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[simcity]

I did go to kow samui twice, as with phuket I did not like the mafia and scavenger there .
Same as phuket I will not return !

PS I am sure many people in Bangkok feel like me, and Phuket did miss to have the presence support after the tsunami..

[Jiu-Jitsu]

sassienie, on 2006-01-31 05:56:46, said:

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

This strikes me as either one of the most naive or disingenuous posts that I have read in a while.

When was the last time, anywhere in the world, were two tourists, British or otherwise, murdered by a POLICEMAN?
I don't need to mention who the prime suspect is in the rpe and murder of Kirsty Jones.

Thank goodness the British media took on the Katherine Horton murder. if they didn't, do you think we would have even heard about the earlier rape of the British girl on Samui and the two Swedes reportedly raped and the girl in Pattaya.
MOST of the time, you WON'T hear about the violence.

When tourists are told that they will have to return time and time again to the police station in order to press charges, many just choose to return home.
A female friend of mine was attacked on Samui a while ago. Only because she had some connections did she get any justice at all and certainly not from the police.

On Samui, it's WHO you know. If you don't know anyone, forget about justice. In fact, expect to pay.

When I had something stolen from the place were I was staying, I went to make a report. Mainly for insurance purposes. The 'investigator' tried to convince me that I had 'lost' it, so that he didn't have to make a report.
I refused to go along with his game and insisted that I wanted a police report.

So off we went to Chaweng to take photos of the scene. He wanted me to sit in the back of pick up, like a common criminal. That wasn't going to happen.
A contact of mine confided in me that the 'high ranking' policeman wanted to 'do something to me'.
Later on, when he found out about 'my credentials' things changed for the better.
It seemed as if the whole of the Samui police force was mobilised that day, with a couple of them supplying me with their mobile telephone number.

It was not so long ago that the UK police changed the way they views crimes like rape and domestic violence.
So how far do you think a girl, foreign or otherwise, would get reporting a rape in Thailand?

That's not to reflect badly on Thailand itself. One just has to realise that tourism is booming in Thailand, bringing 'civilised' Westerners alongside practices which they may consider outdated.

For example, I'm sure you may remember, not too long ago, defences against rape in the UK including; "She asked for it", She was wearing a low cut top, short skirt etc" Basically if a girl was wearing sexually provocative clothing, they were seen to have "led the man on".

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

So, thank God that this sort of thing is finally getting some publicity.

Maybe you have a business out there and are trying to protect your investment, but that doesn't mean that you should turn a blind eye as to what is right and wrong.

There is a LOT that goes on out there that goes unreported and you'd be niave to think otherwise.

[sriracha john]

Jiu-Jitsu, on 2006-01-31 08:25:24, said:

sassienie, on 2006-01-31 05:56:46, said:

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

This strikes me as either one of the most naive or disingenuous posts that I have read in a while.

When was the last time, anywhere in the world, were two tourists, British or otherwise, murdered by a POLICEMAN?
I don't need to mention who the prime suspect is in the rpe and murder of Kirsty Jones.

Thank goodness the British media took on the Katherine Horton murder. if they didn't, do you think we would have even heard about the earlier rape of the British girl on Samui and the two Swedes reportedly raped and the girl in Pattaya.
MOST of the time, you WON'T hear about the violence.

When tourists are told that they will have to return time and time again to the police station in order to press charges, many just choose to return home.
A female friend of mine was attacked on Samui a while ago. Only because she had some connections did she get any justice at all and certainly not from the police.

On Samui, it's WHO you know. If you don't know anyone, forget about justice. In fact, expect to pay.

When I had something stolen from the place were I was staying, I went to make a report. Mainly for insurance purposes. The 'investigator' tried to convince me that I had 'lost' it, so that he didn't have to make a report.
I refused to go along with his game and insisted that I wanted a police report.

So off we went to Chaweng to take photos of the scene. He wanted me to sit in the back of pick up, like a common criminal. That wasn't going to happen.
A contact of mine confided in me that the 'high ranking' policeman wanted to 'do something to me'.
Later on, when he found out about 'my credentials' things changed for the better.
It seemed as if the whole of the Samui police force was mobilised that day, with a couple of them supplying me with their mobile telephone number.

It was not so long ago that the UK police changed the way they views crimes like rape and domestic violence.
So how far do you think a girl, foreign or otherwise, would get reporting a rape in Thailand?

That's not to reflect badly on Thailand itself. One just has to realise that tourism is booming in Thailand, bringing 'civilised' Westerners alongside practices which they may consider outdated.

For example, I'm sure you may remember, not too long ago, defences against rape in the UK including; "She asked for it", She was wearing a low cut top, short skirt etc" Basically if a girl was wearing sexually provocative clothing, they were seen to have "led the man on".

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

So, thank God that this sort of thing is finally getting some publicity.

Maybe you have a business out there and are trying to protect your investment, but that doesn't mean that you should turn a blind eye as to what is right and wrong.

There is a LOT that goes on out there that goes unreported and you'd be niave to think otherwise.

A well done, factual, astute and excellent post, Jiu-Jitsu

[charlesfrith]

I'm skipping some reality here on the narrative. The following sentence says......

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

Well, sex is a very complex subject and I want to make it clear that I adore this country and particularly the women, but I only have a couple of Thai male friends after many years of living here. It's so tough to make genuine friendships, although they are valuable if achieved. I challenge most occidentals to be honest about how many male Thai friends they have and if none why? It's because in the main they are not very warm. That said Thai guys who are cool do keep themselves to themselves.

However for whatever reason(s) this is also the country where I sometimes wonder what short circuit is wired in the cortex for the guys who manage or work on the periphery of the prostitution trade. OK it's a 'money' short circuit but the evidence is on the streets. Thai men are largely unbothered by any exposure to intrusive intimacy, nudity, sexual acts and unrestrained commercialisation of their sisters bodies to foreign men. Money and the culture of using women for recreational purposes in their own environment might be responsible for the absence of deep seated hostility. To make matters worse Thai women who work in the trade loathe them for reasons I don't think it would be appropriate for foreigners to discuss.

By coincidence I clarified this last night when I asked a very good Thai female friend why 30-40% of taxi drivers seem impossible to win over no matter how courteous or patient one is. It had never occured to me that an Occidental with a good command of Thai and knowledge of the routes has immediately just dropped some 50% in value as a gullible fare. Those are her words not mine. I was so ready for jealousy and resentment to be the reason.

So I have to say the obvious. This country is crawling with what I view as the loosest of feet and the freest of fancy women, possibly in the world. It's also largely through choice not circumstance. It's a lifestyle decision one that should be discussed in a more mature context, but again, it's sex and the irrational descends on the subject.

But to suggest that Caucasian women 'set a bad example' is an extraordinarily mono directional view of the world. I can see how the reasoning starts off but c'mon... A grip is needed.

I guess it's a tangential topic to the original post, but it's one I'm itching to find intelligent views on and maybe even learn a few things.

c.

sriracha john, on 2006-01-31 09:36:23, said:

Jiu-Jitsu, on 2006-01-31 08:25:24, said:

sassienie, on 2006-01-31 05:56:46, said:

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

This strikes me as either one of the most naive or disingenuous posts that I have read in a while.

When was the last time, anywhere in the world, were two tourists, British or otherwise, murdered by a POLICEMAN?
I don't need to mention who the prime suspect is in the rpe and murder of Kirsty Jones.

Thank goodness the British media took on the Katherine Horton murder. if they didn't, do you think we would have even heard about the earlier rape of the British girl on Samui and the two Swedes reportedly raped and the girl in Pattaya.
MOST of the time, you WON'T hear about the violence.

When tourists are told that they will have to return time and time again to the police station in order to press charges, many just choose to return home.
A female friend of mine was attacked on Samui a while ago. Only because she had some connections did she get any justice at all and certainly not from the police.

On Samui, it's WHO you know. If you don't know anyone, forget about justice. In fact, expect to pay.

When I had something stolen from the place were I was staying, I went to make a report. Mainly for insurance purposes. The 'investigator' tried to convince me that I had 'lost' it, so that he didn't have to make a report.
I refused to go along with his game and insisted that I wanted a police report.

So off we went to Chaweng to take photos of the scene. He wanted me to sit in the back of pick up, like a common criminal. That wasn't going to happen.
A contact of mine confided in me that the 'high ranking' policeman wanted to 'do something to me'.
Later on, when he found out about 'my credentials' things changed for the better.
It seemed as if the whole of the Samui police force was mobilised that day, with a couple of them supplying me with their mobile telephone number.

It was not so long ago that the UK police changed the way they views crimes like rape and domestic violence.
So how far do you think a girl, foreign or otherwise, would get reporting a rape in Thailand?

That's not to reflect badly on Thailand itself. One just has to realise that tourism is booming in Thailand, bringing 'civilised' Westerners alongside practices which they may consider outdated.

For example, I'm sure you may remember, not too long ago, defences against rape in the UK including; "She asked for it", She was wearing a low cut top, short skirt etc" Basically if a girl was wearing sexually provocative clothing, they were seen to have "led the man on".

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

So, thank God that this sort of thing is finally getting some publicity.

Maybe you have a business out there and are trying to protect your investment, but that doesn't mean that you should turn a blind eye as to what is right and wrong.

There is a LOT that goes on out there that goes unreported and you'd be niave to think otherwise.

A well done, factual, astute and excellent post, Jiu-Jitsu

[Wiggy]

Tourism does not drop by 30% overnight because of one (albeit sad and tragic) incident. Otherwise nobody would go anywhere. The government has slowly been destroying tourism for a year or two now with its "crackdowns". Somebody has added up the arrival numbers, had a shock, and looked for something other than the government to blame.

[Viper]

I lived in Koh Samui for over 1 year. I had a lovely Thai style wooden house in a nice quiet location outside Lamai. After 1 year things just started to get to me, such as the filth, the heavy traffic on the roads, the same idiots you see and have to deal with every day, the ever increasing prices of food etc etc etc etc......
I would like to see like someone else mensioned earlyer a 90-100% fall in tourists, only then will Thai's start to appreciate farang more and learn to respect.

[Uma~~]

Khun Jean, on 2006-01-30 00:36:06, said:

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.
When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

I agree completely.

Yes businesses will suffer but the more they do the more effort they will put into sorting out the islands problems. It is so dangerous here, I was talking to an ex policewoman last night who has lived here a while and she told me some of the horrific things that go on but in my opinion the roads and infastructure alone are reason enough to start from scratch and give the island a better image.

[dezeure]

Khun Jean, on 2006-01-29 17:36:06, said:

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.
When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

I second that... Maybe Thai Rak Thai will then realise that wanting to be extreme right and needing money from foreigners as a major income does not go together... Maybe toxin should change his "come, see, pay, and go" motto... the two fisherman probably voted for him too...

But one thing I must say, even though we all complain about it...: I still prefer living in Thailand than anywhere else, even though its not going in the right direction and becoming overruled.

[Polly]

[quote name='charlesfrith' date='2006-01-31 10:35:26' post='628312']
I'm skipping some reality here on the narrative. The following sentence says......

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

Well, sex is a very complex subject and I want to make it clear that I adore this country and particularly the women, but I only have a couple of Thai male friends after many years of living here. It's so tough to make genuine friendships, although they are valuable if achieved. I challenge most occidentals to be honest about how many male Thai friends they have and if none why? It's because in the main they are not very warm. That said Thai guys who are cool do keep themselves to themselves.

However for whatever reason(s) this is also the country where I sometimes wonder what short circuit is wired in the cortex for the guys who manage or work on the periphery of the prostitution trade. OK it's a 'money' short circuit but the evidence is on the streets. Thai men are largely unbothered by any exposure to intrusive intimacy, nudity, sexual acts and unrestrained commercialisation of their sisters bodies to foreign men. Money and the culture of using women for recreational purposes in their own environment might be responsible for the absence of deep seated hostility. To make matters worse Thai women who work in the trade loathe them for reasons I don't think it would be appropriate for foreigners to discuss.

By coincidence I clarified this last night when I asked a very good Thai female friend why 30-40% of taxi drivers seem impossible to win over no matter how courteous or patient one is. It had never occured to me that an Occidental with a good command of Thai and knowledge of the routes has immediately just dropped some 50% in value as a gullible fare. Those are her words not mine. I was so ready for jealousy and resentment to be the reason.

So I have to say the obvious. This country is crawling with what I view as the loosest of feet and the freest of fancy women, possibly in the world. It's also largely through choice not circumstance. It's a lifestyle decision one that should be discussed in a more mature context, but again, it's sex and the irrational descends on the subject.

But to suggest that Caucasian women 'set a bad example' is an extraordinarily mono directional view of the world. I can see how the reasoning starts off but c'mon... A grip is needed.

I guess it's a tangential topic to the original post, but it's one I'm itching to find intelligent views on and maybe even learn a few things.

c.



[

I think she did not mean that shethought that the girls behaviour is a bad example, but rather the Thais would think it.

Many, many Thais are completely hypocritical about this part of their culture and turn a blind eye to it.

It has also been suggested that Caucasian women are easy because they give it away.

[Khun Jean]

And what is it with this title of this topic.
Afraid people will find this topic when they use a search engine with the words "koh samui" or "Koh Pha-ngan" in it.

I suggest to change it to:
"Britons Avoid tropical touristic island "Koh Samui" After Killings and Rapes, 30 per cent drop in the number of British tourists"

How many people have heard about "Surat Thani".

This information hiding behind a wrong topic title is also something to worry about.

[Annemerel]

taxexile, on 2006-01-30 09:56:44, said:

Quote

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.
When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

agreed.

it needs a complete overhaul.

i know two large family groups from the uk , they visited samui early january for two weeks , stayed at a large resort hotel , they said they would never go back. the hotel experience and the beach were wonderful , but once they stepped outside of the hotel the enjoyment ended.

the public transport system
the taxi drivers
the dump that is called chaweng.
the bigger dump that is called lamai
the scruffiness and filth
the poor service
the surliness and unfriendliness of the thais in the street markets and the shoddy tat they try to sell.
the total lack of any sense of aesthetics about development.
the car hire company that tried to charge them for the repair to the car when it failed to start.
the dangerous driving and road system
the padding of bills on three occasions restaurants , and the problems in correcting the restaurants mistakes.

these people like to spend and enjoy , but check all bills and will not tolerate sleazy rip offs.

that's 12 high end tourists who wont return , and you can bet that they will tell many many others about their thai samui experience.

its not only the crime that will make people wary of visiting.

[Malice in Wonderland]

Of course business is down compared to last year;we haven't got a giant influx of Tsunami-affected tourists that we had last year!!!!! Business appears to be exactly on par with the same time two years ago....

P.S. Any chance we can have posts from residents in samui a different colour ?? That way I wouldn't have to sift through all the c**p from people who obviously don't know what they're talking about......

[womble]

Well what can I say, Samui certainly deserves to suffer for the complete lack of thought of infrastructure and the attitude of some of the locals.

however, All flights to the Island are extremely booked up and accomodation is also very full. I have discussed and shown this thread to friends on the island and no-one believes the figure. Most people are reporting record earnings from their businesses and there certainly seems to be no lcack of Brits about.

Could it be that someone has taken the initiative and made this report in the hope that the powers that be sort out these problems before tourists really do stop coming???

Also i'm surprised no-one else has thought of this but... Brits make up the highest percentage of visitors to the Island. don't forget this event happened one month ago. If 30% of the highest proportion of nationality visitor cancelled then there would be seats on planes and many rooms vacant. This is not the case, and it certainly isn't because other nationalities have taken there place. If so that would mean if the murder hadn't happened then there would be a huge rise in visitor numbers, so high infact that it would make last years influx of tourists after the tsunami look small.

Think about the timescale and the figures, then decide for yourselves how acurate this report is.

[sbk]

Quote

Well what can I say, Samui certainly deserves to suffer for the complete lack of thought of infrastructure

Infrastructure decision making is made by the Provincial Government, not the local government and allocation of funds is made based on the number of registered residents. A huge percentage of the Thai people living on Koh Samui are unregistered, preferring to stay registered in their home provinces. Thus they are using infrastructure beyond its registered capacity.

If you would like to blame someone for the lack of infrastructure spending you could start with the Provinciall government that refuses to disburse money based on a real census count of ALL people living on Koh Samui (thais and foreigners) and instead bases it on an outdated list of people registered in the Tabien Bahn.

The true fact of the matter is that local Samui government would like to become its own province along with Phangan and Tao thus using their own tax money on their own infrastructure instead of seeing their tax money head to the mainland to build magnificent roads to nowhere. But, this is just a pipedream as long as non-local Thais refuse to register on the Tabien Bahn.

[womble]

sbk, on 2006-02-01 15:50:12, said:

Quote

Well what can I say, Samui certainly deserves to suffer for the complete lack of thought of infrastructure

Infrastructure decision making is made by the Provincial Government, not the local government and allocation of funds is made based on the number of registered residents. A huge percentage of the Thai people living on Koh Samui are unregistered, preferring to stay registered in their home provinces. Thus they are using infrastructure beyond its registered capacity.

If you would like to blame someone for the lack of infrastructure spending you could start with the Provinciall government that refuses to disburse money based on a real census count of ALL people living on Koh Samui (thais and foreigners) and instead bases it on an outdated list of people registered in the Tabien Bahn.

The true fact of the matter is that local Samui government would like to become its own province along with Phangan and Tao thus using their own tax money on their own infrastructure instead of seeing their tax money head to the mainland to build magnificent roads to nowhere. But, this is just a pipedream as long as non-local Thais refuse to register on the Tabien Bahn.

Well.........

You are right in what you say, not enough money is given to the island, and the lack of registration is ofcourse a large factor in this, however..............

Funds have actually been given for countless projects which are eigher never finished or constructed to such a low standard they are useless.

and why is this?

Yup good old fasioned corruption!

And whilst creating a Samui province would channel larger amounts of much needed funds I just wonder how much will go into projects instead of certain peoples pockets.

[womble]

What you mention is but a small part of a very complex problem, it goes much deeper than the simple registration of migrant workers. This is the story peddled by back slapping local press such as Community magazine and local civil servants.

If every migrant worker living on Samui registered tomorow I bet you wouldn't really see much change in in a year or two by the time the supposed funds have trickled down. If that was the case then the government could have a serious crackdown on all those that havn't registered as it is in fact law to do so. They havn't bothered because they know that isn't the real root of the problem.

Edited by womble, 2006-02-01 18:22:13.

[raybkk]

taxexile, on 2006-01-30 09:56:44, said:

Quote

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.
When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

agreed.

it needs a complete overhaul.

i know two large family groups from the uk , they visited samui early january for two weeks , stayed at a large resort hotel , they said they would never go back. the hotel experience and the beach were wonderful , but once they stepped outside of the hotel the enjoyment ended.

the public transport system
the taxi drivers
the dump that is called chaweng.
the bigger dump that is called lamai
the scruffiness and filth
the poor service
the surliness and unfriendliness of the thais in the street markets and the shoddy tat they try to sell.
the total lack of any sense of aesthetics about development.
the car hire company that tried to charge them for the repair to the car when it failed to start.
the dangerous driving and road system
the padding of bills on three occasions restaurants , and the problems in correcting the restaurants mistakes.

these people like to spend and enjoy , but check all bills and will not tolerate sleazy rip offs.

that's 12 high end tourists who wont return , and you can bet that they will tell many many others about their thai samui experience.

its not only the crime that will make people wary of visiting.

I totally agree with you there. My mom came to Bangkok for her yearly holiday and since she hasn’t been to Samui for 8 years so she decided to go over and have a look as she remembered the beauty from 8 years ago. Although I told her that things had changed and it isn’t like it was anymore she still went and booked a flight.
She stayed at the Hotel Group I work for and she really enjoyed her stay there. However after having visited the Chaweng Beach Rd., she was shocked to find what happened. She called it a circus, however not a temporary one but the Blackpool of Thailand. (she is Dutch).

[sriracha john]

george, on 2006-01-29 23:17:47, said:

SURAT THANI: -- The brutal rape and murder of 21-year-old Welsh student Katherine Horton on Koh Samui has caused a 30 per cent drop in the number of British tourists visiting Surat Thani province this year, according to the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

womble, on 2006-02-01 15:02:07, said:

Think about the timescale and the figures, then decide for yourselves how acurate this report is.

Oh my Gosh!! How can you impugn the rock-solid and highly respected nature of the TAT?? Don’t they always provide the most honest and truthful and accurate and reliable dissemination of travel figures??
They would never falsely pad tourism numbers nor under-report them. They are always above board and their statistics are beyond reproach…. I’m saddened and dismayed they could be so easily sullied.

[Johpa]

OK, Britons begin to avoid Samui, but there are still plenty of Yanks, German, Aussies, and others to fill this minor void of people who enjoy international tourist ghettos where there is a beach, some sun and warm temps and ample opportunity to drink, carouse, and copulate.

And Pattaya becomes annexed by Bangkok and slowly becomes more business oriented although I have still never visited the planet's largest seaside brothel. Phuket becomes the new Pattaya, although for some unknown reason avoids the worst excesses. Samui morphs into what Pattaya was, and still is a bit, with a similar degree of filth and corrruption. Koh Phanga changes into what Samui was 15 years ago, a getaway from the unadventurous backpacker with Koh Tao not far behind.

But Samui always seems to be the worst case of Paradise Lost.

[damian5000]

Wanted to quote some statistics from the Las Vegas Weekly. In 2005 there were 180 homicides investigated in all of Las Vegas, Nevada. That's an average of 1 every other day. And, only 63% of the total Las Vegas homicides had an arrest warrant issued. I'm not sure how these numbers compare to the statistics of cities in Thailand, but those numbers just blew me away. Here in Vegas you can kill somebody and have an almost 40% chance of never even having a warrant put out, let alone be arrested and convicted.

- Damian

Edited by damian5000, 2006-02-02 05:12:41.

[sbk]

womble, on 2006-02-01 18:21:08, said:

What you mention is but a small part of a very complex problem, it goes much deeper than the simple registration of migrant workers. This is the story peddled by back slapping local press such as Community magazine and local civil servants.

If every migrant worker living on Samui registered tomorow I bet you wouldn't really see much change in in a year or two by the time the supposed funds have trickled down. If that was the case then the government could have a serious crackdown on all those that havn't registered as it is in fact law to do so. They havn't bothered because they know that isn't the real root of the problem.

Yes, but to blame the local government for lack of funding for the infrastructure is patently absurd. I have lived on Phangan for 17 years and have watched our taxes get siphoned off to the mainland. There are some really great roads to the middle of nowhere serving god knows how many people in Surat Thani when Koh Phangan still does not have a sewage system, adequate water supplies, decent garbage collection, adequate power supply or up to date phone lines.

[Pepe']

Had a wonderful Christmas and New Year Holiday on Samui this year in all departments!!!

Found outstading Italian food at Via Via in Chaweng.

Got talking with the owner about the old days being raised in an Italian family.

Fresh pasta and thre Sambucas on the house after dinner.

Can't wait to go back...

[Jiu-Jitsu]

[quote name='charlesfrith' date='2006-01-31 11:35:26' post='628312']
I'm skipping some reality here on the narrative. The following sentence says......

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

Well, sex is a very complex subject and I want to make it clear that I adore this country and particularly the women, but I only have a couple of Thai male friends after many years of living here. It's so tough to make genuine friendships, although they are valuable if achieved. I challenge most occidentals to be honest about how many male Thai friends they have and if none why? It's because in the main they are not very warm. That said Thai guys who are cool do keep themselves to themselves.

However for whatever reason(s) this is also the country where I sometimes wonder what short circuit is wired in the cortex for the guys who manage or work on the periphery of the prostitution trade. OK it's a 'money' short circuit but the evidence is on the streets. Thai men are largely unbothered by any exposure to intrusive intimacy, nudity, sexual acts and unrestrained commercialisation of their sisters bodies to foreign men. Money and the culture of using women for recreational purposes in their own environment might be responsible for the absence of deep seated hostility. To make matters worse Thai women who work in the trade loathe them for reasons I don't think it would be appropriate for foreigners to discuss.

By coincidence I clarified this last night when I asked a very good Thai female friend why 30-40% of taxi drivers seem impossible to win over no matter how courteous or patient one is. It had never occured to me that an Occidental with a good command of Thai and knowledge of the routes has immediately just dropped some 50% in value as a gullible fare. Those are her words not mine. I was so ready for jealousy and resentment to be the reason.

So I have to say the obvious. This country is crawling with what I view as the loosest of feet and the freest of fancy women, possibly in the world. It's also largely through choice not circumstance. It's a lifestyle decision one that should be discussed in a more mature context, but again, it's sex and the irrational descends on the subject.

But to suggest that Caucasian women 'set a bad example' is an extraordinarily mono directional view of the world. I can see how the reasoning starts off but c'mon... A grip is needed.

I guess it's a tangential topic to the original post, but it's one I'm itching to find intelligent views on and maybe even learn a few things.

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You appear to have misunderstood my meaning. That is probably due to my style of writing.
I wasn't implying that the female tourist's behaviour was improper.
The implication is that a certain type of male may see her as fair game. For instance, sitting and chatting and having a drink with a Thai male may be viewed as an invitation...

I'm not trying to insult anyone. We choose to travel to Thailand, so we should inform overselves and others of what to expect.
That's why we are here.

[Malice in Wonderland]

[quote name='sbk' date='2006-02-02 00:47:04' post='630309']


Yes, but to blame the local government for lack of funding for the infrastructure is patently absurd.

Sorry but I must disagree - I recently stumbled on a copy of the "Community Magazine" from circa mid 2003; within it there was an article about a meeting held by the local government acknowledging that Samui's biggest problem for funding was the non-registration of migrant workers.The article goes on to state that officials would go door to door seeking formal registration so that governmental and financial autonomy could be sought from Surrathani Province.

What has happened since 2003 ??? Have the men with clipboards got lost round the ring road????

Surrathani Province are rubbing their hands all the way to the bank every year Samui fails to be able to tell them how many people actually live here....

Nobody elses fault except their own IMHO

[sriracha john]

Malice in Wonderland, on 2006-02-02 09:46:45, said:

What has happened since 2003 ??? Have the men with clipboards got lost round the ring road????

They were too busy during 2003-2004 updating identification information for 2,500-plus
un-investigated, non-judicial execution murders during the
"Plant-YaBa-On-Anyone-You-Want- Killed" governmental program.

The on-topic question to ask is... As a precedence to it's current crimes, how many of those 2,500+ murders occured within the confines of Surat Thani Province?