Badbanker

Badbanker, on 2012-04-05 07:14:27, said:

I think this is excellent advice. Many years ago I has a somewhat similar experience. In my case I think it was a disgruntled ex-employee that had managed to arrange this "bust". We were all legal and the only offence they were able to find was not having one of the three work permits on hand. Yes by law the WP has to be with the employee. However in real life the chance that it is away with a lawyer or a messenger as part of some beauracratic process is quite high. It is a minor offence but the modus operandi of these guys is to be as inimidating as possible. For me it was a very unpleasant experience which caused me to reevaluate my being in Thailand. I can really sympathise with the op here.

Badbanker, if you don't mind I have a couple of questions for you.

1 - What rights of entry do these guys (immigration inspectors?) have? If as in my case it is just a quiet office not open to the public, can they just barge in without a warrant of some sort?

2 - Is it within your rights to ask to record details of whatever ID card is presented? I ask this because most people would have no idea what an official ID card looks like. It would be pretty easy to make a fake ID card then wave it in your face. In the panicked situation that they create you won't remember the details.

If a similar thing ever happened to me again, I would remain calm, call the local police (even dial 191) and not follow any of these thugs instructions until the police arrived, no matter what they did or said.

Thanks in advance.

wayned, on 2012-03-22 14:02:28, said:

A common misconception.

Contrary to popular belief, diplomatic missions do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and are not sovereign territory of the represented state.^[5][6] Rather, the premises of diplomatic missions remain under the jurisdiction of the host state while being afforded special privileges (such as immunity from most local laws) by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. Diplomats themselves still retain full diplomatic immunity, and (as an adherent to the Vienna Convention) the host country may not enter the premises of the mission without permission of the represented country. The term "extraterritoriality," therefore, is often used in this broader sense when applied to diplomatic missions.

Source

More:
Contrary to popular perception and a lot of careless news reporting, embassies are the sovereign territory of the country in which they are located, NOT of the country whose diplomatic mission is housed there. That is why an office building can host an embassy on some floors and, say, a bank on others.

The reason for the misperception is probably that the Vienna Convention states that the local government foreswears the right to enter an embassy, and diplomatic immunity protects the diplomats working inside. However, this does not mean that that space is somehow transmuted into UK (or other) soil or legal territory for purposes of law enforcement.

Badbanker, on 2012-03-20 19:16:52, said:

The authorities here could also have insisted that they would only accept a direct flight ticket as the condition for his release and deportation. This would have prevented the opportunity for him to do a runner in India. Of course this rule couldn't apply to the bigger picture as there are many countries without any direct flights from Bangkok - but if they'd done this for Mr. Wallace we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I would suggest that to minimise the potentially awkward situation of having to keep hold of passports during transit, a "direct flights only" rule should be applied wherever possible.

jamesthefirst, on 2012-03-19 13:22:52, said:

It would depend on why they are on overstay, like I previously stated my mate had nothing relied on others to help him, was a burden on those around him, who were mostly Thai.

Best thing to do is not to overstay and respect the laws of the country you are visiting.

Thinking about it I could overstay and collect unemployment benefit for a few months as have paid my taxes. But that is really not the thing for me.

I have some difficulty understanding this.  In a deportation from a foreign warrant the person is handed over to a police officer of the requesting country. International laws enable him to retain the person in custody in transit countries. By trying to do it on the cheap and use expulsion to bypass legal safeguards it backfired.  
With expulsion of any type there is no person with legal custody once Thai territory is left..
If the captain attempts to detain the person in a transit country he would surely be liable to claims of illegal imprisonment.

Hallo Bad Banker,

Many thanks for your answer. But I have – unfortunately – to say that I did not understand your comment.

In a previous post you wrote: Quote: “Sir if you overstay your visa you have broken Thai law and are considered a criminal, as you will go to court …” and “Breaking the law by overstaying makes you a criminal” Unquote.

In your recent answer you seem to distinguish between deportation as such and being a criminal (see above). Does it mean Thai Immigration or Thai courts have no authority to blacklist criminals?

Because consequence is for me that we are back to square one. It means you overstay, you are deported and if you have the necessary means, you are back within a shortest period of time. So no worries at all for those who, for what reasons so ever, overstay and have the financial means for a return flight.

Again, Bad Banker, thanks a lot for your time to answer all the questions!

I thought the purpose of deportation was removal from the country.  I can understand countries requiring it to be to a specific country if the country concerned pays the fees (As would be the case in a deportation from Australia.) I cannot unstand why when the fare is paid by the individual.  Either way the person is outside the problem of the country.

In any case I wish to applaud the efforts of BadBanker, his efforts are much needed. In many cases people helping clients who may or may not have bought things on themselves start looking too much from the authorities viewpoint rather than the individual.  I am glad BB is not like this.

Hallo Bad Banker,

the one question that come to my mind reading all this: If someone is caught for overstay, even incarcerated in the IDC for a certain period (let's say until he find means to pay for deportation) etc. all this does apparently not lead to any sort of BLACKLISTING. You report about a man that has done the "round", as I would like to call it, for 9 times now. That seems for me in a way inconsequent by the Thai authorities.

The fact is that you are deported from Thailand to your country of origin. But this, the country of your origin, has no matters whatsoever in the deportation and lets you return to Thailand maybe with the next available flight (provided that financial means are available).

My direct questions again: Did you ever come across a case that due just to deportation somebody was accordingly blacklisted, i.e. prevented from ever enter Thailand again?

I stand by my asertion that no one is going to jail, have their ticket tossed in the bin, wait weeks for ajudication/new ticket/funds transfer becasue they were 4 days overstay. Ain't no way - sorry.

Whether they catch you in the street, you are serious overstay, beligerent, etc.. that may be another matter.

In the end - Thailand wants you OUT and putting you in the monkey house for weeks solves absolutely nothing. Fines are now set at a maximum of B20K so figure how much is the fine? B1500? Wow, that could just be solved in line - like it is now and ever shall be.

Even Indonesia does not jail people a few days and even weeks overstay.

I reiterate - if Thailand goes this route and there are honest incidents reported in the press Thailand can kiss its tourism industry goodbye. At best it will be damaged by 10-20% eternally as people shorten their stays to ensure they are out by day XX.

I am not disputing the post and certainly not the poster, just trying to bring context. Thailand simply is not going to jail people on holidays for overstaying a week or even two and I defy anyone to prove that it has thus far happend or will with certainty happen in the future.

This action is directed at criminals, longstay overstayers, paupers and vagrants, potential politicals and the like.


Ain't gonna happen.


PS: People living on the street should be arrested and deported BUT if you have been in Thailand long enough, you'd know that a penniless farang now becomes the cops problem. They don't want this guy langishing in their jails to feed and clothe. As you state, they might even be ill and Thailand (even cops) do have a soft spot for mentally ill. But more over - best the problem left to rot then to scoop it up and have to deal with it. Then it is THEIR problem and in the end - they can release to Cambodia OR buy a ticket home. OOPS they can't release to Cambodia anymore becasue of this law. So they will in the end - not arrest unless criminal.

Am I correct in understanding that if you get caught in-country with an overstay of more than 5 days that you may end up in an IDC and deported to your country of which you hold a passport but if you make it to immigration at an airport, with overstay and have an onward ticket and are willing to pay the 20K fine, you're scott free?