otherstuff1957

GentlemanJim, on 2012-04-27 00:44:46, said:

Phiphidon aspires to reach the heights of nonsense achieved by Calgaryll.
The only means is to deny reality. He comes from the same group of thinkers who deny the six million Jews Hitler had tortured and killed.
It is a sad reality that many Thais agree with him. As long as they are unwilling to admit their part in any thing Thailand will remain split. I can understand the Thai's unwillingness to admit they were wrong it would mean loosing face. But for a farong to support them is beyond my imagination.

I supported the red shirts until they started pouring blood and even though I was slow I realized at that point that those people were ill equipt to manage a 7 11 munch less a country, which is what there goal was.
As the days passed and I continued to watch their selfish lack of concern for the population who had to live and work where they had taken up there tireless rants and converted into a war zone even building barricades out side hospitals I grew deeper in my beliefs that here was no good. They have done nothing but deepen my belief in there worthlessness.

Not all Nigerians are scam artists. In fact some are very generous. I recently had one Nigerian who tracked me down and contacted me because he saw I had unclaimed lottery winnings in another country. Thank God he did because I don't even recall entering the lottery in this country and never even visited the country but he said I must have done it online. Anyway, he is helping me to get my winnings (BIG MONEY!) and taking care of all the fees and taxes for me there and trust me this is no easy thing and I've already had to send him money three times because they government keeps saying there are more taxes and fees because I am a foreigner. But when all is said and done I should be a very rich man thanks to this Nigerian.

Another way to look at the Thaksin saga is to look at what is now happening in Chiang Mai. There are a couple of billionnaire families that control this city. They are all friendly with the Shianwatras. The moment the PTP 'won' this election, money from the government coffers started pouring into Chiang Mai. All the big players were in place: Land had been acquired for the development of shopping malls and moo baans; projects that had previously been on 'hold' burst back into life, a new ring road from Hang Dong to Mae Rim was announced: not surprisingly the Thaksinites has already acquired land along the route, thus doubling, tripling (and so on) the value of this land in no time. Its about money. And Thaksin's red shirt movement, for Thaksin at least, is about acquiring the support, through force and menace, to enable him to continue piling cash into his already overful bank accounts. Democracy was simply a useful word that would pull these red shirts into one movement behind him. Thaksin is not a democrat. His actions over the years have proved that time and time again. The majority of reds have no idea what democracy is. But there is a small movement that believe and understand democracy and I guess that these guys know what a scam the rest of the movement is. Another way to develop a movement is by finding a common enemy (in other countries it could be blacks, jews and so on( and in this case it was the 'elite'). This elite is actually the same people who have their snouts in the trough as being demonstrated in Chiang Mai even as you read this. As I see it the Democrat Party is composed, partly, of humanitarians, people who have education and understand the world a little bit more than the average red; it is comprised of academics, intellectuals and people in general who have jai dee. Abhisit had a rough time with some of his own people who had their fingers in the pie but he was well meaning, he held back when the reds were bent on tearing the capital city apart. He knew that the venom would be turned on him with the carefully orchestrated lies and deceit of that master of illusion who now lives in Dubai. But he stood his ground and held his head up high in spite of the pressue that he was under and the lies spread about him by Thaksin, Amsterdam and repeated by Jatuporn, Arissman and the other Kwais in there for the ride. Some posters here (not too many of them thank goodness) seem to ignore these simple truths and prefer to be dragged along by the fake democrat. But in all of these situations over history there have always been a small minority who prefer the notoriety of siding with the bad guys often at the expense of the poor and downtrodden. Lord Haw Haw in the UK is a great example. Sadly, Thai politics cannot change - at least not in my lifetime. Good governance could do so much for this country and the poor sods who still have to manage on 150 baht a day, if they can get work at all. If this was another country we could widen the debate a bit more but I believe that there were very powerful forces that intervened at some point to help save the country but sadly this was not to be and the battle will continue. 'Reconciliation', like 'democracy' is another buzz word designed to create a diversion from what is really happening. Some Thaksinites (here on TV) may be easily fooled by these illusions but thankfully I sense that on TV, at least, there is a body of good people, people who care about others, who truly understand this stuff. They are the kind of people who can make a difference in this world.

Khun Sombat seems like a level headed and reasonable person. Someone that you could actually have a meaningful conversation with and come away from it with some hope of moving forward together. That is why he is a nobody.

Sadly, he doesn't speak for the vast majority of reds, and in particular the violent, thuggish faction, who are still strongly devout followers of the demagogue in Dubai, and who still happily hold the rest of the country in contempt,  and would fire bomb everyone else if it meant they got paid 500 baht from their square headed deity.

Wake me up when the bulk of the red shirts have developed intelligence and no longer follow their current plan to destroy the country and put their chosen tyrant in power.

Thai at Heart, on 2012-05-25 12:01:30, said:

Maybe you're unfamiliar with Thaksin's family background.  He doesn't play it up because he likes to pretend to be some kind of self made man.  He was born in to wealth and power, both socially and financially.  Thaksin is descended from the Na Chiang Mai family on his mother's side, the former rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai.  Thaksin is part of the elite upper class, you can not get much more elite than him.  That is why Thaksin's father was able to secure a seat in parliament in Chiang Mai, and why Thaksin was so easily able to enter politics later on.

International tourist from 1998 to 2011


International Tourists Annual Statistics

2011 ... 19,098,323
2010 ... 15,936,400
2009 ... 14,149,841
2008 ... 14,584,220
2007 ... 14,464,228
2006 ... 13,821,802

Although many tourists come by land or other airports (Malaysians being the top visiting Tourist), it is interesting to consider the number of International Arrivals at just Suvarnabhumi Airport.

Number of Passengers by Year Suvarnabhumi

2011 .... 47,910,744
2010 .... 42,784,967
2009 .... 40,500,224
2008 .... 38,603,490
2007 .... 41,210,081
2006 .... 42,799,532

** Interesting note ... From Jan 1st of this year through May 17th, it is the 5th busiest Airport in the world by number of passengers.

citizen33, on 2012-05-24 02:07:37, said:

The first settlement seems to have taken place late September / early October 2011 with k. Thaksin  getting back some money and grenade attacks on ordinary citizens stopped. As for 'high-level Thai circle gossip' I'm not into those circles, not as you might be that is

Whereas k. Abhisit has stated many times to be here and ready to be judged, k. Thaksin is pure and innocent and all for amnesty. Even Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm is for reconciliation, amnesty, except for k. Abhisit and k. Suthep of course.

The more honest Thaksin haters have seen confirmation in k. Thaksin's phone-in last Saturday. Of course those in the know are not swayed, neither those in the 'higher-level Thai gossip circles'. The verdict may be somewhat cynical "thank you, please go home now, I no longer need you" and don't let the door hit your a__ on the way out

Quote

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that in the secret meeting discussing real estate issues, that Settha...


President of real estate company Sansiri Public Company Limited, Settha Thavisin

is the brother of...


Embattled U.S.A. blacklisted member of Yingluck's Cabinet as Prime Minister's Office Minister, Nalinee Thavisin



.

Had Thaksin stayed in Thailand and faced his charges, served what ever little time they would have given him, like the red shirts are doing now because of him, none of this would have happened. No red shirts dead from all the violence, no red shirts in jail. And Thaksin could be fighting shoulder to shoulder with his red shirts, instead of playing politics from behind the curtain like a puppet master.

When populist movements such as the red or yellow shirt groups start to fragment, I take this as a sign that people are starting to think rather than just reacting emotionally. Thaksin and many others in both factions are loose cannons, loose cannons usually end up overboard, one just has to hope they don't render the vessel unseaworthy in the process.

The dynamics for groups such as the Yellow Shirts and the Red Shirts are interesting.   They both appeared to be tools for a purpose, but once the purpose was accomplished, they continued to exist without any real meaning.   For the Yellow Shirts this seemed to lead them into a nationalistic furor over Preah Vihear temple and border issues.  With the Red Shirts, I am not sure how the dynamics will play out.

2 journalists describe that they saw armed protestors, so let's hear no more about the peaceful protest.
"They had AR-15s, TAR-21s, M16s, AK-47s" "They attacked soldiers with AK-47 and HK-33 assault rifles, and M79 grenade launchers."

http://www.hrw.org/n...98399/section/5

A journalist, who spent several days together with a group of armed militants at the Ratchaprasong protest camp, described to Human Rights Watch his experience with the Black Shirts:

The day I met up with the group, they were near Lumphini Park and the Rama IV [road] junction, living in a tent. I was not allowed to photograph them. I met about 17 or 18 of them, but they said they were part of a group of 30. They had more people helping them, helpers and their own medics. They were all ex-military, and some of them were still on active duty. Some of them were paratroopers, and at least one was from the Navy. They had AR-15s, TAR-21s, M16s, AK-47s [military assault rifles], but I didn’t see them with M79s [grenade launchers]. They told me that their job was to protect the Red Shirt protesters, but their real job was to terrorize the soldiers.
[T]hese guys were fearless. They operated mostly at night, but sometimes also during the day. They went out in small teams [to confront the army].…
They didn’t use walkie-talkies, just mobile phones and runners [to deliver messages]. I saw no interaction with the Red Shirt leaders. But these guys were contacted by someone, someone recruited them to come, I have no idea who. Someone provided them with weapons…. They rationed their bullets—when they went out they had 30 bullets [each].
They weren’t really “black” shirts—they were sometimes in green military uniforms and others dressed like Red Shirt protesters. They didn’t have any relationship with the Red Guards, and weren’t interested in dealing with the Red Shirt leaders.… They took their work very seriously. The guys I met, they knew how to move and shoot. They also had experience handling explosives.… The Black Shirts didn’t come to try and take territory—they shoot and then they leave, they hit [the soldiers] and retreat.

A Thai journalist stationed near Bon Kai junction said the Black Shirt militants he encountered during the May 17-19 clashes were well-armed, appeared to be trained in military tactics, and seemed to have a separate command line from the Red Shirt Guards:

From what I saw, the Black Shirt militants and the Red Shirt protesters were fighting alongside each other in the areas around Bon Kai junction. But they did not share the same command line. The Red Shirts seemed to be driven by anger as they saw soldiers moving in and opening fire at the protesters. They burned tires and used slingshots to shoot metal bolts, rocks, and fire crackers at soldiers. They also tried to use petrol bombs and homemade rockets, made of PVC [durable plastic] and metal pipes, to attack soldiers. But the aim of their rockets was not accurate enough to hit soldier bunkers and cause any serious damage. Some of the Red Shirts went out on foot and motorcycles to challenge soldiers to come out from their bunkers and fight openly. But they had to dash back behind the barricades when soldiers shot them with rubber bullets and live rounds. This cat-and-mouse game went on all day. I only saw two of the Red Shirts firing at soldiers with revolver pistols.
The Black Shirts, on the other hand, were well armed. They attacked soldiers with AK-47 and HK-33 assault rifles, and M79 grenade launchers. They were also very cautious when they moved around, using smoke as their cover. They appeared to benefit from the havoc created by the Red Shirts, which distracted soldiers as well. The Black Shirts did not stay in one spot for too long. They moved around, took their positions, opened fire, and then retreated. The way they operated reminded me of those with military training. Some of the Black Shirts used walkie-talkies, while others use mobile phones, to communicate with each other. Their operations seemed to be coordinated by a man who always had sunglasses on. At one point, I heard him giving orders to the Black Shirts to fire M79 grenades at the bunkers and sniper posts of soldiers. But when I asked the Black Shirts about that man, they told me I should not raise that question again if I want to stay behind their line. The Red Shirts that I talked to said they did not know who that man was either. Nevertheless, they believed that the Black Shirts were there to protect them and help them fight more effectively.

473geo, on 2012-05-20 22:04:43, said:

The problem with Nick's reporting isn't to do with how well informed he is, it is to do with the slant he applies. I daresay if i were in such close contact with red shirts as they were waging war in the streets of Bangkok, i too might be affected by sympathies, emotions and personal relationships. It's human nature. A bit like the way Stockholm Syndrome works.

Phiphidon, just a simple question - were you actually in Bangkok during the time if the riots?

I only ask because you talk like somebody who has sourced all of his facts from the western media. I remember watching the BBC world report about it and they presented it in a way that the Red Shirts were revolutionaries standing up to an oppressive government. They revelled in those signs saying "we are not terrorists, we are peaceful protestors". And yet, that very day Bangkok was being engulfed in the fumes of hundreds of tyres burning at heavily armed check points and there were grenades regularly being shot at civilians who had nothing to do with any of this. The western media reported a very twisted version of what I experienced at the time, and to what I saw the video footage of in the Thai news everyday.

There seems to be a very different viewpoint from people who were actually here and saw some of the riots first hand and had their life affected for one month, compared to the red shirt sympathisers on this forum who spout quotes from the UK Guardian of all sources.

Until Thailand, like many other developing nations, can drop the stigma attached to being a "farmer", there will be less interest in careers in the agricultural sector. Farming is one of the most important businesses. No farmers, no food. Politicians and lawyers we might be able to do without, not so farmers.
Thai farmers in mosty cases are subsistence and small scale, but at least they can earn money. In the west, the farms are in the hands of multinationals. Most students want to study the 'clean' careers like business, law, medicine etc. In those sectors the rewards can be high.
Not so in agriculture.
However, there should still be plenty of opportunities if the government, particularly the PTP, pays more attention to this sector, as this is, after all, where their voter base is located to a large degree.