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Hawaii judge halts Trump's new travel ban before it can go into effect

141 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Linzz said:

Extreme vetting should be enough and avoids all these legal wrangles. 

You mean like the extreme vetting that is already in place? 2 years to process a person! Have you looked at the procedure? It is extreme vetting already, why change a system that was not broken, it may have needed some improvements that is all.

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4 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

You mean like Trump did in the Yemen? When he ordered an operation as Commander in Chief and when it went wrong and someone was killed he said it was the Generals fault! Trump has never taken responsibility for his actions in his entire life.

Using your logic any military operation with casualties is a failure? WWII using your logic was a complete failure and we should have let Germany take over Europe and left Asia to the Japanese so we would not take any casualties. People die during war (news flash) hopefully more of the other guys than our own. US Navy Seals are professional warriors, every one of them is a volunteer, and they know the risks of going into combat. 

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1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Just a thought, but maybe the POTUS could stop trying to govern using executive orders and put some bills/legislation through congress.

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

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10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

Apparently not as well established as you think. Otherwise, why wouldn't the administration have appealed Trump's original executive order all the way to the Supreme Court?

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15 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

Yes, but there is that pesky little Constitution that gets in the way of all kinds of things that The Donald wants to do.   

 

It is a commentary on his lack of skills that he cannot even write an Executive Order or implement a policy in the area of which he has brought discretionary powers.   

 

On this one, he gets a fail.   

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14 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Perhaps, but existing law and precedents on this particular question are already well established. The executive branch has authority over immigration.

Yes I agree, but in this instance the executive branch is introducing parameters not in the original legislation, a travel ban dependent on country of origin. Thats the judiciaries job, to interpret and enforce the existing legislation.

Legislation is usually long winded and written to cover lots of senarios, future developments etc, but if its not in the legislation, an executive order cant add it.

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3 hours ago, Grubster said:

I think Trump should begin to build some very large housing projects in Hawaii, then send all these immigrants there, problem solved.

 

3 hours ago, Linzz said:

Indeed it is a bit like all the Hollywood celebrities behind their mansion walls and gated communities. Plenty of outrage but will they open their doors?

 

3 hours ago, Grubster said:

No but they will open yours.

It is called the NIMBY effect, go ahead and do it just Not In My Back Yard. I guess just like the two of you want to do with the rest of the world. Let Europe and Australia etc etc pick up all the mess from the US invasion of foreign sovereign territories but don't let them come to the USA. Nice people over there.

 

I think this photo sums it up your attitudes quite nicely. Go, do whatever you want and then leave someone else to clean your crap up.

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-16 at 3.17.08 PM.png

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Andaman Al said:

A complete BS post and reply. The mission went wrong, that is a fact stated by the military commanders involved. Did I use the word failure? Nope you did. In your post you use the word 'logic' yet seem bereft of the ability to use it. The FACT is the Commander in Chief forgot the old saying "The buck stops here", instead after giving the order to conduct the operation, he blamed the Generals. THAT is a disgrace, and THAT is something unacceptable to the service men and women that serve their country. Trump expects people to give their lives, but he can't even accept responsibility from the warmth and comfort of his office. Try reading my post and applying a little comprehension, rational and 'logic' instead of shooting back from the hip with a ridiculous reply with ridiculous analogies.

He also blamed Obama.

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47 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Apparently not as well established as you think. Otherwise, why wouldn't the administration have appealed Trump's original executive order all the way to the Supreme Court?

Because the Supreme Court is currently one judge short and if tied the lower court ruling would stand. The lower court 9th circuit) is however overturned on appeal about 85% of the time (even the most liberal Supreme Court justices frequently rule against those idiots). 

 

Also so they may have lost on more narrow issues of immigration law regarding current Visa holders from those countries.

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32 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

A complete BS post and reply. The mission went wrong, that is a fact stated by the military commanders involved. Did I use the word failure? Nope you did. In your post you use the word 'logic' yet seem bereft of the ability to use it. The FACT is the Commander in Chief forgot the old saying "The buck stops here", instead after giving the order to conduct the operation, he blamed the Generals. THAT is a disgrace, and THAT is something unacceptable to the service men and women that serve their country. Trump expects people to give their lives, but he can't even accept responsibility from the warmth and comfort of his office. Try reading my post and applying a little comprehension, rational and 'logic' instead of shooting back from the hip with a ridiculous reply with ridiculous analogies.

Something going wrong could also imply failure, my point was that a single KIA incurred during the storming of a terrorist enclave is something that may occur during those types of military operations. Casualties are part of military operations and that was my point.

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Trump is clearly violating the U.S constitution but it is not something to be wondering about because George W Bush said the constitution is just a Goddamn piece of paper

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There are millions of US citizens living below the poverty level, if we can't take care of them then why should we bring others to the mix?

And this is connected to security how?

sent using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, redwinecheese said:

George W Bush said the constitution is just a Goddamn piece of paper

Unsubstantiated statement at best.

At worse a lie. There’s no record of Bush ever using these words in public and no other news organization has reported him using them privately.

http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-the-constitution-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/

But as fake news has the same credibility as Trump's pronouncements.

 

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2 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

 

 

It is called the NIMBY effect, go ahead and do it just Not In My Back Yard. I guess just like the two of you want to do with the rest of the world. Let Europe and Australia etc etc pick up all the mess from the US invasion of foreign sovereign territories but don't let them come to the USA. Nice people over there.

 

I think this photo sums it up your attitudes quite nicely. Go, do whatever you want and then leave someone else to clean your crap up.

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-16 at 3.17.08 PM.png

 

 

 

 

Take it easy. Not sure how you arrive at your conclusion when I spoke about the NIMBY effect in Hollywood despite the fact they are busy acting out hypercritical outrage. I agree that the US (and the UK) has largely caused a humanitarian crisis in countries like Yemen by supplying $ billions in arms to SA a sad legacy of the previous administration which I hope will now change but probably will be disappointed. Also I never said I agreed with the travel ban although I will not call it a muslim ban since muslims are admitted into the US every day from Europe and other countries.Extreme vetting is enough. However judges are again ruling politically based on what Trump said as a candidate  rather than what is worded in the document. They can't rule by their opinion of intent.

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3 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

 

 

It is called the NIMBY effect, go ahead and do it just Not In My Back Yard. I guess just like the two of you want to do with the rest of the world. Let Europe and Australia etc etc pick up all the mess from the US invasion of foreign sovereign territories but don't let them come to the USA. Nice people over there.

 

I think this photo sums it up your attitudes quite nicely. Go, do whatever you want and then leave someone else to clean your crap up.

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-16 at 3.17.08 PM.png

 

 

 

 

No I think we should allow them to come and they should be very happy living amongst those who really want them, Hawaii, Hollywood, Manhattan, etc. Build housing for them there, whats wrong with that. These people in this camp do not have jobs, but sure can't seem to find a way to pick up the trash. No I would rather they do not move in next to me. Thank you

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20 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Unsubstantiated statement at best.

At worse a lie. There’s no record of Bush ever using these words in public and no other news organization has reported him using them privately.

http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-the-constitution-a-goddamned-piece-of-paper/

But as fake news has the same credibility as Trump's pronouncements.

 

Unless you think Patriot Act is legitimate and does not violate the constitution! 

up to you

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42 minutes ago, stevenl said:


And this is connected to security how?

sent using Tapatalk
 

Its not, it is one of the reasons I don't want any immigrants, security is another. My grandparents were allowed to move to the US because the US wanted and needed immigrants not because Sweden was in bad shape, which it was.

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5 hours ago, jesimps said:

POTUS is becoming redundant. May as well hand all the decision making to the lefty judges. Of course unlike the president, they won't bear any of the responsibility when things go wrong.

The lunatics seem to be running the asylum in the US. Dunno why they bothered with the vote. Bit like what GM and the Lords are doing in the UK.

Like taking responsibility for accusing the previous President of wire-tapping, taking responsibility for throwing airports into chaos with a hastily-thought-out order, taking responsibility for bizarre and inaccurate remarks about Sweden, for a vague and contradictory health care plan, for soft-peddling on obvious Russian interference in the election?

 

These "lefty" judges may actually believe in constitutional integrity, rule of law and not presidential whim.

 

It is as easy to label opposition to the President as "lefty" as it is to label his supporters as blind, ignorant simpletons. Once the labels get applied the real discourse gets thrown out and all you have is prejudice parading as argument.

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4 hours ago, Ahab said:

Something going wrong could also imply failure, my point was that a single KIA incurred during the storming of a terrorist enclave is something that may occur during those types of military operations. Casualties are part of military operations and that was my point.

And my point is the buck stops with the guy that ordered the mission - ALWAYS! You don't pass it down the chain when you are Commander in Chief. Leadership and Command 101.

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2 hours ago, Grubster said:

No I think we should allow them to come and they should be very happy living amongst those who really want them, Hawaii, Hollywood, Manhattan, etc. Build housing for them there, whats wrong with that. These people in this camp do not have jobs, but sure can't seem to find a way to pick up the trash. No I would rather they do not move in next to me. Thank you

It is not a camp - that is the whole point, read carefully. This is the aftermath of a music concert, everybody happy to go in and trash the place and expect others to clean up the crap - aka USA attitude towards Middle Eastern refugees. You started this crap and now want everyone except yourselves to be responsible for the cleaning up, take some responsibility.

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3 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

It is not a camp - that is the whole point, read carefully. This is the aftermath of a music concert, everybody happy to go in and trash the place and expect others to clean up the crap - aka USA attitude towards Middle Eastern refugees. You started this crap and now want everyone except yourselves to be responsible for the cleaning up, take some responsibility.

Cleaning up after a concert is part of your ticket price. The US may have stirred the pot after 911, but saying we started this is a stretch of your imagination, I would prefer that the west stayed out of it completely and let the chips fall where they may.  I think we should have nuked Afghanistan and then apologized to the world while warning that any country knowingly harboring terrorists that are training to strike the US will suffer the same fate.

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10 hours ago, Grubster said:

There are millions of US citizens living below the poverty level, if we can't take care of them then why should we bring others to the mix?

 

10 hours ago, Grubster said:

There are millions of US citizens living below the poverty level, if we can't take care of them then why should we bring others to the mix?

Considering that Trump doesn't give a damn about either set of 'peasants' , your point is moot.

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BANGKOK 31 March 2017 05:32
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