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12 replies to this topic
Posted 2012-07-16 19:52:57
We are currently trying to remove the managing agent and developer from the committee.
However at the first attempt they disqualified all scanned signed proxy forms as they would only accept the original signature.
Now they have added an additional condition that all such originally signed proxy must be accompanied by an attorney.
Can someone please advise as to the validity of such conditions as i cant find such restrictions under the condo act, but it maybe under common or some other relevant law.
we have engaged a lawyer but i would like to substantiate any such advice he provides because i am losing confidence in him.
Posted 2012-07-17 15:20:17
Committee members must be co –owners.
Committee members and the JPM cannot carry proxies.
Committee members can be voted on and off at a general meeting.
Original proxies are required-with a copy of the passport /I.D. card of the proxy issuer.
No requirement for anything else.
The issuer of a proxy automatically creates the status of attorney to the proxy carrier . The simple act delegating voting rights from issuer to carrier achieves this.
I attach a JPEG giving more detail
(note: for ‘Juristic Manager ‘(paragraph 4) read ‘External Management company’
Posted 2012-07-17 17:37:43
thank you. I have read the other thread you made with interest.
i have a situation where the developer controls the committee and the jpm was appointed by them, we have no control.
i have found all sorts of things going on, common areas not transferred, use of sinking fund, mortgages on everything buildings,condos not transferred the list is endless.
i need a lawyer to help us, we cant seem to find one that knows the condo act in detail.
do you know anyone..
what i am going thru is probably a classic study of a new resort development which hopefully i will post on to thaivisa to help others.i think i just realized what was happening earlier than they expected, probably this stuff goes on and co-owners are very innocent of the facts.
anything else i should look at or consider..
Posted 2012-07-17 19:02:32
It sounds like your condo is exactly the same as was the condo where I live –approx, 2 years into it’s life.
You will probably find that a bank account named –‘Condo Name’ Condominium Juristic Person has not been set up. If not then your payments will all go to an account that is not visible to the co –owners.
The developer will then typically use these funds for other and separate projects. Illegal
You do not need lawyer. What you need is a plan.
The best place to start is at the end. How do you think the condo should be managed after getting rid of the current JPM.
A good management company was the route that me and my fellow frustrated co –owners selected. It has proven to be a successful outcome.
Under the condo act you replace the JPM with a new one. This is carried out at a EGM (Extra General Meeting) and that EGM is called at a co –owners meeting.
Clearly there is much detail that you need to embrace.
The first stage is to get together with other co –owners and see if a plan has a chance of success. You will need 20% of co owner votes at the 1st co –owner meeting =this meeting calls the EGM. I would suggest that you get a list of all the co –owners –a list that will detail their voting allocation. The land office should provide this.
With this list in place then arrange an informal meeting with fellow co -owners. The aim of this meeting is to assess the chances of success. You need a winning vote at the EGM to replace JPM and this vote (which can include proxies) must comprise at least 25% of the total vote.
Your current manager will probably rely on’ divide and rule’ as a tactic .You will need to find a way -ideally via e mail –to communicate with all the co –owners.
You have much to do
Posted 2012-07-17 19:21:03
thank you for that:
you are correct it is exactly 2 years.
we will keep trying.
how do i pm you privately.
Posted 2012-07-17 20:28:29
Feel free to contact me via ThaiVisa -Just look at my profile
Posted 2012-07-19 01:10:50
Your problem is one of the important reasons that were pointed out in a recent thread why it is highly advantageous to buy into an older condominium with checkable long term upkeep and a non-developer power structure with a properly elected committee.
A new building can be OK but frankly is a gamble.
This problem with developers is not uncommon.
Some developers apart from anything else were retaining many units (and thus very strong voting positions) but not contributing to the common fees. Happily this has been made more difficult by the revised condo act which means unpaid fees attract swingeing interest and financials must by law be posted publicly every month. Suggest you check the latter is complied with.....
Edited by cheeryble, 2012-07-19 01:13:33.
Posted 2012-08-24 13:10:55
Thanks to all the advice.
We removed the Jpm and also removed the committee and gave notice to the management company whose actions only suited the developer at the egm.
It does take a lot of effort and persuasion as some Thais do not like to confront the developer, we did this primarily through the use of proxies.
Of course transition is difficult as both the developer and management company were taken by surprise.
It was a bit like a soap opera, you have to be very careful who is on your side and not feeding information to the developer or the management agent for their own benefit and don't get down with the constant lies and barriers.
Completely agree, buy into an established condo, it took a very dedicated group of co- owners to succeed you cannot possibly do it as a lone co- owner.
Advice - don't buy off plan these things are just not obvious until the condo is transferred and then can only be confronted if you have a group of interested co- owners, we were fortunate.
Posted 2012-08-27 16:03:32
We have appointed a temporary juristic person to replace the current one who was the managing agent who we have fired.
Question: can a temporary juristic person sign a contract for the new managing agencies, yes or no.?
We will vote in the new jpm at our next egm which will maybe in a month.
Posted 2012-08-27 18:36:01
A temporary JPM (will be a committee member) must be appointed 7 days after the departure of the former JPM and YES he/she can sign a contract. The decision to appoint a particular management company must be agreed by the majority of the committee members.I assume that this managing agent is a one stop shop for services only.The notion of a temporary JPM usually applies if the former JPM is no longer available. The regular procedure is to replace old JPM with new JPM at the same co -owner general meeting.Out of curiosity how do you see the future management structure?
Edited by Delight, 2012-08-27 18:47:08.
Posted 2012-08-27 19:24:23
The committee agreed to allow the current jpm to stay in place until sept 7th, at our first new committee meeting we appointed a co- owner ( not on the committee) as a temporary jpm from sept 8th..
However, we want to sign a contract with a new managing agency before the 7th, we were informed By the land department that the temporary Jp couldn't sign a contract until confirmed at egm? ( even after 7th), this defies logic..
Management structure..will be:co- owner as jpm, committee and a separate managing agent, separate outsource for security, direct employees for cleaning, maintaining swimming pool etc...once we have got things sorted and settled we may run it without an agent..
Posted 2012-08-27 21:48:25
The land office is correct.
The current JPM can sign the contract-he is still the JPM .The proposed new guy cannot.
Can I assume that the current JPM does not want to sign.
If he won’ t sign –then suspend him –by committee vote- on the grounds of his not being able to perform his duties .
He will automatically go on the 7th
The Act states
Section 38.- The committee shall retain the authority and duty as follows:
(1) to controls the management of the condominium juristic person;
(2) to appoint one committee member to be the juristic person manager in case that such manager is not available or the manager is unable to perform his duty for over seven days;
(3) to convene a committee meeting at least once every six months;
(4) to perform other duties as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations
Remember the JPM reports to the committee-not the other way round.
Elect a committee member as a temporary JPM and let him sign.
One out –one in --- all the same meeting
Your minutes for this move will need to be in Thai.
You mention a co –owners as a JPM. I take it this is a salaried post and there will be no building manager i.e. the JPM does the lot
Edited by Delight, 2012-08-27 22:13:42.
Posted 2012-08-31 15:55:29
For all intense and purpose who really cares what the Land Office says regarding the temporary JPM not being able to sign the contract, a contract between a JPM and an managing agent would not really have anything to do with the lands department. Cant you just speak to the incoming managing agent and have the Committee sign an LOI or even a contract with a clause stipulating that on appointment of a new JPM the contract will be signed, or redone etc. Unless there are people actively looking to cause bother in the building i dont see why the contract formalities cannot be completed after the next General Meeting when a new JPM is elected.
I am not sure the condo act allows for the committee to appoint a Co-owner as a temporary JPM who is not on the Committee, I believe it stipulates it must be a Committee Member, but i doubt it really matters. The only critical point that you may have which could annoy some Co-owners is that you could well have difficulties with having debt free certificates signed and accepted by the lands department by a temporary JPM. Obviosuly if someone was trying to sell their unit and the deal fell through as there they could not get a valid debt free cert accepted, then they could potentially try and take some kind of action against the Committee. All other issues there would be no problem having a temp JPM.
One last point, I would definately advice against employing cleaners, garderners etc directly with the Condominium. Outsourcing is far better and less hassle in most instances.
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