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[1900]

Part of the story I don't find clear is my case.  Got here way before 2003, have California State teaching credential, 25 years experience but my present WP is 5 months old.  Will they count all the other WPs from the past?

This is new rule insane!  I can earn 60+K a year in California but I like it here, have no Thai wife but I don't drink and whore around, keep a lo pro, got a stack of letters of recommendation, no legal hassles in either country, treat Thais with respect .. isn't that enough?  Do they expect more from a teacher at 33,000 a month?

[Boatabike]

The way i have heard it is yes. If you have been working for more than 3 years you will still have to submit your documents but it will go no further than that. Part of what is happening is to weed out those without any WP. If you have been working for the time scale you say then unless you have changed jobs a lot and the trail has been broken at some point, if all your paper work is in order there really should be no problem at all. Then again anything could happen. Good luck to you.

Edit
if you have teaching creds too, then that will also exempt you from further action. You should be fine go get a good night sleep with no worry.

Edited by Boatabike, 2006-11-04 23:58:15.

[1900]

That's nice.  Thank you, although I can sleep through a world war without chemic inducement.

[Moonhunteruk]

just a quick check as i have read through all 4 pages so far and no one seamed to mention the 500 baht fee, i submitted all my docs today along with the 500 baht fee, was told the exam was on thai language and some english but nothing more.

Did anyone else have to pay this fee or was the Englsih dept on the fiddle?



Mike

[Scott]

No, the fee is legitimate.  Anyone licensed before June 2003 does not have to pay the fee--they will get a new teacher's license after their documents are submitted.  Those after the 2003 cut-off date have to pay the 500 baht fee.

[Scott]

There is some confusion as to why the rules are being changed now and why the June 2003 is magical.  In 2003, they changed the rules for Teacher's Licensing.  Since that time, they have been working on the Licensing of Thai Teachers.  Like foreign teachers, the Thai's had lots of people who were licensed without degrees--either two year certificates etc.  They changed the rules on them.  Those before that time were allowed to continue with their license.  New ones, however, had to meet the new criteria.  

The Thai portion is complete, so now it's our turn.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think we need to have a serious and detailed discussion about the new teacher's requirements and regulations that may or may not be in place now.  On some other websites, bits and pieces of the rules have already been posted.  Does anyone have the whole slew of them, and could you please link to them or post them here?

I will "control" posts that take us unduly in the direction of "do you have to have a degree to bake a cake?" but it isn't my desire to stifle debate.  Any information that is genuinely helpful in interpreting details of the new policy is welcome.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

I am shamelessly stealing this from the Antithesis at Ajarn, to whom all we teachers owe a lot:

Quote

Translation

The Teachers’ Council Thailand

Standards, Methods of Testing and Knowledge Evaluation of Foreigners Applying for Teacher Permits 2006

Clause 1: In this announcement, ‘permit applicant’ means foreigners who are applying for a teacher permit. ‘Foreigners’ means people not of Thai nationality.

Clause 2: Requirements in the testing and knowledge evaluation of foreign applicants for a teacher permit consist of the following:

2.1. Language and Thai culture.

2.2 Professional Ethics

2.3 Pedagogical Knowledge
(Translators note: ‘pedagogical knowledge’ is defined in another official document elsewhere and is omitted here for brevity and sanity)

Clause 3: Permit applicants who have at least one year of teaching experience must pass only 2.1 and 2.2 in the testing and knowledge evaluation requirements listed above and hold one of the qualifications that follow:

3.1 A degree related to Education, or;

3.2 A degree from another field and teacher registration from the applicant’s respective country or;

3.3 A degree from any other field and certification related to Education which took at least one year to complete.

Clause 4: In cases where the permit applicant holds a degree in a field other than Education and has at least one year of teaching experience, but does not have teacher’s registration from his/her respective country nor a certificate in the field of Education- which took at least one year to complete- the permit applicant must pass 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 in the testing and evaluation requirements listed above and here for convenience:

2.1. Language and Thai culture.

2.2 Professional Ethics

2.3 Pedagogical Knowledge
(Translators note: pedagogical knowledge is defined in another document elsewhere and is omitted here for brevity and sanity)

Clause 5: Upon the successful completion of the evaluation requirements listed in clauses 3 or 4, the permit applicant has within three years to lodge the application for a teacher permit. The application must be lodged with copies of the following documents…

__________________

It is apparently a translation of a document scanned and posted as follows:





Further helpful comments by Zehner continue:

Quote

here's the gist of it as far as i can tell.

Teachers appointed prior to 12th june 2003 can apply for the license by themselves. They need to supply a photocopy of educational qualifications. They do not have to do the thai language, culture, and ethics ( ) training.

All teachers appointed after 11th june 2003 (very basically) have to supply a letter certifying assessment and evaluation criteria.

The educational qualifications bit means a B.Ed or PGCE equivilant as far as i can tell. If you don't have this then you will have to do a course (which has not been set) and sit an exam consisting of 4 papers:

Paper 1 - language and technology for teachers
- educational innovation and information communication technology

Paper 2 - Curriculum development
- learning management
-classroom management

Paper 3 - academic assessment and evaluation
-educational research

Paper 4 - psychology for teachers
- professionalship (?) of teachers

Pass is average of 50%
----------------------------

The people who were appointed after 2003 will all have to do the thai language, culture and ethics course.

The structure of this is:

3.1 Thai language and culture area - 14 periods
1) thai society
2)thai language and culture
3)thai etiquette
4)thai arts and music

3.2 Professional ethics area - 6 periods

Total : 20 periods

Evaluation criteria: pass or not pass.

and furthermore:

Quote

here's the course outline for the thai language, culchhhuurrr and professional ethics programme.

***please grit your teeth***


4.1 thai society (4 periods)
thai society in the past and present
structure of thai society
thais' way of life
thai politics and government
environment
thai local wisdom

4.2 thai language and culture (6 periods)
thai language in everyday life
thais' beliefs, norm and personality characteristics
thai costumes, food and traditional games
thais' behave in accordance with buddhism  

4.3 thais etiquette (2 periods)
the practice of thai physical disposition etiquette (?????)
formal and informal saluting,sitting,standing,standing up wai
gestures paying homage to the 3 gems, buddhist places and objects of worship
objects of worship
gestures with the seniority
approching and presenting objects to and receiving objects from the seniority

4.4 thai music and arts (2 periods)
local arts in the regions
value of the beauty and uniqueness of local arts
features and identity of thai music instruments
thai traditional dances, thai literature and sports

4.5 professional ethics (6 periods)
professional standards and ethics
important provisions of teachers ciouncil nad educational personnel act b.e. 2546
the importance of professional ethics
behaviour according to one's ethcis
ethics towards those recieving service, those in the same profession and towards the society

As far as I can tell, this is the bulk of hard information out there right now.  Any other tidbits or interpretation would be most welcome.  This is affecting most schools which employ foreigners legally, including mine.

Has anyone been through the whole "process" yet, and either rejected or stamped "approved" and given a gold star to wear in his/her navel?

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks to Ijustwannateach (You shameless man!).

The problem here is that nobody is the same; we're each unique.  Even if the exact same bureaucrat  interprets 198 candidates for this teacher's license, and is consistent and gets a good night sleep each time, he'll be confused.  Cecil will have a degree from England that's written in English, but isn't a degree in English, and Hermione will have been to some unknown uni in northern Wales or Ireland that counts semesters/quarters/credits in Gaelic, and Homer from Muskogee, Oklahoma will have credits from "Sock-jock" (South Oklahoma City junior College; I really earned credits there!).  How do you evaluate 126 different kinds of acadmic transcripts on 1903 different subjects like SOC OF EDUC 303b?

Let the games begin...

[Robski]

[quote name='Ijustwannateach' date='2006-11-20 15:44:55' post='993377']
The educational qualifications bit means a B.Ed or PGCE equivilant as far as i can tell. If you don't have this then you will have to do a course (which has not been set) and sit an exam consisting of 4 papers:

Paper 1 - language and technology for teachers
- educational innovation and information communication technology

Paper 2 - Curriculum development
- learning management
-classroom management

Paper 3 - academic assessment and evaluation
-educational research

Paper 4 - psychology for teachers
- professionalship (?) of teachers

Pass is average of 50%
----------------------------[quote]

Very interesting if these test are for those who do not  is have a degree, as it seems to be worded.

I await further news on this point .

[Loaded]

Many Thai school associations are protesting strongly against this. I believe it will be shelved. It's unworkable for a number of reasons already stated on other threads.

Thai schools won't be able to survive with the new proposed regulations. They will scupper the proposals.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm just waiting for the explanation of how my ability to point out important features of Thai musical instruments adds to my ability to teach, say, math.

[mbkudu]

Can anybody name any other country in the world that requires these parameters for a teaching job?
I'm just asking. I mean, maybe there is one somewhere.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

With all due respect, what good does this serve?  What does it prove?  Who is actually responsible for this?

Currently there is not one job listed on ajarn.com that pays more than 60,000 a month.  Do the MoD really expect to attract BEds and PGCEs on this sort of money?

[araiwhat]

The Dan Sai Kid, on 2006-11-20 22:12:57, said:

With all due respect, what good does this serve?  What does it prove?  Who is actually responsible for this?

Currently there is not one job listed on ajarn.com that pays more than 60,000 a month.  Do the MoD really expect to attract BEds and PGCEs on this sort of money?

what are you talking about?

Clause 4: In cases where the permit applicant holds a degree in a field other than Education and has at least one year of teaching experience, but does not have teacher’s registration from his/her respective country nor a certificate in the field of Education- which took at least one year to complete- the permit applicant must pass 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 in the testing and evaluation requirements listed above and here for convenience.

[The Dan Sai Kid]

araiwhat, on 2006-11-20 23:01:05, said:

The Dan Sai Kid, on 2006-11-20 22:12:57, said:

With all due respect, what good does this serve?  What does it prove?  Who is actually responsible for this?

Currently there is not one job listed on ajarn.com that pays more than 60,000 a month.  Do the MoD really expect to attract BEds and PGCEs on this sort of money?

what are you talking about?

Clause 4: In cases where the permit applicant holds a degree in a field other than Education and has at least one year of teaching experience, but does not have teacher’s registration from his/her respective country nor a certificate in the field of Education- which took at least one year to complete- the permit applicant must pass 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 in the testing and evaluation requirements listed above and here for convenience.

Yes, I know.  I did read the post.  My point being that there are an awful lot of hoops to jump through to work in this country.  I really can't see why knowledge of Thai dancing and sport would be equivalent to doing a PGCE

[El Taco Loco]

I would love to discuss it. I posted these pics of the documents at the other site and was shot down as being paranoid.
So, being shellshocked, I am wary of any discussion for which proof was given....

Oh what the hel_l. Party on.

On a serious note, the provincial MOEs have no idea what they are doing. For Phuket only, we are now required to submit, in addition to transcripts, a letter from the university stating the dates of attendance for each semester attended. That was done last week and it is continously requested this week, so it is true.

KL wants a governor letter to accompany the wp3 (again, photo of KL embassy form submitted at the other site and was again disclaimed by the old timers).

It is turning into a joke. However, this joke we can play with, if they stop moving the flocking goal posts.

[El Taco Loco]

Again, for Phuket only (gotta put that disclaimer there as it may be different in Bangers)...
They are even requiring B-ed holders to go through the hoops as if they had a degree in dogology.
THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

[quote name='araiwhat' date='2006-11-20 23:01:05' post='993941']
[quote name='The Dan Sai Kid' post='993883' date='2006-11-20 22:12:57']

Clause 4: In cases where the permit applicant holds a degree in a field other than Education and has at least one year of teaching experience, but does not have teacher’s registration from his/her respective country nor a certificate in the field of Education- which took at least one year to complete- the permit applicant must pass 2.1, 2.2 and 2.3 in the testing and evaluation requirements listed above and here for convenience.
[/quote]

[Scott]

As the person trying to coordinate hiring etc at our school, this is really getting confusing!  I hope they decide what is what pretty soon.

[Petch01]

Here you have the complete translation of: "Rules and Procedures For Testing and Evaluation etc., etc." from the Teachers' Council of Thailand.

http://www.ksp.or.th...es/570-8429.pdf

Petch01

Edited by Petch01, 2006-11-21 10:57:08.

[Ijustwannateach]

Thanks, Petch!

[Petch01]

Ijustwannateach, on 2006-11-21 11:05:44, said:

Thanks, Petch!

Very welcome. The website is http://www.ksp.or.th...npage/index.php

Strange but the English links don't work.

My documents for the application were submitted on Thursday 16th November 2006. I'll keep you informed about the results.

Petch01

Edited by Petch01, 2006-11-21 11:19:47.

[Robski]

Petch01, on 2006-11-21 10:56:26, said:

Here you have the complete translation of: "Rules and Procedures For Testing and Evaluation etc., etc." from the Teachers' Council of Thailand.

http://www.ksp.or.th...es/570-8429.pdf

Petch01

Thankyou Petch, normally clarity has the effect of putting me at ease, but that did just the opposite.

64 million dollar question, and this is where a homer simpson emoticon would come in handy, how can I get the untranslated transcript? it would be very helpful to have it when I try to explain to my GF why I'm going to be packing my bags soon.

[Robski]

Petch01, on 2006-11-21 11:19:14, said:

Ijustwannateach, on 2006-11-21 11:05:44, said:

Thanks, Petch!

Very welcome. The website is http://www.ksp.or.th...npage/index.php

Doh! the homer emoticon is mine!

I guess you just answered the question while I was typing my previous post.

[adjan jb]

PeaceBlondie, on 2006-11-20 15:58:19, said:

The problem here is that nobody is the same; we're each unique.  
Cecil will have a degree from England that's written in English, but isn't a degree in English, and Hermione will have been to some unknown uni in northern Wales or Ireland that counts semesters/quarters/credits in Gaelic, and Homer from Muskogee, Oklahoma will have credits from "Sock-jock" (South Oklahoma City junior College; I really earned credits there!).  How do you evaluate 126 different kinds of acadmic transcripts on 1903 different subjects like SOC OF EDUC 303b?

Let the games begin...

And you have only mentioned native English teachers. To add to the nightmare, there are also thousands of Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, German, Korean, Spanish and French teachers out there.