[Prakanong2005]

Better educated than you sunny jim but that is by the by.

Who ever said I was programming the MLM system?

A jump is assumption showing you for what you are.

I was a BA on it - I can assure you I understood the business plus all the math that goes into calculating the downline etc plus the CRM part.

Why am I not surprised you did not know the business of what you were working on ;-)

Anyway back to the scam - which MLM products would stand on their own in the wider market place?

Most if not all can only be sold through MLM - they need the add on sleaze factor that is MLM and the shyster sales techniques on a par with timeshare and holiday clubs.

Now moving to markets without the legal protections that sophisticated developed economies have to protect the weak and stupid from themselves.

Snakeoil salesmen the lot of you - no wonder a google on MLM scams brings up so many hits. Goji Juice scam is also interesting

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=goj...le+Search&meta=

Then again all those sites are probably run by losers according to you who did not listen to the Nightingale sing - ho hum

This post has been edited by Prakanong2005: 2006-05-13 04:19

[Prakanong2005]

By the people who brought you quackwatch exposing those snake oil salesman in the health biz - now they have turned to MLM

http://www.mlmwatch.org/

Another good site

http://www.vandruff.com/ mlm.html
http://www.vandruff.com/ mlm_FAQ.html

Lampooning MLM's

http://www.worldwidescam.com

I do like the 10 lies of MLM though

http://www.mlmwatch....ral/10lies.html

This post has been edited by Prakanong2005: 2006-05-13 04:16

[Prakanong2005]

"

Goji berries are your normal Lycium berries.

The following is gleaned from a recent discussion on a mailing list for herbalists:

1) Both Lycium eleagnus pungens and Lycium eleagnus barbarum are manufactured names; there is no such thing, botanically. The berry sold under those names is your normal Lycium barbarum or wolfberry.
2) There is no such thing as wild Tibetan goji berries. These, too, are normal Lycium barbarum berries. Ditto for Himalayan goji.
3) The so-called Tibetan-grown goji berries are a) normal lycium berries (Lycium barbarum), and Mongolian-grown, like the rest of the Lycium berries on the market.
4) Lycium is in the Solanaceae (nightshade family). Elaeagnus is in the Elaeagnaceae (oleaster family). They are not related, nor have they been each other's synonyms.
5) You can buy lycium berries (Lycium barbarum) in bulk herb stores at $7-$10 a pound. Good quality lycium berries are the same stuff that is sold as goji for a far higher price. By the way, sulphured lycium berries are bright red-orange, and they are not good quality.
6) The statement that Chinese-grown Lycium berries are pesticide-laden is just commercial competitor-bashing. If somebody tries to tell you that ask them for the lab reports.

The name "goji berry" comes of course from the Chinese name for lycium: Gou Qi Zi. It helps to know that qi is pronounced "chi".

There. Now, don't get hoodwinked, don't hop onto bandwagons, and don't buy goji berries. Buy unsulphured lycium berries instead. Your wallet will thank you."

[retire_young2005]

Prakanong2005, on 2006-05-12 14:23:58, said:

"

Goji berries are your normal Lycium berries.

The following is gleaned from a recent discussion on a mailing list for herbalists:

1) Both Lycium eleagnus pungens and Lycium eleagnus barbarum are manufactured names; there is no such thing, botanically. The berry sold under those names is your normal Lycium barbarum or wolfberry.
2) There is no such thing as wild Tibetan goji berries. These, too, are normal Lycium barbarum berries. Ditto for Himalayan goji.
3) The so-called Tibetan-grown goji berries are a) normal lycium berries (Lycium barbarum), and Mongolian-grown, like the rest of the Lycium berries on the market.
4) Lycium is in the Solanaceae (nightshade family). Elaeagnus is in the Elaeagnaceae (oleaster family). They are not related, nor have they been each other's synonyms.
5) You can buy lycium berries (Lycium barbarum) in bulk herb stores at $7-$10 a pound. Good quality lycium berries are the same stuff that is sold as goji for a far higher price. By the way, sulphured lycium berries are bright red-orange, and they are not good quality.
6) The statement that Chinese-grown Lycium berries are pesticide-laden is just commercial competitor-bashing. If somebody tries to tell you that ask them for the lab reports.

The name "goji berry" comes of course from the Chinese name for lycium: Gou Qi Zi. It helps to know that qi is pronounced "chi".

There. Now, don't get hoodwinked, don't hop onto bandwagons, and don't buy goji berries. Buy unsulphured lycium berries instead. Your wallet will thank you."

I'll educate you with the facts when I return from my trip to New Zealand. Stay tuned. For the accurate facts.

This post has been edited by retire_young2005: 2006-05-13 07:01

[Prakanong2005]

Could you not have posted a quick post of the accurate facts straight off the top of your head?

I know you are as brainwashed as a wide eyed lunatic ideologue but face reality.

Charlatan!

While you are on post the facts obtained in a double blind clinical trial run unger ICH/GCP and fild with the FDA / EMEA then I will believe you.

Until you can my friend you are selling snake oil and you are a charlatan trying to scam people.

You admit you failed before with MLM - joined to late did we and managed to join this pyramid early enough did we?

Anyway - just give me the accurate facts from the clinical trials run under ICH/GCP with a statistically significant result proving the effifacy and effectiveness of the Goji juice - I wager you right here and now you can not and will blather and splutter some absolute drivel as is wont from charaltans, scammers and snake oil salesmen.

This post has been edited by Prakanong2005: 2006-05-13 11:48

[Jasmine]

Prakanong2005, on 2006-05-13 11:46:27, said:

Anyway - just give me the accurate facts from the clinical trials run under ICH/GCP with a statistically significant result proving the effifacy and effectiveness of the Goji juice - I wager you right here and now you can not and will blather and splutter some absolute drivel as is wont from charaltans, scammers and snake oil salesmen.

Agree with this

I have a child with a disability (neural) and as parents we're always being approached by snake oil salesmen trying to flog us stuff to help our children.

Noni juice was being bandied around to us a few years ago as virtually a cure for the condition our kids have.

I'm able to see these things for what they are but even intelligent parents of kids with disabilities waste their money on these things. They are often caught out in the early days when they are at their most sensitive and vunerable.

I'm not saying retire young is trying to sell to this market (he may be I don't know) but how disgusting can you be to try to make money off the back of grieving and scared parents?

[Prakanong2005]

Jasmine, on 2006-05-13 13:41:43, said:

Prakanong2005, on 2006-05-13 11:46:27, said:

Anyway - just give me the accurate facts from the clinical trials run under ICH/GCP with a statistically significant result proving the effifacy and effectiveness of the Goji juice - I wager you right here and now you can not and will blather and splutter some absolute drivel as is wont from charaltans, scammers and snake oil salesmen.

Agree with this

I have a child with a disability (neural) and as parents we're always being approached by snake oil salesmen trying to flog us stuff to help our children.

Noni juice was being bandied around to us a few years ago as virtually a cure for the condition our kids have.

I'm able to see these things for what they are but even intelligent parents of kids with disabilities waste their money on these things. They are often caught out in the early days when they are at their most sensitive and vunerable.

I'm not saying retire young is trying to sell to this market (he may be I don't know) but how disgusting can you be to try to make money off the back of grieving and scared parents?

Totally agree with you too Jasmine about how parents under pressure can be taken advantage of by these people and they have no qualms about doing so.

Some of them (the snake oil salesman) may even beleive the rubbish they peddle and not understand about real and proper clinical trials and studies - ignorance is no excuse though and sites like www.quackwatch.com are excellent at uncovering these fraudsters.

I wish you and you family well and hope some releif can be brought to your child.

I am lucky enough to work in an industry whose products literally save hundreds of thousands of childrens lives each year and I am lucky in that i enjoy my job a great deal.

I also observe the medical professionals who are in the top tier of there professional lives taking great pride in their work and have been priviledged enough to see a product go from testing to reality.

The snake oil salemen and the Dr's that are a disgrace to their profession behind some of them are scum - plain and simple.

[Gary A]

Quite frankly there are no juices or green teas that are miracle life extenders. The green tea farce went a long way but it too failed to have any miracle results. The people who profited from selling this hype may have truly believed in it but it is a farce anyway you think.

[Prakanong2005]

Gary A, on 2006-05-13 14:16:29, said:

Quite frankly there are no juices or green teas that are miracle life extenders. The green tea farce went a long way but it too failed to have any miracle results. The people who profited from selling this hype may have truly believed in it but it is a farce anyway you think.

Exactlly

I do not remember the exact quote but it goes something like this

"The greatest advance in Medical Science over the last 200 years is the double blind, randomised clinical trial - at least we know know what works and what does not"

We need to add the safety proviso though - for example Vioxx worked but was not safe and was missed/ignored in the long term safety follow up data

[Jasmine]

Prakanong2005, on 2006-05-13 19:03:21, said:

Some of them (the snake oil salesman) may even beleive the rubbish they peddle and not understand about real and proper clinical trials and studies - ignorance is no excuse though and sites like www.quackwatch.com are excellent at uncovering these fraudsters.

I wish you and you family well and hope some releif can be brought to your child.

Thank you.

I've visited the quackwatch site before, you're right it's excellent.

I'm just waiting to be offered goji as a panacea!

Glyconutrients have also been pushed to parents recently but the big ongoing and particularly worrying one is chelation.

This post has been edited by Jasmine: 2006-05-13 20:14

[Prakanong2005]

You could try looking and see what clinical trials are going on for your childs condition (if any) that ar run with proper ontrols.

It is a very big decision though to put your child forward for this but after consideration many parents do this and it is well worth it in many cases as it not only helps their children but many others.

Having said that its much easier in certain areas such as vaccines than others but we have hundreds of thousands of parents who have had their children vaccinated with candidate vaccines to thank for sccessful vaccines on the market right now saving lives every single day.

Hopefully soon we will have vaccine for many other diseases and conditions such as Dengue, Malaria and many more - we are even close to vaccines for certain cancers.

This post has been edited by Prakanong2005: 2006-05-13 20:35

[surfline]

Prakanong2005, on 2006-05-13 02:03:17, said:

simon43, on 2006-05-11 10:03:47, said:

There are many ways to become successful and rich - and there are many ways which are less risky than the MLM business. For every successful MLM businessman/woman, I wonder how many other people there are who have followed the same path and lost everything....

Simon

pleese cheke spellin!!!


I do not think many lose everything (some did when Cabouchon collapsed in the UK though) but many have not made anything like they were lead to believe they would and those that made something probably made min wage per hour put in (maybe a bit of an exaggeration but not much i bet).

Then if they do not make it the classic reasons are put forward

Did not work hard enough

Not the right kind of people

etc etc

Now this is absolute shite only trotted out to protect the shakey ego's of the marketeers and to keep the scam going

[Taff]

We all know what MLM means, it means for a start that the product is always more expensive than selling through other means. There are always the uplines making money, and going on romantic trips to the West Indies or Mexico, or somewhere that sounds great. Do you think the owner of the company pays for this? or the salesperson? No. No. No. Its the customer, YOU, that pays. As regards to Goji Juice, there are a couple of different brands knocking around, but the main one is MLM, they want you to sell their product, to all your friends, relatives, workmates, it gets to the stage where everybody you know pretend that they are not at home when you walk down the street.

Goji Juice is very overpriced for what it is, reconstituted Goji Juice, which means it has water added, Pear Juice and Grape Juice, the last two products you can buy in the supermarket for a couple of dollars a bottle, How much actual Goji is in a bottle, is anyones guess, because that is not disclosed.

The main danger with taking this juice, is that it contains Vitamin C [Ascorbic Acid] and it also contains Sodium Benzoate as a preservative, which I am sure the natives of the Himalayas have not been using for the past 3000, years.

The combination of Ascorbic Acid [Vitamin C] and Sodium Benzoate, can form Benzine, a known Carcinogen, heat, light and shelf life can affect the rate that Benzine is formed.
The Food and Drug Administration, March 2006, is performing tests, relating to Benzine in Soft drinks and Fruit juices.

See the web page of Dr. William Rice DC, DACBN, CCN, FACCN "The Dangers of Food Additives" http://www.healthy-a...-additives.html

or visit http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/inf...dditivesall.htm to find out the additives to avoid.

The Chemist that was supposed to have made the Goji discovery, or the company, say that it is completely safe for children, Try a search on the internet for the [dangers of sodium benzoate] I certainly would not drink it myself, let alone give to my children

[Taff]

retire_young2005, on 2006-05-09 14:27:30, said:

Most people fail because of lack of belief.

People try and they come and go. Ask any successful business owner. Out of all the population there are few successful businesses. Out of all the successful businesses they vary in there success.

Take for example the Mc Donald brothers. They built a successful restaurant and starting to franchise. These two brothers built a successful business. They started off with a restaurant, then changed it to a drive in, than a fast food restaurant. They had franchises in the double digits. I forget the exact number. But there growth stopped. How did they become so accomplished when the majority of the population has not?

Ray Kroc was a milk shake machine salesman that sold equipment to the Mc Donald borthers. He eventually bought the McDonald's franchise. Ray had a vision and a stronger belief than the McDonald's brothers. Ray turned McDonald's into an international franchsie. How did Ray become so accomplished when the majority of the population has not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kroc

Two years ago I learned the secret of success and that is you must believe you will be successful.
Earl Nightingale created an Audio title, "The Strangest Secret" I must have listened to that a 1000 times. I even played it when I slept.
http://en.wikipedia....arl_nightingale

Ahhh, my friend I learned to believe. I learned first you must believe you will be successful at your business. Second you must do what successful people do and third you will become successful.

Based on the majority of postings on this subject, there is a lack of belief. I'm totally the opposite.

Success is partly your mindset and the other part is doing what successful people do. To be successful you can't try something, you have to believe, do and then become.

Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: Yesterday, 2006-09-21 16:38:50
Member No.: 35,163




We all know what MLM means, it means for a start that the product is always more expensive than selling through other means. There are always the uplines making money, and going on romantic trips to the West Indies or Mexico, or somewhere that sounds great. Do you think the owner of the company pays for this? or the salesperson? No. No. No. Its the customer, YOU, that pays. As regards to Goji Juice, there are a couple of different brands knocking around, but the main one is MLM, they want you to sell their product, to all your friends, relatives, workmates, it gets to the stage where everybody you know pretend that they are not at home when you walk down the street.

Goji Juice is very overpriced for what it is, reconstituted Goji Juice, which means it has water added, Pear Juice and Grape Juice, the last two products you can buy in the supermarket for a couple of dollars a bottle, How much actual Goji is in a bottle, is anyones guess, because that is not disclosed.

The main danger with taking this juice, is that it contains Vitamin C [Ascorbic Acid] and it also contains Sodium Benzoate as a preservative, which I am sure the natives of the Himalayas have not been using for the past 3000, years.

The combination of Ascorbic Acid [Vitamin C] and Sodium Benzoate, can form Benzine, a known Carcinogen, heat, light and shelf life can affect the rate that Benzine is formed.
The Food and Drug Administration, March 2006, is performing tests, relating to Benzine in Soft drinks and Fruit juices.

See the web page of Dr. William Rice DC, DACBN, CCN, FACCN "The Dangers of Food Additives" http://www.healthy-a...-additives.html

or visit http://www.fedupwith...dditivesall.htm to find out the additives to avoid.

The Chemist that was supposed to have made the Goji discovery, or the company, say that it is completely safe for children, Try a search on the internet for the [dangers of sodium benzoate] I certainly would not drink it myself, let alone give to my children bah.gif

[Anco]

I think natural food is better than manufactured food. The people in MLM claim that the food is super beneficial due to crowd pyschology and self-delusion. I have seen a parent who thinks her kid becomes vibrantly fleshy after letting her kid feed on the MLM product. But in my own eyes I see that the kid does not have difference than before. We cannot do MLM if we have 100% clear mind. MLM can only be carried out with a certain degree of delusion.

Anyway just be careful of pyramid scam who claims to be legitimate MLM.

http://www.tipskey.com/consumer_alert/read...joining_mlm.htm

This post has been edited by Anco: 2007-09-24 18:01

[t.s]

endure, on 2006-05-09 05:39:07, said:

retire_young2005, on 2006-05-08 23:22:41, said:

I read your posting and it inspired me to provide everyone a better understanding of the network marketing industry (MLM).

I read your posting and it inspired me to say that this is your first post, you joined today at 2256, you made your first post at 2322 and you're full of sh*t

there's our moderating team in action

[Thai_Help]

brahmburgers - Goji Juice hmm well sounds interesting do you know if this has been succesfful yet? Idid a search in google for - Goji juice thailand, and there seems to be a few websites promoting it.

Retire_young2005 - very good points you made reagrding the benefits of MLM, thank you for sharing these thoughts as i love learning and reading alot in thaivisa so it has been pleasurable to read through what mlm has to offer.

I recently found an MLM company in Thailand and seem quite interesting also they deal with software any thoughts anyone? This is their website http://www.mlmasian.com . I was pampering with the idea of doing some business in this area but I dont know how new mlm is still in Thailand?

[Dakhar]

To a lot of folks MLM's become a religion.

That said, I would love to have about 100 inspired Retire_Rich type people working for me, instead... I get drones, no vission, no desire to get ahead.... just day in and day out.

We even pay in kind of an MLM concept. You build up a department, you will recieve a %, but even then, this does not inspire people.

Oh well, such is life.

[rak sa_ngop]

I buy dried Goji berries (wolf berries) imported from China for about 120 baht for a 500 gm packet. Most of the herbal shops around Thanon Charoen Krung in China town sell them. You can even buy them in Foodland, but in small packets so the price is much higher. Not sure if they have any magical properties, but at that price I can sprinkle some on my Bran flakes in the morning.

[junkofdavid2]

Best way to lose your current friends (or at least scare them away):

Join MLM!

*Oh, but at least you'll also earn a lot of new MLM "friends"...

[MrSquigle]

Oh no...not an amway kinda guy.....there goes all ya friends.

Goji/Noni/baloni juices been available here for long time, seen in several shops, have half a bottle still in the fridge, cannot bring myself to finish it.

Also I believe sunbelt got inot it at some stage, got an email from them getting into it here in Los.

Too expensive, for a drink that tastes like crap....I would prefer a mouthfull of durian.

[junkofdavid2]

Hi guys,

I know what everyone's saying about these juices which don't work, and all the scams about pyramiding.

However, I invite you to join my own MLM network.

You have a very good likelihood of making a lot of money.

Just remember these few simple things!

1) You have to BELIEVE. If you don't believe, how can you ever win in anything you do and in life?

2) Quitters never win. After you sign up with the very reasonable signing up cost of only 99$ (includes very precious inventory... and lots of very good stuff which will help you 'build' your own network!), you can continue to be part of the network as long as you continue your purchases every month (of only $39 worth of product).

Note: If you stop purchasing, then that's the same as quitting... and remember, QUITTERS never win!

3) We are NOT PYRAMID because.... WE are MLM! 2 different things! I swear!

4) It's VERY SIMPLE to make A LOT of money with us! VERY SIMPLE to make money! Very SIMPLE to make money! (repeat...)

5) I have a very good product this time... very rich in vitamins, and many scientists have said that it increases body resistance and prevents very many diseases... even the common cold and the flu.

I'm selling juice from this luscious vitamin rich fruit called the Citrus Sinensis

I'm not inventing this plant! You can even Google it to find out it's health benefits!

*Oh, now that you've given your sign up fee, I'll now tell you that it's 'SO SIMPLE' to make money, but 'not easy'... I just so happened to not say the second part of the sentence when you weren't signed up yet. But at least I'm not lying to you.. Thanks!

This post has been edited by junkofdavid2: 2007-12-21 21:45

[disgruntled]

The Goji and all these health miracle-ish stuff are and have been from day one pyramid scams. There are a lot of money hunger souls here who just can't seem to get it. Call 'em suckers. I don't have much respect for the people who push this stuff but that's just me. There are plenty of things sold as beneficial in this world which come and go. I guess people just have no place to put their money.

[MrSquigle]

'5) I have a very good product this time... '

So the last ones were not so good huh ????

Amway and Timeshare sales people should get together and have a wow of a time...make new friends etc.

[Prakanong]

AmberJonas, on 2008-01-04 17:05:49, said:

Goji Juice is one of the most popular nutritional supplements in the world. It is equipped with may healthy benefits and helps in curing various diseases and the most surprising fact is that they have no side effects. This shows they are not only safe but also healthy. It contains a powerful ability to help in healing other ailments and relieve particular side effects.
http://www.gojijuiceguide.com/

Bollocks and you know it or are a blinded buffoon

Try timeshare or get a real job.

And I know MLM very well - was once IT Manager for one when down on my luck - never seen a sadde bunch of loses making bugger all for so much work in my life - nutters to a man