610 replies to this topic
#476
tod-daniels
Posted 2010-03-06 10:55:29
As I said before I have found conversational thai classes pretty much hit or miss as far as ‘bang-4-the-baht’. ..
Some are nothing more than the thai teacher pontificating about all things thai with very little interaction from the students. It seems more an indoctrination and/or brainwashing than any type of meaningful conversation. 
Some revolve around short stories that are read in class first silently by the students, then aloud by the teacher, then aloud by the students as well; after that there is a discussion about the topic, the characters, what they were doing, etc. These can have good value if the stories are of interest.
Unfortunately I have found the majority of these short stories are about thai history and/or culture (something I have less than ZERO interest in), and/or buddhism (again something I have NO interest in). If a story doesn’t appeal to me I find it difficult to both understand and retain the information for any length of time. 
Another thing about conversational thai classes is; I have found it very important that the students are at the approximate same level in terms of speaking, reading, thai for the class to be effective. A wide disparity in ability not only puts untoward pressure on the people with less language skill, often making them reticent to speak out, and or interact in class, as well as holding back the people who have better thai language skills.
The most useful story book for conversational thai which I cam across was a copy someone had of a textbook from Chiang Mai University. It had stories about Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Edison, and a variety of people, places all over the world. Vocabulary was introduced before each story, and then there were a series of questions afterwards. Unfortunately I cannot locate that book anymore. Although someone in Chiang Mai may have better luck in that regard.
I think this is one reason so few schools offer a strictly conversational thai class. If anyone knows a private thai language school that offers a good conversational thai class, please post it on here. 
Posted 2010-03-06 12:50:49
Tod - it's interesting the different perspectives one can have. Personally I prefer subjects more Thai related. To interject words like - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Sherlock Holmes - James Bond etc etc etc.. I consider just a total waste of time. I am sure if I ever have a need to discuss Kennedy with a Thai I will know the "correct" Thai pronounciation.
"Dated" material - 40 some years old.
But thanks for your input.
Posted 2010-03-06 13:37:03
I have a plan to find a one-on-one teacher soon for conversation, but I need to find one that is willing to be led by the student rather than impose her own ideas.
My plan is to take both an English and a Thai newspaper to each lesson. I will have her read the Thai paper, and choose a story to discuss with me. I'll also brush up my reading skills by asking her about word/slang I don't know from the paper. After that, I'll choose a story or two from the English paper to try to explain to her in Thai (I'm not going to let her practice her English reading skills, though...  ) and to generate a conversation.
Anybody got any thoughts on this approach? It's just an idea at the moment. Also, anyone know of a school/teacher that is likely to be open to student-led lessons?
Sw
Edited by SoftWater, 2010-03-06 13:45:27.
#479
tod-daniels
Posted 2010-03-06 14:57:46
 SoftWater, on 2010-03-06 13:37:03, said:
My plan is to take both an English and a Thai newspaper to each lesson. I will have her read the Thai paper, and choose a story to discuss with me.
Anybody got any thoughts on this approach? It's just an idea at the moment. Also, anyone know of a school/teacher that is likely to be open to student-led lessons?
Sw
Overall, I've found thai newspapers real ball-busters to read with any real and/or significant comprehension.
The constant use of abbreviations, slang, the many ministries of this and that, the different political parties, and the oh-so many MP's with their mile long names, just make it a tough slog (sometimes even for your average thai as well!!! ).
Now there is a b/s paper which comes out every week called; Dara Daily (don't ask me why it’s called a daily paper but released weekly this is thailand remember?  ). It is only about the thai superstars, singers, and soap opera stars. It's just gossip of who's with who, who was seen with who, who is finished with who, and is quite an easy, fun read as well.
I've gone over articles with my former thai teachers while having coffee and it is both useful and enjoyable. Most of the gossip papers available here are written for the masses, so they use more a ภาษาพื้นๆ writing style.
Of course that's once you get past the english names of the thai dara like Benz, Beam, Bank, Paula & Pancake spelled in thai.
#480
tod-daniels
Posted 2010-03-10 17:33:47
Review of Thai Language Schools; Addendum AUA
http://www.auathai.com/home.html
I will freely admit my critique of AUA and their methodology has been quite harsh and judgmental. I think it was due to several factors.
When I first went to AUA and sat in on a class I knew nothing about the thai language, so needless to say, sitting for an hour watching two thais interact in a language which I knew very few words, was hmmm, shall we say, less than fun . I came away with a “deer in the headlites” kind of experience, really quite ‘dazed and confused”.
Today I had the chance to return and sit in on another class. I got there during lunch, and I will say it is a BUSY campus, chock full of thais attending english classes. At 1:00PM I went to the thai studies area which is in the very back of the campus on the 3rd floor. I enquired about sitting a ‘free trial’ lesson, and chatted in english with the staff in the office. She placed me in level 5’s class which started at 2:00, so I had another hour to kill. I spent the time wandering the halls looking into the windows of the various thai classes already in progress.
I was a little intimidated in sitting a level 5 class because I didn’t know if my thai was good enough (the memory of the last time I sat a class there came back to haunt me  ). I went back and asked the office if I could switch to level 3-4. The topic was religion (ugh, again, not my strong suit ), BUT I decided to persevere and sit it anyway.
It was one of the most enjoyable hours I’ve spent at ANY thai language school since I started scoping them out. Now maybe that was because I understood everything the teacher talked about, or I knew all of the vocab he wrote on the white board, and was able to follow along with his speed and cadenced of speaking thai quite easily, or perhaps a combination of all of them, I don’t know. There were 5 other students in the class, and it seemed they understood varying degrees of what was being said. Walking out of the class I actually felt I accomplished something, listening to a thai talk for an hour, understanding it, and actually proving to myself that I can understand this language to some degree.
As far as tuition; you’d be hard pressed to find a cheaper school to attend in terms of baht per hour class time (especially if you buy in blocks of hours). I also doubt there’s a thai language school which offers more classes at more times then AUA does as their schedule runs from 7:00AM until 8:00PM M-Th, from 7:00AM until 5:00PM Friday, and 9:00Am until 4:00PM on Saturday. Their teachers are some of the most animated and enthusiastic teachers I’ve ever seen at any school. EVERY class I peered into had teachers miming out things, writing on the white board, using props and the like to facilitate getting the meaning of what they were saying across to the students. It also appeared the students were following along, etc.
After the class I went back to the office to see if I could speak to some students who’d already attended a lot of hours to see if any could really speak thai. Unfortunately due to my “bull in a china shop approach” I made less than a stellar impression on the staff when I asked if I could speak to some current students to see if this was a good method or just b/s. Sadly no students were there to ‘interview’, but David Long was gracious enough to make the time and chat with me for a few minutes. In my conversation with him I can say without a doubt he is a firm believer in AUA’s ALG methodology (no shocker there!!). He is definitely engaging and able to convey what he perceives to be the merits of the ALG system. I asked him why they didn’t concentrate more on the E/D visa aspect like most private thai language schools, and he said that was by design. Their criteria for assisting in securing an E/D visa I think is attending class 30 hours a week as opposed to most schools using the MOE minimum of 4. I would like to sit in on the reading/writing thai class to see if my level is sufficient to under take study in those areas at AUA, but didn’t have the time today.
I also would like to have spoken to some new students to see if they were getting their “bang-4-the-baht” in terms of learning, but I’ll hafta save that for another day.
Does the ALG method work, I’ll leave that for you to decide yourself.
For myself, and what I got out of it; after already understanding quite a lot of spoken thai, I can say it was well worth the time, and I strongly urge ANYONE who understands even rudimentary thai to attend their free class to see if you can increase your comprehension in spoken thai. I think it would be especially advantageous to students who are at the “hump”, where you can understand some things, yet when the topic veers off the script you’re lost. I’ll definitely be returning to the school, because I found it was such a positive reinforcement to my listening and comprehension of spoken thai, and I need all the help I can get in that area. 
Posted 2010-03-10 17:41:45
Excellent writeup Tod. Thanks!
There are a few bloggers writing about the AUA method.
One already went through the program (satisfied) and no longer updates his blog.
The other is working through it now (also satisfied).
I don't cotton to the theory of arriving at AUA with no Thai, but the rest might work with me.
(haven't tried it, so can't say for sure, obviously)
Posted 2010-03-10 19:22:56
Tod - very interesting post. How do you compare AUA now to Walen? Price, Quality - Efficacy?
Posted 2010-03-11 20:09:49
There's an interesting framework of Thai studies in the US (1999) (available at http://n68h78.cs.niu...LLF/Default.htm ) that details the variety of Thai language course in American universities. It may be of some use to those who are seeking quality language training here in Thailand. As an example, in the Northern Illinois University course description, the comment:
"..........by making the class as "interactive" as possible, by the end of the first semester, all students can carry can carry on a simple conversation based on the first ten lessons of the AUA Thai Language Course Book I, and the first ten lessons of the Thai primary school reader that I simply refer to as "Maanii,"
and
"Every Friday we have a student-centered exam which requires each student to use three skills: speaking, listening, and writing, They write in Thai script only--- never in phonemics."
Maybe it's not fair to compare language training in Thai language schools with that of the universities elsewhere, but at least it gives you some idea of what a student expects semester to semester back in the US. That may be a good starting point for seeking out quality language training here (even if done with a private teacher).
Posted 2010-03-11 21:21:18
I think it is fair to compare serious Thai students in the US with serious Thai students in Thailand. I believe their aim is the same in the US and in Thailand - namely to learn to speak Thai as efficiently as possible.
Unfortunately - supplying Ed Visas to disinterested "students" wanting to live in Thailand appears to be the main objective of some private Thai Language Schools (just look at their advertising) and improved quality teaching Thai is not the Schools concern.
I also believe frequent quality "interaction" in Thai and writing in Thaiscript is part of the solution.
Edited by Parvis, 2010-03-11 21:22:31.
#485
tod-daniels
Posted 2010-03-21 12:36:19
Parvis, on 2010-03-10 19:22:56, said: Tod - very interesting post. How do you compare AUA now to Walen? Price, Quality - Efficacy?
Sadly comparing Walen and AUA are like comparing apples to oranges Aside from both of them being fruit there are few similarities; so aside from both of them being thai language schools they have much more dissimilarities than things in common.
I still say AUA is NOT a beginning school, and if you know zero thai, you’re likely to come out of an hour’s lesson more discouraged than you entered. I know David Long disagrees with this, but seeing as there is NO in class interaction, NO ability to ask questions and NO speaking it’s my own personal take on their methodology. I guess I prefer to learn more interactively than passively.
However with that being said, ANYONE who knows even a smattering of thai can and will benefit from sitting their classes. The teachers do a sufficient job in miming out new vocabulary words so you can at least glean the meaning. They speak at normal thai cadence and speech patterns, so you’re exposed to regularly spoken thai, not a teacher over pronouncing words at a snails pace.
I’m gonna try to sit some more classes at AUA this upcoming week just to gauge the level of my comprehension. Last time I sat level 3-4 and easily understood the context of the hour long lesson.
The biggest drawback in my quest for speaking, reading & writing thai is my own doubts about my ability.  The extreme reticence I have in speaking thai; even if I know how to say it correctly, with the proper structure has held me back much more than what ever school or method I would care to attend.
When I add in the fact I recognize written thai words via context and/or memorized recognition, instead of by the toning and/or pronunciation rules; it means I sometimes pronounce words wrong. 
I still gotta take the time to learn the tone rules, but so far it’s beyond me.
Posted 2010-04-14 11:53:47
Mr. Tod Daniels, I salute your language learning efforts as I see you getting closer and closer to a solution. I would suggest that avoiding the tone rules at this point is a very good thing. All you have to do is attend the AUA classes regularly, and when you're there, be fully there. The learning will happen--naturally--and that's the point of the approach.
As far as pronunciation goes, we need to mimic as closely as possible the native-Thai pronunciation we come across, but the theory that one will learn the tone rules and then apply them when speaking is and always has been bogus. Most of the language teaching industry wants it to work that way. Too bad it doesn't.
I believe Dr. J. Marvin Brown was at least 50 when he was finally able to free his mind in terms of language learning. It took me until the age of 50 to free my mind. Perhaps you (being retired) are over 50 as well as you begin to question your lifelong language learning beliefs.
Good luck, my friend. I hope to see you in the AUA classes if the accident will.
Posted 2010-04-14 15:16:47
Good point - kpmsprtd
Do Thai children learn tone rules while learning to speak - ofcourse not.
Do Thai children learn tone rules when they learn to read and write - ofcourse.
Assuming I am correct - it is therefore logically a question of - WHEN not IF - tone rules etc. become necessary for any of us farangs.
I am also over 50 - in fact - way over 50. My primary concern is speaking Thai - therefore "mimicing" Thai pronounciation. But I am also making progress in reading Thai script - therefore tone rules eventually will become necessary if I want to read aloud correctly - spell correctly - and for that matter - comprehend what I am reading correctly.
Edited by Parvis, 2010-04-14 15:20:15.
Posted 2010-04-14 20:09:40
kpmsprtd, on 2010-04-14 11:53:47, said: Mr. Tod Daniels, I salute your language learning efforts as I see you getting closer and closer to a solution. I would suggest that avoiding the tone rules at this point is a very good thing. All you have to do is attend the AUA classes regularly, and when you're there, be fully there. The learning will happen--naturally--and that's the point of the approach.
As far as pronunciation goes, we need to mimic as closely as possible the native-Thai pronunciation we come across, but the theory that one will learn the tone rules and then apply them when speaking is and always has been bogus. Most of the language teaching industry wants it to work that way. Too bad it doesn't.
The AUA method is interesting and certainly should help with clear pronunciation. I'm just wondering how long it takes using this method to actually speak conversationally; how many words do you learn with AUA per hour? Especially since you seem to be saying the method discourages reading (which I've always thought of as a good way to supplement vocabulary and grammar studies). I'm assuming it discourages reading since it would seem non-sensical to promote the ability to read Thai but only with a middle tone; if you're going to read, it would seem to make sense to spend the extra 10% of time to figure out how to clearly pronounce words. And yes, Thai children definitely learn the tone rules when learning how to read.
I think promoting only a single method is the wrong approach. Learning to read/write, speak and listen are different skills and there are many facets to them, so I would think one would try throwing a bunch of methods at the problem and keep with whatever sticks for you. I'm guessing for kpmsprtd the AUA method has been very good in getting you to or towards a conversational level. I would think it would however take a long time to get there with only this method.
lomonlemon
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Posted 2010-04-15 01:49:05
anyone knows if there's any thai language schools in ngamwongwan , nonthaburi? i dont want to travel so far just to attend lessons though
Posted 2010-04-15 03:13:42
Thanks for your well expressed comments, El Jefe. Unfortunately, I am extremely guilty of analyzing. Despite my conviction that this penchant for willful language analysis impedes my long term fluency, I still engage in it daily. At the same time, I do try to set up as many conditions as possible for acquisition. I listen to podcasts, watch movies, and spend a lot of time lurking on Thai language social networking sites. I read quite a bit, but I do not read out loud. How useful a skill is it, really, to be able to read out loud in Thai?
I am familiar with all the tone rules, but I am deliberately spending no effort on memorizing them. All my effort is focused on gathering what Dr. J. Marvin Brown called Mental Image Flashes. I'll use the example of the Thai word เรียบร้ย. I see the tone markers now, but they don't tell me what tones to use as I haven't memorized the rules. However, I recently spent one day with a family. The 10-year-old daughter took pictures all day long, and every time, when she was satisfied with the shot, she said: "เรียบร้ย" I know exactly how to say the word. I can still see and hear that wonderful little girl saying it in my mind's eye. The dictionary tells me it's a falling tone, followed by a high tone. I don't know about that. I only know how to pronounce it fairly closely to how the girl did it. And when I read aloud--if I ever read aloud--I will know how to pronounce เรียบร้ย. Maybe after I achieve a practical level of proficiency, I will sit down and work backwards. That is, I'll look at the words I already know how to pronounce and apply the tone rules to perhaps figure out something along the lines of: That's what they mean by a high tone. Or: So this is what they're calling a rising tone.
As an experiment, think about the words you really know, the magical words for you, where you can remember exactly when/how you acquired that word. Fascinating, isn't it?
But you're certainly right about different approaches being required for different skills. I make no apologies for using a fairly analytical approach in learning reading/writing. I do have Mental Image Flashes for key learnings there as well, however. My most recent example is เหาว. After knowing it conversationally, including the pronunciation, I was surprised one day recently on a social networking site, when it suddenly dawned on me that this strange (to me) spelling was "ngao". Years of willful analytical study be damned, it was only at that moment that the spelling/pronunciation came together for me. And the big driver behind that learning success was context.
Mental Image Flashes, what an interesting concept...
--------------------------------------------
El Jefe wrote: "I think promoting only a single method is the wrong approach. Learning to read/write, speak and listen are different skills and there are many facets to them, so I would think one would try throwing a bunch of methods at the problem and keep with whatever sticks for you. I'm guessing for kpmsprtd the AUA method has been very good in getting you to or towards a conversational level. I would think it would however take a long time to get there with only this method."
Posted 2010-04-15 09:10:21
In my post above, please change เหาว to เหงา. My path to typing Thai is strewn with many typos.
johnandress
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Posted 2010-04-16 00:16:37
I did a Thai class at the school one, but now I have a very good teacher - i mean perfect one in Bangkok. I am Korean, living in Thailand for some season and need Thai for my work and friends. I am taking a class with Ajarn Jumbo - he is great and yet his class is so easy. only 3 months I feel i can read and wirte also speak in advance level. in addition, it's so cheap because I am charged only 300 baht per hours. here, I wana get you guys this guy because i have tried many teacher here in bangkok but they just wasted my times and money but for this guy - Jumbo, he is worth for everything. Don't believe me, try his lesson then email me how do you like it?
shall I leave his contact: 0883821237
my email: john_ana_andress@yahoo.com
Posted 2010-05-22 18:14:14
kpmsprtd, on 2010-04-15 09:10:21, said: In my post above, please change เหาว to เหงา. My path to typing Thai is strewn with many typos.
Phew I'm glad you did....had me questioning myself for a minute there!.
Thanks
Posted 2010-07-18 06:59:29
I have been trying now for 2 months to sign up for Pro Language school in Times Square for their 20 lessons Thai course but have been let down twice now.
I really want to study Thai and I had hoped to take up the Education Visa option with Pro Language but I also want to see how the classes are before spending 25000 Baht
Has anyone studied there lately?
Thanks
Macanello
#495
tod-daniels
Posted 2010-07-20 12:03:40
macanello, on 2010-07-18 06:59:29, said:
I have been trying now for 2 months to sign up for Pro Language school in Times Square for their 20 lessons Thai course but have been let down twice now.
SNIP
I don't quite understand what "been trying for 2 months to sign up but have been let down" really means. I’m sure if you show up with money in your hand, they’ll find a way to accommodate you. ..
I know several people who are studying and have studied at Pro Language in the Times Square building. They seemed quite happy with the material and the methodology used for teaching thai to foreigners. I sat in on one of the beginner classes and thought it was pretty good "bang-4-the-baht" in terms of value.
I know they have classes going just about all the time. Sometimes if you do a group lesson (cheaper price than private) you hafta wait a week or two for them to get a group together to start the class. When you do private lessons they’re more flexible and will pretty much teach you when you want to be taught. Their price of 25K baht for 180 group lessons is right in line for the yearly deal most private thai language schools have to get you the ED visa.
I'm sure Pro will let you sit a free class or at least a free hour to scope it out. Call ‘em and see when they have a class you can sit in on.
Here’s their info:
Website;
www.prolanguage.co.th
Address;
10th Fl. Times Square Building 246 Sukhumvit Road
Bangkok, Thailand 10110
Phone;
Tel. 02-250-0072 (5 lines)
I just called them and they have a new beginner class starting tomorrow the 21st from 6:00 – 7:40PM
BTW: I am NOT affiliated with Pro Language, and offer my opinion ONLY. 
Posted 2010-07-20 13:22:37
tod-daniels, on 2010-03-21 12:36:19, said:
Parvis, on 2010-03-10 19:22:56, said: Tod - very interesting post. How do you compare AUA now to Walen? Price, Quality - Efficacy?
Sadly comparing Walen and AUA are like comparing apples to oranges Aside from both of them being fruit there are few similarities; so aside from both of them being thai language schools they have much more dissimilarities than things in common.
I still say AUA is NOT a beginning school, and if you know zero thai, you’re likely to come out of an hour’s lesson more discouraged than you entered. I know David Long disagrees with this, but seeing as there is NO in class interaction, NO ability to ask questions and NO speaking it’s my own personal take on their methodology. I guess I prefer to learn more interactively than passively.
However with that being said, ANYONE who knows even a smattering of thai can and will benefit from sitting their classes. The teachers do a sufficient job in miming out new vocabulary words so you can at least glean the meaning. They speak at normal thai cadence and speech patterns, so you’re exposed to regularly spoken thai, not a teacher over pronouncing words at a snails pace.
I’m gonna try to sit some more classes at AUA this upcoming week just to gauge the level of my comprehension. Last time I sat level 3-4 and easily understood the context of the hour long lesson.
The biggest drawback in my quest for speaking, reading & writing thai is my own doubts about my ability. The extreme reticence I have in speaking thai; even if I know how to say it correctly, with the proper structure has held me back much more than what ever school or method I would care to attend.
When I add in the fact I recognize written thai words via context and/or memorized recognition, instead of by the toning and/or pronunciation rules; it means I sometimes pronounce words wrong.
I still gotta take the time to learn the tone rules, but so far it’s beyond me.
Tod I am curious to know if you sat some more classes at AUA and what your experience was.
Posted 2010-07-23 15:37:51
I'd concur with some of the other posters regarding AUA. I started attending a few months back after having a couple of years of learning from online resources / books etc (which I still like to do to practice reading). I found it to be very useful reinforcing my comprehension of the language, albeit at a low level (my main first goal!). The flexibility / cost is second to none for me, since there are so many classes and I'm out of the country for sometimes 6 weeks at a time working (spending only about half a year in Thailand), so I can come back and get stuck back into the classes at my level. The lessons, for me at least, are made enjoyable by the teachers.
KorKai
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Posted 2010-07-27 20:17:40
macwalen, on 2010-01-14 15:10:18, said:
If you read more this forum you will find that our teachers are actually considered very good.
Walen School - our teachers are our pride!
www.thaiwalen.com
I am not a Walen hater, far from it.
I would like to however offer some constructive feedback.
Some of your teachers are exceptionaly good, some are not so good.
As someone who has attended many lessons, both group lessons and private lessons, and as someone who's proffesion was adult education for the last 15 years, both as a teacher, a teacher of teachers and a business owner, I would like to offer a suggestion to improve what you have on offer.
As with all feedback you can take it as a gift, open it, or leave it to one side.
How I see your business is.. rather like a gym, it is about membership, who signs up, rather than who attends. Those signing up to obtain an Education visa being your income, lessons are maybe secondary to that.
I have been/am a regular attendee, but I have seen many people use your school just to get the visa, and either do not want to do the lessons, or get put off but the lack of quality of your less than best teachers.
What I have observed is that the best teachers also tend to be the best at doing the paperwork for the visas, so your students are left, quite often, with the less than best teachers most days.
I can see the focus on making money and getting the paperwork right, I can also see and speak to the unhappy students who are not getting the best possible you could offer with your better teachers.
So as to a constructive way forward:
Feedback is the way you really know how your teachers are doing. In the best adult teaching environments, the adult students are asked to fill out feedback forms about the teachers performance.
This one simple step would tell you a lot about your perceptions vs. your customers perceptions.
There is also ongoing evaluations of your rookie teachers. An experienced teacher sitting in on a class regularly (for the whole 50 minutes) and filling in a feedback sheet and offering feedback on what they are doing well and what they need to work on.
I am sure you will learn a lot if you are brave enough to put this in place.
I would like your busines to do well, I attend in Pattaya and I am a keen student.... It is often humbling to get 100% honest feedback from your customers, but if you are truely wanting Walen to be the best it can possibly be.... some humility along the way can pay off big time in a large improvement of what you offer in the future.
All the best.
Edited by KorKai, 2010-07-27 20:20:36.
Posted 2010-07-28 12:39:31
Thank you for your feedback. We are indeed committed to excellence. I will implement teacher evaluation forms, it is a very good idea. We do not want to focus on the visa side as we are first and foremost a language school. It is true that some of the students are not as interested in learning as they are in obtaining visas and we are providing professional service to them and do our best to develop their deeper interest in learning Thai or English.
Thank you for your post. Really appreciate it.
Walen School - committed to excellence
www.thaiwalen.com
For priority service please register
www.dcs.walenschool.com/1mw290910.eng
Edited by macwalen, 2011-02-28 21:21:43.
Posted 2010-07-28 20:11:29
kpmsprtd, on 2010-04-14 11:53:47, said:
Mr. Tod Daniels, I salute your language learning efforts as I see you getting closer and closer to a solution. I would suggest that avoiding the tone rules at this point is a very good thing. All you have to do is attend the AUA classes regularly, and when you're there, be fully there. The learning will happen--naturally--and that's the point of the approach.
As far as pronunciation goes, we need to mimic as closely as possible the native-Thai pronunciation we come across, but the theory that one will learn the tone rules and then apply them when speaking is and always has been bogus. Most of the language teaching industry wants it to work that way. Too bad it doesn't.
I believe Dr. J. Marvin Brown was at least 50 when he was finally able to free his mind in terms of language learning. It took me until the age of 50 to free my mind. Perhaps you (being retired) are over 50 as well as you begin to question your lifelong language learning beliefs.
Good luck, my friend. I hope to see you in the AUA classes if the accident will.
I was hopeless with tones too, the problem for me was that every method I attempted only served to confuse me more. I think this is because they try to get you into vocabulary before you can even make the right sounds. I felt I was permanently stuck, hoping that context would be enough. But then I got the High speed Thai course and they hit you right off the start with tones, it's 125 pages before they give you your first vocabulary words.
I got to say it took about 10 days to have the rules internalized. I already knew how to read Thai, but my Thai was toneless and as confusing to me as it was to anyone else. Now when I see a word, I know instantly (most of the time) what the tone is, and I can memorize the word with the tone it makes instead of just hoping I'll start to say it right one day.
My problem now is relearning the words I have been mispronouncing for the last 7 years.
Edited by canuckamuck, 2010-07-28 20:14:07.
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