678 replies to this topic
Posted 2006-04-05 14:04:39
 Orion76, on 2006-04-05 12:47:44, said:
PeaceBlondie, on 2006-04-05 12:43:10, said:
Just curious - I never heard Mr. Khun Dr. Prime Minister CEO referred to as simply "Lieutenant Colonel" before. Especially by a General!
Is that an indication that the former chief-chief now ranks below a full colonel in the hierarchy of Thailand? Below a caretaker?
Pol Lt Col was his rank when he retired from the police, he has been refered to as Lt. Col many times.
Yes, the former, ex-caretaker, previous, interim Prime Minister has held quite a few titles... most of them rather amusingly ironic in nature.
"Lieutenant Colonel" for work in the law enforcement field yet resigns due mainly to the crime of corruption.
"Doctor" for receiving a PhD from a university in America yet possesses abilities in English that are surpassed by a typical Prathom 2 public school student.
Probably best if we just all referred to him by the title that he prefers himself, "Maew"
Posted 2006-04-05 14:09:56
ColPyat, on 2006-04-05 13:30:02, said: jezchesters, on 2006-04-05 13:13:58, said:
Colpyat - how many times does this have to be said?
This is not an American presidential style of democracy. The 'millions of people who were slapped in the face' did not vote for Thaksin. They voted for a Thai Rak Thai candidate in their consituency.
So, yes, their votes have counted. You can see this because TRT have won 461 out of the 500 available seats. The fact that the PM has resigned no more nullifies the peoples vote than when Tony Blair resigns as PM before the next election in the UK. Their respective parties will still remain in power.
Technically you may be right.
But in practical terms those people voted for Thaksin. And no, in this they do not misunderstand the Thai political systhem, as Thaksin is the man who holds the TRT party together. The party which is his brainchild, the party that he has founded. TRT many opposing and infighting fractions and swallowed small parties are held together by one man - Thaksin.
You can say it how many times you want, but this is reality. And generaly it reality that counts, and not theory and technicalities.
Please don't compare a developed nation such as the UK with Thailand. We are aeons away from the UK here in Thailand.
I agree with your sentiments regarding the comparison of democracies. However, the fact remains is that the policies (after all, we are talking politics here) the TRT voters voted for in their masses (30 baht healthcare, village loan systems etc) will still continue to be implemented, as that is what the people voted for. TRT as a party has a political mandate from the electorate, and will have a majority in government to be able to implement these policies.
I agree that TRT and Thaksin are synonymous in many people's minds, but so were Sharon and his Kadima party. After he went into a coma, people initially gave Kadima no chance during the recent elections as it was widely regarded that Sharon was Kadima - after all, he invented the party! When the election took place, people voted for policies and Kadima won the largest share of the vote under Ehud Olmert.
I guess what I am saying is that the election served two purposes: firstly as a referendum on Thaksin the man, and secondly as a way for Thai people to elect the party which would implement policies most beneficial to them. The victory was not convincing enough for Thaksin's position to be tenable, but still returned a government representative of the majority of voters.
Posted 2006-04-05 14:30:33
WilliamIV, on 2006-04-05 12:49:07, said: Obviously not all Upcountry folks are "Uneducated"
I am aware of a group of upcountry Students in Bangkok
- who IMHO are representative - who struggled to get home
to vote FOR TRT and Thaksin.
They had to Travel 5 hours each way and find the bus fare to do so.
They had to take time off from their poorly paid menial jobs ...
They cannot be regarded as Uneducated - they know Thaksin has faults
but they consider him good for Thailand.
Thaksin may have offended Human Rights - but he quashed the Drug Barrons - he might have stepped on peoples toes and given Projects to Cronnies - which the Opposition would also do if in power - but Thaksin got things DONE
[Speculations edited out. Unfortunately we cannot tolerate this type of speculations. Please accept this. Thank you. /Meadish]
Meadish - I am ever ready to accept your Moderation - but to say I was Speculating is Completely wrong - in fact my Original post said it would be wrong to do so.
I merely quoted Thaksin himself - the one condition under which he would resign.
I can understand you deleting what Thaksin said - but do not distort your reason - there was no speculation in my post.
Posted 2006-04-05 14:31:12
...and now he is taking a leave, handing over to Chidchai...
Posted 2006-04-05 14:34:53
The big question is will Thailand be better off when Thaksin goes?
I doubt it quite frankly.
Until such time as core problems are resolved Thailand is unlikely to benefit no matter who becomes PM.
Endemic corruption, transparency in govt, a reformed legal system infrastructure problems, polarities in income, education issues etc all need to be addressed asap if Thailand is to develop and rid itself of its third world image.
Posted 2006-04-05 14:49:49
A billionaire will be less corrupt than a bankrupt media mogul or a professional academic that's never held a real job.
If there is a re-election TRT will still kick the opposition's butt.
Posted 2006-04-05 14:53:12
sriracha john, on 2006-04-05 14:04:39, said: Orion76, on 2006-04-05 12:47:44, said:
PeaceBlondie, on 2006-04-05 12:43:10, said:
Just curious - I never heard Mr. Khun Dr. Prime Minister CEO referred to as simply "Lieutenant Colonel" before. Especially by a General!
Is that an indication that the former chief-chief now ranks below a full colonel in the hierarchy of Thailand? Below a caretaker?
Pol Lt Col was his rank when he retired from the police, he has been refered to as Lt. Col many times.
Yes, the former, ex-caretaker, previous, interim Prime Minister has held quite a few titles... most of them rather amusingly ironic in nature.
"Lieutenant Colonel" for work in the law enforcement field yet resigns due mainly to the crime of corruption.
"Doctor" for receiving a PhD from a university in America yet possesses abilities in English that are surpassed by a typical Prathom 2 public school student.
Probably best if we just all referred to him by the title that he prefers himself, "Maew"
A very small issue at best considering all that is going on, but I have found Dr. Thaksin's English language abilities to be quite a bit better than you make it out to be. When he is at rest, not worrying about what he should or should not say and how it would be interpreted or misinterpreted, his English is easily understood and he understands everything said. I only wish my Thai was that good!
Posted 2006-04-05 14:57:36
Believe it or not they actually have radio and TV up in Issarn now. Very few people in the country do not have access to information anymore. The main reason the majority of Thais prefer TRT is because of what TRT is actually doing for them rather than any failure of access to information.
LOL ... again you have missed current events .... the TV and Radio stations were towing the Government line all over the country. There were no broadcasts of the PAD rallies etc. There was almost 0 mention of the allegations against Thaksin. The broadcast media ((and until very recently the print media)) have been censored both from outside and from self-censorship due to the lawsuits brought against them by the Gov.
[
[/quote]
[/quote]
Very strange, as we watch Thai TV live on the internet here in Australia and my Thai wife discussed Thai current events with her family up in Issarn during this alleged political black out period. The family up in Issarn seemed to be up with the news from what I could tell from the wifes feedback. Perhaps we are not subjected to the same political black outs as your Thai family is.
However I would repeat what I have said earlier,-- for the up country Thais who make up the majority of the voting public, it is not some debatable technical point of law re corruption that influences their vote, but rather the candidates actual performance in serving those who put him in power.
For the majority of Thai voters (who happen to be rural people) Thaksin and TRT is judged on physical results on the ground in the local community rather than intellectual debates over points of law. People in village #2 up in the boon docks dont care about the outcome of some court case re telco sales, but they they do care about a new reservoir to provide water during the dry season.
The corruption allegations may or may not be true. Thais accept that just about all politicians are corrupt and so it is not a big factor in deciding votes. What does influence the voters is how the politicans serve the public while in office. The simple truth is that the TRT under Thaskin has served the majority of voters better than any other party and better than any other party has promised to do.
The people have spoken, And they have spoken in elections in the past also. The majority of voters in Thailand want TRT. The law suits and allegations are a side issue to most Thai voters. They vote on what a politican can deliver to them rather than what bad things someone else says he might have done.
If the opposition wants to get into power it needs to start serving the majority of voters who might put them into power instead of pandering to a minority of intellectuals in the city who want to seize power through the back door via civil unrest. Thailand has a long history of coups and dictaters brought into power by civil unrest . That is not the way things are supposed to work in a democracy.
TRT will again no doubt win the next election simply because it does the most for the greatest number of voters. The opposition parties need to open their eyes and see that there is a whole country out there in Thailand outside of Bangkok. Thaksin did and it gave TRT a lead that the others will take a long time to catch up to. The biggest stumbling block to their PAD ideal and its supporters is democracy. Once they embrace democracy, they can start to attack corruption, but not before.
Posted 2006-04-05 14:58:02
English skills...... reality Check, this is Thailand.
Posted 2006-04-05 14:58:10
New government urged to carry on with mega-projects
The Director-General of the Government Savings Bank, Mr. Goanpot Asvinvichit (กรพจน์ อัศวินวิจิตร), has requested the new government to carry on with the mega-projects that are benefcial to Thailand as many foreign investors still want to invest in them.
He indicated that the new government would use some time to consider all the mega-projects that have been slowed down. He said the new government should continue with the essential projects.
He stated that the current situation will have no impact on the confidence of the investors. He said they have a clear view that the situation in Thailand has returned to normal.
Mr. Goanpot disclosed that the Board of Investment of Thailand has reported that the investment has not declined but has rather improved, as can be seen from the constant increase of interest rates.
Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 05 April 2006
Posted 2006-04-05 15:04:49
Thaible, on 2006-04-05 14:49:49, said: A billionaire will be less corrupt than a bankrupt media mogul or a professional academic that's never held a real job.
That was what most Thais believes initially, but, Toxin the openly-known-tax-evading-self-profit-corrupted-billionaire-fearless-PM had proven otherwise.
If there is a re-election TRT will still kick the opposition's butt.
I have to agree with that...and probably TRT would score even more votes without their openly-known-tax-evading-self-profit-corrupted-billionaire-fearless-leader.
Posted 2006-04-05 15:07:49
TRT = Thais love Thais
What sort of name for a political party is that ?
People's Alliance for Democracy - now that sounds better !
TRT really means 'Thaksin Rips-off Thais' !
Without doubt Thai political consciousness has changed.
With that, the country will change.
The Thais have found a political voice.
The 'Old Guard' days are numbered.
The new young well educated technocrat's time has arrived.
What this will mean for 'Farang' I really don't know ?
Edited by Hermano Lobo, 2006-04-05 15:09:43.
Posted 2006-04-05 15:11:01
PM Thaksin assigns DPM Chitchai to take care of his duties as he would like to rest for awhile
Deputy Minister of Public Health Anutin Charnvirakul (อนุทิน ชาญวีรกุล) revealed that during the Cabinet meeting, caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said he would like to rest for awhile.
The caretaker premier has assigned Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Minister Chitchai Wannasathit to administrate the country and to be the chairperson of the Cabinet meeting. Dr. Thaksin said he would only join the meeting if certain urgent issues arise. However, Dr. Thaksin has reiterated to all ministers to perform their duties at the utmost until the last day of the present government’s administration.
The caretaker Prime Minister indicated that he has perform all his tasks as he has promised and has urged all the parties to keep their promises as well.
Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 05 April 2006
Posted 2006-04-05 15:14:02
hi'
yesterday evening for the first time since crisis began, they talked about on the news in France ...
to say the prime minister of Thailand mr T Chinawatra resigned and won't be part of the next government, explaining that he was in a trouble because of high level corruption and they also show the mass of protesters in the street in BKK!
just once in all this time, as a simple news!
wil he step off for good, it's still a remaining question, what kind of role will he play?
on the dark side, in the shade and still directing the new pm as a puppet?
who knows?
wait and see 
francois
Posted 2006-04-05 15:14:37
otherstuff1957, on 2006-04-05 13:10:02, said: otherstuff1957, on 2006-04-05 12:54:30, said:
Lt. Colonel? That must be a typo. He's a Lt. General - a very high rank.
Oops - I just double checked and he was a Lt. Colonel. I could have sworn I read that he was a Lt. General, but he wasn't. Anyway, Lt. Colonel, Caretaker PM, Primier, RachaMontri, whatever; he's still going to be in power behind the scenes.
The Thai National News Bureau has refered to Thaksin as Lt General Thaksin in many of their press releases so that is probably where you got that.
Posted 2006-04-05 15:18:06
The People's Alliance insists on holding a rally on April 7th
Leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) have insisted on holding a grand-scale rally on April 7th while giving caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra until the end of this month to withdraw from the position.
PAD core leaders including media firebrand Sondhi Limthongkul, Major General Chamlong Srimuang and Mr. Pipob Thongchai met last night following Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's announcement that he would not accept prime ministerial post when the House convenes next month. They agreed in the meeting that if Police Lt.-Col. Thaksin still assumes the caretaker's responsibilities after March 31st, they will call a big rally to protest the Prime Minister. The PAD also insists on organizing a major demonstration on April 7th as earlier scheduled although the demonstration on April 6th will be called off as a tribute to His Majesty the King.
As for the Dharma Army led by Major General Chamlong which is staging a protest in front of the Government House, they dispersed this morning but confirmed they will continue checking Pol. Lt-Gen Thaksin within legal framework. And if the latter is found exploiting the position to push forward his policy campaign or using proxies to carry out the policy, the Dharma Army will renew the protest.
Mr. Pipob Thongchai, another leader in the PAD, hailed Pol Lt-Col Thaksin's move as a good sign but said the latter still fails to unveil a political reform which is the major target of the demonstrators.
Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 05 April 2006
Posted 2006-04-05 15:19:54
francois, on 2006-04-05 15:14:02, said: wil he step off for good, it's still a remaining question, what kind of role will he play?
on the dark side, in the shade and still directing the new pm as a puppet?
who knows?
Someone will have to fund TRT's next election campaign and that someone will probably want some return on his investment
Posted 2006-04-05 15:20:35
Mr. Somsak admits Mr. Banharn earlier knew the decision of caretaker premier to resign from his post
Chart Thai Party Deputy Leader Somsak Prissana-nantakul (สมศักดิ์ ปริศนานันทกุล) stated that Chart Thai Party leader Banharn Silapa-archa (บรรหาร ศิลปอาชา) earlier acknowledged that caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra will make an announcement for not accepting the premier post since both leaders had a conversation via telephone earlier.
Mr. Somsak has praised Pol. Lt. Gen. Thaksin for making this decision so as to end the social conflicts. He revealed that Dr. Thaksin and Mr. Banharn had a phone conversation on the 4th of April. Hence, his party leader already knew that such announcement would be made.
He insisted that there are no conflicts in the concept of the three opposition parties and said that there will be a joint meeting between them today. The meeting would analyze the political situation.
He confirmed that the Chart Thai Party will not send its candidates for the re-election unless the constitutional amendment is completed.
Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 05 April 2006
Posted 2006-04-05 15:38:59
Md. Surapong insists PM Thaksin is taking a break and not resigning yet
The Government Spokesperson, Md. Surapong Suebwonglee (สุรพงษ์ สืบวงศ์ลี), has stressed that Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has not yet resign from the post, as he is only taking a break from politics.
Md. Surapong said the Prime Minister has performed his duties in accordance with the statement he made at a television program on April 3rd. He said that Pol. Lt. Gen. Thaksin would like to safeguard national unity, and the Opposition has also accepted his decision without any condition. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the People’s Alliance for Democracy to analyze their actions. Md. Surapong stated that it is up to the Election Commission whether or not it would be able to assemble 500 MPs after April 23rd, and whether the parliamentary meeting will be able to take place in accordance with the constitution.
Concerning the Prime Minister’s suggestion to establish the national government, the Government Spokesperson said the government has to monitor how the social issues will be dealt with. Furthermore, if all parties consent with the idea, the government is also ready to implement it.
Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 05 April 2006
Posted 2006-04-05 15:42:50
Quote Maybe TRT give Mr.T a "Senior Minister" post???
A slightly tongue-in-cheek comment I reckon, but I think it's actually a good idea. Thaksin would make a good Ambassador for Thailand as he has good standing in the west with Bush, Blair, the EU etc.
Posted 2006-04-05 21:04:50
WOOOOWWWW....
More than 10.400 views in some 24+ hours since topic started....  
LaoPo
Edited by LaoPo, 2006-04-05 21:06:09.
Posted 2006-04-05 21:45:06
mbkudu, on 2006-04-05 10:24:59, said: Something I've said here for a long time and usually got shot down quickly for it. Many expats here are new here and just don't quite understand how truly f@#$ed up things were in Thailand before Thaksin was in office. I think he is better off now and he should wash his hands of all the whining bulls#itters who wanted him in so badly and now have turned on him. Chok dee Thailand, you're going to need it.
Nuggets of truth in the above statement. Taksin is just one in a long line of corrupt politicians who run the country for their own personal enrichment. Although never overtly colonized in the same sense as Burma or India or Vietnam, many have described Thailand as having been internally colonized from within, with the ruling parties modeling their rule on European colonial models. For some reason the profits, based upon agricultural exports, just keep finding a way out of the country. Even profits from modern industries like telecommunications find their way out of the country. All the while a new generation of foreign sahibs and memsahibs enjoy a lifestyle unobtainable in their home countries. But instead of working in the sea trade, they tend to work in IT. Orwell's Burma Days is not that far removed from the life of many of the posters here.
As the poster above notes, Taksin is better off now. I mean jeez, he just sold his company at a huge freaking profit, tax free mind you, and raised the bar for his successor to equal that feat. Alas, he most certainly will wash his hands of the whiners and take the bulk of his ill gotten profits elsewhere.
The whiners fail to recognize that it is the system that is flawed and not the person of Taksin, although one might argue he is the worst since Thanom. But yes, as the poster noted, but for perhaps differing reasons, Thailand will need lots of chok dee, especially after the doggy doo doo really hits the fan upon the inevitable song kheeun sawaan at which point we may see a mass exodus the this younger generation of ex-pats.
Posted 2006-04-05 22:00:34
Johpa, on 2006-04-05 23:45:06, said: The whiners fail to recognize that it is the system that is flawed and not the person of Taksin, although one might argue he is the worst since Thanom. But yes, as the poster noted, but for perhaps differing reasons, Thailand will need lots of chok dee, especially after the doggy doo doo really hits the fan upon the inevitable song kheeun sawaan at which point we may see a mass exodus the this younger generation of ex-pats.
Amen.
Posted 2006-04-05 22:03:37
Thaksin didn't personally bankroll all TRT's expenses - there were/are other major donors, too. He was simply controlling the way all of them worked together, and without him in charge they will most probably go separate ways and TRT will disintegrate. It might take a few months to see any clear signs, but it's rather inevitable.
>>>>>>>>
Out of 16 million people who voted for TRT how many were paid to vote? Some were paid directly, some were ordered by seniors or TRT canvassers, and some believed in the populist policies which are nothing more than vote buying on national scale - simple pork barrel politics - cheap healthcare, cheap loans, debt reduction - in exchange for a blank check to steal billions upon billions. That's how TRT voters described it themselves - he gave us a lot so we let him steal as much as he wants, we don't care about Shin. And the best part is it was their, people's money they were bought with in the first place.
There should be a dedicated thread to TRT's vote buying machine.
Once you deduct all these "bought" votes there will be very few left, much less than 16 mil, and that's why Thaksin's "victory" looks very very hollow in the face of millions of no votes cast in good conscience.
>>>>>>>>
As it was pointed earlier, there's a difference between what is legal and wht is real here in Thailand. Legally no one voted for Thaksin, but in reality they did. Equally votes of poor farmers have as much weight as educated Bangkokians, but in reality they don't, and while legally 16 mil is a victory, in reality it's not, and that's why Thaksin is leaving for the UK tonight instead of toasting his success.
Old Lee of Singapore was once talkin on the issues of Thai democracy. He said that to have a working democracy you need strong middle class voters able to think for themselves, and then he rhetorically asked: "Do you have that in Thailand?"
He's no champion of democracy in any sense of a word but you can't deny he hit the nail on the head here. If unscrupulous leader can find the way to manipulate poor voters to serve his own ends rather than the country - what's that democracy for then?
Edited by Plus, 2006-04-05 22:07:14.
Posted 2006-04-05 22:28:07
Plus, on 2006-04-05 22:03:37, said: Thaksin didn't personally bankroll all TRT's expenses - there were/are other major donors, too. He was simply controlling the way all of them worked together, and without him in charge they will most probably go separate ways and TRT will disintegrate. It might take a few months to see any clear signs, but it's rather inevitable.
>>>>>>>>
Out of 16 million people who voted for TRT how many were paid to vote? Some were paid directly, some were ordered by seniors or TRT canvassers, and some believed in the populist policies which are nothing more than vote buying on national scale - simple pork barrel politics - cheap healthcare, cheap loans, debt reduction - in exchange for a blank check to steal billions upon billions. That's how TRT voters described it themselves - he gave us a lot so we let him steal as much as he wants, we don't care about Shin. And the best part is it was their, people's money they were bought with in the first place.
There should be a dedicated thread to TRT's vote buying machine.
Once you deduct all these "bought" votes there will be very few left, much less than 16 mil, and that's why Thaksin's "victory" looks very very hollow in the face of millions of no votes cast in good conscience.
>>>>>>>>
As it was pointed earlier, there's a difference between what is legal and wht is real here in Thailand. Legally no one voted for Thaksin, but in reality they did. Equally votes of poor farmers have as much weight as educated Bangkokians, but in reality they don't, and while legally 16 mil is a victory, in reality it's not, and that's why Thaksin is leaving for the UK tonight instead of toasting his success.
Old Lee of Singapore was once talkin on the issues of Thai democracy. He said that to have a working democracy you need strong middle class voters able to think for themselves, and then he rhetorically asked: "Do you have that in Thailand?"
He's no champion of democracy in any sense of a word but you can't deny he hit the nail on the head here. If unscrupulous leader can find the way to manipulate poor voters to serve his own ends rather than the country - what's that democracy for then?
actually agree almost all, just I would replace the middle class with middle educated. i know a lot "poor" people in farangistan who are well educated and think a lot about the votes, as well I know a lot middle class (in matters of money) in farangistan who always vote the same whatever happens.
It is more a education than a money thing.
|
|
