169 replies to this topic
Posted 2006-11-18 08:25:25
 DrFisher, on 2006-11-17 15:26:42, said:
"I believe that the tourist visa rules are designed to prevent people from living and working in Thailand with out paying taxes. Or running a business or working for a business legal or not that does not pay the required Taxes or Social Insurance on it workers."
That is exactly correct. Thailand isn't trying to keep people out, just trying to make them honest.
How long is long enough as a tourist?
I should think 90 days is enough time in Thailand as a tourist.
We all know most people doing the border runs are not being honest about their actual intentions so, I'm not sure why foreigners get angry with the Thai's when in fact the foreigners are breaking the law.
This is not our country; we are guests here and must follow the rules. The reason for the "crack down" is because, many of us don't follow the rules and it makes it bad for everyone. The lack of respect I have seen towards Thai officials doesn't help either.
Lack of respect is not limited to guests. If you beleive it is you must not work often in Thailand. Knowing the ropes is not the same as having respect.
I am all for following consitent laws. Changing them frequently helps no one. And changing laws that apply backwards from the points of implementation does not lend to stability. If you don't see a little xenophobia here then you are not paying attention. Many countries, not all, but many have laws against this type of behavior. The new interpretation of these laws has already affected how I do business. Not from the context of having to become compliant...but from the perspective of taking a wait and see approach now. Thailands approach can go either way. It can make an effort to bring people into compliance and shoot for a less corrupt method of doing things or it can make it to difficult to do business when you look at the risk/reward ratios.
If this doesn't give you pause than I am not sure you are noticing the pending undercurrents of these moves. This is not all xenophobia but some of it surely is. If Xenophobia takes hold, which is always possible during this type of upheaval then you have very serious problems.
When they came for my neighbor I said nothing. When they came for my friends I said nothing. When they came for my family it was to late. Maybe a little overly dramatic but it could end up not far from how things work out. I think this to be unlikely but Nationalism has its downsides. Xeonophobia is one of them.
Posted 2006-11-18 08:26:25
Jeddah Jo, on 2006-11-18 02:41:56, said: Just spent a lovely week in Singapore, what a delightful civilised country with friendly honest people. Arriving back in Thailand I felt a tightening in the chest because I knew all the rip-offs, over pricing, scams ahead of me (and that was just getting out of the airport).
It really does bewilder me why so many people are so keen to stay in this country. Especially if it is just to associate with the vermin that are commonly known as bar-girls.
My days in Thailand are certainly numbered. They are overplaying their hand big time.
Many, if not most of the bargirls work to send money to their poverty stricken family.
Hardly vermin in my opinion.
As for the girls that con people - you will come across those in all walks of life - not just in bars and certainly in Singapore as well.
I for one will be delighted when you leave. 
Edited by dsfbrit, 2006-11-18 08:44:11.
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Posted 2006-11-18 08:31:18
I don't think its the ex-pat community that keeps these places running, only if they lose the genuine tourists
Posted 2006-11-18 08:31:36
ourmanflint, on 2006-11-18 08:13:45, said: Seems there are a few here that think I should be happy with three months as a tourist and just go home.
It's a great attitude isn't it? "I'm alright Jack"
Yes, you've been told now, not only by the Thai Immigration, but by other members on here.
90 days and you're out! That's long enough for you, you've travelled enough now, GO HOME!
Posted 2006-11-18 08:37:16
lopburi3, on 2006-11-17 18:49:21, said: Quote I would add to your informative list expats 50 and over who cannot meet the new retirement rules because their pension is not large enough to reach 40K per month income (average pension of US citizen is just over US$1000 now). Previously, many could have put 400K in the bank and received a long term visa solution. The govt. knew this, and removed that option.
The rules were and are 65k income/800k bank deposit or a combination of the two for retirement extension of stay for those over age 50. The only change is the requirement that the 800k, if using that, is in the bank at least 3 months (to prevent extension day loans).
I have had a workpermit for several years but due to Tsunami the balancesheet april2005-march2006 looked rather bad and that was reason to say you cannot get extension of visum.
I have the additional problem of having Lumbago so I could drive a bike but not walk.
Due to pain I couldnt see myself going to any embassy as I can hardly walk to the toilet.
One extension later (letter from doctor) I got a week extra and as I was still in hospital I got 2 weeks extra. Doesnt help as it costs me 1900 baht etc per extensaion and at present I still feel as bad as before. I have in the meantime merged several bankbooks into one to get the 800000 as if I cannot work, I retire! Immigration said acc to girlfriend but you need to have 800000 in the bank for 3 months before you can use it.... Is that true?
The way I feel now, being back home, I have problem getting to the toilet 5 m away let alone going to Malaysia for a visum run.
Suggestions welcome. I paid the tax, social security for the company, I still do....
Posted 2006-11-18 08:43:11
tropo, on 2006-11-18 07:44:57, said: DrFisher, on 2006-11-18 06:26:42, said:
How long is long enough as a tourist?
I should think 90 days is enough time in Thailand as a tourist.
Why should you think that?
I know many people like myself that are perpetual tourists. How? We make our living using the Internet. All I need is a reliable internet connection and I'm able to be a tourist anywhere.
I haven't lived in my home country for many years, and don't need to.
Here's an interesting question. If I use the Internet in Thailand, should I be paying taxes on my trading profits?
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You need a workpermit and pay tax and VAT as your services are likely not in Thailand.
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I know one guy that lives in Asia that works for a large international company that thinks he is living in Florida. The Internet is an amazing thing. You should get with the times. Internet trading, Internet banking, ATMs...it all makes 'global nomading' a new reality.
If Thailand draws the line at 90 days, so be it, time to move on.
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As its exactly these kind of loopholes they are trying to prevent better start looking....
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Posted 2006-11-18 08:50:28
SPALAX, on 2006-11-18 01:50:27, said: We all can be worried and sorry about these strange new rules. However let us not forget about what the thai citizens can experience everyday at our dear old farang consulates in Bangkok.
We can be ashamed.
No welcome.No information. A lot of papers and then NO...!
What can we expect from Thailand :
We get what we deserve Not the smartest thing to see it that way,you can't compare that,Thailand is a 3rd world country,if Thais want to go to USA or Europe or Australia,they have most of the time different intentions then americans if apply for a tourist visa
Posted 2006-11-18 08:50:36
dsfbrit, on 2006-11-18 08:26:25, said: Jeddah Jo, on 2006-11-18 02:41:56, said:
Just spent a lovely week in Singapore, what a delightful civilised country with friendly honest people. Arriving back in Thailand I felt a tightening in the chest because I knew all the rip-offs, over pricing, scams ahead of me (and that was just getting out of the airport).
It really does bewilder me why so many people are so keen to stay in this country. Especially if it is just to associate with the vermin that are commonly known as bar-girls.
My days in Thailand are certainly numbered. They are overplaying their hand big time.
Many, if not most of the bargirls work to send money to their poverty stricken family.
Hardly vermin in my opinion.
As for the girls that con people - you will come across those in all walks of life - not just in bars and certainly in Singapore as well.
I for one will be delighted when you leave.
I quite agree with the last remark.
I have worked in Singapore and not sure but wait the day you need a permit signed an stamped in triplcate for wanting to sneeze....
Singapore is nice but for sure I wouldnt want to live there.
Posted 2006-11-18 09:14:37
SPALAX, on 2006-11-18 01:50:27, said: We all can be worried and sorry about these strange new rules. However let us not forget about what the thai citizens can experience everyday at our dear old farang consulates in Bangkok.
We can be ashamed.
No welcome.No information. A lot of papers and then NO...!
What can we expect from Thailand :
We get what we deserve
Well said Spalax
Cheers
Vivek
Posted 2006-11-18 09:15:40
Ned, on 2006-11-17 18:31:36, said: They may decide you are no longer an asset (more of a social burden).
I wish they would sit down to decide whether I'm an asset or a social burden. Rignt now you have to be either rich, or employed by a major corporation. "Dear sir; we understand that you are a poor hippie with no employer. But you turn sand into gold, and you're feeding seven Thai people. Let's make a deal."
Posted 2006-11-18 09:23:49
llothar, on 2006-11-18 04:56:07, said: LITE BEER, on 2006-11-17 20:51:18, said:
Why waste time thinking about it? Just comply with the law.
Because the law says that this is okay. There is no written time limit for how long you can stay as a tourist. Europe has this in there law, Thailand not.
So why are the people in the consulates doing this? Rassism against farangs? Revenge for some additional work they have to do? Stupidity? Well i think it is the last.
Why don't you get the laws changed in Europe so that asians can stay long enough as much as they want on tourist visas, can work without proper permists because they bring some initial investment? If you say that you contribute to the economy of Asia, same way when asians work in West they also contribute to the economy. why do you cry that these asians take away the jobs and works which are rightfully (what you feel) yours? isn't is rassism against asians/africans/coloured or anyone belonging to developing country??????
Cheers
Vivek
Posted 2006-11-18 09:31:22
tracer0, on 2006-11-18 08:43:11, said: Here's an interesting question. If I use the Internet in Thailand, should I be paying taxes on my trading profits?
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You need a workpermit and pay tax and VAT as your services are likely not in Thailand.
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If Thailand draws the line at 90 days, so be it, time to move on.
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As its exactly these kind of loopholes they are trying to prevent better start looking....
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What loophole?
Did you not understand? There are no services involved. My profits come from my US stock and options trading accounts. The profits are channeled to bank accounts in other countries. International ATM's provide me with my living money here. My income is no different than any other income derived from abroad.
I will not be moving until I find out for sure whether or not back-to-back tourist visas will be issued next year....so if it's ok with you, I'll stay put for the time being. There's no stress about finding other countries, there are many.
Posted 2006-11-18 09:38:50
AndyCanfield, on 2006-11-18 09:15:40, said: Ned, on 2006-11-17 18:31:36, said:
They may decide you are no longer an asset (more of a social burden).
I wish they would sit down to decide whether I'm an asset or a social burden. Rignt now you have to be either rich, or employed by a major corporation. "Dear sir; we understand that you are a poor hippie with no employer. But you turn sand into gold, and you're feeding seven Thai people. Let's make a deal."
If you weren't feeding those 7 people they would have been dead by now. right? there is a old saying in my country, "The dog walking under the cart normally thinks he's carrying the cart"
Cheers
Vivek
Posted 2006-11-18 09:38:59
samuislander, on 2006-11-18 05:33:09, said: I have lived and worked LEGALLY in Thailand for almost 20 years.
I have a company that pays it's taxes.
I pay my taxes, and get a refund every year.
The process is a pain to be sure, but it is a process and the law.
I have now opted for a multiple entry Non "B" visa because of the problem with the work permit expiring with the visa and during the process the 1 year visa can take 4-5 months to be issued which during this time you have to renew the work permit 4-5 times, I would rather go out on a short holiday every 3 months, when I come back get the work permit renewed. Also don't need to report address to Immigration every 3 months.
I have no problem with Non"B" visa's being issued AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A VALID WORK PERMIT
You must bring the work permit when you apply and have a copy of Every page signed and stamped.
Other documents are provided by my bookkeeper as required by the regulations.
Never a problem, never a question, and yes just got a new Non "B" last month.
I believe that the tourist visa rules are designed to prevent people from living and working in Thailand with out paying taxes. Or running a business or working for a business legal or not that does not pay the required Taxes or Social Insurance on it workers.
The moral is know and follow the rules and the process although strange sometimes and changes at times works.
If i fix a wheel to myself am i immune from paying tax? You know just like all the Thai food businesses. If the govt is that concerned with collecting taxes, they need to clean their closet out first.
Posted 2006-11-18 09:47:14
Krub, on 2006-11-18 07:58:09, said:
Morning all,
To tell the truth I havent been giving the visa changes much thought up until recently and I am now wondering if my own situation is affected.
I am married to a Thai (western marriage but not yet Thai marriage) I work in China and rotate every 28 days between China and Thailand, spending my "off time" in Thailand with my wife, we also periodically return to Australia for short breaks.
I just land in Bangkok airport and get a 30 days visa as normal, but is there a risk of one day turning up at the counter to be told that I have exceeded the amount of entries into Thailand?
Also, should I decide to take a month off work and wish to stay for 90 days would this entail an application and approval prior to landing in Thailand?
I was also wondering if there is any benefit at this stage formalising the marriage in Thailand in respect to length of stay, ease of multple entry applications etc
Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks Andy
Posted 2006-11-18 09:51:54
60-day tourist visas are available in Tokyo for only 3,000 yen, which is about 900 baht. However, you must show your ticket to Thailand (one-way ticket is okay) as well as a statement of balance from your bank, to prove funds. An ATM printout will not do for this one, you will need a signed statement from your bank.
Although the requirements are lengthier than in Singapore and Malaysia, having multiple tourist visas from the same year does not seem to be a problem.
Posted 2006-11-18 10:04:47
the pleiadian, on 2006-11-17 08:30:45, said: I remembered I accompanied a trip with another Swedish friend to Yangon and he went to Thai Yangon embassy try to get double visa, it was about 3 months ago. And they told them Yangon embassy is for Myanmar people to go to Thailand and not for the purpose of issuing visa to other foreigners. My friend asked for this time a single visa, but they refused him as well repeating that Yangon embassy is for people of Myanmar only. They told them to get else where.
About the foreign exodus, i think it has already begun. My Bangkok sevice apartment is very empty. The manager said it has never been like this slow in his memory. He said maybe due to the military coup and also became confusing and troublesome for long stay in Thailand. I am leaving in Jan as well and be back to Asia in sep 2007 and i hope not to see deserted Sukumvit, Silom, Pattaya, with all the neon signs turned off. 
The exodus has begun in my opinion. We have a small takeaway shop amongst 25 beer bars on Loi Kroh Road in Chiang Mai. There are no single men tourists in the bars. At first i thought it was just our centre but now I can see it is most of the bars. I thought it was the coupe but now from what i read above im realising it is the Visas not been issued to single men. They want their package tourists and thats what they have getting. Loads of em up here . They walk around and dont spend a brass razoo on the small businesses. I dont understand why the Government want this type of tourist as they eat only in the hotels etc which are mostly foreign owned.
Anyway Ive had enough of Thailand after 6 years. Its obvious to me they want westerners out and I will respect that request. Moving the wife and two kids to Oz as soon as I can. Have very little interest in returning . I find their small mindness too much to take anymore. One prediction that i will make is that the next step will be the removal of Beer Bars and Go Go Bars. This will begin in Chiang Mai first and then be a policy over Thailand. Personally I dont blame them for wanting to do this and clean the place up but the way they go about things is ludicrous.
Good luck to all with your visas.
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Posted 2006-11-18 10:08:00
Hmmm.... what I dont quite get here is why everyone is whining about "tough" VISA rules in Thailand.
Since they are not that tough in any which way i look at it, they are STILL very liberate ...
Except if you want to stay there illegaly, and they are still liberate if you compare to other places.
Allthough......
You should allready be clear that before the new VISA Rules this was the fact.
Thailand wants Tourists!
Thailand do NOT WANT FARANGS to LIVE in Thailand (if they are not rich)
Thailand do not want criminal farangs to live in Thailand (unless they are rich)
Thailand want their investment money to stay inside Thailand (unless you are rich or super rich)
After these new rules:
Thailand wants Tourists!
Thailand do NOT WANT FARANGS to LIVE in Thailand (if they are not rich)
Thailand do not want criminal farangs to live in Thailand unless they are rich
Thailand want their investment money to stay inside Thailand (unless you are rich)
So the difference is ?
Very clear...
You can from now on not live in Thailand as a Farang if you are not rich :-)
So all non criminal Thais that are involved in Thailand and loves Thailand but
tries to live a good life for a small penny they are indeed no longer welcome to the
land of smiles aka Thailand... its a pity since I have studied Thai for 2 years and
had a vision of staying there, as far as these new fascist rules goes I would say
I am glad Laos still is communist.
Its sad, because I think that what they are aiming at if they are aiming at anything else
than more money through real VISAS is that they want to get rid of the "criminal" elements
that lives in Thailand with Tourist VISA:s but ...
Its a tough act but its too weak to get rid of the criminals if thats their purpose.
If they want more money from VISA:s why dont they keep the old rules but
make a VISA fee for 20$ for every VOA instead that would be so much easier...
I would say the whole VISA rule thing is a typical "I dont know what to do but lets do something and see what happens thing" its not very well thought through and they need to
thighten up some parts more and make the life of descent people that are ok easier.
It can be done I am sure ...
//Ming
Edited by christher69, 2006-11-18 10:14:56.
Posted 2006-11-18 10:12:26
SiriusBlack1, on 2006-11-18 09:51:54, said: 60-day tourist visas are available in Tokyo for only 3,000 yen, which is about 900 baht. However, you must show your ticket to Thailand (one-way ticket is okay) as well as a statement of balance from your bank, to prove funds. An ATM printout will not do for this one, you will need a signed statement from your bank.
Although the requirements are lengthier than in Singapore and Malaysia, having multiple tourist visas from the same year does not seem to be a problem.
Maybe I am slow, but I heard that the tourist visas now is issued for 90 days and NOT 60, as you all put it. Am I wrong? 
Posted 2006-11-18 10:15:39
nyles, on 2006-11-18 10:12:26, said: SiriusBlack1, on 2006-11-18 09:51:54, said:
60-day tourist visas are available in Tokyo for only 3,000 yen, which is about 900 baht. However, you must show your ticket to Thailand (one-way ticket is okay) as well as a statement of balance from your bank, to prove funds. An ATM printout will not do for this one, you will need a signed statement from your bank.
Although the requirements are lengthier than in Singapore and Malaysia, having multiple tourist visas from the same year does not seem to be a problem.
Maybe I am slow, but I heard that the tourist visas now is issued for 90 days and NOT 60, as you all put it. Am I wrong?
was a reporting mistake by a newspaper..Still standard 60 day per entry TV only with provision to extend up to 30 days or less depending on your nationality
Posted 2006-11-18 10:17:58
[/quote]
I know many people like myself that are perpetual tourists. How? We make our living using the Internet. All I need is a reliable internet connection and I'm able to be a tourist anywhere.
I haven't lived in my home country for many years, and don't need to.
[/quote]
Ditto.
Posted 2006-11-18 10:24:38
Please keep the profanity and illegal suggestions out of posts. Thanks. Several have been removed.
Posted 2006-11-18 10:31:53
i agree with the post earlier, lets wait until january to see what happens, you know how this country changes on a daily basis. 
Posted 2006-11-18 10:42:20
[/quote]
Sure, there are embassies all over the world. The point you haven't quite grasped is that all of the neighboring countries, if they will issue a tourist visa, have made anything over a single entry unobtainable (maybe with the exception of KL as some have reported success there in obtaining 2 -entry TVs).
Add to that the 1,900 baht extension and 3 visa runs at around 2200 each. For a 6-month stay, that's around 20,000 baht, 5 full days work plus time down at the Immigration Office to get one extension.
[/quote]
I am not saying this is good news but your scenario would indicate about 3,300 baht a month average cost to stay in the kingdom for 1 year. That's not so terrible. You can cut back a little on bar girls and booze and maybe shop a little harder and smarter and save that without any real change in standard of living.
If your complaining about missing work in Pattaya and don't have a B visa and work permit then yeah the government is targeting you. If on the other hand your under 50 and don't work and have free time then 4 or so visa runs a year is not that bad. Kinda breaks up the monotony of goofing around everyday.
Edited by CobraSnakeNecktie, 2006-11-18 10:44:44.
Posted 2006-11-18 10:46:44
tropo, on 2006-11-18 08:00:33, said: It takes away my choice to go where I want to when I want to because they are single-entry TV's that allow 60 days if you don't leave before your sixty days are up. What say I needed to exit Thailand after a few weeks into my 60 days for some reason or other (shit happens). In that case I've basically wasted my time getting a visa and will need to start again. TV's are very inflexible.
Is it possible to get a re-entry prermit if you have a single entry tourist visa and have to leave unexpectedly? If you have a single entry non-imm visa you can get a single or multiple re-entry permit which will allow you to leave and return during your allowed permission to stay time without problem. Is this possible with a TV?
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