7 replies to this topic

[george]

Two WWII 'human torpedoes' believed to be lying off Phuket

PHUKET: -- Marine-supply firm told to seek UK government's permission to search for daring WWII-era underwater Chariots

A Phuket marine-supply company is seeking permission to salvage what it believes are two British "human torpedoes" that have been lying in the sea near Phuket since World War II, the governor of Phuket said yesterday.

Governor Udomsak Asavarangura said East Marine SBS had sent a letter requesting permission to salvage the two human torpedoes, or Chariots, believed to belong to the British Royal Navy.

The Chariots sank near Dok Mai Island during a mission.

However, authorities in Phuket would first like East Marine to get British government confirmation that the two vessels really belonged to the British Royal Navy. "We need to have the evidence first, otherwise it could create problems for us later if the torpedoes are found to belong to another country," Udomsak said.

Manned torpedoes were secret naval weapons commissioned during World War II.

The British versions were electrically propelled mini-submarines with two crewmen equipped with diving suits riding astride.

They steered the vessel at slow speed to the enemy ship.

A detachable warhead was then used as a limpet mine after which the crew rode the "torpedo" away.

The device was carried by another vessel, usually a normal submarine, and launched near the target. The idea was successfully applied by the Italian navy early in World War II and then copied by the British when they discovered the Italian operations.

Some records say the British submarine Trenchant carried two Mk-2 Chariots for a mission at Phuket harbour on October 27-28, 1944.

Udomsak said the salvaging of the Chariots was related to national security, the environment and archaeology, and hence the province had to first consult several agencies, such as the Fine Arts Department, the National Resources and Environment Ministry and the Harbour Department.

The Chariots are archaeological finds under the authority of Thai Fine Arts Department, as they have been submerged in Thai waters for more than 60 years, Udomsak said.

"We also have to study the environmental effects," he said. "We still need information about how deep the naval weapons are under the water and how thick is the soil burying them."

  Anat Bumroongwong, Director of the 15th Regional Fine Arts Office, Phuket, said people in Phuket had known about the submerged weapons "for a long time" but they had never been investigated by the authorities. He said Thai and UK authorities should work together to identify the nationality of the weapons.

He said if it could be proved that they were British Chariots, the

UK would have a right to retrieve them.

Anat added there were also "several objects" belonging to the Japanese submerged in Thai waters from World War II.

--The Nation 2006-05-06

[English Noodles]

Interesting read.

Edited by English Noodles, 2006-05-06 01:23:13.

[astral]

george, on 2006-05-06 00:43:19, said:

A detachable warhead was then used as a limpet mine after which the crew rode the "torpedo" away.

If the warhead is still in tact it will be highly unstable after 60+ years of corrosion.

Given Thailand's safety record in other areas, this could be an interesting topic to watch...

Edited by astral, 2006-05-07 13:50:49.

[Johpa]

From Wikipedia:

"October 27-28: The British submarine Trenchant carried two Mk 2 Chariots (nicknamed "Tiny" and "Slasher") to an attack on Phuket harbor in Thailand. They were released six miles out from the harbor. The targets were two Italian liners, the Sumatra and the Volpi, each approx 5000 tons. Six hours later, for the only time, the British charioteers rode back to their mothership. On the return journey the Trenchant jettisoned the chariots so it could travel faster, after receiving a report of a Japanese MTB in the area. The Trenchant carried the four charioteers back to Trincomalee. No chariot operations in combat in any war are certainly known of after this."

As noted they would not have had their charges attached so no danger there.  I would imagine that if they could be safely recovered and restored that they would fetch a nice price from collectors of militaria or from  other related history geeks, not to mention a serious bid from the Imperial War Museum in London.

[Maejo Man]

Most of these were lost or jettisoned during operations, and these two, depending on condition, would be a prize for any military museum. Later versions were featured in the 50's film  "Above us the waves"



 240px_Chariot_cdba2_seabed.jpg   9.35K   33 downloads

Edited by Maejo Man, 2006-05-07 22:15:57.

[Scott]

They might want to really make sure those warheads aren't attached.  Just assuming that they aren't isn't sufficient!!  I once assumed I turned off the correct electrical braker!  I learned to double check things after that.

[lampard10]

Scott, on 2006-05-08 11:18:51, said:

They might want to really make sure those warheads aren't attached.  Just assuming that they aren't isn't sufficient!!  I once assumed I turned off the correct electrical braker!  I learned to double check things after that.

Just cut the red wire






































Sorry .......blue wire

[kurgen]

lampard10, on 2006-05-08 12:31:07, said:

Scott, on 2006-05-08 11:18:51, said:

They might want to really make sure those warheads aren't attached.  Just assuming that they aren't isn't sufficient!!  I once assumed I turned off the correct electrical braker!  I learned to double check things after that.

Just cut the pink wire yorky






































Sorry .......blue wire