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ข่มขืน


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#1 edwardandtubs

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Posted 2012-12-29 16:11:22

Rape and sexual abuse are a common theme in Thai movies and as I like watching and talking about movies to learn Thai, I'd be grateful for any help.

In the film Buppah Rahtree, someone is talking about a story he's reading in a newspaper. He says:

พ่อข่มขืนลูกนานนับสิบปี


The subtitles translate this as:

Father sexually abuses kid for ten years


Every dictionary I've looked at translates ข่มขืน as rape. Can it also be used to describe sexual abuse in a more general sense?

At one stage in the film, Buppah's stepfather molests her. He has his head between her legs and she's crying. What word can we use in spoken Thai for sexual molestation or abuse like this? The dictionaries are coming up with ทำร้ายร่างกาย, ลวนลาม, เบียดเบียน, เอารัด and ปลุกปล้ำ. Are any of those the right word for the situation?

Gang rape is also a common theme in Thai movies. What's the most appropriate expression in spoken Thai? How about sexual assault (not rape) and attempted rape?

Edited by edwardandtubs, 2012-12-29 16:12:08.


#2 tgeezer

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Posted 2012-12-30 08:54:29

I suppose that ข่มขืน is translated as rape because that is the context in which it has come to be used or is used in this case. It means บังคับ ขูเข็ญ ขืนใจ. Use your power to make someone do something. Sometimes it could be good; ขืนใจเด็กให้กินยา or bad ขูเข็ญ intimidate, so that the person fears the consequences of not complying.
I wouldn't trust any E/T dictionary, TL.com's dictionary has ขืนใจ as 'rape' which makes the RID example above look a little strange
The picture tells the story. For a single incident ลวนลามis to go beyond what is acceptable in a relationship.

I may not be much help because all I do is look up the definitions which anyone can do. I find it enjoyable as an end in itself and post only to clarify my own interpretations.
I would say ข่มขืน for any act of forcing someone to do anything against their will, the details would need to be spelled out, which half an hour with a proper English Thai dictionary should provide.

I would like to find someone who likes to thrash things out thoroughly, but I fear the need to express English in Thai and to make Thai into English prose dominates these forums.

#3 starrdog

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Posted 2012-12-30 10:19:46

For gang rape, I've heard รุมโทรม used in movies, and learned of the idiom เวียนเทียน when trying to pronounce the capital of Laos.

#4 tgeezer

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Posted 2012-12-30 14:33:36

For gang rape, I've heard รุมโทรม used in movies, and learned of the idiom เวียนเทียน when trying to pronounce the capital of Laos.

Precisely, non of those words are specific to any sexual act, they are everday words which apply to the nature of what is happening, รุนโทรม s to force a deterioration of something and เวียนเทียน refers to walking around the thing vererated, and idiomatically means going round for a second go. They are what one might call 'nudge-nudge, wink-wink' words. Incidentally I think that N-N,W-W is the closest English gets to Thai.

#5 Dancealot

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Posted 2012-12-30 14:37:57

I agree with Tgeezer. While learning thai for a long time now, i discovered way too late that many words are defined by context. Doesnt make things easier for a farang trying to learnPosted Image . Important lesson.

To the OP. If you learning the lingo focusing on the good words will benefit you more.

Edited by Dancealot, 2012-12-30 14:40:34.


#6 edwardandtubs

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Posted 2012-12-30 15:34:19

I may not be much help because all I do is look up the definitions which anyone can do. I find it enjoyable as an end in itself and post only to clarify my own interpretations.
I would say ข่มขืน for any act of forcing someone to do anything against their will, the details would need to be spelled out, which half an hour with a proper English Thai dictionary should provide.


In the scene in Buppah Rahtree where the guy is reading from the newspaper there is no specific context suggesting sexual abuse but that is clearly what everyone understood. It obviously wasn't a reference to the father forcing the kid to do homework. I suspect it's commonly used to refer to sexual assault, without being specific about the act committed.

Edited by edwardandtubs, 2012-12-30 15:36:12.


#7 tgeezer

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Posted 2012-12-30 17:43:39


I may not be much help because all I do is look up the definitions which anyone can do. I find it enjoyable as an end in itself and post only to clarify my own interpretations.
I would say ข่มขืน for any act of forcing someone to do anything against their will, the details would need to be spelled out, which half an hour with a proper English Thai dictionary should provide.


In the scene in Buppah Rahtree where the guy is reading from the newspaper there is no specific context suggesting sexual abuse but that is clearly what everyone understood. It obviously wasn't a reference to the father forcing the kid to do homework. I suspect it's commonly used to refer to sexual assault, without being specific about the act committed.

I have just figured it out ข่มขขืนกระทำชำเรา is the legal term for rape (noun) forced intercourse. Lacking a verb I guess ข่มขืน would be short for rape.
I take back what I said about the T-L.com dictionary it doesn't say that ขืนใจ means rape. It does however say that this; ชำเรา ๑ (กฎ) ก. ร่วมประเวณี, กระทําการร่วมเพศ. is to rape; to take by force. So we need to be careful where we get out info.
I had better post now
because all sorts of <deleted>
is going on, my pointer has chaged to a cross the text above is going right as I type oh heck. ชำเรา ๒ oH and this bloody thing can't be deleted and it is blue!!!





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