« Prev Page 16 of 18 14 15 16 17 18 Next 447 replies to this topic

[opebo]

loveandlaughter, on 2006-09-15 14:23:39, said:

As for the sex-tourists with money, well is here really so exciting now?  Do they still dance naked at Nana Plaza?  Is Pattaya so wonderful....... I'd have thought the hardcore would be in Cambodia or the Philippines anyway what with all the other little laws they keep enforcing here.

Precisely, Thailand has become much worse for us as it has become less free.  Of course, the truth is that it is still, even in its current diminished form, better than any other place for the hobby (though of course this may depend one's individual taste).

[drummer]

opebo, on 2006-09-15 13:56:21, said:

I understand your points, drummer, and I'm well aware that visiting prostitutes is a normal part of Thai culture and most Thai men's lives.  However I would suggest that the regulation is still geared mainly against the sex tourist, though not for prudish reasons in the Western sense.  It is more that they view the sex business as causing a loss of face for Thailand, and that they do strongly dislike foreigners and would prefer not to 'share' even the despised Isaan women with them.

Excellent point, opebo.  

In reality,  the type of visa has nothing to do with reason for residence...  I know many farang who are work permitted English teachers, retirees, investors, etc  who are where directly because of the women.  Sometimes you here some really funny reasons, but most of them are here because of the women,  and most of them are fully legal and fullly funded.  Those who are scrambling for work can't afford the lifestyle!!  This regulation doesn't do anything about the sex tourist per se.  

I have noticed the extreme loss of face percieved by Thais at the international sex trade.  And most of them assess the foreign participation in the Thai sex trade as well over 75%.  Karr was a HUGE loss of face for Thais as well.    As we all know, loss of face is a very strong motivating factor,  and often a reason that motivates thais to take action that means they lose money.  If you are rude to them,  they won't sell to you.  Period.  ...  

And yes,  a great many do strongly dislike foreigners,  of all kinds. Not just farang (actually many farang are better liked than most)     And no,  there is no way they will actually tell you that if you ask them,  but they do.  Thailand is very conservative, with the culturally conservative values that come with it - like the Bible belt in America that have initiated the Minutemen project to hunt down illegal immigrants from Mexico.  Is that about actually stopping immigration,  or initiating useful action or is it about making one feel better about onesself?

[loveandlaughter]

Talk about closing door after horse has bolted.......
Dialogue from 'Snakes On a Plane' - captain:  If no one can fly this plane it's going down quicker than a Thai Hooker.
I mean it would take decades to clean away all the stains  
Mind you Afghanistan has taken over from the Golden Triangle as heroin central.
But that took the CIA,DEA and 40 years prohibition

[george]

The Nation update:
Thailand tightens re-entry rules for tourists

BANGKOK: -- Thailand will tighten its immigration rules for tourists who exploit visa free regulations, effective on October 1.

The move will affect tourists from 41 countries who have been enjoying privileges by being allowed to stay in Thailand without a visa for up to 30 days. Among the 41 countries are Australia, the UK, Canada, France, Germany, Japan and the US.

Tourists can extend their stay by travelling to neighbouring countries - Cambodia, Malaysia Laos and Burma - and returning with new entry stamps.

The new rules are issued as an increasing number of tourists have overstayed the period allowed.

"Under the current rules, people from these countries can stay in Thailand for as long as they want. Some even stay here for one year. Many work illegally in Thailand," an informed source said.

Instead of sightseeing, the tourists take advantage of the visa exemption by doing business here.

From October 1, tourists from the designated countries may still enter Thailand without visas and stay for up to 30 days, but their entry stamps will be renewable twice at most for a maximum stay of 90 days.

Tourists who stayed for 90 days must leave the Kingdom for at least 90 days before being permitted to reenter Thailand.

Thailand tightened immigration rules last year for South Asian tourists who were allowed to apply for visas on arrival which permitted them to stay in Thailand for 30 days. A large number of them took advantage by travelling to neighbouring countries and returning to get a new visa on arrival at the airport.

Under the new rules, they are allowed to obtain a visa on arrival only twice from neighbouring countries. They are then required to go back to their country of origin to obtain an entry visa to Thailand.

-- The Nation 2006-09-15

[Ned]

Three VOAs followed by a 60 day tourist visa plus one month extension then back to three more VOAs and another 60 day tourist visa plus one month extension.......equals one year doesn't it? Just means you have to go out eight times now instead of twelve. They're doing you a favour! Well it's a positive way of looking at it anyway.

[Firefan]

Ned; yes...in theory.....but who is to say that the embassies will keep issuing these tourist visas when the passport is packed with VOAs/entry stamps and other tourist visas....? What will you do then?

From other posts some of the embassies are for sure tightening up (no 2/3 entry 6 mth tourist visas Etc.).

Cheers!

[Sturbuc]

Jockstar, on 2006-09-12 14:47:48, said:

Just goto a Thai embassy/consulate overseas and get a single/double or triple entry. Easy. Then you can stay as a tourist for 3 months without having to leave. Every 3 months if on a single entry. Just go to another country and get another visa. Its not rocket science! Or am i wrong?

No, but money   :

Type of Visa........Visa Fee...... Number of Entries        Validity Period of Stay
Transit (TS)..........20 EURO......1(Single)..........90 days....max. 30 days
Transit (TS)..........40 EURO......2 (Double)......180 days....max. 30 days
Transit (TS)..........60 EURO......3 (Triple)........180 days....max. 30 days
Tourist (TR).........30 EURO......1 (Single).........90 days....max. 60 days
Tourist (TR).........60 EURO......2 (Double)......180 days....max. 60 days
Tourist (TR).........90 EURO......3 (Triple)........180 days....max. 60 days
Non-Immigrant.....50 EURO......1 (Single).........90 days....max. 90 days
Non-Immigrant...120 EURO......N (Multiple)...365 days....max. 90 days

(Quoted from http://www.thaiembassy.de/VisaD.htm)

Edited by Sturbuc, 2006-09-15 19:12:11.

[Xeque]

This is related because I am planning a visit to Oz in December to pick up a new 1 year mutiple entry non-immigrant 'O' as well spend Christmas there.

I'm sure I saw a reference to Air Asia BKK to Oz for 16,000 Baht somewhere in this or one of the other related threads.

Can anyone confirm this please.  I checked Air Asia's website but no mention of any Australian destinations

Also, can anyone recommend anywhere closer to get such a visa?  I heard that Penang is OK provided you can show a valid marriage certificate.

Edited by Xeque, 2006-09-15 19:06:09.

[drummer]

george, on 2006-09-15 15:56:26, said:

[b]The Nation update:
Instead of sightseeing, the tourists take advantage of the visa exemption by doing business here.

Does anyone else not see a major problem with this?  Despite their illegal status,  they increase the economic activity and the economic resources of Thailand,  increasing the size of the pie for everyone.  I don't think I know of ANY farang who are getting rich here in Thailand ...  and certainly not without the proper permits.  

What Thailand SHOULD be doing is making it easier to get legal,  and thus start to contributing to the system.  Kicking out people who are seen as 'doing business' just isn't the answer if the problem is an economic one.    The total amount of money in LoS,  the amount of economic activity,  and the actual revenue figures by the Thai gov't are ALL increased despite their illegal status.  

This certianly makes me think that the goal is not to tighten up visas to get people legal - but rather to get rid of a lot of foreigners.

[jdinasia]

Xeque, on 2006-09-15 12:02:50, said:

This is related because I am planning a visit to Oz in December to pick up a new 1 year mutiple entry non-immigrant 'O' as well spend Christmas there.

I'm sure I saw a reference to Air Asia BKK to Oz for 16,000 Baht somewhere in this or one of the other related threads.

Can anyone confirm this please.  I checked Air Asia's website but no mention of any Australian destinations

Also, can anyone recommend anywhere closer to get such a visa?  I heard that Penang is OK provided you can show a valid marriage certificate.

I think you saw that here .... http://www.thaivisa.com/422.0.html
but it appears to be innacurate

[mark lamai]

just read in a BBC article that tourism accounts for 14% of Thailand's GDP.
hmmmm...
if the new enforcements cause a dropoff of 14% in tourism
that equals 1% of GDP
nothing to be dismissed.
and i imagine that 'tourism" does not include all the retirement/investment visa people
putting a lot of money into Thailand.

a 14% drop in tourism may seem impossibly large,
and if it happened TAT would panic,
but, from reading the posts here, it seems that a very large number of people will
not be coming here as often as before  or as long as as before.

i for one am reconsidering where to spend more time,
not because it is marginally more hassle to get a "real" visa,
but because if I don't feel welcome I will take my money somewhere else.

[gudy]

For SUNBELT
I like to ask,  : you arrive in thailand WITH a tourist visa(60days)and before the 60days are ended you extend it for 30days(so 90 days in thailand)can you go then to malaysia and get a new tourist visa for 60 days and go back to thailand the next day(when you pickup your passport) OR NOT, (do you have to stay away for 90days???)

I think if you answer this question clearly then many people wil underrstand there situation very well
Thank you

Best regards
Gudy

[drummer]

It will be very hard to guage the results of this...    first of all you would have to gauge the level of income from tourists and from expats ...  putting long stay tourists in the expat catagory as that is how they are being treated and it is essentially what they are.  In addition a seperate catagory fom investors,  both big and small.  

Are  expats counted in the tourism section already?  I would presume you measure tourist income by taking indicator companies - hotels, restaruants, travel agencies and the like and making a representive index.  The other way would be to interview tourists to see how much they spend,  average it, then multiply by the number of tourists per year.  That way is a little fishy,  though,  and makes all of the numbers in Thialand in particular highly unreliable.  

While there would be some overlap here with expats,  I would think that most expats live half in and half out of tourist circles... i.e. their rent is not counted as tourist dollars,  but often their meals + their visa fees are... that kind of thing.  rather difficult to measure,  but perhaps an easy way to do it would be to guage your average expats expenditure,  and cut it in half (or a better number if you have one thats not pulled from my my imagination)  

Then you would have to break down the number of expats who would leave because of this regulation - taking into account the number who would "get legal" and the number who are currently legal who would just leave anyway.  Very difficult predict.  

It is easy to say that "expats are taking thai jobs anyway,  so there will be no net loss" ...  and this is doubless what the originators of this were thinking,  but it is simply untrue.  The existence of expats,  or merely additional people adds to the amount of economic activity,  adds to the GDP,  adds to the tax base,  adds jobs for Thais as taxi drivers, travel agents, som tam shops, apartment managers, Tesco clerks, etc etc etc.  (Many of these are actually small business catagories)

In other words, the money expats make (if they make money here at all!!!! - a big consideration)  gets spent here, and put back into the economy. the job that the expat has isn't lost to an expat at all - the money goes back into the system and reincarnates as other jobs.  No net loss at all (except how much they spend at Tesco ...  that gets shipped out of the country,  but thats a whole other story)

[Estrada]

Soju, on 2006-09-15 11:36:12, said:

kopkun, on 2006-09-15 12:40:02, said:

"Within a 6 month period [that means a rolling 6 month period], you may enter Thailand several times, each time must not exceed 30 days, with a total of 90 days allowed during those 6 months [the 6 months is counted from the first day you set foot in Thailand]."

Estrada has proven his credentials as a lawyer, having managed to contradict himself within the space of a single sentence. If the 6 months is a rolling period its start date must roll to: so it cannot be counted from the fixed date on which you enter Thailand. If the start date is fixed and the period is 6 months, the end date must be fixed too. Duh.

I don't see any contradiction in his statement.  There are multiple 6-month periods, each one starting on each date you enter the Kingdom.  But the only one you need to consider at any one time is the oldest one, which is within the past 6 months.  If you entered on Jan. 1, Feb. 1, and Apr. 1, then you were planning to go again on July 15, there are three 6-month periods to check:
Jan. 1 - Jun. 30
Feb. 1 - Jul. 31
Apr. 1 - Sep. 30
Being that you're planning to enter on Jul. 15, the Jan. 1 - Jun. 30 period has already expired, so no need to consider it.  Out of the remaining two, the Feb. 1 - Jul. 31 period is the oldest, so that is the only one you need to consider, ie. if you qualify for that period, you'll also qualify for any later periods, so no need to consider them.

So in summary, according to Estrada's interpretation, you look at the oldest entry stamp in your passport which is within the past six months, and starting from that date you calculate how many days you've been in the Kingdom to decide if you will be allowed in or not.

Quite right Soju, obviously my simple interpretation was still beyond the comprehension of Kopkun..."Duh".

I have been coming here for since 1982 when the Law was enforced as 90 days per 6 months so in those days we had to calculate how many days we had visited within any 6 month rolling period to decide whether we were able to enter, or not.  I have also been here long enough to know that there is also T.I.T, and immigration officers can be seen to bend the rules either way depending on their own feelings about you, so they can refuse entry even if you are eligible, and grant you entry when your are not [T.I.T]. I still love flexible Thailand.

[highdiver]

[quote name='Sunbelt Asia' date='2006-09-12 19:08:58' post='890735']
News from the new regulation:

2 days ago this title had a very bold note :from the chief of immigration!!
what happened to the title???

5.Now the news for frequent visitors: We have checked this upwards and backwards all day and it has been confirmed by a copy of the new regulation we have.  If you have a visa on arrival or a Tourist Visa Exemption more than three times in six months, you cannot come into Thailand without a visa from an Embassy/Consulate. When you enter Thailand, even if you are here just 1 hour, this counts as 30 days. If you come back 6 weeks later for 2 days, this again is 30 days. If you arrive a month later for 4 days, still counts as 30 days. When you leave, you cannot enter Thailand for 3.5 months without coming back with a visa.  The reason given is to force people who are supposed to have work permits to do so and pay tax.

that is not TRUE!!! the new regulatiuon enforce the law that sates very clearlt that
VOA can come in several times in to thailand but not more then 90 days in a 6 month period
so the example you gave is not true and is pure speculation.
todays meeting has made it very clear that they will enforce this rule not make up a new one.

Another example; you arrive for a week, this counts as 30 days, One month later 3 days and its 30 days, two months later and its for a two week period, still another 30 days. You can reenter Thailand in 6 weeks without having a visa.

once again this is not TRUE!!! you guys are presumably in the legal busisness and one can expactt you to read the law. it is very very clear.


The clock starts at zero on Oct 1st 2006, meaning everyone has a quota of three entries in the next six months. No matter how many previous entries you may have.

The clock has been active since for years sionce they decided on VOA. they are onlyt inforcing it now as many farrangs have abused it.

The bottom line is the law is going to be inforced.

The whole point of the law was that VOA can not reside in thailnd for a period of more then 90 days in 6 month.
if you are coming to thailand several times (as many as you like) but the duration of all you stays in the country is not more then 90 days in a 6 month period you can continue coming with no problem.
If you are coming one time or 50 times and staying at once or accumulatively 90 days before the 6 month period then you will need to get a proper visa from an embassy.

Sunbelt one can expact you guys as promoters and serious legal advisors to check properly and delay publiucation untill you are sure what you put out.

[BlackJack]

  for some
  for some
for some
for some
for some

[Lightemup]

Highdiver,

Dude chill out, things have changed so much back and forth the last couple of days, noones gotten it right, so take a chill pill.

Edited by Lightemup, 2006-09-15 21:46:04.

[highdiver]

Lightemup, on 2006-09-15 21:45:21, said:

Highdiver,

Dude chill out, things have changed so much back and forth the last couple of days, noones gotten it right, so take a chill pill.

Thanks man I am chilled.
it is just frustrating to see so much posts (over 350), relating to a matter that did not exist in the first place.
the way sunbelt have initially have posdted it created a huge impact on many of us. one can expact them to be more profesional.

[rasormusic]

What would we all do with our time if they didn't pull this kind of stunt now and again

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

actually,  i'm pretty sure it is perfectly legal to do what he is doing - he is not obtaining income in LOS.  LOS doesn't have anything to say about it - in fact LIKES fellows like him.  He does not need a Thai work permit to work in the US.
[/quote]

Did you get that advice from a "lawyer" on soi 4?

Our company lawyers(one of the largest firms in Thailand)  would disagree with your position.
[/quote]

if he is being taxed in the US or somewhere else then yeah it has nothing to do with thailand. Take another example. lets say you rent your house in california. You deal with that income and tax in the states. Your saying if a person wants to live Thailand and enjoy the income made and taxed in the states then Thailand wants you to have a work permit and pay taxes????

I don't think so.

[jdinasia]

CSN ---- it doesn't matter what you think .... if you are IN THAILAND and working ... Thai law is unambiguous .. you need a workpermit

RE POST 397 --- better look at the Thai Law ....

Edited by jdinasia, 2006-09-15 22:48:53.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

jdinasia, on 2006-09-15 22:36:48, said:

CSN ---- it doesn't matter what you think .... if you are IN THAILAND and working ... Thai law is unambiguous .. you need a workpermit

thats nonsense. virtually every retired person here has an investment income which they actively manage that is earned and taxed somewhere else. If a person is logging onto their brokers site or writing a little code its all the same. It's earned and taxed in another country.

Do they make people with retirement visa's get work permits and tax their foreign income. They would lose their trade status with the states etc quick.

[dog412]

jdinasia, on 2006-09-15 22:36:48, said:

CSN ---- it doesn't matter what you think .... if you are IN THAILAND and working ... Thai law is unambiguous .. you need a workpermit

RE POST 397 --- better look at the Thai Law ....

i study on the internet daily. am i entitled to a "study" visa?

[jdinasia]

you mean a non-imm-ed visa? Sure! IF it is from an accredited uni/school that the MoE recognizes!

[mark lamai]

new visa categories announced.
Non-Immigration BD (beer drinking) - 90 days
Non-Immigration BG (bar girl) - 3 nights
Non-Immigration PDTP (property developer with Thai partner) - unlimited.
Non-Immigration ET (english teacher) - 30 days, with travel limited to Aranyaprathet on weekends.
Non-Immigration TGF (thai girlfriend) - 5 days, only granted if your monthly payments are in arrears so she can con you again.