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[Siam Simon]

mrbojangles, on 2012-02-06 01:37:00, said:

trevorg, on 2012-02-06 01:01:36, said:

But how long can you rely on Scholes and Giggs?

How long can they rely on the ref helping them out. 4 pens in two games!!

The free kick awarded from the comical dive by Luiz near the end wasn't too helpful. The cracking strike by Mata would've won the game for Chelsea except for an equally cracking save by Calamity Dave.

[carmine]

mrbojangles, on 2012-02-06 01:37:00, said:

trevorg, on 2012-02-06 01:01:36, said:

But how long can you rely on Scholes and Giggs?

How long can they rely on the ref helping them out. 4 pens in two games!!

No no MrB they never get favouritism from the refs, they really don't. Even when the balls a meter over the line.  

Interesting how delighted red nose was after the game and how totally p*ssed off AVB was.   I'm delighted, it was the perfect result so thanks anyway.

Edited by carmine, 2012-02-06 08:42:10.

[alfieconn]

Today's tune

[carmine]

Howard really has been a great servant to the club.  

[smokie36]

carmine, on 2012-02-06 09:00:44, said:

Howard really has been a great servant to the club.  

Its that little glance towards the touchline as he points at the spot. A nice touch...

[MrRed]

The ABU'S are out in force today   ....no mention of the fine comeback when 3 nil down with 30 minutes to go and the 2 penalties that should of been in the first half? Ok they where debatable but out of 4 we had 2 given,i would say that is a fair ratio.

Chelsea where very fortunate to be 3 up and at the end where playing for time they should of had Ivanovic sent off also.

Just the facts boys. Good result under the circumstances and better than the bitters did there.

Edit; i think Howard Webb is a tosser and never gives United the rub.

Edited by MrRed, 2012-02-06 11:36:40.

[trevorg]

That was the best example of Sunday Morning pub football I've ever seen!

[SantiSuk]

MrRed, on 2012-02-06 11:33:41, said:

The ABU'S are out in force today   ....no mention of the fine comeback when 3 nil down with 30 minutes to go and the 2 penalties that should of been in the first half? Ok they where debatable but out of 4 we had 2 given,i would say that is a fair ratio.

Chelsea where very fortunate to be 3 up and at the end where playing for time they should of had Ivanovic sent off also.

Just the facts boys. Good result under the circumstances and better than the bitters did there.

Edit; i think Howard Webb is a tosser and never gives United the rub.

SAF is the new Arsene Wenger. Whinging about the ref in the first half when you have been gifted 2 penalties that never were in the second! Classic Wenger stuff.

This was surely the worst-refereed game this year. I've never been a fan of Web, though I do think he has good authority in highly-charged situations - too often the match is about him and not the players.

Yes Mr Red it was a great come-back notwithstanding!

[mrbojangles]

MrRed, on 2012-02-06 11:33:41, said:

Edit; i think Howard Webb is a tosser and never gives United the rub.

Albeit that comment was tongue in cheek. Just seen something here http://www.talksport...howard-webb?p=2 and it's actually Mike Dean who gives you slightly more penalties per game than Howard Webb.

Dean has officiated 29 times and given you 9 pens, an average 0.31 per game. Webb has officiated 30 times and given you 9, an average of 0.30 per game. So it looks like you have two of them on the payroll.

[smokie36]

mrbojangles, on 2012-02-08 00:16:10, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-06 11:33:41, said:

Edit; i think Howard Webb is a tosser and never gives United the rub.

Albeit that comment was tongue in cheek. Just seen something here http://www.talksport...howard-webb?p=2 and it's actually Mike Dean who gives you slightly more penalties per game than Howard Webb.

Dean has officiated 29 times and given you 9 pens, an average 0.31 per game. Webb has officiated 30 times and given you 9, an average of 0.30 per game. So it looks like you have two of them on the payroll.

Abrak has even got you hooked....

[Abrak]

mrbojangles, on 2012-02-08 00:16:10, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-06 11:33:41, said:

Edit; i think Howard Webb is a tosser and never gives United the rub.

Albeit that comment was tongue in cheek. Just seen something here http://www.talksport...howard-webb?p=2 and it's actually Mike Dean who gives you slightly more penalties per game than Howard Webb.

Dean has officiated 29 times and given you 9 pens, an average 0.31 per game. Webb has officiated 30 times and given you 9, an average of 0.30 per game. So it looks like you have two of them on the payroll.

Early in 2011 a referee awarded 36 red cards in one match which is double what both referees gave over the 59 games they refereed

[MrRed]

Abrak, on 2012-02-09 01:56:19, said:

mrbojangles, on 2012-02-08 00:16:10, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-06 11:33:41, said:

Edit; i think Howard Webb is a tosser and never gives United the rub.

Albeit that comment was tongue in cheek. Just seen something here http://www.talksport...howard-webb?p=2 and it's actually Mike Dean who gives you slightly more penalties per game than Howard Webb.

Dean has officiated 29 times and given you 9 pens, an average 0.31 per game. Webb has officiated 30 times and given you 9, an average of 0.30 per game. So it looks like you have two of them on the payroll.

Early in 2011 a referee awarded 36 red cards in one match which is double what both referees gave over the 59 games they refereed

Is it a quiz?

[Abrak]

MrRed, on 2012-02-09 09:44:27, said:

Abrak, on 2012-02-09 01:56:19, said:

mrbojangles, on 2012-02-08 00:16:10, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-06 11:33:41, said:

Edit; i think Howard Webb is a tosser and never gives United the rub.

Albeit that comment was tongue in cheek. Just seen something here http://www.talksport...howard-webb?p=2 and it's actually Mike Dean who gives you slightly more penalties per game than Howard Webb.

Dean has officiated 29 times and given you 9 pens, an average 0.31 per game. Webb has officiated 30 times and given you 9, an average of 0.30 per game. So it looks like you have two of them on the payroll.

Early in 2011 a referee awarded 36 red cards in one match which is double what both referees gave over the 59 games they refereed

Is it a quiz?

No not really.

But referees are paid relatively little, bias is relatively easy to ascertain and the statistics are available in huge detail to everyone.

In my opinion accusing referees of bias (which essentially means being crooked) as opposed to say getting decisions wrong is pretty tough on people who are not highly rewarded in the first place.

You can see extensive data here....

http://www.soccerbas...4&season_id=141

Where you need to be careful is that you need to understand that no team can be awarded say a penalty unless play is actually in the oppositions penalty area.

The other factors you have to bear in mind is that a player with possession of the ball is more likely to be fouled than a player that does not (in fact it is usually quite rare for a player nowhere near the ball to be fouled).

Finally I would point out that UTd's low average point score with United in matches refereed by Webb reflects the fact he tends to referee games where top sides are involved.

If you actually look at the stats you will find that refs, if they have a bias, it is a bias towards the clubs they think that others think they have a bias against

I mean it is hardly rocket science is it:? I actually find it incredibly boring that every top 6 manager has to claim they are persecuted by the refs. The actual evidence 'suggests' that the top sides receive a consistent bias by the refs. However, this is likely to simply to reflect possession and territorial advantage (I mean if say ManU spend 90% of their time in your penalty area dont claim that just because they have received twice as many penalties the ref is bias.)

[Sparkles]

Ryan Giggs has just signed another year contract with United ,no agent ,business as usual. In my opinion he is playing as well, if not better than last year,and that
"feathered " pass to Hernandez to score against Chelsea was typical of his calmness,experience and awareness.I hope Scholsey joins him. Young Tom Cleveley might be back for this weekend,love his energy. I see Michael Owen is still recovering from a thigh strain,how many months is a that? time is up for MO me thinks.

[Sparkles]

I did mean to add, and I am not obsesed with stats, but Giggs has the best "minutes played to assists" in the whole league if anyone should want to devalue his worth to United at this time.

[alfieconn]

Sparkles, on 2012-02-10 19:43:35, said:

Ryan Giggs has just signed another year contract with United ,no agent ,business as usual. In my opinion he is playing as well, if not better than last year,and that
"feathered " pass to Hernandez to score against Chelsea was typical of his calmness,experience and awareness.I hope Scholsey joins him. Young Tom Cleveley might be back for this weekend,love his energy. I see Michael Owen is still recovering from a thigh strain,how many months is a that? time is up for MO me thinks.

Young ! how old is he Sparks ? 17, 18,19 years of age.

[smokie36]

alfieconn, on 2012-02-11 00:09:37, said:

Sparkles, on 2012-02-10 19:43:35, said:

Ryan Giggs has just signed another year contract with United ,no agent ,business as usual. In my opinion he is playing as well, if not better than last year,and that
"feathered " pass to Hernandez to score against Chelsea was typical of his calmness,experience and awareness.I hope Scholsey joins him. Young Tom Cleveley might be back for this weekend,love his energy. I see Michael Owen is still recovering from a thigh strain,how many months is a that? time is up for MO me thinks.

Young ! how old is he Sparks ? 17, 18,19 years of age.

If you subtract his age from Giggsy's you arrive at that figure. Less deprecation....Abby will know..its probably in the business section.

[MrRed]

alfieconn, on 2012-02-11 00:09:37, said:

Sparkles, on 2012-02-10 19:43:35, said:

Ryan Giggs has just signed another year contract with United ,no agent ,business as usual. In my opinion he is playing as well, if not better than last year,and that
"feathered " pass to Hernandez to score against Chelsea was typical of his calmness,experience and awareness.I hope Scholsey joins him. Young Tom Cleveley might be back for this weekend,love his energy. I see Michael Owen is still recovering from a thigh strain,how many months is a that? time is up for MO me thinks.

Young ! how old is he Sparks ? 17, 18,19 years of age.

Young enough to have  a tremendous amount of improvement in him and young enough to play a part in United's season and England's Euro campaign. 22 years young!

[alfieconn]

MrRed, on 2012-02-11 10:10:25, said:

alfieconn, on 2012-02-11 00:09:37, said:

Sparkles, on 2012-02-10 19:43:35, said:

Ryan Giggs has just signed another year contract with United ,no agent ,business as usual. In my opinion he is playing as well, if not better than last year,and that
"feathered " pass to Hernandez to score against Chelsea was typical of his calmness,experience and awareness.I hope Scholsey joins him. Young Tom Cleveley might be back for this weekend,love his energy. I see Michael Owen is still recovering from a thigh strain,how many months is a that? time is up for MO me thinks.

Young ! how old is he Sparks ? 17, 18,19 years of age.

Young enough to have  a tremendous amount of improvement in him and young enough to play a part in United's season and England's Euro campaign. 22 years young!

Only play a part   but i thought he is the next world beater, should make the Euro squad as Wilshere (who is young ) probaly wont be fit.

[MrRed]

Suarez what a first class cun_t

[alfieconn]

MrRed, on 2012-02-12 00:38:40, said:

Suarez what a first class cun_t

Why should they shake hands ? they obviously hate each other so what was shaking hands going to prove ? in fact Suarez had more reasons not too as it was Evra who cost him 8 games for him grassing Suarez up.

What was them antics at the end all about ? Evra really is a prick of the highest order.

[sumrit]

alfieconn, on 2012-02-12 08:41:17, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-12 00:38:40, said:

Suarez what a first class cun_t

Why should they shake hands ? they obviously hate each other so what was shaking hands going to prove ? in fact Suarez had more reasons not too as it was Evra who cost him 8 games for him grassing Suarez up.

What was them antics at the end all about ? Evra really is a prick of the highest order.

Wrong............it was Suarez that got himself an eight match ban with his racist comments. Suarez may not be racist but he used the comments to try and wind Evra up in the hope of getting him rattled and booked or sent off. It didn't work, but instead of just apologising straight away, he threw his dummy out the pram with all his childish excuses about doing 'nothing wrong'. Yesterday he had the opportunity (in the eyes of the media and public at least) to put the matter to bed by shaking hands but it looks like he's chosen to buy himself a new dummy instead. It's about time Dalglish told him to grow up.

[alfieconn]

sumrit, on 2012-02-12 09:34:11, said:

alfieconn, on 2012-02-12 08:41:17, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-12 00:38:40, said:

Suarez what a first class cun_t

Why should they shake hands ? they obviously hate each other so what was shaking hands going to prove ? in fact Suarez had more reasons not too as it was Evra who cost him 8 games for him grassing Suarez up.

What was them antics at the end all about ? Evra really is a prick of the highest order.

Wrong............it was Suarez that got himself an eight match ban with his racist comments. Suarez may not be racist but he used the comments to try and wind Evra up in the hope of getting him rattled and booked or sent off. It didn't work, but instead of just apologising straight away, he threw his dummy out the pram with all his childish excuses about doing 'nothing wrong'. Yesterday he had the opportunity (in the eyes of the media and public at least) to put the matter to bed by shaking hands but it looks like he's chosen to buy himself a new dummy instead. It's about time Dalglish told him to grow up.

In case you hadn't noticed, it's a mans game and what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch, you don't go running to the authorities like a 10 year old,i think your being a bit naive when you say that "shaking hands would have put the matter to bed"

I see you haven't commented on Evra's antics at the end of the game but i wouldn't expect anything less from a man yoo fan.

Edited by alfieconn, 2012-02-12 09:54:09.

[rixalex]

sumrit, on 2012-02-12 09:34:11, said:

alfieconn, on 2012-02-12 08:41:17, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-12 00:38:40, said:

Suarez what a first class cun_t

Why should they shake hands ? they obviously hate each other so what was shaking hands going to prove ? in fact Suarez had more reasons not too as it was Evra who cost him 8 games for him grassing Suarez up.

What was them antics at the end all about ? Evra really is a prick of the highest order.

Wrong............it was Suarez that got himself an eight match ban with his racist comments. Suarez may not be racist but he used the comments to try and wind Evra up in the hope of getting him rattled and booked or sent off. It didn't work, but instead of just apologising straight away, he threw his dummy out the pram with all his childish excuses about doing 'nothing wrong'. Yesterday he had the opportunity (in the eyes of the media and public at least) to put the matter to bed by shaking hands but it looks like he's chosen to buy himself a new dummy instead. It's about time Dalglish told him to grow up.

And not only did he get the ban, but he did not appeal it. If he and LFC were so certain and sure of his complete innocence, then why not?

At the end of the day, he was found guilty. He and LFC have to accept that, and move on, just as Erva and United would have had to accept and move on from a not guilty outcome.

Refusing the hand shake of a man you have racially abused, be it intentional or not, was pathetic. It was time for both of them to act like adults and only one of them did.

Sadly however, Erva dropped down to Suarez's level come the end of the game. SAF has said it was uncalled for behaviour and i agree. Shame that KK couldn't bring himself to likewise condemn his player for his part in it all. The "i didn't see it" response is complete bs. Used to have great respect for KK. Losing it.

[alfieconn]

rixalex, on 2012-02-12 09:58:46, said:

sumrit, on 2012-02-12 09:34:11, said:

alfieconn, on 2012-02-12 08:41:17, said:

MrRed, on 2012-02-12 00:38:40, said:

Suarez what a first class cun_t

Why should they shake hands ? they obviously hate each other so what was shaking hands going to prove ? in fact Suarez had more reasons not too as it was Evra who cost him 8 games for him grassing Suarez up.

What was them antics at the end all about ? Evra really is a prick of the highest order.

Wrong............it was Suarez that got himself an eight match ban with his racist comments. Suarez may not be racist but he used the comments to try and wind Evra up in the hope of getting him rattled and booked or sent off. It didn't work, but instead of just apologising straight away, he threw his dummy out the pram with all his childish excuses about doing 'nothing wrong'. Yesterday he had the opportunity (in the eyes of the media and public at least) to put the matter to bed by shaking hands but it looks like he's chosen to buy himself a new dummy instead. It's about time Dalglish told him to grow up.

And not only did he get the ban, but he did not appeal it. If he and LFC were so certain and sure of his complete innocence, then why not?

At the end of the day, he was found guilty. He and LFC have to accept that, and move on, just as Erva and United would have had to accept and move on from a not guilty outcome.

Refusing the hand shake of a man you have racially abused, be it intentional or not, was pathetic. It was time for both of them to act like adults and only one of them did.

Sadly however, Erva dropped down to Suarez's level come the end of the game. SAF has said it was uncalled for behaviour and i agree. Shame that KK couldn't bring himself to likewise condemn his player for his part in it all. The "i didn't see it" response is complete bs. Used to have great respect for KK. Losing it.

Why should 2 men who obviously hate each other shake hands ? would shaking hands make all that had gone on before go away ? No, so what would it have proved ?