genset

They are indeed Kraus and Naimer... excellent quality

Genset

electau, on 2012-05-02 06:23:41, said:

For anybody considering this type of installation, I've posted some photographs of the simplest and safest type of open transition (break before make) rotary transfer switch for these applications. They can be found in this thread.

Genset

bankruatsteve, on 2012-04-18 20:51:18, said:

Thanks to Ken for the update.

Regarding Prefabs additional comments, I'd just like to clarify that the 'Vendor' (the company which supplies my company) is Cummins Power Generation, but Ken purchased his generator and ATS system from Generator Solutions, not directly from Cummins. It is possible to buy directly from Cummins, but the deal I have with them enables me to make it more attractive to buy from my company than directly from the distributor.

I should also add that although your friend was unfortunate enough to pay for a product he did not receive, there is no suggestion of course that buying a Chinese generator from a local supplier will result in a similar experience; in my humble opinion, there are good reasons for purchasing a Cummins solution over the Chinese variant here in Thailand, manufacturing quality, warranty coverage period and reliable after sales service being the main three. Invariably, you get what you pay for as we all know. Ken made an informed decision to invest in a 'complete solution', rather than just purchasing a generator and generic ATS panel, this decision will provide him with the kind of long term peace of mind which until now, has been quite difficult to come by when making these type of purchases in Thailand.

For anybody who may be interested, I am adding data sheets for the generator and ATS panel used for Kens installation.

 C8D5-C11D5 New with enclosure.pdf   382.28K   6 downloads    GTEC_40-2000Amp.pdf   270.1K   4 downloads

Thanks again for your comments.

Genset

Thanks as always Crossy... by the way, I have just received some 4 pole, 63 amp rotary manual transfer switches from Europe, pasting a couple of photos below, including a couple of an installed switch I sent down to an electrician down in Hua Hin. It was a relatively pricey option, but I should be able to bring the switch alone in under your hundred quid hurdle if I order them a dozen or so at a time.

 DSC00864.JPG   205.07K   4 downloads  DSC00865.JPG   202.24K   4 downloads    DSC00866.JPG   225.45K   5 downloads    DSC02278.JPG   290.16K   4 downloads    DSC02283.JPG   307.02K   3 downloads

Gregory - sending you an email now, hope to speak to you soon.

Genset

Hi Guys,

I'd like to offer my thoughts and comments regarding Ken's generator/ATS installation, but first a little preamble to set the scene if I may.

I began looking at the generator market in Thailand 3 years ago. It was immediately clear that although good quality, name brand generator imports are available, the distributors of these machines have locked down the top end of the commercial market and show little interest in providing any incentives for domestic customers. Relatively cheap Chinese imports account for the majority of generators purchased for domestic use in the 2 to 10Kw range. It was also clear that there were few suppliers who could communicate clearly in English to offer advice on issues related to correctly sizing and installing a generator; then sell, transport, install, commission generator/ATS and offer a reasonable degree of after sales service.

I created a basic website to prove that a market exists for the type of service I wished to offer, and to date, it has received close to 50,000 hits. It has taken a while to establish my business here as I am employed in South East Asia by a company specializing in disaster recovery, but I have replied to numerous requests for advice free of charge and continue to do so.

I have established a good relationship with two suppliers who have expressed a desire to serve the expatriate domestic market in Thailand. The first is Kipor, one of the better Chinese manufacturers; they manufactured Digital Inverter generators under a 10 year license for Honda, then continued to manufacture under their own brand name when the contract was concluded. Kipor generators are sold in the U.S., Europe, Africa, Asia and the Middle East and offer a 'reasonable' level of quality and reliability, with a somewhat limited 'return to distributor' warranty of 6 months. The second supplier is Cummins Power Generation, a leading brand name manufacturer of very good quality standby and prime power generator/ATS systems. Cummins generators/ATS systems include a 2 year warranty from date of installation and they have a nationwide network of support engineers in Thailand to support warranty service calls. To my knowledge I am supplying generators from both manufacturers cheaper than any other supplier in Thailand (distributors included).

So... to Ken's generator/ATS installation; as Ken mentioned, the generator and ATS panel were delivered early morning. I arrived and the ATS panel was mounted close to his distribution board. I had already received a call from Cummins the night before, advising me that the senior engineer scheduled to commission the system was unavailable and they would be sending another commissioning team from Bangkok. They had trouble finding the location and when they arrived it was obvious to me that the lead chap, whilst a nice guy, was an apprentice who did not know how to complete the full commissioning of the generator/ATS system. This didn't sit well with me as I had arranged for the installation and commissioning of this system a month in advance. I have a direct line to Cummins senior management and used it to voice my displeasure. Over the next 18 hours, a Cummins design engineer spoke with the apprentice, the correct control connections were made, and the senior engineer originally slated to install the system, turned up on site to confirm the control wiring was correctly configured. As it is my preference to always switch the neutral connection on ATS installations, a further visit was made on Tuesday to reconfigure one of the sensing wires.

I have installed and commissioned a multitude of generators and ATS panels. All ATS systems operate on the same principle, but there are a number of different ATS controllers on the market and manufacturers design their systems in slightly different ways. Cummins ATS panels are manufactured to operate with their own Power Start Genset Controllers and as such, the manner in which their panels are designed (the arrangement of fuses, relays and control/sensing connections), is proprietary to Cummins. As you can see from the photograph below, there are 20 terminal blocks (marked by the green arrow) to which control wiring connections may be made. The Cummins installation manual is written for Cummins engineers in 'Cummins speak', so in order to ensure that commissioning was carried out correctly first time, I requested a team from Cummins to commission the ATS panel under my watchful eye.

 Cummins ATS.jpg   221.02K   10 downloads  Arrow showing control wiring terminal blocks.jpg   181.99K   11 downloads

I would like to make it clear that in no way am I disappointed with the quality or reliability of the Cummins generator and ATS purchased by Ken (and I believe Ken would agree with this statement), the system works beautifully and should provide Ken with many years of reliable service. As for my interaction with Cummins... all new relationships require a little tweaking and this is no exception; they are keen to work with me and in certain areas they excelled, but their desire not to lose face, by sending an unqualified apprentice rather than postpone for 24 hours led to unnecessary frustration. This will not happen again as I have now confirmed the correct configuration for control wiring between their generator and ATS controllers, and will commission all future ATS installations myself and be training my own like minded apprentices moving forward.

I love working in Thailand and with Thai people, but put a Cummins T Shirt on a Thai guy and you have a Thai guy in a Cummins T shirt... what can I say..? Thai's have a way of doing business which is not commensurate with the kind of service I want to offer, and it is therefore incumbent on me to nurture the kind of attitude and work ethic I would like to see expressed in those around me. This includes the service providers I use and to that end I have already begun the process of politely tearing them a new one, I expect the best from them so I can deliver that to my customers. The important thing is that Ken was able to interact in English with a single person... me, and I in turn dealt with all issues to deliver a working solution to Ken.

I appreciate Ken's feedback and hope that my candid approach reflects the manner in which I want to conduct business and the relationship I would like to develop with potential customers. I started a thread here at Thai Visa a few years ago which my be of interest to anybody who is looking for further information related to sizing, installation and operation of generators and ATS systems, please ignore the Kipor pricing as it is very much out of date, the thread can be found here

Please feel free to contact me directly if you would like additional information.

Genset