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Stop fighting over Brexit and get real, Jim O'Neill tells UK

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1 minute ago, lamecn said:

Correct! He never said it in public, he wrote it in a letter!

Again no evidence for that either just a facsimile from a book which is unidentified. 

 

The current belief is derived from a popular quote attributed to Jean Monnet, one of the founding fathers of the European Union, in which Monnet is claimed to have written the following in a letter to a friend on 30th April, 1952:

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

http://www.rense.com/general87/nationstates.htm

For those not familiar, Rense is a famous ‘conspiracy theory’ site run by Jeff Rense: More a clearing house than source. This is not case closed on discrediting as conspiracy theories do sometimes turn out to be conspiracy fact.

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One look at the negotiating team will tell you how clueless they are.

Still expecting to get the good bits and discard the bad ones.

27 v 1 should give us a clue as to the eventual calamitous conclusion.

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6 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Again no evidence for that either just a facsimile from a book which is unidentified. 

 

The current belief is derived from a popular quote attributed to Jean Monnet, one of the founding fathers of the European Union, in which Monnet is claimed to have written the following in a letter to a friend on 30th April, 1952:

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

http://www.rense.com/general87/nationstates.htm

For those not familiar, Rense is a famous ‘conspiracy theory’ site run by Jeff Rense: More a clearing house than source. This is not case closed on discrediting as conspiracy theories do sometimes turn out to be conspiracy fact.

Try Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Treaty_establishing_a_Constitution_for_Europe

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29 minutes ago, lamecn said:

lamecn, you have stated your case very clearly, with lots of evidence to back-up your assertions. Anybody with an open mind can see you are absolutely correct, but some people - well you could show them a video of Jean Monnet, or even have Jean Monnet tell them to their face that he did indeed say/write those exact words, and you know it, they will still carry on with this but..but..well it could...no, but...shape-shifting lizards....

 

You won this debate just ignore the trolls.

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2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Those nasty europeans are going to make it as difficult and expensive as they can for U.K. to get out, mainly to try and scare any other country from trying to do the same. A bad idea from the start in my opinion.

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"Those nasty Europeans" :cheesy::cheesy:

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49 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

lamecn, you have stated your case very clearly, with lots of evidence to back-up your assertions. Anybody with an open mind can see you are absolutely correct, but some people - well you could show them a video of Jean Monnet, or even have Jean Monnet tell them to their face that he did indeed say/write those exact words, and you know it, they will still carry on with this but..but..well it could...no, but...shape-shifting lizards....

 

You won this debate just ignore the trolls.

But both you and lamecn have failed to show a single piece of evidence that confirms that Monnet made this statement. You have pointed to a blog that quickly descends into claims about zionism, then you cite a discussion page from Wikipedia - not a Wikipedia article itself, but a forum for those inclined to discuss the article. Even one of the proponents of your view admits, "i know ppl will not accept that quote from Jean Monnet, even if is faulse quote that is what they are doing."

 

So even those who repeat the statement are uncertain as to whether it is truthful...

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1 hour ago, lamecn said:

Correct! He never said it in public, he wrote it in a letter!

It was a French letter.

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2 hours ago, lamecn said:

Correct! He never said it in public, he wrote it in a letter!

Yet, Vaclav Klaus claims that it came from a speech 30th April 1952 to UN

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1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

Yet, Vaclav Klaus claims that it came from a speech 30th April 1952 to UN

Monnet would have left behind a substantial body of correspondence available to academia and for those who have written about him since again along with recorded conversations. If it was in a speech to the UN then it would have been very easy to reproduce verbatim. 

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35 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Monnet would have left behind a substantial body of correspondence available to academia and for those who have written about him since again along with recorded conversations. If it was in a speech to the UN then it would have been very easy to reproduce verbatim. 

Monnet was not at the UN on the said day , but addressing the US National Press Club about the Plevan plan. Monnet speech is recorded in the archives and does not mention the attributed qoute. It is clearly a fake 

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5 hours ago, meinphuket said:

Yes, if it were only that simple...take responsibility for your commitments, or else face the collective economic and immigration wrath of the EU. Forget not that the UK is based on islands, easy to embargo. British police kicked out of Le Havre will open the immigration floodgates.High tariffs, tolls, visa requirements will do the job. Frankfurt as the new London. Enjoy !

 

Our resident EU "nationalist".

 

All those illegal immigrants gonna swim to the British Isles once you've closed the border are they?

 

Frankfurt will never be the new London. Watch it collapse as the myth about German efficiency is exposed. And the jealous back biting from Paris, Dublin and others starts.

 

You are a good example of the reason many see the EU as being full of bigoted extortionists who want a spiteful revenge for their perceived previous historical failures.

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4 hours ago, lamecn said:

 

1 hour ago, pitrevie said:

Monnet would have left behind a substantial body of correspondence available to academia and for those who have written about him since again along with recorded conversations. If it was in a speech to the UN then it would have been very easy to reproduce verbatim. 

It may well be, but there is other  evidence that the UK government knew v well back in '75 that the EU was heading towards uniting countries into 'one state' (as per the Monnet letter) - but chose to not inform the electorate.

 

Edit - getting back on topic, O'Neill has his own self-serving POV, which is why there's no possibility of agreement on this issue. There's no way to forecast the future.

Edited by dick dasterdly
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8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

It may well be, but there is other  evidence that the UK government knew v well back in '75 that the EU was heading towards uniting countries into 'one state' (as per the Monnet letter) - but chose to not inform the electorate.

And you evidence is? So far the Monnet letter appears to be a work of fiction propagated by a right wing conspiracy site and in fact was first posted here copied from David Icke and you cannot get any more bizarre than that.

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32 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Monnet was not at the UN on the said day , but addressing the US National Press Club about the Plevan plan. Monnet speech is recorded in the archives and does not mention the attributed qoute. It is clearly a fake 

Its matters not a jot once a conspiracy theory takes hold. When people start posting stuff from David Icke, Alex Jones etc nothing will change their minds.

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