CosmicSurfer

Quote

Hey BMTA, how about a crackdown on reckless driving of public transport vehicles, stopping in the middle lanes to let off / pick up passengers, etc.

xthAi76s, on 2012-05-16 10:01:14, said:

My thoughts:

1. I believe the word 'elites' is misleading. In reality what does this word even mean - does anybody really know? In fact it's a fairly new word which has sprung from recent politican conflicts and some folks would believe (me included) that it's a word deliberatley manufactured to push the intent of one particular Thai man.

IMHO the Thai people who have ignored education are politicians rather than the so called 'elite'.  In this country heads of ministries in the main are not highly capable people (they are mostly political appointees, and in many cases have bought their promotions for a purpose), they don't offer policy ideas to the ministers they report to (in many instances they wouldn't dare to offer ideas), and in fact most of the ministers are also not very capable. Therefore education, and a lot more areas needing development, just get ignored. Budgets to maintain the status quo are big, thats' all that matters, if you get my drift.

2. In terms of Thai universities the gap between the best and the worst is enormous. I have some personal insight into this subject - I lecture at several so called Thai 'prestigious' universities and the quality is not all that bad. Example, If top universities from Europe, US, Aust., and Singapore, etc., will readily agree to exchange programs (and there are students from all of these countries / regions studying here in Thailand for a semester / a year, etc), then they can't be that bad. Plus all of these institutes readily accept Thai students into the same exchange programs. Two years back one of my best Thai students finished her BBA, in Thailand, with a GPA of 4, and she was readily accepted into the London School of Economics for her MBA. A Thammasat (business) team just recently won an invited international quite prestigious competition.

On the other hand I have a close family member (born in Thailand) who attended a Rajabut university because the major he wanted was not available at a 'prestigious' Thai university. For his Major the quality was quite good, and graduates in this specific field are highly sought after from this specific Rajabut institution, but for most of the other compulsory subjects the quality was totally disgraceful (Example: a 19 yr old Thai girl with no qualifications in anything, who couldn't speak any English, was the English teacher. She's a close relative of the dean. She arrived an hour late for every class and often didn't arrive at all, no professional preparation, questions from the students not allowed. Total waste of time for the students, they learned nothing at all.) The place in question has the same budgets as other similar institutions but their buildings are falling down, and some classes are conducted in rooms with one wall completely collapsed.

3.  I do agree that change will happen and it will be when the middle class get bigger, more educated and more vocal and stand up to be counted.  But it's not tomorrow.  There are many highly capable genuine and honest Thai people who could change all of this and fairly quickly but right now they don't get involved for lots of good reasons. The day will come.

But back to Thailand, I think we all know that the educational system here is rather appalling.  I've read several books by Thai and foreign authors that suggest education in this country (like many things: culture, the exploitation and distortion of Thai Buddhism, the complexities of the Thai writing 'system', etc) have been purposefully designed to keep the 'poor' class in their position at the expense of the elites.  I've seen this argument laid out quite well with all types of historical support.  

So, I'm not so sure what Thailand is 'on about'.  (Is that a British expression or an Aussie one?  I'm not good with those quaint expressions of English.)  My predictions are that:

1) the elites are NOT going to make effort to change this culture.  Why would they.  They enjoy one of the largest wealth gaps in the world.  And, why do you think the Thais have one of the highest Power Index values in the world?

2) the poor are systematically prevented from learning a.) why and b.) how to challenge the 'establishment'.  They are prevented through the 'educational' system in Thailand.  They are prevented through their indoctrination of nationalistic teachings.  In other words, "direct any angst you may have about your life at the 'other'.  The foreigner  They are prevented by their shaping by perverted Thai Buddhism that teaches them that they belong wherever they are and that they shouldn't want for improvement.

3) So, the change will most certainly HAVE TO come from the Thai middle class.  They have a choice to make.  Certainly, there are not many of them, but their numbers are growing, and that could be marvelous thing for Thailand.  Thus far, it seems rather apparent that the middle class (and by this I mean reasonably educated, probably at least some English speaking, more liberal and modern but perhaps not ultra wealthy Thais) lacks the courage and/or ability and/or desire to change things here -- and that is, of course, their choice if it is so.

So, all this talk about improving the education system here, to me, is rather pointless unless Thais are willing to actually look at the fundamentals that dictate largely why things are the way they are.  Their educational system and the other systems of indoctrination (religion, " others ", nationalism) are in many ways (including those most probably intended) are wholly a masterpiece.  What other nation can grip and stifle people's minds so well that they completely lack the desire or will to affect for themselves a better, more respectable, more comfortable existence?  Thailand is unique in this regard.

Lies and/or violence is the way to come to power. What ever it takes. Power equals money and money equals respect. I feel we are about to hear the rage of the forsaken and this will spark a civil war and/or rampant crime. Some say the rampant crime has already started. If I was a red I would feel a little more than cheated. I have moved to Laos as I have no wish to get caught up in this AGAIN. Saw the black balaclava militia in Romklao Road, Romklao, Bangkok armed to the teeth, hijacked airports. No thank-you, not again. There will be no reconciliation until this stops being about leaders - and starts being about the economic welfare of the common people. Ideally the leaders of the PAD and reds should be jailed and some-one decent should be found to run the government.

Economic hard facts beat populism every time.

Populist promises have almost always been the springboard for dictatorships. Part of the problem is the PTP policies are only window-dressing & nobody actually knows what their long-term agenda and policies are.
They are the living emodiment of the English "jam tomorrow" folk-saying ; "well kids, you know its just dry bread today but there'll be jam tomorrow". This is also the type of 'faith in the future' message has been used by many dictators through the centuries. Stick with us, even though your lives are going down the drain, we promise the future will be great. everything will be okay when Thaksin gets back, or maybe in the time of  his son's rule, or  his grandson, great-grandson.
PTP run the country on a skeleton-crew basis, ticking only the mandatory boxes and avoiding everything else. IMO their energies are devoted behind the scenes to installing a permanent familial oligarchy.
I would guess the next step will be to give all poor people a free colour TV, & by coincidence  people will be  watching red-government propaganda on the free TVs along with brain-meltingly bad soap operas and game shows. That wouldn't be so bad if the Govt actually made people's lives better (as promised).
The mistakes made pre-flood & post-flood which were shockingly inept, were brushed aside by the regime as unimportant, but the flood exposed the government-level complete lack of robust quick-thinking which are the trademarks of competent leadership. It also raised the question of what they consider important. Even the request to have a state of emergency during the worst floods for over 50 years, was rebuffed by Yingluck along partisan and control-freak lines.
All the meaningful pre-election promises by PTP  have failed to appear even in start-up phase, except for a few stragglers that emerged blinking into the light & feeling all alone.
People in the opposition are very concerned that the country they love is being hijacked, and in the worst case scenario the groundwork for a dynastic oligarchy is being laid-out. The feeling among many international observers is that the worst is yet to come & Thai peoples future is one of being industrially-fleeced & exploited & deceived.

This is largely a social problem. I work in Cambodia but am married to a Thai so I see the huge difference between the countries in this regard. Here in Cambodia, almost everyone wants to learn some English, the level here is amazingly good even in the remotest places. From what I have seen in Thailand there is little interest in learning English (or anything much for that matter) complete apathy. Another thing also highlighted by this article is the fear of trying to speak English, the fear of losing face I guess. I have heard this from teachers here before. One I know took over an English class from a Thai and was appalled how scared the kids were to even try to speak. This was because the Thai teacher had insisted on perfect grammar rather than encouraging them to experiment and try to link words and phrases together. This was so extreme that he actually had a child wet himself in class because he was afraid to ask to go to the toilet as the previous teacher became very angry if they made even the smallest mistake. English is a very flexible language and it is easy to say the same things in a number of different ways. I believe this fear is a large part of the problem and it is simply a matter of encouraging people to experiment, not to be afraid of making a mistake, good grammar can come later once they become more confident. But they need to want to learn and that is not something I see very often in Thailand.

swillowbee, on 2012-03-28 12:30:08, said:

True enough, I think most farangs realise that Thailand's culture lies at the heart of all its problems.

Well said.  Unfortunately, the Nation's English-reading community does not benefit from these brave words.

No Mahatma Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, or Aung San Suu Kyi is apparent in Thailand.  These remarkable people were, and are, products of their environments and of their people, then largely voiceless.

They fired the imaginations and hopes of nations, without whom millions would remain mired in feudal despair living in desperation ... lives without hope ... consider the average Thais' life and imagine their week-to-week existence.

The enlightened politics that precipitated from their leaderships were reflective of the people they represented, then a silent majority (with no vote) whose collective cultural values were superior to those of their political leaderships.  I contend that these collective cultural values are overwhelmingly a concequence of a population's spiritual values.

Spiritual values drive cultural values >> cultural values drive politics ... where the population has a vote, the politics accurately reflects the character of the people.

Representative democracy works.  It really does.  The values of the average Thai are represented in the political leadership they choose to lead them.

Thailand's crisis is one of cultural values.

Values are indoctrinated in people while they are young.  At what contact points are most of Thai children's values influenced?

• Teachers (the Thai Ministry of Education! ... nothing more need be said of this incidious, mind-numbing failure of an educational system);
  
• Theravada Buddhist monks (look closely here, as compared to that practiced in other Buddhist nations and their cultural values ... e.g. Korea);
  
• Popular culture (TV, music, video games, etc. ... nothing remotely similar to value-oriented programs as "Little House on the Prairie", or "Sesame Street" is offered by Thai media);
  
• Print media (Thais do not read, as a matter of habit, relying more upon pre-packaged opinions by the broadcast media and local chit-chat as their primary source of information on current events, and social and political commentary); and,
  
• Their mothers and fathers (and where did they get their values? ... return to #1 above).

Thailand professes itself as a spiritual nation, yet is amongst the world's most corrupt.

If you accept my spiritual>cultural>political nexus thesis above, you will probably accept that this has evolved over generations, and is reinforced by Thailand's many institutions (social, religious, legal, economic, educational, judicial, political) created and instituted by a select group of elites.  Bettering a nation's cultural values seems as a monumental task.

If changes are possible, improvements would take generations, assuming there is an organized effort to make change.  Yet, many high barriers to change in Thailand exist, the greatest of which is a cultural value that insists that Thais resist change, accept their lot in life, and have no influence over this life.

If a foreign nation somehow implanted many of these values into another nation, effectively passifying an entire population and rendering them a hapless threat, they would consider it nothing less that an act of war.  But, sadly ... generations of elitist Thai social, political and spiritual leadership have done this to their own people.

I wonder if an awakened Thai population would view this manipulation by generations of their own privileged leadership any differently than if they were manipulated by a foreign enemy of the state.  The possible consequences are frightening.

A world of Thai-sympathizing farang ask, "How can we help?" ... many wish we could, but we cannot ... this fight for Thailand's soul can only be won by Thais.

Unkomoncents, on 2012-03-27 08:16:20, said:

Never a truer word written , but writing it so Thai's actually understand the point you are trying to make would be considered highly offensive and so the "merry go round" will never stop.

dominique355, on 2012-03-19 17:09:44, said:

Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Populistic policies are implemented not because they promise any real progress, but because they are, well, populistic. They sound good in slogans and re-election campaigns. Nobody ever expects any improvement from them, at least not those with an IQ above room temperature.

Anything anyone wants to know about Thailand is all wrapped-up in the story of Suwanabhumi's development ... the Royal Thai government's indemic corruption, the unique Thai cultural values preventing them from rising above incompetence and succeeding at anything approaching an international standard.

It is a facinating story, but a sad one.

With all the resources of the world at their disposal for a project that attracted the best talent in the world, this is the best Thailand could do.

Sadly, it is a story repeated again and again, all visible for the world to see ...rampant flooding; adulterated sprinkler systems in high-rise tourist hotels that then burn; street cops extorting money from tourists for allegedly littering; the now world infamous Thai jet-ski scams, etc.  

Thailand is a place that interests foreigners, sure, but Thailand struggles to rise above 3rd world standards.  Maybe it is a nostalgic return to the undeveloped world that holds foreigner's interest in Thailand.

While Thailand's new airport failed to meet the standards of any new international airport opened in the last couple of decades (especially those built by its Asian big brothers, who have risen above 3rd world), it does not threaten the world as a Thai-built and operated nuclear power plant would ... now THAT is something about which to be very, very concerned.

They answered your E-mail ? Who the hell do you know ?

CosmicSurfer, on 2012-03-13 23:47:21, said:

I will try tonite when she gets back from the office, can't see where she has her passports stashed.
Some more info if it's useful, when you go to the passport office in Central Bang Na, on any day the queue is usually two to three hundred long, don't join it, you're not queue jumping, go in the door and you will see on your left a couple of glass fronted areas. They were very helpfull with my wife, she explained the name change situation to them and was given a numbered ticket, different to the masses outside, and some kind of form to fill out. I went for a coffee and 10 minute walk and when I went back she was coming out with all finished. New passport has two stamps on the first two pages detailing past passports numbers and name changes giving a complete paper trail. Total cost 200 baht and all done with smiles.Some other offices should take note of that statement. Will try to e you later with copy of stamps.
Her visa is a 15 year business visa, don't know if that has any bearing on it