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robblok

Baitcasting vs Spinning

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For the big catfish (pla bug) i feel bait-casting is superior as you have far more drag and a far smoother drag. However bait-casting reels (good ones) can easily run up to 14.000-20.000 bt while spinning reels don't get that high.

 

I would advise a baitrunner spinning reel here something like Shimano baitrunner 12.000D or if you want to go more expensive the Shimano Thunnus CI4 12000. 

 

For bait-casting id say ,accurate bx 400 or bx 500 or AvetJX6/3 MC Raptor. 

 

It takes a lot more practice to cast those bait-caster reels spinning is always the easier less hassle free option but once you master a good bait-caster you never want spinning again (not for the casting part but once you hooked a big pla bug (Mekong Catfish)

 

Both the accurate and the Avet MC (magic cast) have some sort of cast control where the Avet is easiest to learn. The accurate might get further.. i recently got the Avet MC so I still not mastered it 100% so i can't give a definite answer.

 

I know that with the Accurate it took me more then a few days to cast without birds nest and then a while to really maximise my cast. I still have exploding lam / bread balls at times (as most of us) so I am far from perfect.

 

The reels i described here are overkill for pla sawai (striped catfish) but if you fish at a lake that has more then a few big pla bugs this would be the reels to use.

 

When I came here i was all about spinning reels, now not anymore.

 

 

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My preference too for baitcasters but when the wind is up as in most afternoons a spinning reel casts without backlash issues. I often switch to spinning reels when I have to cast into the wind.

They both have specific duties for me and I almost always have one of each every outing.

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13 hours ago, robblok said:

I know that with the Accurate it took me more then a few days to cast without birds nest and then a while to really maximise my cast. I still have exploding lam / bread balls at times (as most of us) so I am far from perfect.

 

And there is is.  If you only fish a few days a year, you can spend 2-3 seasons untangling backlashes on 2 out of every 3 casts before you get adequate.  Then another 2-3 seasons getting to where you can cast like you can today with a spinning reel.  Not hard to see why lots of guys stick with their spinning reels.   I grew up on coffee grinders, then picked up baitcasters when I moved to Texas- just to keep from being ridiculed as a Yankee transplant.  But then even Texans have gone to spinning reels once the tournament pro's started using them for finesse fishing. 

 

I challenge anyone to cast a 1/16 ounce jig with a baitcaster, or into the wind like jack2964 mentioned.  And then, finding a good sized lefty baitcaster can be a problem.  The small ones, sure.  But if you want a big lefty reel so you're holding the rod in your strong hand, your choices will be very limited with baitcasters.  With today's spinning reels, just flip the handle around.  Which is also handy if you're outfitting visitors who may prefer the opposite side to your favorite.

 

I can cast either way, and usually bring both baitcasters and spinning reels to BSR.  Frankly, I don't prefer either one over the other for lobbing a pound of lam and cranking in the big ones.  I've broken too many graphite rods trying to rush the fish by setting the drag heavy.  In fact, once I run out of graphite rods to break, all my new BSR rods will be glass.

 

 

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10 hours ago, impulse said:

 

And there is is.  If you only fish a few days a year, you can spend 2-3 seasons untangling backlashes on 2 out of every 3 casts before you get adequate.  Then another 2-3 seasons getting to where you can cast like you can today with a spinning reel.  Not hard to see why lots of guys stick with their spinning reels.   I grew up on coffee grinders, then picked up baitcasters when I moved to Texas- just to keep from being ridiculed as a Yankee transplant.  But then even Texans have gone to spinning reels once the tournament pro's started using them for finesse fishing. 

 

I challenge anyone to cast a 1/16 ounce jig with a baitcaster, or into the wind like jack2964 mentioned.  And then, finding a good sized lefty baitcaster can be a problem.  The small ones, sure.  But if you want a big lefty reel so you're holding the rod in your strong hand, your choices will be very limited with baitcasters.  With today's spinning reels, just flip the handle around.  Which is also handy if you're outfitting visitors who may prefer the opposite side to your favorite.

 

I can cast either way, and usually bring both baitcasters and spinning reels to BSR.  Frankly, I don't prefer either one over the other for lobbing a pound of lam and cranking in the big ones.  I've broken too many graphite rods trying to rush the fish by setting the drag heavy.  In fact, once I run out of graphite rods to break, all my new BSR rods will be glass.

 

 

Like you I don't try to bully the fish in with a heavy drag, but at times a heavy drag is good to keep control and not tangle too many people up. The AVET MC really can help people to cast without backlashes straight from the beginning. But its not just how heavy you can set the drag.. its also that the drags on (good) bait-casters are far more durable and smooth. That is normal as the good baitcasters are far more expensive then the spinning reels i mentioned.  A shimano stella would have been good but they don't have baitrunners. What i hate about spinning is that you never can visually see how tight your drag is. 

 

On a baitcaster you can set the drag to a max and then by looking at how much you have pushed the lever up you always know how much drag your using. That is real hard to do with spinning because after turning you never know if you turned whole.. half or what the base position was.

 

I really prefer baitcasting to play the fish and spinning for the casting (in general). 

 

Just out of curiosity im almost sure we met at BSR once.  But won't bet my life on it.  I am probably going to BSR 4 februari as its a Sunday. I won't try going there on a weekday as traffic will be real bad. The GF wants to try BSR so far has only done bung pla bug.

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36 minutes ago, robblok said:

Like you I don't try to bully the fish in with a heavy drag, but at times a heavy drag is good to keep control and not tangle too many people up. The AVET MC really can help people to cast without backlashes straight from the beginning. But its not just how heavy you can set the drag.. its also that the drags on (good) bait-casters are far more durable and smooth. That is normal as the good baitcasters are far more expensive then the spinning reels i mentioned.  A shimano stella would have been good but they don't have baitrunners. What i hate about spinning is that you never can visually see how tight your drag is. 

 

On a baitcaster you can set the drag to a max and then by looking at how much you have pushed the lever up you always know how much drag your using. That is real hard to do with spinning because after turning you never know if you turned whole.. half or what the base position was.

 

I really prefer baitcasting to play the fish and spinning for the casting (in general). 

 

Just out of curiosity im almost sure we met at BSR once.  But won't bet my life on it.  I am probably going to BSR 4 februari as its a Sunday. I won't try going there on a weekday as traffic will be real bad. The GF wants to try BSR so far has only done bung pla bug.

 

That's the downside to fishing in a crowd- the etiquette that has us tighten the drag and horse the fish to quickly clear the deck for others to continue fishing.  Otherwise, I love to play the fish for awhile.  But the guides frown on that even more than most of the guys fishing.

 

Most of my baitcasters are Shimano- Catala's and Calcutta's in the 301 and 401 sizes (the -01 means lefty).  I can fish BSR with impunity because they hold enough line that a fish can't spool me in the pond there- though they can make me nervous.  (Edit:  they can spool me if I'm fishing from either end, but I usually end up in the middle- and walk when I have to)  But they don't have lever drags and since I have over a dozen of those (long China story), I won't spring the $250+ for a lefty with a lever drag.  I've been eyeing some of the newer "jigging reels", but they don't really have the line capacity unless it's braid.  I'm slowly converting from mono to braid.  Old habits die hard.

 

For spinning reels, I love the rear drag models where I can mess with the drag even when the spool's spinning 100 miles an hour.  As a kid, I learned to fight a fish with the drag clamped down completely and the anti reverse off.   When the fish ran, I back-reeled like crazy.  The purpose was to maintain absolute control in swims where fish could dive into stumps.   That was for fishing 4# line, though.  Still, back reeling comes in very handy when I find the drag is too tight- even with 30-40# line I use at BSR (going to 65-80# on braid).  All of my baitcasters are full time anti-reverse so back reeling isn't possible.  Advantage, spinning reels.

 

Or I can thumb the spool if the drag's too loose.  Never had a problem thumbing spinning reels in that regard, but I have burned off a lot of skin by thumbing my baitcasters.  Still, I like both of them and generally choose spinning for lighter fishing, especially with light baits.  Baitcasting gets the nod for brute power, though.

 

I've put Feb 4 on my calendar and if I'm in country, I'll contact you and maybe we can meet up.

 

Edited by impulse

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7 hours ago, impulse said:

 

That's the downside to fishing in a crowd- the etiquette that has us tighten the drag and horse the fish to quickly clear the deck for others to continue fishing.  Otherwise, I love to play the fish for awhile.  But the guides frown on that even more than most of the guys fishing.

 

Most of my baitcasters are Shimano- Catala's and Calcutta's in the 301 and 401 sizes (the -01 means lefty).  I can fish BSR with impunity because they hold enough line that a fish can't spool me in the pond there- though they can make me nervous.  (Edit:  they can spool me if I'm fishing from either end, but I usually end up in the middle- and walk when I have to)  But they don't have lever drags and since I have over a dozen of those (long China story), I won't spring the $250+ for a lefty with a lever drag.  I've been eyeing some of the newer "jigging reels", but they don't really have the line capacity unless it's braid.  I'm slowly converting from mono to braid.  Old habits die hard.

 

For spinning reels, I love the rear drag models where I can mess with the drag even when the spool's spinning 100 miles an hour.  As a kid, I learned to fight a fish with the drag clamped down completely and the anti reverse off.   When the fish ran, I back-reeled like crazy.  The purpose was to maintain absolute control in swims where fish could dive into stumps.   That was for fishing 4# line, though.  Still, back reeling comes in very handy when I find the drag is too tight- even with 30-40# line I use at BSR (going to 65-80# on braid).  All of my baitcasters are full time anti-reverse so back reeling isn't possible.  Advantage, spinning reels.

 

Or I can thumb the spool if the drag's too loose.  Never had a problem thumbing spinning reels in that regard, but I have burned off a lot of skin by thumbing my baitcasters.  Still, I like both of them and generally choose spinning for lighter fishing, especially with light baits.  Baitcasting gets the nod for brute power, though.

 

I've put Feb 4 on my calendar and if I'm in country, I'll contact you and maybe we can meet up.

 

Would be nice to share thoughts about fishing if your free the 4th. I would certainly like it. 

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I would not fish with anything below 40 pounds (nylon) at BSR. I actually got a really good 50# on one of my accurate reels. The fish certainly can't spool that one its an accurate BX500. Personally I think for BSR nylon is king (unless there is no wind). For BSR you always fish with a float and lam so your always at the mercy of wind.. even more so if you use braid. I got sinking braids but I doubt the sink enough to counter that disadvantage (might try it next time)

 

The only bad thing about baitcasting is you can't have spare spools. If you got a good spinning reel you can buy 2 or more spools so you can have braid and nylon and only have to pay once for a reel. That is one of the few advantages of spinning reels.

 

 

 

 

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Good discussion guys.

 

I simply can't make my mind up. I use a baitcaster and definitely prefer it to a spinning reel when playing a big (BSR size) fish. But even after using one for 30 years still get a birds nest a couple of times each outing, and cannot get anywhere near my kids casts with their bait runners.

 

Sometimes we switch gear, and I'm still amazed how much easier it is to cast with one of those.

 

Impulse, if you keep breaking rods why don't you try a FC Monsters? I bough one after seeing a demo at the fishing tackle show at Bitec a few years back, and its fantastic. At the demo they had a ring attached to the floor of the stand and invited people to try and break one of their rods which had the line attached to the ring. Not a chance. I watched about 5 guys bend the rod nearly double, and they all gave out before the rod did. About 4500 Baht back then, so not cheap though. 

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1 hour ago, stbkk said:

Good discussion guys.

 

I simply can't make my mind up. I use a baitcaster and definitely prefer it to a spinning reel when playing a big (BSR size) fish. But even after using one for 30 years still get a birds nest a couple of times each outing, and cannot get anywhere near my kids casts with their bait runners.

 

Sometimes we switch gear, and I'm still amazed how much easier it is to cast with one of those.

 

Impulse, if you keep breaking rods why don't you try a FC Monsters? I bough one after seeing a demo at the fishing tackle show at Bitec a few years back, and its fantastic. At the demo they had a ring attached to the floor of the stand and invited people to try and break one of their rods which had the line attached to the ring. Not a chance. I watched about 5 guys bend the rod nearly double, and they all gave out before the rod did. About 4500 Baht back then, so not cheap though. 

Now the newest of the FC monsters is around 7000 bt.

 

As for birds nest with the Avet magic cast system they are gone for good, the accurate system is real good too. But with both if you set them up tight you lose a bit of distance. 

 

I only got upper class rods like the FC monster and Jigging master never seen those break. I had some cheaper rods break but i believe in quality and paying a price for good quality is ok. It will last for many years. 

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Just a side not has anyone ever looked at the reels of the more fanatical Thai fishermen. A lot of accurate reels (close to 20k each). Seems Thais even the poorer ones seem to spend a lot on good quality reels. 

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On 1/22/2018 at 7:49 AM, stbkk said:

Impulse, if you keep breaking rods why don't you try a FC Monsters? I bough one after seeing a demo at the fishing tackle show at Bitec a few years back, and its fantastic. At the demo they had a ring attached to the floor of the stand and invited people to try and break one of their rods which had the line attached to the ring. Not a chance. I watched about 5 guys bend the rod nearly double, and they all gave out before the rod did. About 4500 Baht back then, so not cheap though. 

 

When you see one demonstrated at a trade show, did you ever wonder how many they broke finding the one that won't break?

 

I imported fishing rods from China to the USA, and I've found that one in 20 of the graphite rods will break the first time they're loaded up.  And the higher modulus rods with thin walls will break the first time they're loaded up after they've been dinged in a car door or banged against a sharp corner, even if you can't see the damage.  Even having a a few high modulus graphite rods bouncing against each other in a boat's rod holders can nick them enough to create a stress riser and make them break the next time they're loaded.  That's why thick wall fiberglass rods with low modulus (and lightly stressed) fibers are great for abusive fishing conditions where sensitivity and lightness don't count.

 

In an ideal world, they'd test 100% of the rods before they ship, but economics makes it more profitable to ship them all and do a warranty replacement of the 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 that will come back during the warranty period.  And a lot of defective rods will sit in a closet throughout the warranty, and other guys who do break their rods won't bother with the warranty process.  It's a numbers game.  (Although a major US brand once made a big mistake by offering a no-questions-asked, money back 12 month warranty on even their low end rods, when a high percentage of their rods were coming back mysteriously broken after the season ended, school was starting, and the kids needed new shoes)

 

I also get a kick out of the $500 fly rods where the warranty states that they'll repair or replace the rod for $25-50 any time during the life of the rod.  Because I can generally get beautiful fly rods made for $15-30- $50 max, and would happily replace a section for $25-50.  Still, paying $25-50 for a repair isn't as catastrophic for the angler as paying $500 for a replacement

 

The only way I'd recommend paying 4500-7000 baht for a rod is if it came with a lifetime warranty, which I characterize as a lifetime insurance policy, with the premiums being the difference between the cost of a 1500 baht rod and whatever you'd have to pay for a rod guaranteed not to break.  (Such a rod would cost me $20-30 from the factory, BTW)  That doesn't really guarantee that the rod won't break.  Just that you'll get a replacement if it does.  And if I can sell a rod for 3-5 times as much by guaranteeing it against breakage, that's a no-brainer for me.  It's all in the numbers.

 

Edit:  And I'd be the first to admit that my personal rods get handled pretty roughly, and I promise most rods get abused on the way from the factory to the purchaser.  Having thousands of rods scattered between China, Thailand and the USA, mine just don't get the same TLC they did before I started importing them direct from the factories.  (Or maybe I'm just more aware of how easy it is to damage a high modulus rod than I was back then)

 

 

Edited by impulse

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@impulse

 

I used to break rods like you too.. it stopped when i changed to those more expensive rods. I agree with what your saying but the more expensive rods in my book get checked more before being released to the public.

 

I can vouch for 3 king rods and the fc monster rod. I hope we meet up it would be nice to talk a bit and fish. I am really in need of a break.. been working non stop since the 1st (weekends included and many evenings). But it looks like I will be finishing the VAT in time for my clients. 

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Hi Impulse,

 

Interesting technical knowledge, and good to know. From what you said you seem to have been/are in the tackle business, and obviously know what you re talking about.

 

I must say I've never broken a rod ever (not too hard to achieve living in England for most of my life - not many big fish there!), and during my Bungsamran sessions the FC monsters rod has been fine so far, touch wood. I was a little dubious about paying that amount of money for one, but the tackle show demo 'hooked' me. Like you say though, I'll be a bit more thoughtful in future though.

 

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1 hour ago, stbkk said:

Hi Impulse,

 

Interesting technical knowledge, and good to know. From what you said you seem to have been/are in the tackle business, and obviously know what you re talking about.

 

I must say I've never broken a rod ever (not too hard to achieve living in England for most of my life - not many big fish there!), and during my Bungsamran sessions the FC monsters rod has been fine so far, touch wood. I was a little dubious about paying that amount of money for one, but the tackle show demo 'hooked' me. Like you say though, I'll be a bit more thoughtful in future though.

 

Being thoughtful of your equipment is my desired outcome here...  I suspect robblok treats his expensive rods a lot better.  I know that I treat my Sage and Loomis $500-700 fly rods better than I treat the ones I have made for me at $15-30 (by the hundreds to get that price). 

 

It's not the fish that break the rod, it's handling damage that weakens it so it breaks when you load it up, either casting, or fighting a fish.  The higher the modulus, the thinner the wall, and the easier it is to nick it.   The other thing that will kill a graphite rod is to load it axially.  That means pushing down on the top, as would happen if you fought a fish with the rod pointed away from the water.  Like you see little kids doing when they first start out and hook a good fish.  Or if you walk into a wall with your rod tips in front of you.

 

I have to admit that my rods get abused a lot, moving between China, Texas, Wyoming and BKK.  Then they get switched between rod socks and rod tubes because I travel lighter when taking a taxi than I do driving my pickup.  And don't even get me started on flying with them...  All that traveling and bouncing around in vehicles takes its toll- a lot more than keeping them locked up in a proper case in a closet between trips, and lovingly looking after them on the road.

 

Strangely, I like the action on some of my own fly rods better than I like the Sage and Loomis.  In fact, I had a shop in China make an exact knockoff of one of the $600 rods (I won't mention which), and I rejected the sample because the 4 piece rod flexed more between the ferrules, leaving flat spots at the ferrules.  Boy, was I embarrassed when the shop engineer showed me that's exactly what my $600 sample did, too.  That one opened my eyes.

 

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BANGKOK 28 May 2018 12:09
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