359 replies to this topic
Posted 2006-09-23 14:38:41
 Arsenal, on 2006-09-23 14:29:54, said:
OldAsiaHand, on 2006-09-23 14:06:19, said:
kurtgruen, on 2006-09-23 12:41:11, said:
george, on 2006-09-23 00:53:41, said:
Thailand to target deposed PM's assets
BANGKOK: -- Thailand may seize the assets of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, a self-made telecom tycoon believed to be worth over $2-billion (about R14,6-billion), the new military junta said on Friday.
Hopefully they are not too late already. I think back to Marcos from the Phillipines who stole billions for his country and than managed to get out to the States.
I would have seized all his assets and all of his family's assets right away. Maybe not all, leave him with 800000 Baht, so he can afford to get himself a retirement visa somewhere. (We wouldn't want to be cruel, would we?) 
Kurt
What rubbish.
Why does every mention of Thaksin's money cause you people to fly into ignorant, anti-wealth hysteria like this? Oh, of course.....I forgot. You're Brits.
Never mind.
Are they Brits? Perhaps, and it's true that the forum is over-represented with the scummier kind of PattayaBrit (fat,unsuccesful, indifferently educated ex-sex tourists now mainly visa runners saddled with a Thai "family" and often with a snub nosed ex hooker as a "wife").These people rage at Thaksin and indeed at any success or wealth legitimately aquired to compensate for their own depressing lifestyle and non-achievement.Not sure however whether the anti-wealth prejudice is reflected among Brits at home, not to the same extent anyway since Thatcher.
In any case whatever Thaksin's faults - and they are many and I'm glad he's gone-it's hard to sustain the charge his wealth was acquired illegitimately.Indeed by the standards of his predecessors he is quite clean in that respect.
I have always found the Brits out here speak a lot more sense than my American compatriots. Hope this doesnt get too off topic and degenerate into a US-UK thing, or typical ignorant American "if you aint successful you are a loser" BS. I thought I left that behind. Having a lot of money doesnt make you good or bad. Having no money doesnt make you good or bad.
Peace
Posted 2006-09-23 14:44:41
Nah this is just OldHandLuke's 35 years in Thailand ... hating it .... typical rant
Posted 2006-09-23 14:47:45
george, on 2006-09-23 00:53:41, said: "There are more than five people under consideration, and I expect he will be named soon," Chalit said.
-- AFP 2006-09-23
Safe to say it wont be a woman then 
Posted 2006-09-23 14:50:37
pap, on 2006-09-23 07:43:26, said: marquess, on 2006-09-22 16:37:25, said:
He owned a lot of property around the new airport.
Ah, how lucky to have bought land there before the announcement of the airport being built . . .
Posted 2006-09-23 14:51:46
[quote name='hammered' post='909450' date='2006-09-23 14:38:41'][quote name='Arsenal' post='909438' date='2006-09-23 14:29:54']
[quote name='OldAsiaHand' post='909402' date='2006-09-23 14:06:19']
[quote name='kurtgruen' post='909326' date='2006-09-23 12:41:11']
[quote name='george' post='908735' date='2006-09-23 00:53:41']
Thailand to target deposed PM's assets
BANGKOK: -- Thailand may seize the assets of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, a self-made telecom tycoon believed to be worth over $2-billion (about R14,6-billion), the new military junta said on Friday.[/quote]
Hopefully they are not too late already. I think back to Marcos from the Phillipines who stole billions for his country and than managed to get out to the States.
I would have seized all his assets and all of his family's assets right away. Maybe not all, leave him with 800000 Baht, so he can afford to get himself a retirement visa somewhere. (We wouldn't want to be cruel, would we?)
Kurt
[/quote]
What rubbish.
Why does every mention of Thaksin's money cause you people to fly into ignorant, anti-wealth hysteria like this? Oh, of course.....I forgot. You're Brits.
Never mind.
[/quote]
Are they Brits? Perhaps, and it's true that the forum is over-represented with the scummier kind of PattayaBrit (fat,unsuccesful, indifferently educated ex-sex tourists now mainly visa runners saddled with a Thai "family" and often with a snub nosed ex hooker as a "wife").These people rage at Thaksin and indeed at any success or wealth legitimately aquired to compensate for their own depressing lifestyle and non-achievement.Not sure however whether the anti-wealth prejudice is reflected among Brits at home, not to the same extent anyway since Thatcher.
In any case whatever Thaksin's faults - and they are many and I'm glad he's gone-it's hard to sustain the charge his wealth was acquired illegitimately.Indeed by the standards of his predecessors he is quite clean in that respect.
[/quote]
I have always found the Brits out here speak a lot more sense than my American compatriots. Hope this doesnt get too off topic and degenerate into a US-UK thing, or typical ignorant American "if you aint successful you are a loser" BS. I thought I left that behind. Having a lot of money doesnt make you good or bad. Having no money doesnt make you good or bad.
Peace
[/quote]
Nice sentiments. Nevertheless this topic is out of control. CLOSED /Admin
Posted 2006-09-23 14:53:05
As part of a huge scale corruption investigation,
freezing suspect's assets, so they don't just sod off, is SOP.
It has been pretty clear appearing that,
since he was in business with Munson, 20 years ago,
he seemed to be willing to be as bent as he needed to be
to get ahead.
So that said, it is logically clear most of his assets
from at LEAST that time onward are suspect.
Freezing them until such time as charges can be brought
or it is determined they are legit, makes perfect sense.
Since Mrs. T is rumored to be coming, or have returned,
to look after the family pile here, that would also seem
to be for finding ways to move some of it out of harms way,
so to speak.
Someone said above, we will be surprised what comes out
in the next few months. Maybe, maybe.
Edited by animatic, 2006-09-23 14:56:27.
Posted 2006-09-23 14:53:35
OldAsiaHand, on 2006-09-23 14:06:19, said: kurtgruen, on 2006-09-23 12:41:11, said:
george, on 2006-09-23 00:53:41, said:
Thailand to target deposed PM's assets
BANGKOK: -- Thailand may seize the assets of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra, a self-made telecom tycoon believed to be worth over $2-billion (about R14,6-billion), the new military junta said on Friday.
Hopefully they are not too late already. I think back to Marcos from the Phillipines who stole billions for his country and than managed to get out to the States.
I would have seized all his assets and all of his family's assets right away. Maybe not all, leave him with 800000 Baht, so he can afford to get himself a retirement visa somewhere. (We wouldn't want to be cruel, would we?)
Kurt
What rubbish.
Why does every mention of Thaksin's money cause you people to fly into ignorant, anti-wealth hysteria like this? Oh, of course.....I forgot. You're Brits.
Never mind.
And you would be from where?
Just because people express a different opinion to you does not give you the right to slag a nation off. yes there may well be a large number of people exactly as you described in Thailand that are Brits. There are also a large number of respectable, hard working, tax paying Brits that enjoy living here.
Some probbaly support taxin, some probably dont. Most probably think he did some good and got carried away and ended up doing some bad - like a lot of politicians around the world.
I could make an accurate guess as to your country of origin but wont as i refuse to tar compatriots from your country with the same brush.
Bigots are Bigots - you dont have to come from a particular country to claim that dubios right.
Be more understanding and the world will have less need for conflict - physical or verbal
Posted 2006-09-23 14:58:50
-jr-, on 2006-09-23 05:57:06, said: VTR1000, on 2006-09-23 03:44:12, said:
george, on 2006-09-23 00:53:41, said:
Thailand to target deposed PM's assets
Forbes magazine in July said Thaksin is Thailand's fourth richest businessman with a fortune worth R2,2-billion.
Who are the three? The ones richer than him? Would be interesting to know.
....and what is R2,2-billion? Is that Rand, Ruppees, Baht even, or Dollars or Pounds? I'm a multi milllionaire in Vietnam and Italy, really!!!
It has been Euro in Italy for years already. 
Back to the topic. I just read in another newspaper, the Council for Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy (CDRM) said that they have no plan to seize Toxin's asset by themselves. They will let NCCC investigate and take care of that, which I think it's quite generous already, in addition to the fact that they didn't freeze Toxin's accounts from day 1. And as far I know (from newspapers), his accounts are still not locked, which is what I couldn't understand.
I don't think they should just seize all the assets. Only the amount they found that it's not legally obtained should be fair enough, plus calculated interest and fine for damage he caused, of course. That could worth all he has in Thai banks and properties. Somehow I don't think it would make him poor. Poorer than when he was PM, maybe. But while investigating, shouldn't it be safer to freeze the account, especially when the account's owner is now abroad.
I've been a millionaire in Indonesia, too
Posted 2006-09-23 15:21:42
When he took office he was worth 2.9 billion$,now after making the 1.9 billion shin deal he is worth only 2.2 billion $.He most have spend a bit it seems.
I come from Mars
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Posted 2006-09-23 15:41:21
MiG16, on 2006-09-23 13:41:00, said: davidb98, on 2006-09-23 08:17:35, said:
Seems to me Taksin improved and developed Thailand greatly on the world stage and internally during his rule.
He introduced significant improvements to peoples lives with the hospital and the one product one tambon schemes.
I am told that his attacks on the drug trade while too violent has reduced the growth of this industry and annoyed many Thai gangsters. Its these people that ordinary Thais should get rid of!
Compared to previous Thai leaders I think he was superior in action and benefits to Thailand.
And, much of the complaint against him appears to be jealousy.
I think he will accept whatever is thrown at him provided its handled by the legal system and not simply a political witchhunt by an elite minority that could not achieve enough votes to topple him constitutionally.
I totally agree with David. and if any of you have really been watching thai politics and its leaders in the past few year prior to Thaksin you would have to admit that to be true. despite his faults and abuse of power, he still did good things for the poor.
Agree with you davidb98.
We can not judge now. Let see all the real evidence in the court.
We will know the truth or if ...
Posted 2006-09-23 15:59:45
John K, on 2006-09-23 14:33:34, said: I suspect right now he is scheming on how to retake power. It may be another week or so before reality kicks in for him. For the moment I think his primary emotion is anger. We have seen how easily he blows a unit when things don’t go his way. You need to think that it has been several years perhaps 10+ that he has always had his way. I suspect he will at least try something and soon. Every minute away from power weakens his grip on his supporters. I am very certain he sees the only way to save the money he perceives as his money is being in power. He knows given time he will lose not only his money but his freedom. It is not in his personality to compromise, it is his way only as we have seen time and time again.
One thing I am not sure of is what he views as more important, his family or money.
Fully agree, let's hope people at the job right now, won't let it happen - if so - it will open the pandoras box....!
And he will put his neck fully into the noose!
I tihnk he's lost his options, none left, his Generals, cronies and 'helping hands' are being 'rounded up' or left the sinking ship...
It's "thai style' some even have been given a 2nd chance.
As somewhere else was said: "he can start anew, where he is right now!" A good friend is around there already, good ol' bud' Al Fayette - who this guy is, we do know - don't we?
Edited by Samuian, 2006-09-23 16:01:06.
Posted 2006-09-23 16:05:55
[/quote]
Are they Brits? Perhaps, and it's true that the forum is over-represented with the scummier kind of PattayaBrit (fat,unsuccesful, indifferently educated ex-sex tourists now mainly visa runners saddled with a Thai "family" and often with a snub nosed ex hooker as a "wife").These people rage at Thaksin and indeed at any success or wealth legitimately aquired to compensate for their own depressing lifestyle and non-achievement.Not sure however whether the anti-wealth prejudice is reflected among Brits at home, not to the same extent anyway since Thatcher.
In any case whatever Thaksin's faults - and they are many and I'm glad he's gone-it's hard to sustain the charge his wealth was acquired illegitimately.Indeed by the standards of his predecessors he is quite clean in that respect.
[/quote]
exactly. which is why all this is a joke. thaksin was removed not because he is any more or less corrupt than any other person who has held that office, but because he outsmarted a lot of people who don't like to be outsmarted, and because his real power-base is among poor people who are unable to launch any kind of counter-offensive to this coup. like it or not, folks, this was a military coup deposing a twice-elected prime minister. what you think of how he made his money or how much of it there is, or if he allegedly "bought" an election is IRRELEVANT! do you want every person in this country's vote to count, or not? do you want poor rural people in this country's votes to count as much as bangkok people's, or not? that's the question that really matters right now, especially because this coup happened when elections were already scheduled not even 2 months from now, and now have been postponed "for a year".
Edited by newworks, 2006-09-23 16:08:18.
Posted 2006-09-23 16:09:15
Update:
Thaksin's wife, children still in Thailand
BANGKOK: -- The military ordered the new anti-corruption panel to start meeting immediately, and a senior official said the members were told to aim at seizing assets of the Thaksin Shinawatra family, foreign news agencies reported today.
The Associated Press also confirmed that Mr Thaksin's wife Khunying Pojaman, widely reported to have fled Thailand in panic last Tuesday night just ahead of the declaration of martial law, is safe and sound in Thailand, as is the couple's only son.
Radio Thaiand quoted Panthep Klanarongran, chief of the new, nine-member National Counter Corruption Commission, that the Council of Democratic Reform under the Constitutional Monarchy (CDRM) ordered him to call the first NCCC meeting on Monday.
"Mr Panthep stated that the other eight members of NCCC have been informed to attend its first unofficial meeting on the 25th of September at 10.00 hours at the office of NCCC," said the report. "He admitted that he has been approached by the Council of Democratic Reform."
Mr Panthep said he expected little business to be conducted. "He said the purpose of the meeting is to meet with the staff and get to know one another better."
But the AP quoted a source said to be close to the NCCC that the panel intends to proceed swiftly towards seizing Thaksin assets.
"We will investigate his assets and use existing laws to confiscate them and money he gained from corruption and abuse of power," the news agency quoted a source it said was a "well-placed official who demanded anonymity because the investigation has not yet been made public."
The source continued:
"The assets and money [Thaksin] had before he became prime minister will not be touched."
News reports had claimed Khunying Pojaman had fled to Singapore, and that the couple's son Panthongtae had also left the country.
Instead, said CDRM spokesman, Thaksin's wife and son "all have the basic right to stay and lead normal lives here. They are living in freedom and without any disturbance, control or restrictions."
Khunying Pojaman and a daughter were at an Air Force compound, under the protection of ousted interior minister Kongsak Wantana, a retired Air Force air marshal. Mr Panthongtae was still at the family home in Bangkok.
--AFP/BKK Post 2006-09-23
Posted 2006-09-23 16:44:32
Martin, on 2006-09-23 02:01:48, said: It is not quite as simple as the conclusion to which we western-centrics are prone to jump.
Our mistake is to look at Thailand and see the same 'hardware and software' as in Western long-industrialised nations, and assume that the 'orgware' is/must be/should be the same.
But it isn't. There are fundamental differences in how we have been brought up to believe that society should be organised, and the beliefs to which Thais are brought up.
Fifteen years ago, major surveys were done to ascertain the views of people about 'backhanders' and 'dipping in the till'.
In one part, they were asked: "When a businessman gives a commission fee to government department or high government officials lookin after a project, how do you call it?
16.1% answered: "Gift of good will (sin nam jai)".
9.2% answered: "Part of the cost of the project".
44.9% answered: "Bribery".
18.3% answered: "The official is dishonest in his work".
34.4% answered: "Corruption (karrapchan)".
3.5% answered: "Not corruption (mae karrapchan)".
6.8% answered: "Not sure".
7.9% gave other answers, or none at all.
(It adds up to more than 100% because respondents could give two answers if they wished.)
That is taken from "Corruption and Democracy in Thailand" by Pasuk Phongpaichit and Sungsidh Piriyaranangsan.
I wonder what would be the result of the same survey being done on members of thaivisa.com?
However, all these discussions are like trying to knit treacle, with the long-standing requirement to treat a matter of major impact as taboo, and this week's additional requirement of self-censorship.
Well put, and well said, Khun Martin. Goes into the same category as the "global" US view/interpretation (might I add execution...) of democracy. I currently live in the middle of Europe again (returning to LOS for good soon!) and have many, many discussions with people here about "how things are in LOS", particularly now that everybody is a) concerned about and  and expert on coups. It really is the apples-and-bananas bit: many farangs are prone to measure things in cm or inches, while in fact (locally) it's long or short...!
Posted 2006-09-23 17:12:09
QUOTE(Arsenal @ 2006-09-23 14:29:54)
Are they Brits? Perhaps, and it's true that the forum is over-represented with the scummier kind of PattayaBrit (fat,unsuccesful, indifferently educated ex-sex tourists now mainly visa runners saddled with a Thai "family" and often with a snub nosed ex hooker as a "wife").
Quote ................................................................................
......................................ended
For the above quote you show what an unbiased well un informed bigoted cretin you are.
With an unwarranted agenda against many of our forum members and their families like this your creditability is zero.
What the fcuk has this got to do with Toxins infamous wealth and how he came by the majority of it all.
" Troll " and off topic.
I never cease to wonder where the international news associations get there information from and why they seem to be sympathetic to Toxin and how he was undemocratically removed from power.
I cannot for the life of me relate to most of it and the total distorsions of the what brought this action about in the first place.
The shin corp deal and his manipulation of the laws and the constitution to enable him to make obscene amounts of money and not 1 satang tax deductable to name but one.
Toxin could teach them all about democracy then couldn,t he Mr. Bush and all the other hyprocritical statesmen/ woman that seem to by standing in his corner.
They make me sick.
Again kudos to the 4 wise men and everyone associated with the no violent coup. 
Civilian control will definitely return and a clearing of the decks along with a new constitution that cannot be minipulated on the scale the TRT did to the last one.
There will be many so called PuYai and members of the government having a few speepless nights, that,s for sure.
May they all get their just rewards and long holidays in the Bangkok Hilton ?????????????
If only they will............................................................................
................................
marshbags
P.S.
I find it really difficult to post my thoughts out of respect for the forum rules but have at least got rid of a minute bit of frustration..
Edited by marshbags, 2006-09-23 17:17:03.
Posted 2006-09-23 17:31:11
If someone is caught dealing drugs, their house, land, car and property are taken by the Government. It matters not if it is their first or thousandth time dealing, everything they own is taken, even that which was gained legally. Perhaps the same principle should apply to Thaksin.
Posted 2006-09-23 17:58:34
PEOPLE! SHEESH!!
All this speculation, innuendo, and idle gossip is great for ranting and getting it out of your system, but PLEASE! Get real!
Everyone deserves their day in court. What nobody wants is more law breaking, rule bending, and sneaky underhanded dealing. If Thaksin has committed crimes, the leaders of the coup seem obviously intent to let due process of the law handle it, fairly and properly. Wouldn't that be better than sinking the T tugboat through alledged actions like T himself has done?
Now, if T and or family has trucked over certain amount of money or valuables in under a given time out of the country, that is a violation of the law. Check with the legal experts as to the limitations. That is fine. Nobody is going to nail down and be able to reclaim all of the alledged ill gotten gains. The criminal acts, properly investigated and prosecuted, are the real purpose here. Anything else is being vindictive.
Please take note: The coup leaders left the criminal courts in place. The entire legal system is alive and well. The King has placed his confidence in the courts. The coup leaders have cleaned up the police department. Obviously, they want the legal system to continue functioning. As far as coups go, this is very significant. Please take this into account before persecuting people.
Edited by The Snark, 2006-09-23 18:05:39.
Posted 2006-09-23 18:00:47
Good luck I expect most of its safely out of the country in off shore accounts.
Posted 2006-09-23 18:09:57
britmaveric, on 2006-09-23 18:00:47, said: Good luck I expect most of its safely out of the country in off shore accounts.
I mean no disrespect to the poster I quote here, but this is exactly what we do not need. Idle speculation.
The profits from the Shin sales are still in Thai banks and, as I understand it, cannot be moved at this time. So what if he has moved billions off shore? What is the point?
Posted 2006-09-23 18:11:31
Just a word for his defense. I saw him once buy a hot dog at 7-11 and it looked like a fair deal to me. Hmm but i could not see his right hand . Maybe Im wrong.
Posted 2006-09-23 19:06:25
Sure they will find his wealth was ill-gotten, anything else would be a major embarrassement. May I recommend the wikipedia articles on Thaksin and the other protagonists of the current situation. It will make it clear what this great country has gotten into.
Posted 2006-09-23 21:04:48
This whole matter will need to be handled very carefully so that justice is seen to have prevailed, both in the eyes of those who are inured in Thai culture, those who are inured in Sino-Thai culture, and on the international scene. There is a lot of social cohesion and international standing riding on this matter being handled properly.
But I have confidence in the Thais' abilities to stand at the interface of West and East. After all, they have been there for quite a while.
Asia Cheese finished post #89 with:
"It really is the apples-and-bananas bit: many farangs are prone to measure things in cm or inches, while in fact (locally) it's long or short...!"
That reminded me of that superb example of diplomacy by a Don Muang air traffic controller.
She heard a request for a time check and asked the aircraft to say which airline it belonged to.
The captain asked what that had to do with what time it was, and she replied that it was her job to help aircrew by putting their minds at rest, if at all possible.
So, if he was in command of the inbound Singapore Airlines flight, she could assure him that it was 10:42 precisely, and he was exactly on schedule to land on within the margin of plus or minus thirty seconds that his employers permitted him.
But if he was in command of the inbound Air France flight, she could tell him it was mid-morning, and assure him that he would arrive in good time for lunch.
And, if he was in command of the outbound Air Asia flight to Udon Thani, she could assure him that: "Yes, it is Tuesday".
Posted 2006-09-23 21:30:25
[quote name='cclub75' date='2006-09-23 01:18:33' post='908748']
[quote name='crocodilexp' post='908744' date='2006-09-23 01:10:35']
You continue to think that it's only a "little corruption", like a bad thai tradition, a form of "exotism".
No. With Thaksin, and for the first time in the modern history of this country, corruption has reached an industrial level.
We are going to be surprised in the weeks to come... Now that officials can really conduct investigations.
Pongsak (Minister transport), Somchai.... all of them are dirty. Sisters, wife, children, cousins, step brothers of Thaksin... All of them will feel the shame of the caught thieves.
NCCC must do it swiftly. To set an example, a precedent. So future candidates will think twice.
[/quote]
Excuse me, but do you have EVIDENCE of all this wide spread corruption? Can you please give some examples together with proof, that Toxin benefitted illegally? Indistrial level corruption? Name it please. Otherwise, keep quiet.
Posted 2006-09-23 21:43:48
Arsenal, on 2006-09-23 14:29:54, said: Are they Brits? Perhaps, and it's true that the forum is over-represented with the scummier kind of PattayaBrit (fat,unsuccesful, indifferently educated ex-sex tourists now mainly visa runners saddled with a Thai "family" and often with a snub nosed ex hooker as a "wife").These people rage at Thaksin and indeed at any success or wealth legitimately aquired to compensate for their own depressing lifestyle and non-achievement.Not sure however whether the anti-wealth prejudice is reflected among Brits at home, not to the same extent anyway since Thatcher.
In any case whatever Thaksin's faults - and they are many and I'm glad he's gone-it's hard to sustain the charge his wealth was acquired illegitimately.Indeed by the standards of his predecessors he is quite clean in that respect.
I thought that racist remarks, and flaming, were against Forum rules ?
Oh, and I don't agree, that DL acquired his wealth legitimately. Although I am fat, UK-educated and have an adorable wife & kids who hold Thai nationality. Of which I'm very proud.
Posted 2006-09-23 21:51:10
It seems that this thread is going a little awry. Please stay within the forum guidelines and try not to deviate from the subject matter.
Chon
BANGKOK: -- The Council for Democratic Reform (CDR) yesterday issued an announcement ordering the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) Ministry to control the distribution of all information media deemed harmful to the provisional military council now in control of the country. It said the ministry must control, stop, block and destroy any information in the form of articles, statements, wording of any sort, that are published and sent through any media that would be harmful to democratic reform.
However, a source at the ICT Ministry said that so far it had not blocked any website known to support the former regime, adding that some had already shut themselves down temporarily.
--TNA 2006-09-21
NOTE TO OUR MEMBERS:
All media was today ordered by ICT to exercise censorship of any news critical of the coup-makers and the new military regime. Offenders face up to six months in jail, a fine of up to Bt10,000, or both.
This also prohibit Thaivisa to publish such content. We kindly ask our members to refrain from posting sensitive political content. We reserve the rights to delete content that could be dangerous for the operation of our website. We have to do a bit of self-censorship here so we don't get into trouble. Thanks for your understanding.
/Admin
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