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About MikeyIdea

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  1. Thanks Arkady, everything you write makes sense -- Even I overstayed once in the late 80s 555 Confession time: I overstayed one day once in the early 90s :)
  2. Do you know if it is possible to pay the fine and clear the problem at immigration in the government complex and not at Suvarnabhumi when leaving the country?
  3. I now understand it as a Thai citizen with my friends daughters specific problem can't cancel her visa (extension of stay) and can never leave Thailand without paying a 20,000 baht overstay fine first A bit weird that foreigners who become Thai citizens can cancel extensions of stay but Thai's who enter the wrong way cannot
  4. Which section at Immigration did she go to? Something special about the process that made it take 6 hours? 15 year old Thai/British daughter of a friend of mine was denied leaving Thailand on her Thai passport without paying the fine because she originally entered Thailand on her British PP 12 years ago. The normal story: Born abroad, entered on foreign PP, cleared all Thai status but never cancelled extension of stay. I wonder if foreign and Thai PP Thai ID and one legal guardian (western father) would be enough, Thai mother more likely to want to sabotage than help Thanks Michael
  5. Arkady, quick question regarding this I've heard that Thai children cannot be fined for overstay, any children actually. Do you know the age limit for this? I've heard 15 but some say it should be 18/20 Thanks Michael
  6. Artisi: Good of you to keep your temper with some of the westerners posting here. The Thai proverb - People who don't know speak easily comes to mind :) How to help: Well, there are a few legal twists that the rich-in-heart Thai wife can use. I am assuming that the Western man wants a divorce and that the Thai wife can wait almost indefinitely and that she has no "hard" assets (land, condo, car etc. in her name) The western man must use one of the sub-sections of paragraph 1516 as grounds for the divorce, his problem is that there are several points that the wife can use but read it carefully and you'll see that there are actually no clear points that support him. Thai Family courts do not try to keep marriages intact so they will still allow divorce but - He cannot legally get a divorce within 3 years if the wife refuses. Only the latter.. = only she = the deserted party can file for divorce based on desertion - 1516(4) - When he files for divorce: She must come to the pre-meeting, hand over copies of hospital documentation -> she was a good wife and signed -> they demand that she pays, she must state that she told him she is in excessive trouble because he failed to give proper maintenance and support and he deliberately ignored it. SHE is, not her children, they are from another father and irrelevant (1524) - She can easily delay the procedure after the pre-meeting totally 6 months - There is a paragraph that support compensation for her. Actually the paragraph states that she should institute the divorce but it should be enough that she tried but couldn't afford it (1524) - Mutual consent divorces are considered from the date of registration, court orders from the date of order (1532) - Every central Juvenile court has a department called Nittigaan where people can go to get free legal support. I suggest that she reads paragraphs 1516 to 1518, 1523 - 1526, 1528 - 1535 and then go to Nittigaan with a set of questions, and contact lawyer first after that, easier to understand each other The Thai legal system doesn't really facilitate high compensation claims but fair ones relating to real events like husband abandon and wife ends up in excessive trouble and seeks compensation equal to the maintenance for the period he abandoned her are possible. 4 to 8 thousand per month sounds reasonable. Fair is important so he will definitely also have to pay the hospital bill. Delays are nearly always more advantages to one party more than another. It sounds like the wife would benefit from telling the husband that he will have to pay X,000 baht per month maintenance for the period he abandoned her until the divorce is final and it will continue to increase every month until he agrees if he ever wants a divorce. The laws regarding retrieving debts work fine in Thailand but they have the same problem here as everybody else: nothing to retrieve with zero assets and zero registered income. Don't worry about that Michael
  7. Legitimizing a child through the Thai courts

    Think of it, the law is common sense. IMO, Thai juvenile and marriage laws (and in Buddhist countries in general) are much more common sense than Western interpretations of common sense The law is there to protect the child: The mother confirms dad and the child simply confirms if he likes him or not. Because if he doesn't, something whatever that is, require further confirmation is required => go to court. Court does not see its responsibility only as confirm and legitimize. Sure they do legitimize in 100% of the cases but they also confirm if there is more they need to do. The question: Why don't you marry the mother that they always ask is not there to help a Thai ripping of another western man... The other questions they ask, met by the western thinking: Why don't you get on and do your job instead. Sigh, it is all there to determine if they, in the best interest of the child, need to do more Marriage: Marry in Christian countries and traditionally... (Thank God Christians finally realise how ridiculous that was so it is changing now) also assets from before bride and bridegroom even met was shared by default American justice: Divorce and man had to pay alimony to ex wife for the rest of her life Adultery: Mother commit adultery and her moral was so low that the best for the childs future was that father by law got sole custody when divorce was processed - changed now Custody: Mother and father divorce and mother was always highly favoured One Thai Juvenile court judge I talked to laughed openly when we talked about this. I don't know Kenny, I have studied Thai Juvenile law and I find it much more common sense than Western interpretation. Western interpretation is changing toward where Thai (Asian Buddhist) interpretation has been a long time
  8. Legitimizing a child through the Thai courts

    A few things - Birth certificate has no legal meaning in Thailand. Court legitimization Scenario: DNA will only be necessary if mother oppose that you get shared custody, Amphur legitimization Scenario: DNA will only be necessary if mother or child oppose that you get shared custody, foreign citizenships and custody in other countries are irrelevant in your case Land in childs name 1) You can by law buy property directly in the childs name as long as there is no debt on it (cannot give responsibility to child). 2) Trusts are not valid but you don't need one. 3) Land owned by a child cannot be borrowed on legally (the debt cannot be registered at the back of the land title deed). The golden rule is that it's easy to give to a minor but only a court decision can take away again 4) Borrow money with land as security is common also without registering it (the lender demands to keep the original title deed). That is also illegal if land owner is a minor 5) Make sure that both you and mother sign original buy / sell agreement at the amphur 6) Keep the land title deed and the original buy / sell agreement in a safe place where the mother cannot get to it 7) Age of majority is 20 in Thailand. I see no way to write any agreement when child is a minor which locks his assets until after majority (to yes, after..) 8) A few land offices refuse to make the transfer (I have heard Hua Hin and Chiang Mai), the vast majority do though 9) If land office refuses, then mummy and you can go to Juvenile Court and get a court order (by mutual agreement) that a) mother and father agree to give land to the child b) mother shall transfer to child within xx date. I really doubt a land office still would refuse. They know that court order can be enforced 10) If land office still refuses: Back to court and 2 options a) Request asset locked down based on (imminent) risk mummy would mortgage it. Juvenile can order but they will normally not do it only based on history evidence. Need (imminent) risk b) This path is easy: There is a court order (by mutual agreement) that mother shall transfer asset to child by xx date. She couldn't do it so back to Juvenile court to confirm enforcement within 1 year of stated transfer date. Then petition central Juvenile court to enforce -> assets are easy to enforce because there is no doubt it's good for the child. Gromm Bangkapp Kadii - don't know what that translates to, Department of court order enforcement??? They'll get the transfer done unless there is a debt registered at the back of the land title deed Amphur legitimization of an 8 year old 2) Yes, it is that easy. Well, you'll have to pay a hundred baht or so and it will take a few hours Michael
  9. A gift of land from a parent

    Yes, western inherited land stays in the deceased name until sold. What about 30 year lease agreements? A westerner can have a 30 year lease on land and that is registered at the back of the Chanote. So it should be possible for a westerner to temporarily be registered there for that case A lender is also at the back of a chanote temporarily and it's not as owner. I suppose not because we should have heard of it but anyone know for sure? I suppose most land offices would refuse regardless of it actually was legal... :)
  10. Legitimizing a child through the Thai courts

    Difficult. Best I could come up with in Thailand was; Land in my daughters name, cannot be sold until she reaches majority except by court order, not married so my daughter inherits me. Funny story about the provident fund. I wanted my daughter as beneficiary and the company wouldn't do it in the beginning because they knew it would be difficult for the mother to get to use it. Yes, that's exactly what I want and they finally accepted my signature and registered her as beneficiary a couple of meetings later Juvenile court will put my daughters assets under don't know the right name, Childrens welfare department something, and it will be portioned out. Problem is I don't trust them and the mother is the only legal guardian left so she will be the one receiving the payments. How much can she influence Childrens welfare department? I have a will drawn up by a Thai lawyer stating exactly how money should be portioned out until child reaches majority. One part also states that guardian for the assets and guardian of the child cannot be the same person I trust land in my daughters name, I don't trust the will, I don't trust the Childrens welfare department. But what is a safer way In Thailand?
  11. A gift of land from a parent

    No, a child can be of any age in Thailand but there must be no debt, can't give a liability to a child I bought land for my daughter at the land office in Huaykwang Bangkok when she was 2 years old. The Chanote, N.S.4 is in her name only, she couldn't sign of course so they took her thumb prints. All legal guardians must sign the purchase agreement There are circumstances where a farang can own land for a limited period of time. He can legally inherit land, must be sold within one year though. I don't know if laws concerning gifts have any applicable clauses that invalidate a formal written gift because the receiver legally can't own it. If not, then that can be done too and must be sold within one year -- Sorry I meant to say house and or land at the land office I suppose that is a clarification regarding that land and house actually doesn't have to have the same owner at all, it normally has but that is it. My ex wife leased land in Huaykwang 1992 but bought the house. I paid for it all so she left it to me when she divorced and I stayed there, got a second wife and we had a daughter. Lease ran out and I was asked if we wanted to buy the land. Sure I did so I paid and the land was transferred to my daughters name. Buy sell agreement for the land clearly state land only. Owner of the house (Gammasitt baan) at the Amphur clearly state my ex wife as owner But now a question I do not know the answer to: If a Thai needs to borrow money and he uses his land as security, then it is registered at the back of the Chanote. Seller / lendee is to the left and buyer / lender is to the right. The owner who borrow money is moved from the right to the left and the lender is moved in to the right. If money is not paid back within stipulated time, then lender simply becomes the owner. Can a Thai borrow money from a farang and it's registered at the back of the Chanote? Anyone knows? Good sample below Column 1 Date, Column 2, Reason for transfer, Column 3 Seller, Column 4 buyer The Chanote below starts with give, then owner borrow, then owner clear debt, then owner borrow, then LENDER sells :) Ah, the guy who borrowed money the last time couldn't pay...
  12. And one I know is even the best mother I have ever known, not the mother of my daughter unfortunately
  13. Yes, she can divorce you without you in Thailand but 1) It will have to be in court 2) Divorce can only be granted citing legally allowed reasons, the normal one is abandonment more than 3 years, another one is desertion more than one year but that's hardly going to work in your case 3) Court must specify custody => You are taking a big risk There is no reason why court shouldn't give the mother sole custody if she says that the child is in England and you refuse to bring him here. That would be the standard response Second option is you coming to Thailand to sign the divorce. Note that you two must still cite one of the legal reasons or it will be refused. Custody must still be specified and both court and amphur will inform the mother of the consequences of sole custody and ask if that is really what she wants. Again: => You are taking a big risk You should clear this in England. There is a Thai saying that matches this scenario perfectly It's difficult to lose a little but easy to lose a lot. It is likely to be much cheaper in England in the long run Section 1516. Grounds of action for divorce are as follows: (1) the husband has given maintenance to or honored such other woman as his wife, or the wife has committed adultery, the other spouse may enter a claim for divorce; (2) one spouse is guilty of misconduct, notwithstanding whether such misconduct is a criminal offence or not, if it causes the other: (a) to be seriously ashamed; (b) to be insulted of hated or account of continuance of being husband or wife of the spouse having committed the misconduct; or (c) to sustain excessive injury or trouble where the condition, position and cohabitation as husband and wife are taken into consideration; the latter may enter a claim for divorce; (3) one spouse has caused serious harm or torture to the body or mind of the other, or has seriously insulted the other or his or her ascendants, the latter may enter a claim for divorce; (4) one spouse has deserted the other for more than one year, the latter may enter a claim for divorce; (4/1) one spouse had been sentenced by a final judgment of the Court and has been imprisoned for more than one year in the offence committed without any participation, consent or in the knowledge of the other, and the cohabitation as husband and wife will cause the other party sustain excessive injury or trouble, the latter may enter a claim for divorce; (4/2) The husband and wife voluntarily live separately because of being unable to cohabit peacefully for more than three years, or live separately for more than three years by the order of the Court, either spouse may enter a claim for divorce; (5) one spouse has been adjudged to have disappeared, or as left his or her domicile or residence for more than three years and being uncertain whether he or she is living or dead; (6) one spouse has failed to give proper maintenance and support to the other, or committed acts seriously adverse to the relationship of husband and wife to such an extent that the other has been in excessive trouble where the condition, position and cohabitation as husband and wife are taking into consideration, the latter may enter a claim for divorce; (7) one spouse has been an insane person for more than three years continuously and such insanity is hardly curable so that the continuance of marriage cannot be expected, the other may enter a claim for divorce; (8) one spouse has broken a bond of good behavior executed by him or her, the other spouse may enter a claim for divorce; (9) one spouse is suffering from a communicable and dangerous disease which is incurable and may cause injury to the other, the latter may file a claim for divorce; (10) one spouse has a physical disadvantage so as to be permanently unable to cohabit as husband and wife, the other may enter a claim for divorce.
  14. Agree, some stories don't end. Carrying a copy of a Thai court order showing sole custody to the farang parent will ensure the support of authorities if the Thai parent commits criminal offences. A UK court order, translated or not, is best used as toilet paper of course
  15. A UK court will follow a pre-dated Thai Family and Juvenile court order, a Thai court will do the same The UK court order must be registered in Thailand before it is valid here = must go through the court process here too = common sense A Thai court and Thai police will of course follow Thai law = the mother has shared custody and the right to veto the child leaving Thailand until a Thai court orders according to the pre-dated UK court order. Also common sense -- think hard you will probably lose him,be careful the justice system here is not as Europe................. True, unlike Europe, there is no bias against fathers or foreigners here. Thai courts take custody decisions in the best interest of the child, unlike European courts where the mother by Christian belief is favoured - This does not have to mean that the child can leave Thailand Just follow the process and you are safe, don't and you shouldn't be safe