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blaze

Member Since 2004-07-31
Offline Last Active Today, 09:54
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In Topic: Not A Thai Hero, Only A Victim Of Cowardly Killers

2010-07-28 13:47:43

View Postjayjay0, on 2010-07-28 11:53:26, said:

View Postblaze, on 2010-07-28 10:49:20, said:

View PostOzMick, on 2010-07-28 10:07:44, said:

In any rationalization of a mindless bombing; the first question should be "Who gains?"

Military - why would the upcoming leadership change be altered in any way by a minor bomb attack? Is there any advantage to the military by prolonging the SOE?
Government (Democrats) - They have just had an expected win in a by-election (a bomb BEFORE may have increased their vote). Tourism and national stability is likely to be negatively affected. SOE extension may give them more argument to stall elections to the due date, but they have reasonable cause to do that already. If it was an attempt to smear the opposition, why not a phone call claiming responsibility in their name?
PTP - Has made a statement that they will co-operate with the reconciliation plan AFTER the SOE is lifted. A delay in lifting it may be desirable to them if they are wishing to appear reasonable but don't want to co-operate.
Yellows - Have kept a low profile lately. Not likely to affect upcoming court cases. A smear attempt, without a fake responsibility claim?
TS - happy birthday  Mr President. Maybe an exclamation mark to the "keep up the struggle" statement.
Reds - Angry over election loss? Keeping the sponsor happy? A continuation of the "democracy" fight?

Take your pick. I find it sad though that a man has died, several badly injured, and Thailand damaged, for so little gain.
There certainly is an advantage to the military in the coming reshuffle to have the SoE in place- there are splits within the military- that's no secret- to ensure a smooth transition- it helps to be able to keep one's 'enemies' under wraps. Bear in mind also that this is a cash cow for some authorities.

I agree that the government would have little reason to actively engage in acts like this. I believe that Abhisit for one, genuinely wants this SoE put to bed.
The PTP could probably win the next election- but right now- at least in Bangkok, they are pretty much prohibited from engaging (as all parties are) in political rallies so I think that their stake in having the SoE is at best minimal.
The Yellows? I agree with you- they have enough problems right now.
TS? I think most reds are genuinely pretty convinced that this reds were NOT involved in this. So if that is Thaksin's goal- he failed miserably.
The Reds? They got the election result they anticipated. They also got the 'victim' status that they crave. So this would really be shooting themselves in the foot.

You say
TS? I think most reds are genuinely pretty convinced that this reds were  NOT involved in this. So if that is Thaksin's goal- he failed  miserably."

The problem with a statement like that is you use a group that does any thing they want and then announces the government did it or ignores it.

Not sure where you come from but here in Chiang Mai they have predicted that this was a option that they werfe going to pursue. It is really  bad now they are not working together and will blow themselves up as well as you or me. They really don't care. There parent's can now say and mean it they are really sorry for these actions but they no longer can control the tiger they have worked long and hard to build.

"
I don't understand your first sentence. But your second is correct- many reds did threaten to take this underground- But if they have done so- I would expect the damage would be MUCH more devestating- much more frequent- and as someone else suggested- they would  have taken credit for the blasts rather than professing innocence- The reds I know in my little area in Bangkok laugh at the notion that this was the work of red fanatics- they also predicted that everytime there is a possibility that the SoE will be lifted- a bomb will go off. They blame the government- which I think is equally misguided, without evidence-

In Topic: Not A Thai Hero, Only A Victim Of Cowardly Killers

2010-07-28 10:49:20

View PostOzMick, on 2010-07-28 10:07:44, said:

In any rationalization of a mindless bombing; the first question should be "Who gains?"

Military - why would the upcoming leadership change be altered in any way by a minor bomb attack? Is there any advantage to the military by prolonging the SOE?
Government (Democrats) - They have just had an expected win in a by-election (a bomb BEFORE may have increased their vote). Tourism and national stability is likely to be negatively affected. SOE extension may give them more argument to stall elections to the due date, but they have reasonable cause to do that already. If it was an attempt to smear the opposition, why not a phone call claiming responsibility in their name?
PTP - Has made a statement that they will co-operate with the reconciliation plan AFTER the SOE is lifted. A delay in lifting it may be desirable to them if they are wishing to appear reasonable but don't want to co-operate.
Yellows - Have kept a low profile lately. Not likely to affect upcoming court cases. A smear attempt, without a fake responsibility claim?
TS - happy birthday  Mr President. Maybe an exclamation mark to the "keep up the struggle" statement.
Reds - Angry over election loss? Keeping the sponsor happy? A continuation of the "democracy" fight?

Take your pick. I find it sad though that a man has died, several badly injured, and Thailand damaged, for so little gain.
There certainly is an advantage to the military in the coming reshuffle to have the SoE in place- there are splits within the military- that's no secret- to ensure a smooth transition- it helps to be able to keep one's 'enemies' under wraps. Bear in mind also that this is a cash cow for some authorities.

I agree that the government would have little reason to actively engage in acts like this. I believe that Abhisit for one, genuinely wants this SoE put to bed.
The PTP could probably win the next election- but right now- at least in Bangkok, they are pretty much prohibited from engaging (as all parties are) in political rallies so I think that their stake in having the SoE is at best minimal.
The Yellows? I agree with you- they have enough problems right now.
TS? I think most reds are genuinely pretty convinced that this reds were NOT involved in this. So if that is Thaksin's goal- he failed miserably.
The Reds? They got the election result they anticipated. They also got the 'victim' status that they crave. So this would really be shooting themselves in the foot.

In Topic: Not A Thai Hero, Only A Victim Of Cowardly Killers

2010-07-28 10:36:34

View Postrobblok, on 2010-07-28 09:43:47, said:

View Postblaze, on 2010-07-28 09:25:03, said:


IN most places in the world people only step up after an attack like this to broadcast their aims and goals- as you rightly say. UNLESS the goal has been already met as a result of the act.  If the goal was nothing more than to see the SoE extended, there would be no need for anyone to step up- it would serve no purpose for them.

You can argue the same thing for the reds. Thing is the reds already have a bad track record and this fits them more. But we can argue till we both die of old age if your view is red and mine is yellow we would never see eye to eye. Just imagine how it is for Thais who are even deeper connected to this struggle. You will see that this will not go away and will stay here for a long time.

However i think it will stop if the reds are in power because then they don't have to kill. I haven't seen bombings during the reds reign. (this is just my opinion)
I don't understand your first point- are you suggesting that the reds wanted the SoE to be extended?
Your opinion about bombings during the 'red reign' are not based on fact: there was a very controversial attempted assasination of THaksin by bomb- though that was 'satisfactorily' concluded on Thaivisa to be a frame up- a bid for sympathy engineered by-- Thaksin.

I have no idea who set off this bomb. But there are certainly more motivations extant than a temper tantrum on the part of some reds over losing a by-election. Which they pretty much expected to lose anyway. This of course served to further demonize the reds- Who benefits from that? The reds?
It also serves to see the SoE extended- and there are probably more cliques than we are aware of who, for reasons totally independent of red/gov't poltics, would welcome this.

In Topic: Not A Thai Hero, Only A Victim Of Cowardly Killers

2010-07-28 09:25:03

View Postjunglist, on 2010-07-28 09:02:32, said:

Most places in the world when a bomb goes off the people responsible step up. They want the world to know why they are angry and they want change that they are willing to fight for or die for. But not here. Just cowards working for the big dollar. Prayers to Mr. Tawatchai Thongmak friends and family. Changes is needed and swiftly.  
IN most places in the world people only step up after an attack like this to broadcast their aims and goals- as you rightly say. UNLESS the goal has been already met as a result of the act.  If the goal was nothing more than to see the SoE extended, there would be no need for anyone to step up- it would serve no purpose for them.

In Topic: Not A Thai Hero, Only A Victim Of Cowardly Killers

2010-07-28 08:37:41

And again the overt innuendos: that this was related purely and only to the Red vs Gov't conflict. That the upcoming army reshuffle has NOTHING to do with it- that those who for personal agendas wish to keep the SoE in place have nothing to do with it. ONLY that it is either the reds OR the gov't- and since it couldn't be the gov't- that leaves---
This is exploitation of a man's death to promote hatred in the country. Nothing less.

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