447 replies to this topic
Posted 2006-09-12 22:03:39
 thaigene2, on 2006-09-12 21:25:45, said:
How does this affect business people coming in and out of Thailand more than three times a year? I guess this means they need to get a B Visa from their local Thai Consulate - correct? Have the rules changed for these visas? I seem to recall it was pretty easy to get - but that was around five years ago..
By the way, I don't see how changing these VOA rules will force people to pay tax..You could have a B or O Visa and still work illegally.
My view is you should always try to do things the legal way. The rate of taxation here is very low anyway - around 10% or less. Just get legal is my advice.
A lot of people are asking about if any of this will affect a Class B visa. As of now, there is no change to a class B visa.
But don't be suprized if very soon you see a new policy, something like, you will be granted no more than 3 Class B visas within say a 2 year period, unless you have gotten a work permit within that time.
This is also how they are going to stop people with Class B visas from working illegally, and not paying tax.
If you have received mulitple Class B visas you will need to get a work permit, and then you will have to pay taxes. If not, you will receive the same message these current measures are broadcasting. Get a job or get out, unless you are 50+ years old.
Please don't think I am happy about these new regulations, I am only stating what I feel is the Thai governments new stance on long staying foreigners in Thailand. And that message is, if you are not paying taxes, or investing a serious amount of money in their economy, you are not welcome anymore.
Don't get upset at them about this, this is there country and they never made any promises to you, that you would always be welcomed.
Posted 2006-09-12 22:04:07
Sunbelt Asia, on 2006-09-12 21:50:56, said: We feel though they are serious about the crackdown on people not paying tax and no work permit. This is the mantra you hear now.
Yes it looks serious (due to the political situation too, which is currently very, very special).
But I don't buy the mantra they gave to you.
I really do believe that
-they want a better control of their frontiers
-and they want to reduce the total number of visible foreigners
Last stats for june : 57 000 work permit holders in BKK ! Half japanese.
If you add, all the farangs on WP/visa/retirees/husbands system, plus the real tourists, plus all the farangs who are outside the system.... well we are simply too many.
It's difficult for people coming from Europe for instance (or USA) to understand that, because our countries are litteraly washed with foreigners (legals and illegals)...
But in Asia, i strongly believe that there is a "limit" of tolerance among the local population and the government.
I believe that we have reached this limit.
Posted 2006-09-12 22:09:37
Quote Your 5th point in your opening post said: "If you have a visa on arrival more than three times in six months... "
Some countries, like China and India, have a Visa on Arrival, and others, like USA and UK, have a Tourist Visa Exemption (i.e. stamp in their passport in lieu of a visa.) Do *both* of these situations, i.e. VOA and visa-less passport stamps, fall into the no-more-than-three-times-in-six-months category, or is it strictly VOA?
It is the Tourist Visa Exemption and VOA. For convenience factor, they are being grouped together rather than say "TVE" and "VOA." If anything they are targeting more the "TVE"
Quote Also, at some point in these discussions (very hard to keep track of what I read where!) it was said that this "crackdown" on "excessive" use of 30-day entries would only be enforced at border crossings, and not at airport immigration points. In your latest discussions with the Immigrations officials which led to your opening post, was it stated that airport immigration points would NOT check for no-more-than-three-times-in-six-months?
The regulation that we have a copy of, is quite clear, it is for all immigration points including the airport.
Quote Many, many thanks for not only sponsoring this forum, but being active and clarifying so many points.
You are welcome. We hope the Thai government gets want they want to accomplish and foreigners are able to handle the change.
www.sunbeltasiagroup.com
Posted 2006-09-12 22:11:08
I see everyone is asking “how does this change my life?” I can say from the looks of this it will change the Thais more than it does visa holders. The implementation of this for the Thais will be a nightmare. What they want and what they get most certainly will be different things. Just a few things they will encounter listed.
Angry Thai parents wanting to know where the native speaking English teachers they paid for are.
Inability to meet teaching mandates of having native speaking teachers.
Landlords suddenly faced with huge vacancies and inability to make mortgage payments setting off foreclosures.
Sudden end to the building boom and perhaps expected revenue for big ticket projects. Too many vacancies.
( Don’t forget Thaksin spent expected income out past 2010 so there is no backup cash to cushion this.)
It only took me two minutes to come up with that. All of the above translates to votes. This does not only effect Bangkok but all of Thailand including Thaksinland. The only question is who started this? Meaning who very literally just placed their life in danger with this decision. Was it in Immigration or higher up? When you know that you will get an idea of the life expectancy of this idea and perhaps the person who started it. I am quite sure money going out goes against Thai culture and beliefs.
There is a symbiotic relationship that is beneficial to both Thais and visa holders that is about to be interrupted.
Edited by John K, 2006-09-12 22:20:27.
Posted 2006-09-12 22:20:03
dunez, on 2006-09-12 14:59:31, said: I am coming to Thailand on Sep 26. I have a 60 day tourist visa which I can extend for 30 days. Does that 90 days count as my quota or am I able to get 90 more days by doing 3 visa runs?
The first 90 days do not count towards your quota. ( you had a 60 day visa plus extension)
www.sunbeltasiagroup.com
Posted 2006-09-12 22:20:56
How will this affesct anyone who.....
A Just wants to retire in Thailand, with the occasional trip home to see the kids ?
B Just wants to buy/rent a property in retirement ?
C wants to live there legaly and have the corect visa ?
D has a pension from the UK in a UK bank (HSBC)
E has no intension of working or getting a Thai bride and is married to a British wife (NOT Thai)
Posted 2006-09-12 22:21:25
Subelt ! Thank you for your hard work and sponsorship.
One more question for your concerning Support of Thai wife and children.
Will the income requirement remain the same at 400,000 Baht or is it also slated to change?
Posted 2006-09-12 22:22:49
geoffphuket, on 2006-09-12 20:19:35, said: Lets hope the Asean member states bordering Thailand don’t adopt the same policy - else were all screwed. Think about it. 
Posted 2006-09-12 22:25:58
Looks like "Thailand Elite Card" might see an increase in members!
Posted 2006-09-12 22:29:16
Does the new regulations affect the Amity treaty for us Yanks?
jonny benway
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Posted 2006-09-12 22:31:06
Hi .... do you know if it will still be possible to get a one-week extension on a VOA ?
Thanx 
Posted 2006-09-12 22:31:07
Ok - so how will my situation be when I live in Laos (full 1 year visa) and just drive over to Thailand to do some shopping and building supplies etc?
Whilst were starting off building the house I might drive over there 3 times in one week! I don't want to get a long term visa (since I have no reason to want stay there!).
I'm guessing I'll just have to go to the Thai Embassy in Vientiane - and as I've got a full multi entry 1 year visa to Laos they should just dish out a visa?
Bit of a pain in the butt to have to drive back to town to then drive back out to Friendship Bridge (we own land part way between town and the bridge).
Any clues on this one?
Posted 2006-09-12 22:32:23
poorfarang, on 2006-09-12 21:28:38, said: Im sick of the attitude that some people are showing here. Its almost like they are very happy that some of us will now have problems. Rediculous
I agree, for a lot of people this is going to cause (already causing) much stress and inconvenience. Others should consider that instead of saying som nam na.
The following is copied from Wikipedia:
som nam na, can be interpreted as "you got what you deserved," "serves you right" or "I'm laughing at your bad luck."
In German it is called schadenfreude.
Schadenfreude is also referenced in the Simpsons episode "When Flanders Failed." Lisa accuses Homer of feeling schadenfreude when Homer gloats about Ned Flanders being on the verge of bankruptcy. Lisa asks Homer, "Dad, do you know what Schadenfreude is?", to which Homer replies in a sarcastic tone, "No, I do not know what Schadenfreude is. Please tell me because I'm dying to know." Lisa then explains "It's a German term for shameful joy, taking pleasure in the suffering of others." Homer responds with "Oh, come on, Lisa. I'm just glad to see him fall flat on his butt! He's usually all happy and comfortable, and surrounded by loved ones, and it makes me feel...what's the opposite of that shameful joy thing of yours?" "Sour grapes." "Boy, those Germans have a word for everything."
Taking pleasure in other suffering is so not cool. Best of luck to all types of visa holders, investors, etc.
Posted 2006-09-12 22:33:18
Howdie,
I'm stumped. Maybe you can help clarify.
Here's my situation.....
I'm 34, have been in Thailand 8 years. I have a daughter (half thai) four years old, but am not with her mother, and we never married. Obviously I support both of them here in Thailand.
For the past four years I have had a wok permit. However 3 months ago many of us quit from the job and opted to work from home. Work is internet based and clients are mostly in the USA. At that time i did not have the money to go back to the UK to get a Non Imm B, or fly to Singapore or Malysia for a tourist Visa.
So, to cut a long story short, I now have 3 consecutive 30 day visa's in my passport (and not much cash).
Here's my questions...
1. based on the above info what visa would I legally be entitled to.... Non Imm 'B' or 'O' ?
2. Having 3 consequtive stamps in my passport, would I be able to get a tourist visa in Singapore? This would keep me going until xmas when I plan to go back to the uk and get the right visa.
Cheers for all your help.
PPG
Posted 2006-09-12 22:34:26
lambous, on 2006-09-12 17:00:39, said: Looks like all this won't affect those of us who have 2 passports 
Yeah that would be the way to go
If I may, If I understand correctly, this new enforcement commences at october 1st, but it includes previous entries, I entered Thailand on July 22, did two more entries and left August 18, I was in the country for about 20 days. Of course since these are three entries, am I correct in assuming that I cannot return to Thailand (without a valid Tourist Visa) for 90 days ?
Posted 2006-09-12 22:34:53
BlackJack, on 2006-09-12 20:57:12, said: warriors, on 2006-09-12 20:47:18, said:
Oh it is great to be 50+ year old male with a retirement visa living correctly in the LOS.
Where as before many on here looked down on us so called oldies and said we losers and only here for the young girls because we couldn't get a lady over seas. How the world changers.
Most not all of us, are nothing like that, we respect the laws of this country, times are a changing for you so called young men. Do it the right way and all will be well. If not move on to where the rules are more laxed.
I understand there will be some problems for some, but in your heart of hearts, you knew you were bending the rules as you stepped on the buses that took you over the borders.
I wish you all luck in getting over your problems 
here here
hopefully for your sake your gloating won't turn sour. there are rumors about that they'll raise the financial requirements for retireds and marrieds...
if that happens i wish you all luck in putting all your loot in neat little piles to keep the visas coming:whistling:
Posted 2006-09-12 22:35:34
migrant, on 2006-09-12 22:29:16, said: Does the new regulations affect the Amity treaty for us Yanks?
The amity treaty is mainly concerned with American citizens and entities and there percentage of ownership in Thai companies, and has almost nothing to do with visas. So these regulations have nothing to do with the American Amity treaty. But in this politcal climate I wouldn't be suprised to see changes to the Amity treaty as well.
Posted 2006-09-12 22:38:58
[quote]A Just wants to retire in Thailand, with the occasional trip home to see the kids ?[/quote]
If you are over 50 years old, no problem on the extension of stay based on retirement.
Otherwise it may mean
1. The Thai Elite card.
2. Multiple Entry Visa
3. Extension of stay based on Education ( Go to school)
4. Extension of stay based on business (Have a business that you do exporting) You can own 100% as a foreigner and get a work permit. Must be a real company doing business.
[quote]B Just wants to buy/rent a property in retirement ?[/quote]
You can buy as long as its a condo. You can buy the building as a freehold and rent land as a leasehold ( or servitude with right of habitation, usufruct and superficies)
[quote]C wants to live there legaly and have the corect visa ?[/quote]
see above
[quote]has a pension from the UK in a UK bank (HSBC)[/quote]
Helps if you are over 50 years old.
[quote]E has no intension of working or getting a Thai bride and is married to a British wife (NOT Thai)[/quote]
Still all applied. Extension of stay based on business ( You can get a work permit and still just sign checks without working as long as you have a good mgr) This option of course has risks. Not all businesses make money!
www.sunbeltasiagroup.com
Posted 2006-09-12 22:42:54
Sunbelt Asia, on 2006-09-12 19:08:58, said: 5.Now the news for frequent visitors: We have checked this upwards and backwards all day and it has been confirmed by a copy of the new regulation we have. If you have a visa on arrival more than three times in six months, you cannot come into Thailand without a visa from an Embassy/Consulate. When you enter Thailand, even if you are here just 1 hour, this counts as 30 days. If you come back 6 weeks later for 2 days, this again is 30 days. If you arrive a month later for 4 days, still counts as 30 days. When you leave, you cannot enter Thailand for 3.5 months without coming back with a visa. The reason is to force people who are supposed to have work permits to do so and pay tax.
That's clear then Since i got more than 4 30-day exemption stamps within the last six month I guess I have to get a tourist visa next time when my leave is due.
I'm working in Saudi at the moment but I'm not 100% sure Thailand still has a embassy or consulate here.
Anybody can provide a link to Thai embassies/consulates abroad?
Posted 2006-09-12 22:42:56
We are going to see a true BOOM in the wedding market. On unprecedent scale.
Solutions to bypass the problem based on visa B or tourist visas, won't last very long IMHO.
For people who can not have a work permit, or who are not eligible for retirement visa, the only good solution will be to get... a thai wife.
And, I believe they will probably going to put more and more obstacles on farang/thai mariages.
Why ?
Because it's what we did in Europe ! With strong immigrations regulations, people were using the "mariage" trick. So governements decided to crack down on "blank mariage" etc.
Posted 2006-09-12 22:43:09
PPG, on 2006-09-12 17:33:18, said: I'm 34, have been in Thailand 8 years. I have a daughter (half thai) four years old, but am not with her mother, and we never married. Obviously I support both of them here in Thailand.
...what visa would I legally be entitled to You should qualify for a non-O visa from a Thai consulate, and then annual extensions of stay to be applied for at the local immigration office for support of a Thai dependent (your daughter). See here, click on “Visa Extension”
---------------
Maestro
Posted 2006-09-12 22:50:19
meom, on 2006-09-12 17:42:54, said: Anybody can provide a link to Thai embassies/consulates abroad?
Maestro
Posted 2006-09-12 22:53:28
meom, on 2006-09-12 22:42:54, said: I'm working in Saudi at the moment but I'm not 100% sure Thailand still has a embassy or consulate here.
Anybody can provide a link to Thai embassies/consulates abroad?
A quick google found this one:
http://www.asiatradi...aiembassies.htm
Posted 2006-09-12 22:55:22
[quote name='mouse' post='891138' date='2006-09-12 15:21:25']Subelt ! Thank you for your hard work and sponsorship.
One more question for your concerning Support of Thai wife and children.
Will the income requirement remain the same at 400,000 Baht or is it also slated to change?[/quote]
Thanks for the warm greeting. It is still 400K. No news yet of any change.
[quote]Here's my situation.....
I'm 34, have been in Thailand 8 years. I have a daughter (half thai) four years old, but am not with her mother, and we never married. Obviously I support both of them here in Thailand.
For the past four years I have had a wok permit. However 3 months ago many of us quit from the job and opted to work from home. Work is internet based and clients are mostly in the USA. At that time i did not have the money to go back to the UK to get a Non Imm B, or fly to Singapore or Malysia for a tourist Visa.
So, to cut a long story short, I now have 3 consecutive 30 day visa's in my passport (and not much cash).[/quote]
[quote]Here's my questions...
1. based on the above info what visa would I legally be entitled to.... Non Imm 'B' or 'O' ?[/quote]
Non O If your name is on the birth certificate of the child. In order to do a extension of stay based on support of a Thai national. You will need to go to court to win custody. Hence it’s best to get a one year multi entry at the Consulate by showing the birth certificate. It’s up to the embassy.
[quote]2. Having 3 consequtive stamps in my passport, would I be able to get a tourist visa in Singapore? This would keep me going until xmas when I plan to go back to the uk and get the right visa.[/quote]
Hard question. You may be better to try on the "O: visa first. At least if they see you support a child they are more apt to give you a visa.
As for the work from home. This is very sensitive issue as if the Labor Dept knocks on your door. No way they can prove anything if you click away from the computer screen. This is directly the words from the Labor Dept last week. Still if you are working in Thailand, you need a work permit. Something to be aware of.
[quote]If I may, If I understand correctly, this new enforcement commences at october 1st, but it includes previous entries, I entered Thailand on July 22, did two more entries and left August 18, I was in the country for about 20 days. Of course since these are three entries, am I correct in assuming that I cannot return to Thailand (without a valid Tourist Visa) for 90 days ?[/quote]
You are correct.
[quote]Ok - so how will my situation be when I live in Laos (full 1 year visa) and just drive over to Thailand to do some shopping and building supplies etc?
Whilst were starting off building the house I might drive over there 3 times in one week! I don't want to get a long term visa (since I have no reason to want stay there!).[/quote]
Even if you enter Thailand for 10 minutes, it counts as 30 days.
[quote]I'm guessing I'll just have to go to the Thai Embassy in Vientiane - and as I've got a full multi entry 1 year visa to Laos they should just dish out a visa?[/quote]
If you have a visa, then this does not apply to you.
[quote]do you know if it will still be possible to get a one-week extension on a VOA ?[/quote]
yes
www.sunbeltasiagroup.com
Posted 2006-09-12 22:55:23
[quote name='Sunbelt Asia' post='891182' date='2006-09-12 16:38:58'][quote]
A Just wants to retire in Thailand, with the occasional trip home to see the kids ?[/quote]
If you are over 50 years old, no problem on the extension of stay based on retirement.
Otherwise it may mean
1. The Thai Elite card.
2. Multiple Entry Visa
3. Extension of stay based on Education ( Go to school)
4. Extension of stay based on business (Have a business that you do exporting) You can own 100% as a foreigner and get a work permit. Must be a real company doing business.
[quote]B Just wants to buy/rent a property in retirement ?[/quote]
You can buy as long as its a condo. You can buy the building as a freehold and rent land as a leasehold ( or servitude with right of habitation, usufruct and superficies)
[quote]C wants to live there legaly and have the corect visa ?[/quote]
see above
[quote]has a pension from the UK in a UK bank (HSBC)[/quote]
Helps if you are over 50 years old.
[quote]E has no intension of working or getting a Thai bride and is married to a British wife (NOT Thai)[/quote]
Still all applied. Extension of stay based on business ( You can get a work permit and still just sign checks without working as long as you have a good mgr) This option of course has risks. Not all businesses make money!
www.sunbeltasiagroup.com
[/quote]
THANK YOU very much for your help, VERY much appreciated
I'm 56, and have been mulling the idea over for a few years, was kinda hoping to buy something with a garden rather than a condo, just so the kids could bring their kids over and give em somewhere to play
AND as I'm a plumber here in the UK, wont be much chance of doing a bit of private work in the condo
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