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[retire_young2005]

udon, on 2006-05-08 15:32:57, said:

Goji..... if it smells like puke, tastes like puke, is a dark colour, it Noni, re-labled.

I love Noni.

Just curious, where did you get it and try it in Thailand?

[retire_young2005]

endure, on 2006-05-08 15:39:07, said:

retire_young2005, on 2006-05-08 23:22:41, said:

I read your posting and it inspired me to provide everyone a better understanding of the network marketing industry (MLM).

I read your posting and it inspired me to say that this is your first post, you joined today at 2256, you made your first post at 2322 and you're full of sh*t

Those are strong words for someone that does not know me. You are quick to judge people. That surprises me. Unless you just enjoy opposing people. Your are intitled to your opinion but you should keep it professional.

Good luck with everything you do.

[retire_young2005]

No. Explain please.

[retire_young2005]

endure, on 2006-05-08 15:54:22, said:

'Boosting' is an alternative. I find it remarkable that you just happened to join TV 30 minutes before the concept of MLM needed defending and there you were, just coincidentally, with a 100 line defence all ready to go. As I said, full of it.

Good point. I actually read it. Then wrote my answer on Word. Enrolled into the forum and posted the reply. I have been meaning to write a reply to that for a week and had time to do it today.

Thanks for bringing that up.

Edited by retire_young2005, 2006-05-09 06:09:27.

[retire_young2005]

I just noticed you wrote full of it.

You are wrong. Friendly speaking.

Edited by retire_young2005, 2006-05-09 06:20:12.

[OlRedEyes]

Retire_Young, you aint gonna, if you are hoping that the MLM/Pyramid is going to do it for you.

Many have tried, few succeed, only those in at the very start.

Your long post will leave 99.9% of ppl cold. They won't even read it. Your market is the gullible, which I must admit, enjoys a constant resupply due to the high birthrate.

But you're sprouting crap, heard a thousand times before.

[retire_young2005]

Most people fail because of lack of belief.

People try and they come and go. Ask any successful business owner. Out of all the population there are few successful businesses. Out of all the successful businesses they vary in there success.

Take for example the Mc Donald brothers. They built a successful restaurant and starting to franchise. These two brothers built a successful business. They started off with a restaurant, then changed it to a drive in, than a fast food restaurant. They had franchises in the double digits. I forget the exact number. But there growth stopped. How did they become so accomplished when the majority of the population has not?

Ray Kroc was a milk shake machine salesman that sold equipment to the Mc Donald borthers. He eventually bought the McDonald's franchise. Ray had a vision and a stronger belief than the McDonald's brothers. Ray turned McDonald's into an international franchsie. How did Ray become so accomplished when the majority of the population has not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kroc

Two years ago I learned the secret of success and that is you must believe you will be successful.
Earl Nightingale created an Audio title, "The Strangest Secret" I must have listened to that a 1000 times. I even played it when I slept.
http://en.wikipedia....arl_nightingale

Ahhh, my friend I learned to believe. I learned first you must believe you will be successful at your business. Second you must do what successful people do and third you will become successful.

Based on the majority of postings on this subject, there is a lack of belief. I'm totally the opposite.

Success is partly your mindset and the other part is doing what successful people do. To be successful you can't try something, you have to believe, do and then become.

[Prakanong2005]

As for Noni in Thailand they were trying to push it back in 99.

I do not think even then anyone was daft enough to fall for it though - too many had been burned by other dodgy schemes.

MLM from Amway onwards is a joke and 99.9% of the time ends in tears.

I have seen some of the figures for one that was once a success in the UK and Europe - Cabouchon

Buy the cheap tack from China - put out a catalogue price at 10 times the amount - give away 40% of it in commission and still make a loss ;-))

[retire_young2005]

Interesting thought.



Why is that some people make a carrier out of sales/mlm yet others fail?

Why is it that some people treat it like a business and others don't?

Wealthy people obtain there wealth from business/investing, inheritance, and the lottery.

Usually the later two, most people spend away.

The remaining gained there wealth from business.

Many people are posting there bad experiences or bad experiences they have heard.

You really need to think, why you or they weren’t successful. You truly know the answer. It may have not been the company you were a part of, it may have not been the people you joined with because there are many you can work with in the upline. It can't be training, worse case scenario you can purchase books and learn and implement techniques on your own. Testing the market and seeing what works.

Really, think. How much effort did you put into building a successful business? What did you do? How did you market? Did you treat it like a million dollar business or a $25 dollar business?

Not having any money is no excuse. If you have a high quality product the price is no excuse. I see people driving around Bangkok everyday in Mercedes. Do you think the price of a mid size car like Mercedes is too high. Then why do people by them?

There are two Basic Rules in Sales to Make Your Fortune.

If you have money.
Buy then sell.

If you have no money.
Sell then Buy.

Many people blame the business, the industry but they never blame themselves for not doing what it takes to be successful.

I do admit you have to be part of a Rock Solid company. If you join a new company less than 5 years old, you are taking a risk. Any company 5 years old, or even past the 10 year mark has proven to be successful and that is the company you want to be part of. A company that wont fail, the rest is up to you. I do agree being part of a successful team is important. So find a proactive, successful upline that will mentor you to success. The rest is up to you. You have to put in the efforts to get results. If others are becoming successful and your not, I'm sorry my friend then it's you. Think about what they are doing and what you are not. Consult with your upline on a daily basis. Let them know you are there and willing to learn and do what it takes.

If you join a successful company and fail you burned yourself. I don't mean to be blunt, but I want people to really think. It's human to always blame others, it takes alot to realize the blame is really with ones self then the next step would be to move forward and learn by our mistakes.

Here are two excellent training audios that got me in the right mindset to become successful. I have listemed to them 1000s of times and still do today to keep me on track.

Building your network marketing business
http://www.jimrohn.c...pexd.asp?id=229

The Strangest Secret
http://www.nightinga...t_secret_p1.asp

Edited by retire_young2005, 2006-05-11 13:29:04.

[simon43]

There are many ways to become successful and rich - and there are many ways which are less risky than the MLM business. For every successful MLM businessman/woman, I wonder how many other people there are who have followed the same path and lost everything....

Simon

[retire_young2005]

simon43, on 2006-05-11 01:03:47, said:

There are many ways to become successful and rich - and there are many ways which are less risky than the MLM business. For every successful MLM businessman/woman, I wonder how many other people there are who have followed the same path and lost everything....

Simon

Which ways are less risky. I have not heard of any that can compare to MLM. Every investment is different and so is the risk factor. I have never heard of any that are low cost and based on your efforts, time, presistance. and dedication.

You will need capital for other investments. Anyone can buy a CD, have a money market account and so on. Slow growth investments are for anyone. When it comes to building a sales business that is different.

If you want slo growth and safe, majority of people do that, if you want long term residual income majority don't. Read the prevoius post to figure out why.

Sales is the highest paying carrier in the world. MLM offers that, unlimited income based on performance. Once you learn sales you can accomplish anything. The best business have to sell a product or an idea.

You can believe do and become with a good MLM.

I have never wondered what you have. Simply because I know, based on my belief that I will never give. Thus which has made me successful and given me an international income.

Others fail and give up based upon a hanit they have developed. It is called I'll try. Anyone involved in business needs to change there mindset to I'll do it no matter what.

Edited by retire_young2005, 2006-05-11 17:51:32.

[repoulin]

Multi-Level Marketing works good in theory, but is truely a method that benifits people at the top and evenutally becomes diluted. The Goji people contacted our Dental Clinic to see if we would be interested in becoming a marketing representative - we declined the offer.

In America a similar company offering a similar majic juice that cures everything. As it is a supplement, the FDA can not regulate it and the company can make all these claims about the product...hense the majic diet pills and so on. The work by conveincing people they will make money by people working for them. This is how it works in theory, but you now have a job to conveince people to work for you which is harder than selling the product. I asked them if we could purchase just the juice and not be a representative... that wouldn't fly. You can either sell a product to a bunch of people or sell a bunch of the products to one person. The company makes out by representatives buying at least the minimum amount at the begining and maintaining their quota of at least one "package" a month for an easy 100 USD or so. Some other Mulit Level Marketing companies make further money by having a sign-up fee of a 1000 USD.

Why you would want the job of trying to conveince people to believe in a supplement product and Multi Level Marketing idea is beyond me. Multi Level Marketing can be applied to any product, but the products that conveince people work best. Goji is the same as Noni and has the same properties as a vitamin.

To funny you got called out on your membership. Good eye Edure.

-Rich

[skylar]

nice ads on TV at the top of this thread page pertaining to aforementioned subject :
 scamway.bmp   181.34K   31 downloads

[retire_young2005]

repoulin, on 2006-05-11 04:23:00, said:

Multi-Level Marketing works good in theory, but is truely a method that benifits people at the top and evenutally becomes diluted. The Goji people contacted our Dental Clinic to see if we would be interested in becoming a marketing representative - we declined the offer.

In America a similar company offering a similar majic juice that cures everything. As it is a supplement, the FDA can not regulate it and the company can make all these claims about the product...hense the majic diet pills and so on. The work by conveincing people they will make money by people working for them. This is how it works in theory, but you now have a job to conveince people to work for you which is harder than selling the product. I asked them if we could purchase just the juice and not be a representative... that wouldn't fly. You can either sell a product to a bunch of people or sell a bunch of the products to one person. The company makes out by representatives buying at least the minimum amount at the begining and maintaining their quota of at least one "package" a month for an easy 100 USD or so. Some other Mulit Level Marketing companies make further money by having a sign-up fee of a 1000 USD.

Why you would want the job of trying to conveince people to believe in a supplement product and Multi Level Marketing idea is beyond me. Multi Level Marketing can be applied to any product, but the products that conveince people work best. Goji is the same as Noni and has the same properties as a vitamin.

To funny you got called out on your membership. Good eye Edure.

-Rich

That's a good point. But you can say that about any business even a hospital or Doctors office. Or even prescription medication. The number 4 cause of death in the USA is Doctor Error by the way.

In reference to your point on any company can start an MLM is true but the majority fail and don't become successful due to poor quality produst, poor management, not handling finances correctly.
That is why in my early post, I point out start with a company that has over 5 years experience.

Also, many companies that sell products have what is called an affiliate program. Affiliate programs only pay once on the first sale, you can't make a residual income. Most of them only pay on your sales, they don't allow you to build a sales team.

Some of your information is incorrect and not very acurate. In America, there are regulations in regards to supplements and advertising. You can not make any false claims and you can not advertise medical claims with a supplement. So you can not say it will cure a disease or medical problem.

Also in regards to the company opening in Thailand. They will open in June. So whoever your contact person was, they can not accurately tell you that you can not be a customer and by the juice on a monthly basis or as needed. Many countries that they have opened do allow that. Very few do not have a customer registration program. Even if they don't you can buy directly from a marketing executive as needed.

You are right. It is the sales business. Not only can you sell the product but you can also sell the opportunity of being a marketing executive. Enrolling other marketing executives is similar to a real estate business model. It's easier to sell houses, but for example the real estate broker sells houses but has also built a sales team of real estate agents. The agents find customers, listing and sell houses. The broker also trains the agents. The broker receives a commission on all of the sales from the agents. The tuff thing about this structure is once an agent is fully trained the only way to make more money is to open there own office and become a broker, thus creating competition for the person that just trained them. In MLM, you can make as much money as you want. You can even surpass the person that brought you into the business so you don't end up being your enrollers competition. Your enroller always has an interest in helping you become successful because he/she will get a percentage. You just have to beilieve, do, and then become. (earlier post)

Yes the company does make a profit otherwise they would not be in business. Just like your dental clinic, it would not be in business if you did not make a profit. And by the way, seeing a dentist isn't cheap. In America getting a cavity filled with a white filling costs $400 USD and only takes 10 minutes.

The answer to why I would have this job is simple. Sales is the highest paying carrier in the world. Everyone sells something and may not even know it. Whether its there favorite restaurant or a movie that they have seen and told friends about. Selling an idea or a product and being able to master the skills of sales will make wealth. It's just like selling braces to correct crooked teeth or a root canal over removing the tooth, or a gold crown compared to a silver crown or a porclien crown.

THe only simularity between goji and noni in your reference is that it is a juice. Otherwise it is completely different.

Noni (also read how the FDA does regulate claims in this article)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noni

Goji
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goji

Lets have a quick lesson on vitamins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamins

Different Grades of Vitamins: Pharmaceutical, Food, and Vetrenarian
http://www.healingpe...ical_Grade.html

You get what you pay for. Do your research and buy the best quality for the best results.

Edited by retire_young2005, 2006-05-12 07:29:25.

[Sulaphat]

Nutritional supplements sold through MLM schemes are the 21st century equivalent of the patent medicines and quack remedies sold by hucksters at traveling shows during the 19th century. Heavy use of anecdotal "proof" of benefits or efficacy. Vague, unsubstiantiated claims as to how the product works or provides its supposed benefit. Cost is significantly higher than similar products sold through conventional distribution channels.

I will join an MLM scheme when I can buy a commodity, such as gold, silver, platinum, etc. from my "upline" at a cost significantly below the price quoted on the major commodity exchanges and then sell it at market. Otherwise, in my opinion, most MLMs are merely illegal pyramid schemes using an over-priced, over-hyped product to provide it with a fig-leaf of legality.

Any time someone says that in order for something to work or for one to succeed one must "believe", what they are really asking you to do is to suspend common sense and reason. MLMs exhort their distributors to "believe" all to frequently and too fervently for my taste. This "missionary" sales approach is used when the sales force is unsophisticated and when the product or service being sold is generally uncompetitive on price or features.

Listening to motivational tapes is a waste of time, especially when they are provided by your employer, upstream, etc.

Sales is a fantastic career and potentially the most rewarding and remunerative. One should use one's talents and ambition to sell goods and services which provide real, proven benefit and meet real needs and are not being sold simply for the sake of selling something.

[skylar]

Sulaphat, on 2006-05-12 11:11:18, said:

One should use one's talents and ambition to sell goods and services which provide real, proven benefit and meet real needs and are not being sold simply for the sake of selling something.

Then all salespeople would be out of a job!

[retire_young2005]

Sulaphat, on 2006-05-11 18:11:18, said:

Any time someone says that in order for something to work or for one to succeed one must "believe", what they are really asking you to do is to suspend common sense and reason. MLMs exhort their distributors to "believe" all to frequently and too fervently for my taste. This "missionary" sales approach is used when the sales force is unsophisticated and when the product or service being sold is generally uncompetitive on price or features.

Listening to motivational tapes is a waste of time, especially when they are provided by your employer, upstream, etc.

Sales is a fantastic career and potentially the most rewarding and remunerative.

I disagree. MLMs do exhort belief, you need to see past that and really learn the point behind it. I really don't want to re-write everything but here is a summary. Belief goes far bound what your saying. Belief in oneself is the what takes someone to success. Believing that they can be successful, doing what successful people do, and becoming sucessful works.

Self help and training tapes work. I'm a pure example of it and many of the people I work with are also.

One thing that I do agree with you on is that sales is a fantastic career.

[Sulaphat]

retire_young2005, on 2006-05-12 08:26:56, said:

Sulaphat, on 2006-05-11 18:11:18, said:

Any time someone says that in order for something to work or for one to succeed one must "believe", what they are really asking you to do is to suspend common sense and reason. MLMs exhort their distributors to "believe" all to frequently and too fervently for my taste. This "missionary" sales approach is used when the sales force is unsophisticated and when the product or service being sold is generally uncompetitive on price or features.

Listening to motivational tapes is a waste of time, especially when they are provided by your employer, upstream, etc.

Sales is a fantastic career and potentially the most rewarding and remunerative.

I disagree. MLMs do exhort belief, you need to see past that and really learn the point behind it. I really don't want to re-write everything but here is a summary. Belief goes far bound what your saying. Belief in oneself is the what takes someone to success. Believing that they can be successful, doing what successful people do, and becoming sucessful works.

Self help and training tapes work. I'm a pure example of it and many of the people I work with are also.

One thing that I do agree with you on is that sales is a fantastic career.

I agree that one must believe in one's abilities and have self-esteem in order to be successful. No question about that and it is not limited to "sales" as most would understand the concept. Everyone is a salesman or saleswoman every day of their life whether they realize it or not. I'm sure you know what I mean. But I am sceptical of any scheme or organization which requires constant reinforcement of that belief to the practical exclusion of any other aspect of the sales process or product and market knowledge.

[retire_young2005]

Quote

I agree that one must believe in one's abilities and have self-esteem in order to be successful. No question about that and it is not limited to "sales" as most would understand the concept. Everyone is a salesman or saleswoman every day of their life whether they realize it or not. I'm sure you know what I mean. But I am sceptical of any scheme or organization which requires constant reinforcement of that belief to the practical exclusion of any other aspect of the sales process or product and market knowledge.

You are right

I understand your point. I can give you my real life example on that. I have always heard the saying in one form or another believe, do, become. I have heard speakers speak on the subject many times. I believe this is the biggest problem in the industry (learning how to become successful) I even teach this subject.

But I failed when I began in MLM. Then one day I decided to do what ever it takes to be successful at it. This is where the audio training "The Strangest Secret" came in. I listend to that audio alot. I even played it when I slept. Finally something clicked and it was like a light builb went on inside and it happened for me. I moved from the belief stage to the doing stage. After that I became successful, I passed my full time job income and continue to move forward.

I can't comment for every company. But I teach sales, marketing, internet marketing and success mindedness to my sales team.

Edited by retire_young2005, 2006-05-12 10:02:48.

[Prakanong2005]

Mr Retire young

Sorry if English is not your first language but your basic spelling is appalling.

Anyway - classic piece of low life sales technique a la Timeshare, Holiday Club and MLM is to play on the FUD factor ie are you not part of the elite who can make it? or you will be missing out etc etc.

It might work with the uneducated few not able to see throught it but most people see it for what it is.

The fact that most of the money is made through downlines and not through direct sales shows it for what it is - a barely legal scam often sailing close to the wind.

Just like timeshares they have to move to markets where these scams are less regulated.

Just as an aside - I worked on a piece of software for MLM so know exactly how it works - probably more than you.

[Prakanong2005]

simon43, on 2006-05-11 10:03:47, said:

There are many ways to become successful and rich - and there are many ways which are less risky than the MLM business. For every successful MLM businessman/woman, I wonder how many other people there are who have followed the same path and lost everything....

Simon

I do not think many lose everything (some did when Cabouchon collapsed in the UK though) but many have not made anything like they were lead to believe they would and those that made something probably made min wage per hour put in (maybe a bit of an exaggeration but not much i bet).

Then if they do not make it the classic reasons are put forward

Did not work hard enough

Not the right kind of people

etc etc

Now this is absolute shite only trotted out to protect the shakey ego's of the marketeers and to keep the scam going

[retire_young2005]

Prakanong2005, on 2006-05-12 11:59:17, said:

Mr Retire young

Sorry if English is not your first language but your basic spelling is appalling.

Anyway - classic piece of low life sales technique a la Timeshare, Holiday Club and MLM is to play on the FUD factor ie are you not part of the elite who can make it? or you will be missing out etc etc.

It might work with the uneducated few not able to see throught it but most people see it for what it is.

The fact that most of the money is made through downlines and not through direct sales shows it for what it is - a barely legal scam often sailing close to the wind.

Just like timeshares they have to move to markets where these scams are less regulated.

Just as an aside - I worked on a piece of software for MLM so know exactly how it works - probably more than you.

Your disrespect, coming from someone that thinks he is educated is appalling.

Your comparisons are poor and not accurate. You would have to do a detailed comparision of each company for an accurate statement, which your is not.

I have done programming and worked with many programmers. That does not mean you know the business.