610 replies to this topic
#376
tod-daniels
Posted 2009-11-07 12:21:30
The Walen Method is just the Callan Method copied/translated into thai (so close in fact that it follows it almost page by page). In translating it into thai I agree some of the sentence constructs seem artifical. Also the Callan Method is NOT thematic in its method of teaching or in any of its lessons (i.e.: there are no scenarios which are 'location' or 'task' specific to act out or role play). That is why there is no interactive dialog driven conversational thai in the book. It is simply not that type of book or method.
I just reviewed the first 110 vocab words in Book 1 (the first 5 lessons/chapters), against the spread sheet pinned on T/V which lists the top 3000 words in thai. In macs defense, all of his words (other than personal names) made it on the list, although some were further down the list than others. So his method is teaching commonly used and necessary words to speak thai. What it is not teaching is how to put the learned vocabulary together to form other sentence constructs. I concur with the poster “Parvis” in that the method doesn't concentrate on conversational thai at all (but I covered that in the opening paragraph).
IMHO, the Walen Method does have value; IF you can read even a little thai before you attend. It will give you a solid base of recognizable thai vocabulary words which can help a person learn to read better.
Reading thai (or any language for that matter) is about ONE thing and ONE thing only. The ability to recognize groups of letters as words, and understand the meaning of those words when strung together in a sentence. Reading is NOT recognizing the individual letters; because NO ONE reads anything letter by letter. It is also NOT about correct pronunciation, because you read silently to yourself.
If when silently reading, you mispronounce in your mind; ขาว, or ข่าว or ข้าว or เขา, or even เข้า, but know the different meanings of somewhat similar sounding yet differently spelled words, you're fine. (Oh BTW; I think those words were; white, news, rice, 3rd person pronoun and enter  ).
I know students who can 'read' almost any sentence in the Walen Books, some even can tell the specific tone rule for every word they read (admirable, because I certainly can't do that); yet they cannot "back translate" the meaning of what they just read into english or their native language (if it's not english). Sadly, at least to me, that type of 'reading' carries very little "bang for the baht" in the real world. If you can’t read something in thai and then tell me in english what you just read, your comprehension is far below your ability to ‘read’.
I also think the spacing of words in both Walen Books (1 & 2), does a disservice to the students. I can understand Book 1 being spaced out, as it is the introduction to the method. Doing it with both books however lets the students slide on learning how to delineate where one word ends and another begins in "real" written thai. More students than I care to count can't read the simplest of signage out in front of the Time's Square Building; "bus stop", "short cut", "Robinson's Department Store", "parking lot full" or even "exit/enter"; simply because the words aren't spaced out.
Believe me; I have NO axe to grind with macwalen. Once again I acknowledge his savvy business/marketing skills. His school provides both an avenue for people wishing to stay in thailand (who do not meet the requirements of other visa types) as well as helping those who wish to learn this language too. Few of us indeed can say we provide anything close to that type of service for foreigners wishing to stay and learn the language.
After all we are in the glorious "Land 'O Thais". .. Is it too much to ask that we converse with the indigenous people in their language (at least a little bit)? 
Posted 2009-11-08 15:50:16
"[quote name='tod-daniels' date='2009-11-07 12:21:30' post='3124077']
The Walen Method is just the Callan Method copied/translated into thai (so close in fact that it follows it almost page by page). In translating it into thai I agree some of the sentence constructs seem artifical. Also the Callan Method is NOT thematic in its method of teaching or in any of its lessons (i.e.: there are no scenarios which are 'location' or 'task' specific to act out or role play). That is why there is no interactive dialog driven conversational thai in the book. It is simply not that type of book or method."
Yes indeed, the "Walen method of teaching Thai" appears to be a direct translation of a book [u]"teaching English in the English language".[/u] The Walen book #1 has many grammatical terms in Thai - which are totally unnecessary to speak the language. Yet - not anywhere in the book is it mentioned that in English an adjective is used BEFORE a noun. In Thai an adjective comes AFTER the noun. This fact is certainly one of those "high value facts" are worth remembering.
Walens book appears an attempt to [u]"teach Thai with English as base".[/u] This requires a different approach totally ignored in the process of developing this teaching material.
I was actually not a beginning student when I started. My own evaluation of my progress at this point:
1) Ability to speak Thai - no progress
2) Ability to read Thai - some progress
3) Vocabulary - some progress
My dissatisfaction has absolutely nothing to do with my teacher . My teacher is very capable, very professional and probably the best teacher at Walen.
My claim still remains - this book was put together thoughtlessly by someone not really interested in teaching anyone the Thai Language. Those problems I see undaubtedly were stated before - without results. For instance - the fact that "compound sentences" SHOULD NEVER be used in conveying any concept is just not a principle known to the developer of this book.
If you charge premium prices you are expected to supply premium quality. According to your 1st paragraph this book was not even proofread by anyone other than the Author.
Yes, Walen appear to do an admirable job af attracting people in need of a Visa. Their advertising speaks for itself. According to my observation Walen has very few students actually attending Classes to learn Thai. If correct this is fraudulent.
Posted 2009-11-08 21:26:58
Khun Parvis,
You said:
"For instance - the fact that "compound sentences" SHOULD NEVER be used in conveying any concept is just not a principle known to the developer of this book."
Please help explain this rule for us. I am not taking issue with this important principle, but an explanation would help:
1. What is a "compound sentence" in Thai?
2. Please provide an example of a "compound sentence".
3. Are all compound sentences verboten in Thai? How about English?
Thank you.
Posted 2009-11-08 22:28:50
What is a "compound sentence"?
Well - a "compound sentence (or complex sentence)" is not a "simple sentence". Compound sentences are not "verboten" in any language. But certainly when teaching a language, especially in the beginning stage, you should try to stay with "simple sentences". Namely you should aim to stay within a "simple sentence structure" the brain can comprehend and retain (yet - still "challenge").
You may be aware that the "short-term memory of the brain (hippocampus)" has a limited ability to retain information until it is processed and retained in the more "longterm memory" part of the brain. To be effective in teaching any language (not only languages) - you should make use of this fact. There are, ofcourse, methods to increase the amount of information the hippocampus can retain - also known as "anchoring - etc. etc. etc." which a "superb teacher" just automatically uses. But this gets into a discussion more complex in nature - beyond this short comment.
I may have somewhat "overstated - never using compound sentences" - because there certainly is a proper use for them. The use of compound and complex sentence structures make "writings etc" more interesting by involving the reader more in the comprehension of what is being said. For instance - in a novel you just cannot put down until you finished it. But it is a question where to apply it. The correct application is certainly not in lengthy, complex sentences in a beginning language course - where just the "bulk" of the info supplied overwhelms the mind.
"Simple - Compound - Complex sentence structures" are not terms I invented - therefore you should be able to read much more on this subject by "googling" it. They may not explain the "psychological reasons" for using one or the other - but you may get a better understanding of the terms.
Posted 2009-11-09 09:14:53
I'm sure Parvis has a valid point, but I think the issue of sentence structure is a red-herring. It's a common misconception that simple sentences are 'simple'.
Simple sentence:
Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pale of water and to have a bit of fun.
Compound sentence:
I like fruit, but you like vegetables.
Complex sentence:
I got wet because it rained.
It seems to me that the simple sentence in these examples has a greater 'cognitive load' than either the compound or complex sentence. The point of compound and complex sentences is to show relationships between ideas that cannot be as clearly expressed in a series of simple sentences. In that respect, they make understanding easier - indeed, that is the point of grammatical structures as a whole.
I haven't seen Walen's book, but whatever errors it may or may not contain, I wouldn't knock it for using a variety of sentence structures, though of course much depends on how the material is presented and taught.
Posted 2009-11-09 09:26:11
Khun Parvis,
What other languages do you speak? For some learning to speak is simply very difficult. No matter what method you use. If you studied for 60 hours you should already be able to have at least a simple conversation using a dictionary for the words you do not know or the ones you forgot.
I hear your insults and will attribute it to your frustration probably caused by your age, we do not deserve this insult, many people worked on the book for a long time, but of course you know much better, you are yet another language expert on the block. "My claim still remains - this book was put together thoughtlessly by someone not really interested in teaching anyone the Thai Language".
If you knew how much time was spent developing the method and modifying it you would perhaps have a different opinion.
Easy to criticize hard to actually do something.
The method is very good in the opinion of great many. We offer one week free classes for those who want to try and decide, if they like that is great if not that is fine too.
Also just for the record, you are in your mid 70's, how old exactly? 75? ( this information is not from the student's records, Parvis mentioned in his first post that he immigrated to Australia 50 years ago, I assumed he could have been about 25 then or perhaps older) It is harder to learn languages at that age but you should not be insulting others over your own limitations, we are here to help you not to fight with you. 20 years might make a difference. I am not sure if that is the reason, but if it is, it makes your harsh criticism easier to take.
At least the teacher is great, good to hear. We are doing our best to select teachers who make learning easy and enjoyable.
Walen School - always here to help
www.thaiwalen.com
For priority service please register
www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng
Edited by macwalen, 2011-02-28 21:37:26.
Posted 2009-11-09 10:32:23
Dear Walen
Ahh Interesting - Interesting. Now your knocking my age. But you are off - significantly. Do "older people" have more difficulty in learning? Probably not - but your aim is just to insult me - anyhow - so there is no use to debate your comment.
The problems I have pointed out have been pointed out before.
I accept not all my points are "totally valid". For instance my point about the "sentence structure".
Your advertising "Fast Effective and Interactive" - yet everyone I have heard about since I started at Walen claims they can read some - but not speak. Do I speak Thai so far? Yes, but I did not learn it at Walen - I have lived in Thailand for 3 years already. What I lack is "structure" - I had hoped to gain at Walen.
I mentioned in the beginning that I am not a "Beginner" - but you do not appear to have a testing method to determine exactly where I should be placed. The only question was "Do you need a Visa?". I am not a beginner therefore I could evaluate your teaching materials better - since I did not "struggle" with the usual "challenges".
According to my observation you have very few actual students studying Thai. Your business appears to be generating Visas (if so - fraudulently) - not teaching Thai.
My impression so far - you have a "theoretical teaching system that has merit". The biggest problem? The way it is put together and in particular - You - with your refusal to accept that in many areas the criticism is valid.
Posted 2009-11-09 10:57:45
 macwalen, on 2009-11-09 09:26:11, said:
Khun Parvis,
I hear your insults and will attribute it to your frustration probably caused by your age
....
Easy to criticize hard to actually do something.
....
Also just for the record, you are in your mid 70's, how old exactly? 75? ( this information is not from the student's records, Parvis mentioned in his first post that he immigrated to Australia 50 years ago, I assumed he could have been about 25 then or perhaps older) It is harder to learn languages at that age but you should not be insulting others over your own limitations, we are here to help you not to fight with you. 20 years might make a difference. I am not sure if that is the reason, but if it is, it makes your harsh criticism easier to take.
....
www.thaiwalen.com
Mr. Walen, although you claim to be the manager/owner the biggest Thai language school in the world, very few of your students care to write on this message board. The people that do write something are rather negative, after which they systematically get insulted by you.
You are just being rude. There are some people on this message board that are much older than you and I and that know probably much more Thai than both of us.
Edited by kriswillems, 2009-11-09 11:00:58.
Posted 2009-11-09 12:38:59
Kris, sorry, but you write things that are not correct. Presenting our side of the story is not being insulting, you were always a negative fellow towards our school. Like you have a complex or something, just get off our case, what is the point of you being involved in this particular exchange? Everyone knows that if you say something about Walen it will be negative.
Also you are missing the point. Did I say anything about older people not knowing more about Thai than you and I? Not related to the topic at hand at all.
And Parvis, for you, you are also not consistent in what you write, you say I insult you? Common sir, you did insult me, I just stated that you were old and that might be a reason for some of your complaints. If that is not the case than that is ok and I just accept that you are rude without knowing it, I did not even say it was the case with you being old, but it might.
You are treated well, by my staff and my teachers. The method is what it is, perfect for some not so perfect for others, your stories about compound sentences this and compound sentences that, as pointed by other contributors, were not quite correct.
Regarding our students not contributing, perhaps they are afraid of you guys, not everyone is as witted as some of the forum participants but I am here so if you have a valid point bring it on.
Kind regards,
Walen School - let's be fair
www.thaiwalen.com
For priority service please register
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Edited by macwalen, 2011-02-28 21:38:21.
Posted 2009-11-10 11:21:44
Can I make the suggestion that if you are searching for a good language course then check out two or three schools and chose the one that suits you best? Ask for a trial lesson and make a point of talking to students in the break time to see what they really think about the school. I am going to suggest three you could visit: TLS, Language Express and MyThai.
Posted 2009-11-11 12:36:36
Noob here! Have not had a chance to read all 16 pages of this thread but will search through it a bit more! Are there other schools who offer help with a ed visa? I would like to get a visa, but my main concern is getting some quality instruction in the Thai language!
Is it very difficult to obtain an ED visa on one's own while in their home country? Does a school need to be selected before hand and some paperwork submitted? I searched a bit looking for a thread that details this but I must be using the wrong terms as I did not find anything and I am sure it has been gone over! Thanks!
Posted 2009-11-11 13:09:06
Hey Gas,
Since others have done so before me, I am going to answer your question and include a plug for my school at the same time.
My advice is that anyone serious about learning a language should check out a couple of schools, to find one that’s right for them. Naturally I hope you include ours in your list when you do -it’s called Language Express
The Thai department has it’s own excellent textbook (with translations in the back) this is supplemented by a commercially available textbook, Poomsecker ‘s Thai for Beginners.
The teachers at Language Express are first rate, qualified and given on -going training to keep them up to the mark. They’re serious about teaching but energetic, friendly and very approachable. As with many language schools, you can take a trial lesson before you buy, and I also recommend you talk to other students in the break (and without ‘helpful’ staff hovering around) to see what they really think.
One final point worth mentioning is that it’s easy to get to. Language Express is located 5 meters from Exit 2 at Ploejnjit Station. It's on the ground floor, easy to spot and very nicely appointed.
I am being upfront about declaring my involvement in a school I have a vested interest in, but think the advice is sound. That is, check out a few schools, look through their textbooks, take a trial lesson and talk to students to see if they’re happy or not. You should also ask if the school has a plan for putting you in an existing class, or are they just going to drop you in at week 14 and let you work it out on your own.
Hope this helps.
Posted 2009-11-11 18:00:28
Anyone recommend a good school for tourist style conversational Thai for the beginner?
Posted 2009-11-11 22:10:56
SoftWater, on 2009-11-11 21:23:52, said: ST, I think he said in one post that he was taking private lessons. It may have been moderated, though.
SW,
Thanks.
ST.
Posted 2009-11-12 22:17:26
Scottish Thailander – per your request
My Thai lessons (30) at Walen were all "private lessons" – one-on-one - the teacher and I. The price for 30 lessons 2250 baht = 750 baht/hour (same as Berlitz - same building). I would describe my teacher at Walen as very professional and experienced – she just naturally used "anchors" for me to be able to remember difficult material. This was on her initiative – not in the book. My teacher remained the same from Lesson 1 through Lesson 30.
I do not recommend private lessons unless you have specific reasons. My reasons for private lessons were:
1) I wanted to learn the language quickly.
2) I was already able to speak – read – write "some" Thai (Walen had no tests to "place" me based on my previous "self taught" knowledge).
3) I personally find "Group lessons" boring and tedious since I tend to be a fast learner – despite my age (mid 60th) – or maybe because of it.
The teacher worked with the same materials as in Group lessons and in theory is instructed not to deviate. In practice this depends very much on quality of your teacher, your personal motivation and your ability to comprehend – an often difficult material. (For instance - I completed the 123 pages of Book 1 in 24 lessons/ hours – therefore the "structured segment of the course" was completed with 6 hours to spare).
I struggled with – and continue to struggle with:
a) Sentence structure
 Tones/pronunciation
c) Reading/Comprehension
While I have always objected to using "phonetics" in learning Thai – I now feel the use of phonetics MAY BE appropriate for beginners desiring to be able to speak conversational Thai quickly. "Some" schools (including Berlitz) use phonetics AND Thai script next to each other. The "phonetics" can be used as "crutch" until you are able to read with Thai script only. This assumes, of course, you will learn Thai script "collaterally" – in some way. Walens "incredible method (copied from Callan method to teach English)" essentially consists of "repetition – repetition – repetition" – which I agree with - in principle.
I will continue my Thai language studies – shortly - as soon as I find an acceptable (to me) Thai language school. For me – this is not a question of price – but a question of quality, location and time available.
Should you have suggestions of Schools, Methods and Criticism etc. etc. etc. – Please do not hesitate and please advice.
PCP
Posted 2009-11-12 22:53:00
Parvis, on 2009-11-12 22:17:26, said: . . . . I will continue my Thai language studies – shortly - as soon as I find an acceptable (to me) Thai language school. For me – this is not a question of price – but a question of quality, location and time available.
Should you have suggestions of Schools, Methods and Criticism etc. etc. etc. – Please do not hesitate and please advice.
PCP
Parvis,
Thank you for that.
It mirrors many other posts from people who believe that 'some' of the Walen teachers are good, helpful, well intentioned teachers, who are sandwiched between 1) a debatably efficient method with less than ideal supporting books and implementation, and 2) Walen's rules that (are supposed to) prevent them from specifically teaching tones, explaining structure, etc. when needed independently of the book as it is contrary to the Walen method.
You asked for suggestions, and I am sure you will get some schools "suggesting" themselves but I will add my tuppenceworth for you to consider:-
As you are "already able to speak – read – write "some" Thai" I would suggest you check out AAA Thai Language School (Pasawes) as they are regularly recommended, and my experience there would support those others. They also have "tests to 'place' [you] based on [your] previous "self taught" knowledge, which you stated were unavailable at Walen. There are others, which you will find on here, but this is the only one I have attended so far that I would recommend to you in your circumstances (and I have attended/am attending others).
ST.
#392
tod-daniels
Posted 2009-11-13 12:49:01
In researching the 20+ thai language schools that I have toured so far I've rarely met a more dedicated group of teachers than the staff at the Walen School.
I do agree with Scottish Thailander when he says;
Scottish Thailander, on 2009-11-12 22:53:00, said: the Walen teachers are good, helpful, well intentioned teachers, who are sandwiched between 1) a debatably efficient method with less than ideal supporting books and implementation, and 2) Walen's rules that (are supposed to) prevent them from specifically teaching tones, explaining structure, etc. when needed independently of the book as it is contrary to the Walen method.
I will say; it is my observation that during private lessons at Walen the 'method' is much more flexible (depending on the student's ability to lead the lessons to things they perceive as valuable, and the teacher's ability to teach in that style). The students I have spoken with who are currently taking or have taken private lessons there can and often do bring their own materials, different textbooks, outside learning resources, etc., to supplement their learning. Of course in a group setting the method is followed (enforced) much more rigorously, as one might expect. In my opinion the per hour price of private lessons is quite high compared to other thai language schools (akthough as pointed out the same as Berlitz). There seems to be no shortage of students enrolled in Walen's private lessons, so it must not be as price detrimental as I imagine. I have also seen a much higher rate of competency in spoken thai with the private students than I have with the group people, so again there must be good value.
If the AAA school S/T is referring to is the one on Chidlom Road on the 6th floor of the Vanessa Building behind Central Department store which is at this website;
http://www.aaathai.com/
I believe it is no better or worse than any other school using the "Union" based method of teaching thai. The Union based method is one of the oldest methods out there and is used by MANY schools. Often the text books are virtual copies of the original Union books, which are about 20 years old at least and quite out of date in terms of terminology. (Please ask the porter when the next train arrives at the station; is a sentence I have seen in many union based textbooks)
AAA also has the "60 hours/6500baht" type of programs. That's where you attend 3 hours a day for 20 days. Like all the schools using this format; miss a day, lose the hours, wash out, and lose it all. It is intensive, and the group lessons go at quite a quick pace. There is another thread about the benefit of 'pre-learning' at least Benjawan Becker's first book Beginning Thai before enrolling in a school like this to maximize "bang for your baht". In perusing their website the private lessons seem very competitively priced at only 400 baht per hour, and depending on their curriculum and your ability, they could be good value indeed.
In thinking back on it; I believe I toured that school a LONG time ago, but due to a bad experience at another Union based school, I gave it a pass.
Given your ability to read thai, I would recommend touring Paradigm Language School. They offer many levels of speaking, reading, writing. This is their site;
http://www.paradigm-language.com/
Good luck. ..
(Oh, BTW, I have NO affiliation with ANY thai language school, and offer my opinion only, your mileage may and quite likely will vary depending on how you learn languages)
Posted 2009-11-13 12:58:55
Scottish Thailander, on 2009-11-12 22:53:00, said: Parvis, on 2009-11-12 22:17:26, said: . . . . I will continue my Thai language studies – shortly - as soon as I find an acceptable (to me) Thai language school. For me – this is not a question of price – but a question of quality, location and time available.
Should you have suggestions of Schools, Methods and Criticism etc. etc. etc. – Please do not hesitate and please advice.
PCP
Parvis,
Thank you for that.
It mirrors many other posts from people who believe that 'some' of the Walen teachers are good, helpful, well intentioned teachers, who are sandwiched between 1) a debatably efficient method with less than ideal supporting books and implementation, and 2) Walen's rules that (are supposed to) prevent them from specifically teaching tones, explaining structure, etc. when needed independently of the book as it is contrary to the Walen method.
You asked for suggestions, and I am sure you will get some schools "suggesting" themselves but I will add my tuppenceworth for you to consider:-
As you are "already able to speak – read – write "some" Thai" I would suggest you check out AAA Thai Language School (Pasawes) as they are regularly recommended, and my experience there would support those others. They also have "tests to 'place' [you] based on [your] previous "self taught" knowledge, which you stated were unavailable at Walen. There are others, which you will find on here, but this is the only one I have attended so far that I would recommend to you in your circumstances (and I have attended/am attending others).
ST.
Scottish Thailander, it is not correct that just 'some' of the Walen teachers are good, all of them are good as we fire those who are not. The issue is that not every student likes every teacher and this is natural, one student thinks that a particular teacher is a superstar another student thinks that the same teacher is just a good teacher.
Walen- www.thaiwalen.com
For priority service please register
www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng
Edited by macwalen, 2011-02-28 21:39:15.
#394
tod-daniels
Posted 2009-11-13 15:38:12
macwalen, on 2009-11-13 12:58:55, said: it is not correct that just 'some' of the Walen teachers are good, all of them are good
On this particular subject, I must concur wholeheartedly with mac's assessment of his teaching staff. They are really a good group of teachers.
In fact, in all the time I have known his school, I've yet to meet a single teacher who wasn't both dedicated and sincere in their desire to teach thai to foreigners. I believe the turn-over rate for his thai language teaching staff is very low. I know of many teachers who've been with him several years.
The ones I have known; Washi, May, Ubon, Butter, Ploy, Puu, Jeab, Jeep, Nat & Busaba, were and still are great teachers. Even though some of the above teachers have since left the school (moving on to bigger and better things in their lives) they were still a quality bunch of people.
It is only natural that some students personalities won't "click' with some teachers. It is by no means something only mac's school experiences but does in fact exist in EVERY school out there.
I think the fact he periodically rotates teachers thru the classes is a benefit. It exposes students to many different teachers rather than only a single person, which they may become too comfortable with, and then be initially resistant to another teacher teaching their class.
While it is well known my posting penchants run more toward "mac-bashing" than normal; I cannot in all honesty or in good conscience find any fault with his teachers no matter how critically I review them.
Posted 2009-11-13 18:45:14
I agree with tod-daniels as well, that the teachers in Walen are passionate and dedicated, most of the time. However, by reading most of the posts here I feel a little inclined to believe that the teaching quality is better in the BKK branch than the Pattaya one. But I might be wrong.
However, Mr. Walen, what continues to puzzle me is the textbook, which costs 390 baht - can you explain why the high cost? Previously I asked in another post but it was not answered.
Posted 2009-11-13 20:27:11
I've only ever been to one Union school, AAA Pasawes at Chidlom, so I carn't compare their material with others, but I think Tod maybe be tarring them with the bad brush of other schools.
Like Parvis at Walen, I walked in to AAA being self-taught in reading, writing and basic speaking and listening skills. At AAA, they level-tested me there and then (it wasn't comprehensive and really was just a reading-out-loud test that took about 30 seconds) and placed me in the reading and writing course. Like Parvis, I see little point in group classes - for the sake of a 100 baht or so extra you can have the teacher all to yourself and go at your own pace - so I took one-on-one lessons at 400/baht per hour.
As for the material, reading level 3 was stuff that had clearly been used over many years, but I didn't find the vocab to be out-of-date, just the topics a bit boring - the usual 'thai culture, food, religion, history' stuff that tourists on a 2-week holiday might find fascinating but expats have usually had enough of after after 2 months of being here. Anyway, the level wasn't that challenging for where I was at, but I did learn some new vocab and most of all got good practice in speaking with and listening to the teacher for 3 hours a week and discussing the topics both as they related to Thailand and my home country. This often generated more interesting learning points than the text themselves, and indeed the teacher was very good at making the lesson interesting.
I also got a lot of writing practice and improved my spelling markedly. Some people knock this, but i wouldn't - the beauty of being able to spell well is you can pretty much second-guess how to look up a word in a thai dictionary that you hear but don't know the meaning of - you can guess how word are probably spelled fairl accurately from your knowledge of thai spelling rules. If you have an ear for tones, you can narrow down the possibilities even further. I've had a lot of success in learning new words this way.
Overall I would say the teacher was good and the material was good. After I finished this course, I went on to level 3.1. This is/was a wholly new level and the material is brand new. The course book is a series of 20 dialogues between various speakers - it's full of idioms, colloquialisms and grammar patterns you'd be hard-pressed to find elsewhere. The material really challenged my level and I learned a lot. I also had a different teacher for this course. I would rate both the teacher and the material as 'very good'. Bear in mind that I am a language teacher myself, and I am highly critical of poor teaching methodologies and poor material, so be sure that when I say the teacher and material were 'very good' I do not say this lightly.
After finishing 3.1 in 30 hours (20 texts done in 20 x 1.5 hours classes, two times a week), I felt what I really needed was consolidation. There was a lot of material in the book that I understood, but couldn't use myself. My intention at that time was to take a short break to self-study the material, reviewing the whole book till I felt happy with it, then go back in six to eight weeks time for the next course ('Reading Thai Newspapers').
Erhhh, that was 2 years ago....still haven't quite finished that self-study/consolidation period...
Posted 2009-11-14 00:07:57
smint, on 2009-11-13 18:45:14, said: I agree with tod-daniels as well, that the teachers in Walen are passionate and dedicated, most of the time. However, by reading most of the posts here I feel a little inclined to believe that the teaching quality is better in the BKK branch than the Pattaya one. But I might be wrong.
However, Mr. Walen, what continues to puzzle me is the textbook, which costs 390 baht - can you explain why the high cost? Previously I asked in another post but it was not answered.
The cost of the book is not the cost of the paper but of the work that went into creating it, it is not just a simple translation of the Callan Method as some think. Believe of not, it took 4 years to get to the stage of being able to use it in teaching. 390 Baht is cheap for this book. Hope this answers your question. Thanks for your support. The quality of teaching in Pattaya as far as I know is good if not very good. You can send me private message if you have some specific comments or you can post them in the public forum. Also happy to talk in person when I'm in Pattaya.
Walen School
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Edited by macwalen, 2011-02-28 21:41:40.
Posted 2009-11-14 01:04:04
macwalen, on 2009-11-13 12:58:55, said: Scottish Thailander, it is not correct that just 'some' of the Walen teachers are good, all of them are good as we fire those who are not.
Walen
Mac,
I am not going to get into a debate with you about this. If you have had to fire teachers then at some time you have had bad teachers employed and teaching. Therefore, my comment that "some" of the teachers are good still stands correct. The same is true of every school (almost without exception). At any one point in time there will be both good and not-so-good teachers.
I believe that the majority of teachers at Walen are, as tod-daniels said, "dedicated and sincere in their desire to teach thai to foreigners". However, I know that you have had at least one teacher who consistantly failed to correctly identify the tones of words when asked to do so. On odd occasions this is to expected, and accepted, as we all make mistakes. However, doing so consistantly when being paid to teach Thai is not acceptable to students serious about learning the Thai language. As far as I know, the guilty teacher has not yet been fired.
Having said that, I do not believe that the teacher should necessarily be fired, as you seem (in the quote above) to suggest is your solution to a problem such as this. I would hope that firing people is not your first and only solution. I would hope that additional teacher 'training' would be one of your first attempts to resolve problems with teaching quality. In fact, as not all your teachers are "certified B.Ed in teaching Thai Language" teachers (please correct me if all your teachers are at least "B.Ed in teaching Thai Language" certified) I would expect you to be providing ongoing teacher training. You may/may not be doing so, and I admit I do not know which applies. It would be nice to think that you do provide training, and that that training is not just "in-house" training, but recognised training that would lead to them being able to obtain (or advance thier) "formal" teacher certification in teaching Thai language to second language learners.
ST
Posted 2009-11-14 01:49:06
tod-daniels, on 2009-11-13 12:49:01, said: . . . .
If the AAA school S/T is referring to is the one on Chidlom Road on the 6th floor of the Vanessa Building behind Central Department store which is at this website;
http://www.aaathai.com/ . . . .
Yes, that is the one.
tod-daniels, on 2009-11-13 12:49:01, said: . . . . I believe it is no better or worse than any other school using the "Union" based method of teaching thai. The Union based method is one of the oldest methods out there and is used by MANY schools. Often the text books are virtual copies of the original Union books, which are about 20 years old at least and quite out of date in terms of terminology. (Please ask the porter when the next train arrives at the station; is a sentence I have seen in many union based textbooks). . . .
My understanding is that they do all use the same (or at least very similar) method, but that AAA has updated their textbooks more recently. Like SoftWater, I have no experience of the other schools (yet), but I do not recognise the "Please ask the porter" sentence, and again like SoftWater, I did not find AAA's textbook so dated that it was a problem.
tod-daniels, on 2009-11-13 12:49:01, said: AAA also has the "60 hours/6500baht" type of programs . . . . miss a day, lose the hours, wash out, and lose it all. It is intensive . . . . In perusing their website the private lessons seem very competitively priced at only 400 baht per hour, and depending on their curriculum and your ability, they could be good value indeed.
Tod, I agree the program is not suitable for "casual" learning and that is why I was specific in my reply to Parvis:
". . . I would recommend to you [Parvis] in your [Parvis'] circumstances. . . ."
As you will have seen, I have recommended/mentioned other schools in other threads, and/or (being too lazy to look back through this post at the moment) maybe even in this thread.
Tod, it was good to meet you in person today. Hope we get a chance to chat more in the future.
ST
Edited by Scottish Thailander, 2009-11-14 01:53:04.
Posted 2009-11-14 08:56:12
Scottish Thailander, on 2009-11-14 01:04:04, said: It would be nice to think that you do provide training, and that that training is not just "in-house" training, but recognised training that would lead to them being able to obtain (or advance thier) "formal" teacher certification in teaching Thai language to second language learners.
ST
If the private Thai language schools here are anything like the private English language schools here, they will not be interested in providing any career development. From the schools' point of view, this only empowers teachers to either ask for a pay rise or move on to a better paid job elsewhere. The idea that it might enhance a school's teaching and the reputation of the school is understood, but not thought to balance out the costs and risks (an erroneous and very short-term view, it seems to me).
Of course, if you are teaching a 'unique' method, giving 'further training' to teachers in your own method only serves to 'lock them' in to your particular school rather than develop their career potential.
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