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Devil

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#5301443 Liverpool F.C.

Posted StevieH on 2012-05-15 09:40:07

sharecropper, on 2012-05-14 10:26:53, said:

He is an idiot.

don't come in the liverpool thread calling kenny dalglish 'an idiot' you two-bob blueshite prick. bearing mind that he's so shit he's won more this season than moyes has in the last ten years.

any chance you could fuc_k off to the everton thread if you've nothing worthwhile to contribute to this one other than trolling?

#5297041 Tottenham Thread

Posted tigerfish on 2012-05-13 15:31:46

smokie36, on 2012-05-13 14:58:13, said:

Devil, on 2012-05-13 14:25:14, said:

carmine, on 2012-05-13 08:53:02, said:

alfieconn, on 2012-05-13 08:45:11, said:

Think i might take us losing today if it means getting rid of Bollock face Posted Image

I'm afraid i'm going to have to agree with you on this. It is imperative that he with the face of a ball bag is terminated for the greater good. Am i alone in being intensely irritated by how quickly he's started gobbing off to the press about transfers and our players, within hours of Roy's appointment?

i would also like to see Don Fabio replace him. Problem is, would a top notch manager join us if we were not in the CL? Very questionable.

And there you have it.... Absolute hypocrites the lot of you!

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

We won't be standing there shouting for his sacking at the end of the match win or lose. Its classless that sort of thing Dev.

true smokie !!!
you lot will just spend most of the post season summer and the pre 2012/2013 season moaning about everything just as you always do. Posted Image

i mean, what would the football forum be without a bunch of moaning spuds. i ask you ? Posted Image

have fun ! Posted Image

#5273712 All Hail Lionel Messi.........

Posted rixalex on 2012-05-04 17:52:09

For all his undeniable class, his form in big matches is a bit hit and miss. And for Argentina, he seems a different player.

To put him right up there, what i think he needs is a World Cup or two in which he is player of the tournament, and scoring more of the crucial types of goals in crucial types of games, for Barcelona. Scoring a hatful against the lesser teams is great. We know he can do that at will. Being a true great takes a bit more. Not saying that he has never delivered in that regard, but not frequently enough.

#5269971 Its Reported Roy Hodgson Approached To Be England Manager

Posted carmine on 2012-05-03 12:16:04

tigerfish, on 2012-05-02 20:05:59, said:

big hoo hah on talk sports Alan Brazils breakfast show today about The Suns front page head-liner taking the mick out of Hodgsons speach impediment. with the line " bwinge on the eulos "
totally insensitive, nothing what so ever to do with football and what the man has done in the game and brought to the table. regardless of what they ,i or anyone else thinks of whether or not he is the right man for the job, not even funny !
must be because they have had their noses put out of joint, with it not being old Harry getting the job and them not getting a sniff on breaking the story.
the self righteous little @#$%^& !

Yes they've had their nose put out of joint but did you really expect better from the gutter press.

The media over there is wonderful isn't it.....they sound off about having not won major trophies for years yet seem to do everything in their power to destroy morale and confidence of successive managers and teams. Then you have to listen to hacks like Brian Woolnough giving his oh so important take on what went wrong and how football journo's like him know best.

Sickening bunch the lot of them

#5269877 Its Reported Roy Hodgson Approached To Be England Manager

Posted rixalex on 2012-05-03 11:37:00

carmine, on 2012-05-03 09:11:27, said:

StevieH, on 2012-05-02 18:13:00, said:

LucidLucifer, on 2012-05-02 12:39:05, said:

I found that quite compelling StevieH.

Well written stuff and many points to moot.

glad you liked it mate, most of the stuff on zonalmarking.net is always worth a read.

ignore carmine, it just went way over his head i expect.

Huh? Please explain? I ticked the "like this" box. I actually found that piece rather interesting and well written.

Couldn't quite fathom it myself either. You surely post enough crap without Stevie having to make up new stuff. Posted Image

#5268261 Liverpool F.C.

Posted StevieH on 2012-05-02 17:54:44

MrRed, on 2012-05-02 13:26:47, said:

Sadly it actually started happening when Benitez took over,the import of so many foreign players without the first clue of how they used to be run as a club that kept everything in doors.

Suarez is a prime example of that.

garbage, mr ed. if you don't think that players like pepe reina, xabi alonso, luis garcia and in particular benitez himself 'got' the liverpool way and what the club means to the people of the city then you are, as so often, talking out of your hole.

but i'll leave this discussion there. talking about the liverpool way and what it is, or perhaps was, with a man united fan is like discussing astronomy with a flat-earther.

#5268109 Liverpool F.C.

Posted nellyp on 2012-05-02 15:22:49

carmine, on 2012-05-02 09:58:01, said:

Spiteful comment Abby

But very very funny

#5267766 Liverpool F.C.

Posted Abrak on 2012-05-02 13:24:11

Personally I think the "Liverpool Way' should be kept behind 'closed doors'. Posted Image

#5267506 Its Reported Roy Hodgson Approached To Be England Manager

Posted StevieH on 2012-05-02 11:55:59

RichBKK, on 2012-05-02 00:52:23, said:

I think Hodgsons selections will mostly be led by the nose of the media, none too inspiring or innovative but which should eliminate some of the dafter picks we saw under Taylor. Though can see him going for a few Crouch/Andy Carroll types

I dont think he would dare to go too alehouse in terms of players picked mind, he wasnt the pressers choice at all. The amount they went on about Redknapp should be a big enough clue

I just think though the players, especially those from CL clubs, will never be won over by him. Hes a throwback and they know it

i reckon this is probably about right. he is a devotee of the hughes/reep school of tactics, he's safety first and frankly that's exactly what england need right now. the always excellent zonalmarking.net gets it pretty spot on in the below:

http://www.zonalmark...nt-roy-hodgson/

If the decision was between Harry Redknapp and Roy Hodgson, England were choosing between two very different coaches.

The debate should not have been about ‘experience at big clubs’ or ‘how much the players like him’, but about the style of coach required: in Redknapp and Hodgson, the FA were choosing between two men at complete opposite ends of the football coach’s ideological spectrum, the most stark contrast of managerial philosophies you can find.

Redknapp
Redknapp is all about individuals. He denies he’s a ‘wheeler-dealer’, and to imply that he is only a transfer specialist would be unfair; he clearly gets on with people (summed up by his relationships with both players and journalists) and is regarded as a good man-manager and motivator. Whether it is bringing them in or firing them up, Redknapp’s skill is that he gets the best from individuals.
His tactical ineptitude can be overstated – Redknapp is generally very good at making substitutions midway through a game, as he showed, for example, with a fantastic turnaround at Arsenal eighteen months ago – followed by a perfectly reasonable and rational explanation about why he made the changes.

Yet Redknapp’s sides retain a certain anarchy, epitomised by Tottenham’s win away at Norwich late last year, when Redknapp told Gareth Bale and Rafael van der Vaart they could “play where they wanted to”. In that game it worked, as Bale scored two fine goals in a man-of-the-match performance. “He gets in those holes, and when he gets the ball and runs at you, he’s unplayable,” Redknapp marvelled. Yet in recent weeks, Bale’s desire to roam has been indulged at the expense of shape and structure, and Tottenham have been in terrible form.

Van der Vaart is another who has enjoyed that freedom at Tottenham. “There are no long and boring speeches about tactics, like I was used to at Real Madrid,” he says. “There is a board in our dressing room but Harry doesn’t write anything on it. It’s not that we do nothing – but it’s close to that.”

How much does Redknapp value the system? He’s perfectly honest about it. “Whether it’s 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 – the numbers game is no the beautiful game in my opinion,” Redknapp once said. “It is 10% about the formation and 90% about the players.”

Hodgson
Hodgson is the complete opposite, the ultimate ‘system’ manager. His teams are very simple – they defend the same way, with two banks of four supplemented with two outright attackers – either two forwards or a lone striker supported by a number ten. Whereas Redknapp employs an army of coaches to do his work on the training ground, Hodgson personally drills his players relentlessly in training so they’re completely at home with the zonal defensive system, going through the same exercises again and again.

“We work on it every day,” Simon Davies, who played under Hodgson at Fulham, told Jonathan Wilson. “Every day in training is geared towards team shape on the match-day coming up. I’ve been working with the manager three years now and every day is team shape, and it shows… I don’t want to give any secrets away, but he gets the 11 that he wants on a match-day and he drills everything in that he wants. It’s certain drills defensive, certain drills attacking, and we work very hard at it. There are no diagrams. It’s all on the pitch with the ball, nothing unopposed.”

Whereas Redknapp doesn’t care for formations, Hodgson is a member of UEFA’s technical study group and will tell you about 4-4-2 all day long:

“The back four gives you the best possibilities of covering the width of the pitch defensively, and it also gives you great options, in my opinion, to get the the full-backs forward…one can go forward and the other three can shuttle across and you’re still playing with three defenders. When you play with three defenders, you lose that possibility.
The other six players? One could discuss. There’s no doubt you need one forward…you need a point of reference…if you play with two of them, you have the added advantage that whoever receives the ball has someone in close support at all times, and if balls are going to be played forward, you’ve got someone to threat the back of the defence. If you take him (the second striker) out, the threat to the back of the defence has to come from the midfield, you need midfield players bursting forward. It’s interesting to play with two – though these days many teams are playing with them vertically, rather than alongside each other.
The central midfielders do an important job for you, they’re going to protect the back four, and they’re also going to be the catalysts for attacks. The wide players are the ones you’re looking for to use spaces.
With 4-4-2, you’ve got ‘twos’ all over the field. I would always be looking to find a team that can play with a back four. Amongst the front six there a lot more options.”

Decision
So which type of coach is needed? England are in a state of complete confusion. Going into a major tournament having appointed your coach a month beforehand is embarrassing enough. Then there is the problem that Wayne Rooney, the star attacking player, is suspended from the first two games. Jack Wilshere, assumed to be one of England’s key midfielders a year ago, will miss out through injury. A generation of very good individuals (though never remotely a cohesive unit) are now past their peak, while the next crop are not established enough to base a successful team around.
This complete failure to have any long-term project in place deserves first round elimination – an outcome that would have been regarded as ‘best for England in the long-run’, had they not consistently failed to learn lessons from previous failures.

Templates
All this should make even the most ardent England supporter realise that the team is currently a rank outsider. And the only way outsiders have overachieved in recent major international tournaments is by being defensive and functional. Uruguay won the 2011 Copa Americain this fashion, and Zambia triumphed at this year’s Africa Cup of Nations with the lowest pass completion rate in the tournament, something also achieved by Greece in Euro 2004. Uruguay (again) and Ghana were the surprise performers at the 2010 World Cup, both being inherently reactive, defensive sides. It’s difficult to name a recent underdog that has overachieved by playing attractive football.

Only the best sides can contest international tournaments in an open, attractive style and succeed. For the Euros, this is probably limited to Spain, Germany and Holland. (Even they are more cautious than one might expect – this is a Spain side that won the World Cup scoring eight goals in seven games, while Germany who were thrilling in South Africa, but mainly on the counter-attack, and a Holland are considered one of the least ‘Dutch’ sides in history.) Those three can at least hope to play beautiful football. Everyone else must focus upon being well-drilled and rigid.
If a disciplined, organised style of play is perfect for leading an underdog into a major international tournament, there is only one choice. Hodgson’s successes have generally been with underdogs; the only problem anyone can have with his style of management suiting England’s situation this summer is if (a) they refuse to accept England are underdogs, or (

they are frustrated at the confirmation of England’s status as underdogs.

(All this ignores long-term goals: granted, this is a major reason why England are currently in their current situation, but it’s difficult to see what long-term planning England can do between now and the Euros – regrouping after the summer is more logical. Talk of abandoning any attempt to compete at Euro 2012, in favour of a long-term approach looking forward to World Cup 2014, is a nice idea but assumes qualification and a reasonable idea of who would be in the side in two years’ time. Future international XIs are notoriously difficult to predict – predicting this year’s XI is difficult enough. In 2006 England took Theo Walcott to the World Cup, and though he didn’t play, he picked up ‘good tournament experience’, supposedly. This was totally useless when England didn’t qualify for Euro 2008 or when Walcott wasn’t deemed worthy of a place at World Cup 2010, and it was a wasted place in the 2006 tournament. To ‘do a Walcott’ with an entire squad would be suicidal.)

Caveats
There are two questions about Hodgson’s suitability. The first involves whether he’ll have enough time at international level implement his strict positioning correctly. This is a genuine issue – coaches who have had two years to prepare find it difficult, Hodgson only has a month. It will mean Hodgson’s style of football is probably even more boring than usual, as he would focus on defensive drills before planning any attacking moves. In that Davies interview quoted earlier, the Welshman finishes by saying, “We’re two-and-a-half years down the line now, so we’re all converted.” Hodgson does need time – when he arrived at Fulham, the team started poorly before a sharp recovery.

The second question is whether England’s players would respect Hodgson and be willing to follow his instructions. This is a problem for any England coach, though: Fabio Capello was ‘too distant’, Steve McClaren was ‘too chummy’. Hodgson isn’t stupid, and will be able to work out which type of players will be on board – he must be brave enough not to select anyone he believes will be a significant problem.

Conclusion
The point here is not that England have no chance of winning the tournament – it’s that they had no chance of winning the tournament by playing the anarchic football favoured by Redknapp. The type of football Hodgson offers is, in theory, the type of football that will maximise England’s chances of getting out of the group. In the current state of confusion, that must be regarded as a sensible target - although if Hodgson states this or voices satisfaction when this target is reached, he will be slaughtered for lowering expectations.

England must attempt to win the tournament; the chances are extremely slim, but have marginally increased with this appointment. England don’t have good enough players to be open and indulge individuals, and therefore Hodgson’s system-first approach makes sense.

#5267204 Liverpool F.C.

Posted Abrak on 2012-05-02 09:50:48

sharecropper, on 2012-05-02 09:14:07, said:

nellyp, on 2012-05-01 16:27:54, said:

rixalex, on 2012-05-01 13:46:19, said:

nellyp, on 2012-04-30 16:20:03, said:

All supporters feel their club is special if they don't how are they supporters. Don't Spurs have a traditional way to play, don't Newcastle fans feel they are the best?

That's the thing, if all clubs are "special", surely that means that in fact none are, and it is simply a figment of a supporter's imagination to think the way they feel is somehow unique to their club.

I think a figment of the imagination is going a bit far; but basically you are right. The club is only special to it's own fans, Why it is special is determined by them, and let's face it it is engrained into them by fans from a previous generation, and so a mythical aura rises around the club. We have the glory days and the good old days passed down to new fans or the bad old days or the wilderness years for the clubs that are successful now. But surely what we love about our clubs and the football world is the fact that our clubs are special to us, does it matter if it is a universally accepted fact? or if it is something that you fantasised the night before. I love my club for my own reasons and if that includes it's past players, results, successful campaigns or whatever then that is my choice. You can take the piss out of me because of it, but please don't expect me to explain it rationally or not take the piss out of you if I want to. As for the feeling being unique....there is noway on this planet that any father loves his kids more than I do, or in a more unique way. The uniqueness comes from the fact that they are unique to all other kids. This is surely how all supporters feel about their clubs, and I do not understand it if they don't.

I think we are finally near the truth in this philosophical discourse.

There is No Special Liverpool Way. They are just like any other football team. Their fans are their same - their history is just that - History, totally irrelevant to the mess they now find themselves in (except to cruelly magnify it), and they are as moody, fickle, irrational and faith-based as every other footy fan, usually with no or little reason.

I think we can now proceed disregarding the presumed aura of Specialness in our future dealings with Liverpool and its fans.

I tell you, I am very relieved about this. I had panicked a bit, wondering why my team, Everton, weren't Special. Where was Our Way I could boast about?

I even thought if I should pack my lot in and cross the park, as they all seemed to have some secret belief and derived confidence, arrogance even, from their Liverpool Way which no other team or supporters had.

Now I realise it's just the same footballing psychology as everyone else, except they are unusued to being down and mid-table dirty, which has made many supporters arrogant and desperate for something Greater to believe in; The Liverpool Way swooping down Superman-like to save them, and deposit them back at the top of the table.

Now I think I'll stay where I am.

As far as I can tell Sharecropper, you dont support Everton at all.

You simply obsess about Liverpool. Or maybe that is the 'Everton Way'.

#5260647 Tottenham Thread

Posted rijit on 2012-04-29 21:39:26

alfieconn, on 2012-04-29 10:15:12, said:

Quote

no ful bac cover? no wingers , and no goal keeper. Your right, though take the best players out of any team and you are going to suffer but top squads like man utd arsenal dont suffer from HUGE lapses of form from a few injuries like we have, they have sufficient cover to compete, we a t m dont.

Your memory is very short Rij ( but we will make allowances as your getting old ) but if you can remember back to the beginning of the season the Arse were struggling in the bottom half due to there injuries and not so long ago City were struggling due to having a few centre forwards injured.
Spurs problem has been that we have let 2 full backs and 1 right sided midfield player out on loan.

FFS,Alfie rose tinted glasses or what, weve let 10 ish reasonable prem quality players go and barring parker addyboy and goalie,who our team is now 100% BUILT AROUND, weve bought in cheap mid range tosh ,x'd our fingers and hoped for the best. well if u think its worked, good 4 you, but the results seem to prove you somewhat wrong though alfie, Not that I mentioned man city, but they havnt been out of the top 3 all season and as for arsenal,it was plainly obvious that once all fit they were going to be bac in the champions lge mix, but us? our problem is that if we get a few injuries now our squad aint any way near top 4 competitive.

#5266691 Its Reported Roy Hodgson Approached To Be England Manager

Posted RichBKK on 2012-05-02 00:40:08

Devil, on 2012-05-02 00:22:40, said:

Just watched the presser - they already introduced him as 'Woy' Posted Image

Its done now...just hope the players can perform and we have a good Euro tournament with a bit of luck.

Its all about 2014 World Cup anyway.

Reminded me of Mike Bassett England Manager. The top managers dont have to read out their CV in minutiae, it was a real parody, would have laughed if it wasnt so depressing

I hope he defies expectations and does a good job. I dont think hes a bad bloke but I think hes a bit deluded and way out of his depth though

its also the tactics. Charles Hughes will be proud that his legacy lingers on well in to the next century

also Bernstein really is a massive, massive helmet...........

oh well, not a lot we can do about it now. Some fellas are just beyond help as regards the FA. Just have to hope in some ways that the luck he has in getting well paid jobs above his natural ability level also is seen on the pitch as well, otherwise its Graham Taylor all over again

#5265277 Manchester City

Posted HeavyDrinker on 2012-05-01 14:19:39

Fair comment Mr Red, however I can remember being a kid at Rochdale's old Summer School with my cousin and buzzing when Tony Book and Franny Lee came and spent the morning with us (even though they all pissed off to the pub at 12 with all the dads).

City have always been active in Manchester, it's just that now they're getting the publicity to go with it.

#5266641 Its Reported Roy Hodgson Approached To Be England Manager

Posted mrbojangles on 2012-05-02 00:05:24

With Roy at the helm, we will conquer Europe.

Well, after the last few weeks can you blame me for thinking anything can happen in football Posted Image

#5262765 Liverpool F.C.

Posted nellyp on 2012-04-30 16:20:03

carmine, on 2012-04-30 08:12:00, said:

Devil, on 2012-04-29 14:30:37, said:

At Carmine since you called me out yet again!

Carmine I can honestly say I don't know you but what I can say is I don't think I would like you either, yes this is just a forum but you come across as one of the most spiteful posters on this thread. And you seem to think your opinions or your beliefs are far superior to anyone else's and if anyone should show any passion or support for their team they are to be ridiculed. You make it personal with you constant belittling of my opinions  and beliefs instead of just a dig at the team or results (banter) it isn't!

Why would I expect you to understand what I say? But here goes....its called 'The Liverpool Way'

From the moment I was told about Liverpool FC by my family at the age of about 7 or 8 that was that....on the bad days it's a horrible thing but the love never goes away! You learn about a set of common values that I guess define us as Liverpool supporters (I am not saying we are better but just different) and a set of values that give our club and fans the identity and some sense of a relationship with the Club that makes it so special to be a Red with a real unwavering support of the team.

'The Liverpool way' in short it was moulded by Bill Shankly he made Liverpool FC into one of the greatest clubs in world football! It was a vision beyond just football...he wanted to use the Cityâ€™s characteristics to define the culture of the club. He wanted to give Liverpool a unique identity and to lift the club and its supporters to the best in world football.

When Kenny returned I felt part of that had come back Ten Fold in complete contrast to another recent manager Mr Hodgson! I was gutted when Rafa left, he was a complete outsider like Hodgson but he was a winner and he became part of 'The Liverpool Way' he got us in so many ways and earned the respect of the supporters, even now he speaks of the love of the city and how his family still lives there, his genuine kindness and support to the Hillsborough group and his love of LFC. Even Houllier got us and the club on many levels and had that special love of the city after living and working there as a teacher many years before joining the club.

When you read Kenny's book 'My Liverpool' you read about the impression Shanks had on him, including Bob Paisley, Evans and everything about 'The Liverpool Way' and you get to see the connection with the fans that those managers had and especially what makes Kenny so special to us...

Times move on and players and managers come and go. All I ask is that a manager loves the club as much as WE DO or makes that effort to 'Get us' it is very obvious who does or doesn't. I would love to see the likes of a Carra come though and be part of the management and keep that sense of the Boot Room going and 'The Liverpool Way ' alive in the club. I  would also love to see a young talented manager come in who whoever that may be but become part of what I have said just as many past managers have done.

I could go on all day but this will all fall on many deaf ears especially one persons !  as much as a Christian will have when listening to a Muslims beliefs and so on...I am sure some fellow reds who are old enough will certainly get what I am saying?

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Thanks mate that was deeply moving. And there was me thinking that by coming on our thread and belittling our team you wanted to play. Suffice to say young man, if you want to dish it out you had better learn to take it.

The general feeling on the Spurs thread were that your post was also very spiteful but were not ones to get all juvenile and personal.

btw, i have to admit i couldn't be bothered to read the whole lot because i presumed its was that old chesnut of we are somehow different and special and no one understands what it is to be a Liverpool fan.

You're right we dont.

I don't think you should refer to anybody as young man as this is patronising and to be truthful has ageist overtones running through the post (sorry I could not resist that). It is ridiculous that you will comment on a post that you could not be bothered to read to the end. How do you know that full content of the thread. As for not understanding, that is fine we don't care. All supporters feel their club is special if they don't how are they supporters. Don't Spurs have a traditional way to play, don't Newcastle fans feel they are the best? If you want to try to belittle us stick to the football and not the Credo of our fans. Got to go or I may have started rambling again. Hodgson for England......you couldn't make it up. Good luck to him though.

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