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[wasanajones]

tuk tuk drivers are not respected by local Thais either, and are generally considered to be liars and cheats... that is from my Thai wife...

Yes, there are exceptions to this - with many great and wonderful people operating taxis and tuk tuks -- but stereotypes come from somewhere...and reputations are earned...

I wonder how much more anti-foreigner 'big mouth' backlash we're going to see - i.e. the monarch's 'farang pudt maak'

[Bill]

While there is very little that can be constructively said of this "news", due to the pathetic reporting, at least one thing can be taken away from it: if you get into an altercation with a Thai, make sure he's down for the count before walking away.  It's the only way to be sure he won't try to save face by skewering you.  

[tod-daniels]

It is a sad fact that more altercations, problems, and disagreements arise here in the proverbial Land 'O Smiles between farangs & thais because of alcohol than any other reason.

Without the real facts, which may never come out, the story is anecdotal of how fast a disagreement over something trivial can escalate into something all to serious.

Given that most tuk-tuk, taxi and moto operators are from the lower class of society, usually poorly educated, etc it is easy to see how a situation as outlined in the article could go south quickly.  

FACE is everything to a thai, they will become rabid animals if they perceive they have lost it, going to extraordinary means to recover it.

While I have not been here as long as some of the illustrious posters on this forum, I can say in the 2 years I've unfortunately lived between Soi Nana & Soi Cowboy, the only time I've seen problems w/thais & farangs escalate into blows, or worse, was due to alcohol induced idiocy on the farangs part.  Now granted I live in the 'steamier' part of Bangkok, and may be exposed to the vices of farangs more than most.

That said, in all the time here I have never been accosted, ripped off, or gotten into altercations w/any of the taxi, tuk-tuk, or moto drivers I have come into contact with.  If you don't have your wits about you, well, you deserve what happens.  

As one poster put it, and as a t-shirt I had made up says, "This AIN'T Kansas Toto", learn the ropes, follow a few common courtesies, & your trip here will be as problem free as any visit to a shit-hole, piss-ant, poor third world country can be.

It is interesting to see this incident used as farang bashing (which given the welsh, scotts, irish, aussie, kiwi, or anyone not from the US and their version of english may have its merits), or thai bashing (given experiences people have had).  However the moral of the story is negotiate the fare FIRST, don't be too drunk to know what is going on around you, and if you are well, som-nom-na.

[Thug]

terry57, on 2006-11-26 12:03:37, said:

Thug, on 2006-11-26 11:52:23, said:

In the state that he was, I don't he could even figure he was being robbed.

I guess this farang was drinking some Heavy lao-khao with the Tuk tuk driver.

Being a loser or not, this story clearly tells you the honesty of Tuk tuk drivers. Right?

i disagree entirely,

you are saying all tuk tuk drivers are dishonest which is a rediculous statement and worthy of no respect.

you guess the idiot farang was drinking with the tuk tuk driver.
another assumption and you do not know.

the only fact you have provided is the farang was a drunken fool.  

please provide fact and not assumption.

Please read carefully before posting.

I said about 80 to 90% of them are not honest, or Did I say all of them? Does it mean all Tuk-tuk drivers?

[robblok]

I was in Phuket a couple of days ago. The prices are crazy, according to my thai wife. That said, drunk people can act crazy. I to get drunk but never violent mostly sleepy. But there are those who get real agressive when drunk.

I wish we knew all the facts, but we dont. But the thai guy had to make effort before getting the knife that is a bad thing.

We dont know how the tourist acted but he was drunk so he could have done a lot.

I think both sides are wrong but stabbing is just a lil bit more bad then fighting.

Ow im dutch, and i have seen many drunken english. It is in their culture probably or something. I have nothing against them, but they seem to overdo it on the alcohol more often. But not all of them are like that. Just like not all Dutch are using drugs and stuff.

[cdnvic]

nasa, on 2006-11-26 11:45:17, said:

I just hate people who drink and don't know how to behave. This is one of the reason the government ban ads. about liquor.

Yeah, this guy was probably just finishing up at the flower show and on his way to a symposium on inner peace when a Singha advertisment sent him on a rampage of drinking that ended in tragedy.

Thank goodness the ads will be gone soon and people will stop getting drunk in Thailand.

[Livinginexile]

BlackJack, on 2006-11-26 10:45:49, said:

Based on whats been reported here.

I just love the Thai's - the Tuk Tuk driver went back to work  

to think that he could just melt back into the scene and not be noticed

He just stabbed someone and he went back to work - unbelievable.

Low IQ people so watch out

For sure...the Briton got into the tuk tuk without negotiating the fare first. When they arrived at the hotel the driver most probably demanded 500 bht. Common occurance around tourist areas.
The tuk tuk version, as allways, is poor ond thai worker being ripped off by big bad farang....yeah right

[terry57]

Thug, on 2006-11-26 12:22:37, said:

terry57, on 2006-11-26 12:03:37, said:

Thug, on 2006-11-26 11:52:23, said:

In the state that he was, I don't he could even figure he was being robbed.

I guess this farang was drinking some Heavy lao-khao with the Tuk tuk driver.

Being a loser or not, this story clearly tells you the honesty of Tuk tuk drivers. Right?

i disagree entirely,

you are saying all tuk tuk drivers are dishonest which is a rediculous statement and worthy of no respect.

you guess the idiot farang was drinking with the tuk tuk driver.
another assumption and you do not know.

the only fact you have provided is the farang was a drunken fool.  

please provide fact and not assumption.

Please read carefully before posting.

I said about 80 to 90% of them are not honest, or Did I say all of them? Does it mean all Tuk-tuk drivers?

thats fairly close to all of them. 80 to 90%.

but thats ok mate as your entitled to your opinion but i dont agree with it.  

[Thug]

'Opinion are like butts, each one has its own.'

[corkscrew]

Mighty Mouse, on 2006-11-26 09:52:09, said:

It was accent confusion.

Can you imagine trying to negotiate a fare between a drunken Welshman and a tuk tuk driver who can't speak English.

I can't understand a sober Welshman, let alone a drunken one...so what hope did the tuk tuk driver have????  

That IS funny!

[gmac]

[quote name='xerostar' date='2006-11-26 12:16:47' post='1003173']
Put yourself in the Tuk Tuk driver's shoes.
How would you like to be driving around at 3am picking up drunken passengers?
Then you get some twit who argues over 3 lousy bucks!
A tough way to earn a living.



Some twit who argues over "3 Lousy bucks"?  In this country 200 baht is a days wages or more to the majority of the working populace!

Sounds like easy money to me if a Tuk Tuk driver can get that much for driving a drunk around for "10 Lousy minutes".

Edited by gmac, 2006-11-26 12:37:30.

[pjallittle]

chris2155, on 2006-11-25 21:02:28, said:

who said he was drunk, the tuk driver, who said he threw the money in the tuk tuk drivers face, the tuk tuk driver,  one side of  a story  I havent heard the welsh person side so i cannot judge and nor can a lot of people here.

Absolutely right!  This is a case of bad reporting, no one can say with certaintly who did what to whom, it's all just speculation.  For all we know, the tuk tuk driver may have been backed right up against his vehicle and unable to escape his opponent, reached a foot away and grabbed his knife.  We don't know if the folding knife was open or not, do we?

To a farang, 2 bucks is a niggling amount, to a tuk tuk driver, it's like $20 bucks.  When's the last time you got a taxi in London for the UK equivalent of 200 Baht?

Then someone speaks of Thai low mentality without commenting on the base stupidity of a Welsh tourist out on the street alone at 3:30 in the morning.  How much of a genius is that?

The whole world is very aware of the antics of drunk Brits, so give these Thais a break, they've got a long way to go to catch up when it comes to hooliganism.

[Thug]

[quote name='gmac' date='2006-11-26 12:34:05' post='1003203']
[quote name='xerostar' date='2006-11-26 12:16:47' post='1003173']
Put yourself in the Tuk Tuk driver's shoes.
How would you like to be driving around at 3am picking up drunken passengers?
Then you get some twit who argues over 3 lousy bucks!
A tough way to earn a living.

Some twit who argues over "3 Lousy bucks"?  In this country 200 baht is a days wages or more to the majority of the working populace!

Sounds like easy money to me if a Tuk Tuk driver can get that much for driving a drunk around for "10 Lousy minutes".
[/quote]

Agreed.

[dotcom]

HenryB, on 2006-11-26 11:58:57, said:

Mighty Mouse, on 2006-11-26 09:52:09, said:

It was accent confusion.

Can you imagine trying to negotiate a fare between a drunken Welshman and a tuk tuk driver who can't speak English.

I can't understand a sober Welshman, let alone a drunken one...so what hope did the tuk tuk driver have????  

Welshman man drunk to much they should not be allowed out of Welshland. In my country of Pakistan we will not served the bums alcohol.

He should be put in Jail for 10 years for starting the fight.

To the mods. Please take down this racist shit. Thanks

[mallmagician]

pjallittle, on 2006-11-26 06:35:36, said:

The whole world is very aware of the antics of drunk Brits, so give these Thais a break, they've got a long way to go to catch up when it comes to hooliganism.

And all canadians have flapping heads and beady eyes.  

Come on, don't tar us all with the brush.  I get drunk from time to time, and am never violent, or cause problems.  I'm a happy drunk!  Im English, and proud to be.

For the record, I am not a football fan, but the few games I have been to (Manchester United), I have never seen violence.  I know it goes on, but it is very much in the minority.  

Brits are hooligans?  What next?  Americans loud?  Irish stupid?  

Get a grip people.  Stop being racist.  Judge every human on their own merits.  

Phil

[YaiJung]

Well, unfortunately this is Thailand and we probably won't hear ever hear what really happened.  I live outside the entrance to a hotel in Patong and I frequently hear arguments between tut tuk drivers and passengers that can usually be put down to a misunderstanding of language.  One thing is for sure...the tuk-tuk driver will say the money was "thrown in his face" because he knows that will get most thais on his side.  For all we know the welshman could have placed the money on the seat, but we will never know.  We would have to hear his side of the story.  

These tuk tuk drivers are the "scum of the earth" and its a shame they are allowed to operate at all in patong.  The reality is that the powers that be don't give a rats ass about what is happening and towns like Patong exist soley to take as much money from tourists as possible.  We as "tourists" need to recognize this fact and be aware of our surroundings.  We can still have a great time in these places, just need to be extra careful about how we deal with the locals.  One rule I've learned, and this applies to most places in the world, is to clearly establish prices first....always.  

On a side note, last night my girlfriend's son had a couple boys from our soi over to play video games.  these particular boys that were over last night are the sons of tut-tuk drivers and jet-ski rental operators.  All well behaved boys(although the tuk-tuk driver's son doesn't do "jack sh@t" at school and when asked why he doesn't care, he responds, "I am going to drive tuk tuk when I grow up").  So at 9:30pm I am sitting outside having a cup of coffee when out of nowhere this large(for thailand)thai man shows up and looks right past me to the boys and calls his son out and procedes to whip the sh$t out of him with a largish branch from a tree.  It was violent and I was shocked.  It was not just a couple of taps, it was full force, violent and abusive.  I didn't interfere because I don't fancy a knife in my chest like our welshman, although next time this boy comes over I will be sending him home at sunset instead of letting him stay later.  Anyway, this incident is just one of many that I have witnessed and I believe says alot about the lower class society in places such as Patong.  Violence is a everyday part of home life for these people.  They often react with violence seemingly minor incidents.  I know it will piss alot of people off when I say this, but the locals also have reputation for lying about anything that could possibly cause them to be held accountable for their actions.  

There are young "gangs" of boys running wild in our neighborhood causing all sorts of trouble and when u start asking who the parents are u find out pretty fast that these little trouble makers are the future tuktuk and motorbike taxi drivers of Patong.  

Its a shame that this place is let "go to hel_l" like it has been, but after all, the tourists keep pouring in and if it was orderly and "safe" it probably wouldn't attract the numbers of people that it does.  Watch your back with locals, avoid tuktuks and most things go pretty smooth(I find).  

Anyway..stay safe and have fun

YaiJung

[Foggy Bottom]

.
Only one question - Is Phuket big enough to warrant a tuk tuk fare of 200 Baht?

Up here you can hire a tuk tuk for half a day for less

Edited by Gaz Chiangmai, 2006-11-26 12:50:08.

[Johnny Dee Rock]

cdnvic, on 2006-11-26 12:24:33, said:

nasa, on 2006-11-26 11:45:17, said:

I just hate people who drink and don't know how to behave. This is one of the reason the government ban ads. about liquor.

Yeah, this guy was probably just finishing up at the flower show and on his way to a symposium on inner peace when a Singha advertisment sent him on a rampage of drinking that ended in tragedy.

Thank goodness the ads will be gone soon and people will stop getting drunk in Thailand.

THIS ONE GETS MY POST OF THE DAY AWARD!

How about this simplified analysis of events:

One Moron + one Moron = Disaster

[pjallittle]

mallmagician, on 2006-11-25 22:41:43, said:

pjallittle, on 2006-11-26 06:35:36, said:

The whole world is very aware of the antics of drunk Brits, so give these Thais a break, they've got a long way to go to catch up when it comes to hooliganism.

And all canadians have flapping heads and beady eyes.  

Come on, don't tar us all with the brush.  I get drunk from time to time, and am never violent, or cause problems.  I'm a happy drunk!  Im English, and proud to be.

For the record, I am not a football fan, but the few games I have been to (Manchester United), I have never seen violence.  I know it goes on, but it is very much in the minority.  

Brits are hooligans?  What next?  Americans loud?  Irish stupid?  

Get a grip people.  Stop being racist.  Judge every human on their own merits.  

Phil

What's racist about telling it the way it is, Phil?  Here's the number of entries in Google for the term I used:

"Results 1 - 10 of about 673,000 for British football fans riot."

http://news.bbc.co.u.../uk/4789954.stm

http://www.umich.edu...2.6/soccer.html

That's just 2 out of 673,000, the condition is so well known that books have been written on the subject.  

Is that the part  of being British you're proud of, Phil?  Facts are facts, they have nothing to do with being racist, Irish or American.  Suggest you plug the links into a browser and then tell us to get a grip.

[reddove]

Should do it more often to these crocks.  I have had that pulled on me serveral times here in Bkk and I just walk away, but some do get out and try to chase you down.  Take a few of them down, carry a blade, some rope.  Use it if it become necessary, but don't get caught or let anyone see you.

[s.pylos]

Kaojai, on 2006-11-26 10:52:28, said:

taxexile, on 2006-11-26 09:52:36, said:

its pathetic , its third world and it seriously diminishes thailands reputation around the world.

Considering the reputation that drunken Brits and British football hooligans have around the world, I would say Thailand is still ahead.

As usual, someone has fabricated a one-sided explanation of what "must"have happened and the message board court has weighed this "evidence" and found the Thai guilty and the white man a blameless innocent victim.

Of course, if a farang kills or injures a Thai, it's immediately assumed the farang was provoked and his reaction was reasonable.

It's pathetic, it's British and it seriously confirms Britain's reputation around the world.

Well Said! I particulary like the

... someone has fabricated a one-sided explanation of what "must"have happened and the message board court has weighed this "evidence" and found ....

Every thread read more or less the same. Someone read an article and give his "authorised" and "well-informed" opinion on it, no matter how little they know about the issue. All these know-it -all would do a stellar job if they could bother move away from their computer screen and get into the real political arena, instead of Armchair politic.

i would say expat at work rather than Britts!
[sandy]

Edited by s.pylos, 2006-11-26 13:19:54.

[tombarr]

I can say, from my own personal experience in Patong, that this kind of thing DOES happen.

A few years ago I got a Tuk Tuk about 10 am near the Royal Garden Hotel to go to the Doctor's office.    I was going from the area just outside Paradise Complex to an area just about 100 meters from where the police box is at the entrance to the beach from the walking street ( i don't recall the name of the street and it's closed at night for walking traffic only)....

The normal fare for this ride was 50baht..  i had taken it many times..going to the beach, restaurants along the beach etc.  

The driver demanded 100 Baht.   I told him no, the normal fare is 50 baht.   He kept insisting on 100 baht.  I told him to call the security guard who was just about 50 meters away...  he refused.   I tried to give him 50 baht.  i did not throw it in his face.   I did not do anything offensive.    He went over to his tuk tuk and grabbed a piece of wood and approached me with it.    Thinking he was just being threatening I still held my ground.     He swung and hit me in the head with the piece of wood, breaking my glasses.     The security guard watched the whole thing and did nothing.    
I then gave him the 100 baht.    He put the wood back in his Tuk Tuk and drove off.  

I went to the doctor and returned later.     I was across the street about 20 yards from the tuk tuk que where my "driver" was in the que with his fellow drivers.    I was talking to a tour guide operator and asking what the correct fare should have been, and she told me 50 baht..     The driver from earlier was standing with his coworker, or friend or boss, and they were acting out as if my driver had won a Boxing championship...holding up his arm as the champion... laughing.... the tour operator's husband saw it and went over to talk to them.      Seems the tuk tuk driver told his boss that i had assaulted him, told him his mother was a cow and flipped him the bird finger and that was why he went and got the piece of wood and hit me.

I did nothing provocative at all except to firmly refuse to be extorted.   I did not raise my voice, I did nothing physically threatening, i did not insult him or his mother...   because in my mind all the rumors about the taxis in Patong being Mafia controlled kept swirling around...and I just know that any provocation from me and I would likely end up in a ditch somewhere...  

anyway, I read this story and I know, from my similar experience, this does happen.     The Tuk Tuk driver lied in my case to justify his agressiveness....  and it is possible this one has lied too.

[johnwills]

pjallittle, on 2006-11-26 05:35:36, said:

chris2155, on 2006-11-25 21:02:28, said:

who said he was drunk, the tuk driver, who said he threw the money in the tuk tuk drivers face, the tuk tuk driver,  one side of  a story  I havent heard the welsh person side so i cannot judge and nor can a lot of people here.

The whole world is very aware of the antics of drunk Brits, so give these Thais a break, they've got a long way to go to catch up when it comes to hooliganism.

Thai's are big on Hooliganism, have you never been to see "Mulam", the last one I went to see the police and security where using shotguns to break up the fighting between rival gangs, everyone I have been to has erupted into violence at some point between drunken Thai youths.  Maybe this is only in Issan?

[JacknDanny]

pjallittle, on 2006-11-26 13:14:52, said:

mallmagician, on 2006-11-25 22:41:43, said:

pjallittle, on 2006-11-26 06:35:36, said:

The whole world is very aware of the antics of drunk Brits, so give these Thais a break, they've got a long way to go to catch up when it comes to hooliganism.

And all canadians have flapping heads and beady eyes.  

Come on, don't tar us all with the brush.  I get drunk from time to time, and am never violent, or cause problems.  I'm a happy drunk!  Im English, and proud to be.

For the record, I am not a football fan, but the few games I have been to (Manchester United), I have never seen violence.  I know it goes on, but it is very much in the minority.  

Brits are hooligans?  What next?  Americans loud?  Irish stupid?  

Get a grip people.  Stop being racist.  Judge every human on their own merits.  

Phil

What's racist about telling it the way it is, Phil?  Here's the number of entries in Google for the term I used:

"Results 1 - 10 of about 673,000 for British football fans riot."

http://news.bbc.co.u.../uk/4789954.stm

http://www.umich.edu...2.6/soccer.html

That's just 2 out of 673,000, the condition is so well known that books have been written on the subject.  

Is that the part  of being British you're proud of, Phil?  Facts are facts, they have nothing to do with being racist, Irish or American.  Suggest you plug the links into a browser and then tell us to get a grip.

And to think that OUR queen is also in charge of your country also
That you guys have to honour OUR queen WOW!!!

[Phuket_Brad]

In Patong there is no where that a 200 Baht fair is warranted!  From Soi Bangla to Soi Nanai should be a 100 Baht fare. If it was in Bangkok the taxi meter fare would be less than 50 baht for sure!

The Thai Tuk Tuk drivers in Phuket have always been the worst for tourism.  Survey after survey taken by TOT, hotels and the cities, show tourists always say they are the worst thing they come across in Phuket!

The previous Governor said at one time he would do away with them altogether, didn't happen!   When the police went to one way traffic and then wanted Soi Bangla as pedestrian street, the Tuk Tuk drivers revolted.  Some are reasonable, most are terrible and detrimental to Phuket and Thailand’s image.  When taxi meters were introduced, the Tuk Tuk drivers again intervened treating their lives!

What to do, the answer is so easy, yet so far away!!  Maybe more stories like this and then something will happen!