action in Afghanistan  As such, they have a moral responsibility to support the 3 allies that bore the brunt of action in AFghanistan during the draw down.  Sentiment is very strong in the USA, UK and Canada to withdraw all troops, yet these governments are honouring their commitments to ensure an effective transition. The French  retreat is sheer cowardice and an attempt to curry favour with certain vocal interest groups in France.  For the record, the death toll for the 3  countries that carried the bulk of fighting were as follows; United States 1,886, UK 395 and Canada 158.
Yes, it is tragic that 86 French soldiers died in Afghanistan, but it is telling that many other countries paid a much higher price per contingent. Poland, Australia, Denmark, the Nederlands all took it harder (as a % of personnel)  than the French and yet none of these countries abandoned their allies. The French, Italians and Germans sought out the least dangerous areas to place their personnel and left the nasty zones of Kandahar to the UK, Canada and USA. Kandahar was the killing zone and the French wouldn't go there. The Australians  were  not afraid of Kandahar and provided their special ops teams to provide cover to the Canadian and US forces stationed there, while the French and some other Europeans stayed safe.  And now the French leave. They won't even provide  protection for NGOs. This speaks volumes.
I am sorry, but I have absolutely no use for the current French government and its position on this matter. As usual, the responsibility for keeping  the EU safe in future  will once again fall upon the weary shoulders of the UK,  Nederlands and Denmark. It is so typical. Some things never change. I suppose when  the national psyche is influenced by standing up to totalitarian bullies in the past, it influences the political policies of future generations.

What a load of absolute nonsense!

While undoubtedly much of the French contingent within ISAF was initially deployed to quieter areas of Afghanistan, their deployment to and assumption of TAOR Kapisa in 2008 saw a swift jump in casualties as, contrary to your statements, they took on one of the hardest areas in country.

The French SF have been playing a key role in partnership with the other SF contingents throughout the Helmand and Kandahar areas. Their air force contingent based out of Kandahar have also clocked up hours of close air support and have won the praises of many on the ground for their timely intervention. See below for a couple of articles highlighting your idea of French "cowardice",

http://www.thestar.c...ces-in-kandahar

http://www.stripes.c...-troops-1.96007

It has obviously escaped your notice but Canadian combat ops in Afghanistan ended in July 2011, leaving some 950 troops in a training role. As the French intend to leave 1400 troops in training and logistic roles post 31 Dec 2012, not quite sure where that leaves your claims.

You claim that Poland, Denmark, Australia and Netherlands haven't bugged out. Well the Dutch left in Aug 2010 see below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...h-asia-10829837

The Poles plan to have all combat troops out of Afghanistan this year.

http://www.ft.com/in...l#axzz1w42MEKVS

Not sure where the idea that EU security rests on the UK, Netherlands and Denmark. While the UK does play a shrinking but still material role, the other 2 have hardly ever been first-rate players, apart from SF and specialized troops.

"when the national psyche is influenced by standing up to totalitarian bullies in the past, it influences the political policies of future generations". ??

Really not sure what this is all about  (must be referring to UK, Australia & USA?), but I presume you refer to WW2 when Denmark held out for 2 hours and lost 16 killed (about the same as Thailand's "resistance" to the Japanese invasion), and the Danish government and Crown then cooperated with the Nazis until August 1943, a stance condemned as "morally unjustifiable" by Prime Minister Rasmussen in 2003. Also some 6,000 Danes joined the SS Danish Freikorps and fought on the Eastern front.

Similarly while Holland suffered far more from the German invasion and occupation, some 55,000 Dutch (the second largest contingent of non-Germans in the SS) answered the call of posters like below and were formed up in the SS Nordland Division, and were the final defenders of the Reichstag, Berlin in April 1945.




And I'm not even French nor even a great fan of theirs!! Though I would love to see you explain your point of view to a poilu from 1er RIMa, it would be a fairly short but  fully deserved learning experience!

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.  Again, the thread is about France and the withdrawal from Afghanistan.  WW2, Lend Lease, the Vietnam War and President Eisenhower are off-topic.

[folium]

Neat piece from the BBC about some of the logistical issues as the ISAF forces begin their pullout from Afghanistan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...d-asia-17999603