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[Soon2BXpat33]

krismat89, on 2006-09-28 04:02:33, said:

jdinasia, on 2006-09-28 14:27:13, said:

Soon2BXpat33, on 2006-09-28 06:40:51, said:

What if I have a criminal record, then I can never become a PR of Thailand? Will it follow me? Will I become a sub-standard citizen in Thailand like they treat me in the US? I havn't murdered or raped anyone but I would never get a "certificate of NO criminal record". Does PR approval depend on the crimes and the length of time they were commited?

Part of the reason I want to rid myself of the US and its Government is because of the lifelong conviction and treatment by the US Government. Getting a job or pursuing a career, owning or possessing a firearm and overall view by Goverment and society as a whole because of some mistakes and indescretions I made when I was 18/19yo.

Due to felony convictions in the USA you will NOT be able to get a VISA to Thailand at all <to the best of my knowledge>

have a conviction, forget it! A friend tried and shown the door (UK friend).

What? Well for starters I intend to just visit Thailand in December for a few weeks. The ticket is already bought. So a 30 Day tourist stamp shouldnt be a problem upon Arrival...? They cant possibly check the criminal record of everyone who gets off a plane in Thailand everyday. BUT as far as any type of Visa with an extended stay, you are saying those go under a scrutiny check?
Well my criminal record dates back to 1992/93 as far as a "conviction" goes. Although Im going through channels of getting those convictions removed. Hmmm wow.. I welcome anyone elses comments on the criminal record issue.

[skippybangkok]

krismat89, on 2006-09-28 15:06:32, said:

Yes, you must live in Thailand have a continuous Non B Immigrant visa for at least 3 years, BUT please remember that some have held these visa for 10 or more years so the competition is very high.

Not many of the quota's were filled. So not muh competition ??

[thaigene2]

This post is very helpful. I have 2 questions.

First, how 'well' does the applicant need to speak Thai? I can speak enough to make myself understood and generally understand about 60% of what is said but would really struggle through an interview. I cannot read Thai either. Lived here 5 + years (yes I know it should be better by now). Employed the whole time. Does this mean auto-rejection?

Second, I'm married to a Thai (thus the silly Thai soap operas where I learned most of the Thai I know), so why is PR better than an O Visa? Aren't I entitled to live here year on year under an O Visa (even though needing to apply each year)?

Grateful for advice..

TG2

[camerata]

thaigene2, on 2006-09-30 18:22:04, said:

First, how 'well' does the applicant need to speak Thai? I can speak enough to make myself understood and generally understand about 60% of what is said but would really struggle through an interview. I cannot read Thai either. Lived here 5 + years (yes I know it should be better by now). Employed the whole time. Does this mean auto-rejection?

The interview is mostly about the documents you submitted and questions about yourself, such as "What religion are you?" I don't think there is any requirement that you speak Thai, although it might help to try. The Thai test is written down but they will read the questions for you and you can point at the answers. Only 10 questions and it's multiple choice. The introduction you have to give on camera isn't very long and you can prepare so that you just recite from memory. I doubt you'll be rejected for not scoring well.

Quote

Second, I'm married to a Thai (thus the silly Thai soap operas where I learned most of the Thai I know), so why is PR better than an O Visa? Aren't I entitled to live here year on year under an O Visa (even though needing to apply each year)?

What happens if you lose your job? Can you stay indefinitely on an O visa with no job? You have the right to buy a condo with PR and there are other advantages.

[skippybangkok]

Learning to read is not as difficult as it looks. I have alot of work, and no time for "school", so I picked up a small book which had every letter of the thai alphabet. Might take u one month to remember each letter.

After that, used to decypher the road signs and road based adverts in traffic jams...... you speed picks up over time

If you can understand verbal thai, reading should be quite easy.

Edited by skippybangkok, 2006-10-01 01:52:56.

[trajan]

camerata, on 2006-09-30 19:31:21, said:

You have the right to buy a condo with PR and there are other advantages.

I believe anyone can buy a condo, but with a PR, you don't need to prove inward remittance of foreign currency to purchase a condo...you can use your own good ol' Baht.....

[krismat89]

skippybangkok, on 2006-09-30 00:27:16, said:

krismat89, on 2006-09-28 15:06:32, said:

Yes, you must live in Thailand have a continuous Non B Immigrant visa for at least 3 years, BUT please remember that some have held these visa for 10 or more years so the competition is very high.

Not many of the quota's were filled. So not muh competition ??

er no, many applied but were rejected along the way.The number you see is the number who actually managed to complete the process - please remember that it takes almost 9 months to get all the paperwork, interview, recall etc etc.......many stumble on the tax payments !!!!!

[naomisri]

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

I am supported by my husband who is Thai and earns enough to qualify for the salary requirements and we have a daughter together. I just wondered whether anyone had any knowledge of this happening as I have always heard how PR depends on your salary/tax contributions.

Obviously the advantage for me would be the ability to stay here as a seperate entity from my husband - should the need ever arise (heaven forbid...)

[Fore Man]

I'd like to thank Camerata for his tremendously helpful post. I have lived in LOS continuously on my original one-year retirement visa plus two annual extensions. I speak and read Thai reasonably well and can get tons of letters written by influential Thais---ex-Thai ambassadors, retired Army generals, retired Immigration generals, professors and doctors etc. I belong to the Rotary Club here. I have a wonderfully supportive and popular Thai wife with lots of good connections. We own a big estate-style home in CM worth THB 25M. I support my own nuclear family including putting a stepdaughter all the way through university and graduate school. I support my wife's parents and make substantial contributions to the support of various nieces in low income family situations. I am in essence the patriachal 'loong' for this fine clan of northern Thai people. My wife and I have enriched their lives, will continue to do so, and are pleased to be able to help.

BUT, I have never had a work permit nor ever earned money in Thailand. I receive all of my income via US pensions and salaries earned by telecommuting with a US corporation that does not do business in Thailand. I plan to remain here the rest of my life (am 60 now). After my full retirement from work, there will be multiple pension streams and a comfortable monetary portfolio to draw from. I would like to obtain a PR primarily because it fully legitimizes me in Thai society, stops me from having to go every year for the retirement visa extension, and (I trust) would protect me against the vagaries of future visa regulation changes that could possibly result in having to become undomiciled and being forced out of Thailand when I am really old and senile and have no other place to go so late in life...a time when we all cherish and need stability.

The question and bottom line: can I apply for a PR using humanitarian grounds with any chance of success? I'd bet there are many older retirees living here, with ample assets, knowledge and appreciation for Thai language and customs, and who have a wide circle of Thai acquaintances who would write letters in their favor. These same folks, like me, would also prefer to end the serial retirement visa renewals and live a more stable, assured life in Thailand. Can someone who has enough experience with the PR system please answer. Many thanks for the fine work in the forum.

[camerata]

skyman, on 2006-10-03 16:58:39, said:

The question and bottom line: can I apply for a PR using humanitarian grounds with any chance of success?

I don't know the answer but I think you would have a good chance once you have the pensions. I'm not sure how Immigration would react if your income is derived from working in Thailand and you don't have a work permit or pay taxes here.

[camerata]

naomisri, on 2006-10-02 23:46:55, said:

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

In this case I would go down to Bangkok Immigration and ask them. You have nothing to lose, really, and they are the ones who'd know.

[Arkady]

camerata, on 2006-10-03 17:16:52, said:

naomisri, on 2006-10-02 23:46:55, said:

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

In this case I would go down to Bangkok Immigration and ask them. You have nothing to lose, really, and they are the ones who'd know.

From my understanding nearly all of the residence certificates are granted based on the business quota. That means that you have to have three continuous years of working for a Thai incorporated company that pays Thai tax as well as paying Thai tax yourself. I think there is a special category for former diplomats who wish to retire here after being posted here for at least three years and I knew of one guy from the French Embassy who did that. I think working for a respected NGO should qualify but the govt mainly just tolerates NGOs. I can't see what category Immigration could put people into who have been here supporting Thai family etc and there would be a suspicion that they have been working in Thailand without paying tax which would not help their case. The case of the telecommuter above would definitely be considered by the Thai authorities as working illegally without a work permit and not paying tax and he might end up being fined and deported for his pains, if he applied for PR and disclosed all the details. They consider where the work is done not the location of the employer.

Some posters have raised the quota of 100 a year for each nationality. This is only an issue for Chinese and Indians as far as I know. The year I applied, only about 40-50 Brits and Americans applied respectively and other Western nationals were less. I don't think any Western nationality has ever hit the quota. It is a big hassle to apply and most of the people who are qualified can't be bothered as they expect always to have a work permit while they are here or to get a retirement visa later. Many of those who are interested are not qualified.

Re work permits one big advantage is that you no longer have to apply to Immigration which imposes a lot of the onerous conditions like the requirement for four Thai employees for every foreigner. The Labour Ministry is fairly relaxed with PRs as they seem to take the obvious view that some one who has been approved as a PR should be entitled to earn a living. In any case people who are only qualified to do a low level job that can easily be done by a Thai would have difficult getting PR in the first place. As long as your employer's company papers are in order and you are sensible in your description of your occupation (i.e. not bar owner, shop assistant, maker of traditional Thai musical instruments etc), you should be approved without hassle.

[sabaijai]

naomisri, on 2006-10-02 16:46:55, said:

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

I am supported by my husband who is Thai and earns enough to qualify for the salary requirements and we have a daughter together. I just wondered whether anyone had any knowledge of this happening as I have always heard how PR depends on your salary/tax contributions.

Obviously the advantage for me would be the ability to stay here as a seperate entity from my husband - should the need ever arise (heaven forbid...)

If your husband is Thai you can skip the PR process and apply for direct conferrance of Thai citizenship. The right to 'transfer nationality' (direct translation of the Thai) is reserved for male Thai citizens married to foreign women. I know several western women married to Thai men who obtained Thai citizenship this way.

[samran]

sabaijai, on 2006-10-03 17:30:27, said:

naomisri, on 2006-10-02 16:46:55, said:

Has anyone ever heard of someone being granted PR on the basis of being supported by their spouse - in Camerata's declaration doc - 2.3.1 Humanitarian reasons?

I am supported by my husband who is Thai and earns enough to qualify for the salary requirements and we have a daughter together. I just wondered whether anyone had any knowledge of this happening as I have always heard how PR depends on your salary/tax contributions.

Obviously the advantage for me would be the ability to stay here as a seperate entity from my husband - should the need ever arise (heaven forbid...)

If your husband is Thai you can skip the PR process and apply for direct conferrance of Thai citizenship. The right to 'transfer nationality' (direct translation of the Thai) is reserved for male Thai citizens married to foreign women. I know several western women married to Thai men who obtained Thai citizenship this way.

Do you know much about the process? SBK has been wondering about how it all works.

[naomisri]

I would love to know how they did it. SBK and I have been discussing it since the shake up. The problem for us seems to be neither of us are based in BKK and nobody here seems to have any idea how to do it.

My husband's friend is an immigration lawyer and indeed his Japanese wife got Thai citizenship. He told us to contact him when we were in a position to do it (I was on my first yearly extension at the time), but I wonder whether they take into consideration different levels of salary and therefore tax contribution if you're up-country.

Might be time to give him a call.

[chinadarling]

so even if you are a 'perminent resident' you still have to apply for an annual visa?
I find this part of Thailand so wierd. Why bother being a perminent resident? what does it get you?
191,000 baht is not pocket change adn can you not just get a non immmigrant visa instead?

[Arkady]

sabaijai, on 2006-09-28 14:45:18, said:

danone, on 2006-09-28 05:33:18, said:

Maizefarmer, on 2006-09-24 15:04:19, said:

Will current political events affect PR applications??

I would not have thought so, no link has been made by Gen Sonthi & Co. between what is effectively an internal Thai political matter and PR applicant policy.

Could be wrong, but on the face of it I can't see a relationship between the 2 matters.

Tim

I applied for PR when purachai was about to go. the interior ministry changed hands and changed hands again ... the whole PR process was on hold for over two years.

they did not redefine the rules, but it took time.

maybe the political situation has an influence. surely timewise, as the interior minister has to give his final signature. and who knows when we got a permanent interior minister again?

Good point, until there's an interior minister there can be no signing off on PR aps. I don't think it would be necessary that the interior minister be 'permanent', as surely an interim minister could sign as well.

I would not worry too much about this point. Of course, anything can happen but the interim interior minister is most likely to be a experienced bureaucrat and will probably approve the applications in an orderly manner according to the rules. In my case, Banharn had just been canned as PM and Interior Minister but the immigration bureaucrats still managed to get him to sign all the applications before he vacated his desk.

[Tywais]

chinadarling, on 2006-10-07 00:14:03, said:

so even if you are a 'perminent resident' you still have to apply for an annual visa?

No. You probably won't have to see immigration again except for a re-entry permit if you leave the country.

[fergus]

Arkady, on 2006-09-13 00:58:38, said:

I knew some one about 10 years ago who claimed his application was facilitated by a B300k deposit made in cash to the sister of a police general. He said it was a lot of trouble getting introduced to the right person and organising the gratuity, as they were very scared of foreigners blowing the whistle on them, but once it was done he only had two interviews of five minutes each and no requests for further documents. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story but it seems quite possible. However, I assume there is more competition amongst Chinese and Indian applicants as there are usually more than the country quota of 100 applicants, so they are more likely to look for ways to bribe their way in than farangs who never bang up against their country's quota.

For those going through the front door, which is most, testimonials from civil servants, specially senior policemen, are worth a lot more than those from businessmen, academics etc however prominent the latter may be. Apart from the police and of course Immigration itself the most useful would be senior officials from the Interior Ministry, Tourist Authority of Thailand, Labor Ministry, National Intelligence Agency. This because they sit on the committee for permance residence that decides on your application, assuming you were not turned down at Immigration without referral to the committee. I think the most important thing is working for a large company in Thailand with lots of paid up capital that pays a lot of tax. I have known people working for large firms get it without difficulty when their testimonials and evidence of contribution to Thai society looked weak to me. But these are critical if you work for a small company. If it is your own B2 million company, most of these are automatically rejected, so up your capital to at least B5 million before your apply and raise your own salary to at least B150k a month before your apply. You can always drop again afterwards.

In addition to the benefits already mentioned you are allowed to apply for a gun permit which I am not advocating anyone does but just so as you know. More importanly anything you normally need a work permit for e.g. opening a bank account, buying a car, you can do as a permanent resident without having to show a work permit.

All this about testimonials and bribes, personally I think it's a crock of shite. It's always I know someone who knows someone who did it. I got mine in the 2004 batch and didn't provide any testimonials or references, didn't show any contribution to thai society, and saw know obvious way of bribing anyone even if I wanted too.
My advice -- get the basic documents right and if you fit the criteria and you're not scum of the earth, you'll get it. Simple!

[fergus]

skippybangkok, on 2006-09-18 23:13:44, said:

Well, if you weren't a criminal before this process, you most likley will become one because of it.

1. AFPsite horrendously slow ( when it works of course , which is seldom )
2. There is some basic info on the cost of a finger print check, but not how to freaking do it from 5000 miles away
3. Embassy ( both consular and AFP ) pretty hopeless too ( very good at saying " we dont do it"- seems to be standard On-job-training when u get a job with the Govt. )

http://www.afp.gov.a..._history_checks

I got my fingerprints done at the local Thai police station and then posted them to Oz federal police. I then emailed the feds via the address on their web site and they were back to me next day with answers to questions and to say how it was all going. Hardest bit was getting the Oz currency money order. All worked in the end though.

Edited by fergus, 2006-10-09 16:30:42.

[Arkady]

Does any one have any information about applying for Thai citizenship? Camerata?

[skippybangkok]

fergus, on 2006-10-09 16:24:40, said:

skippybangkok, on 2006-09-18 23:13:44, said:

Well, if you weren't a criminal before this process, you most likley will become one because of it.

1. AFPsite horrendously slow ( when it works of course , which is seldom )
2. There is some basic info on the cost of a finger print check, but not how to freaking do it from 5000 miles away
3. Embassy ( both consular and AFP ) pretty hopeless too ( very good at saying " we dont do it"- seems to be standard On-job-training when u get a job with the Govt. )

http://www.afp.gov.a..._history_checks

I got my fingerprints done at the local Thai police station and then posted them to Oz federal police. I then emailed the feds via the address on their web site and they were back to me next day with answers to questions and to say how it was all going. Hardest bit was getting the Oz currency money order. All worked in the end though.

Cheers and Thanks. Got the prints and sent it to them. Will e-mail them and see what the status is like. thanks ( p.s which mail address did you use ? ). Oz Currency, did it through my mother ( they come in handy at times )

[camerata]

It's no problem paying for an overseas criminal record check with a bank cheque. I got mine at the Bangkok Bank branch near Sukhumvit Soi 49. It's fairly quiet there. Avoid the obnoxious staff at the Soi 12 branch at all costs.

[samran]

Arkady, on 2006-10-09 11:06:27, said:

Does any one have any information about applying for Thai citizenship? Camerata?

For a male applying:

If you go to the national police headquarters in Bangkok, across from central world plaza on Rama 1, and go to building 5, they can sort you out with the documentation.

The basics:

- assorted copies of your passport
- copies of any alien registrations
- photos
- house registration of the entire family
- marriage certificates translated into thai
- bank deposits of at least 80K
- 5 years as a permanent resident (from the day you receive the booklet)
- 3 years of tax returns prior to applying for citizenship
- history of charitable donations (no less than 5,000 baht). These donations should not simply be for the purposes of the citizenship application
- tax returns showing 30K per month salary ( if married to a Thai, or have children born here)
- tax returns showing 80K per month salary ( if not married to a Thai)
- current work permit (so they still want you to be working)
- letter from employer varifying that salary, position in the firm
- educational certificates, and those of all your family
- what I translate as copies of any land documents of your current residence
- ID cards of two Thai nationals who can support your character and citizenship application (who can also be available for interview at a later point)
- ability to sing the national anthem and the royal anthem


Various character assesments are made based on applicants history, criminal checks, etc as well as ability to speak and understand thai.

Interviews will aslo be held by the police HQ and the ministry of interior at various stages by the appointed committe.

The pricess takes up to three years. Three months at the police HQ and the rest of the time at the ministry of interior.

Anyway, that is just a summary, best to head down to building 5 at police HQ.

[Arkady]

samran, on 2006-10-12 21:12:05, said:

Arkady, on 2006-10-09 11:06:27, said:

Does any one have any information about applying for Thai citizenship? Camerata?

For a male applying:

If you go to the national police headquarters in Bangkok, across from central world plaza on Rama 1, and go to building 5, they can sort you out with the documentation.

The basics:

- assorted copies of your passport
- copies of any alien registrations
- photos
- house registration of the entire family
- marriage certificates translated into thai
- bank deposits of at least 80K
- 5 years as a permanent resident (from the day you receive the booklet)
- 3 years of tax returns prior to applying for citizenship
- history of charitable donations (no less than 5,000 baht). These donations should not simply be for the purposes of the citizenship application
- tax returns showing 30K per month salary ( if married to a Thai, or have children born here)
- tax returns showing 80K per month salary ( if not married to a Thai)
- current work permit (so they still want you to be working)
- letter from employer varifying that salary, position in the firm
- educational certificates, and those of all your family
- what I translate as copies of any land documents of your current residence
- ID cards of two Thai nationals who can support your character and citizenship application (who can also be available for interview at a later point)
- ability to sing the national anthem and the royal anthem


Various character assesments are made based on applicants history, criminal checks, etc as well as ability to speak and understand thai.

Interviews will aslo be held by the police HQ and the ministry of interior at various stages by the appointed committe.

The pricess takes up to three years. Three months at the police HQ and the rest of the time at the ministry of interior.

Anyway, that is just a summary, best to head down to building 5 at police HQ.

Thanks for the helpful post. For some one three years away from applying without Thai wife, do you know if you would need to show tax receipts to prove salary over B80,000 for the whole three years or just prove B80,000 salary at the time of application?

Has any one actually gone through the process and got any tips?